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Richard Lee Byers
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
1814 Posts |
 Posted - 26 Aug 2007 : 04:44:37
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| Ozzalum: My advice is to read the Mirrorstone writer's guidelines on the Wizards site if there are any. Then send a query letter to the editor of the Mirrorstone line. Ask if he or she is willing to look at a submission from you, and if so, what form it should take (complete manuscript, outline and sample chapters, or what.) |
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Ozzalum
Learned Scribe
USA
277 Posts |
Posted - 26 Aug 2007 : 14:32:43
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Thanks Richard. I would have included a link to their guidelines but this whole posting to internet forums is still new to me. It does appear from a submission standpoint that they are looking for complete manuscripts. They read the first three chapters and get back to you.
I guess I was wondering if anyone had general advice for writing to a younger audience. I remember reading somewhere, probably from Ed or THO, that FR books were at one point written with teen males as the target. I can certainly see that, (elven lasses and whatnot) but after I read the WotSQ novels and the one scene of rather horrendous torture contained therein, I thought maybe the policy had changed.
Aside from less graphic violence and "fading to black" before love scenes, is there much of a difference between teen and adult fiction? It's been a little while since I was a teen myself, but not so long that I have my own teens to study, so I feel a little out of touch with the young folk. |
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Richard Lee Byers
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
1814 Posts |
Posted - 27 Aug 2007 : 01:47:50
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As you note yourself, YA fiction tends to place limits on how graphic and disturbing you can be, although these days, that can vary greatly from line to line and publisher to publisher. Still, I suspect it's a safe bet that you can't go too crazy in a Mirrorstone novel. Heck, you can't go totally crazy in a regular Forgotten Realms novel (Otherwise, I'm sure WotC would have snapped up my proposals for Threeway in Thay and The Oral Orc.)
Beyond that, I don't know of anything specific to tell you except that a YA novel must star teenage protagonists and address YA themes. A story with an adult protagonist simply won't fly. Neither will a novel with a teenage hero who just goes and does standard fantasy-hero stuff like killing a dragon or whatever. He must also grapple with coming-of-age problems associated with being a teen. |
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Ozzalum
Learned Scribe
USA
277 Posts |
Posted - 27 Aug 2007 : 03:26:03
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Good stuff, Richard. I'll have to be sure to thank the WotC editorial staff for keeping "The Oral Orc" off store shelves!
Thus far I'm meeting the two criteria you've set, young protagonist and a coming of age story. I guess it's a fine balance of not making the protagonist too whiny, (as adults tend to view teens) or too capable, (or else he's already come of age and what's the point.)
Thanks again. I really appreciate the feedback. |
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore
5056 Posts |
Posted - 27 Aug 2007 : 16:48:32
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Ed Greenwood definitely created the Uskevren family (not Cale), and wrote a short "bible" for the Sembian series, with a few paragraphs of detail for each character. However, Richard is quite correct to say that the Shamur character we know from published Realms fiction is "his" (developed and brought to life by him).
However, as one of Ed's original players, I can say that Ed definitely created the noble family and brought to life both Shamur and Thamalon; they appeared onstage as NPCs in Realmsplay in the early 1980s, long before anyone had thought of the Sembian series. There are even two short stories by Ed involving Shamur (who had an adventuring career before her marriage, remember), that I've read and that Ed quietly put away in a drawer forever when the Sembian project was being developed, so as NOT to "tie the hands" of whichever writer "drew" Shamur, so the character could become his or her own.
So, you see, Ed clearly created the character, who had a fictional and in-game life before the published TSR/WotC Realms version. Yet Richard is also quite right in seeing the Shamur we now know as his work.
(I believe it was Phil Athans (picking up on Ed's FR ADVENTURES Selgaunt city writeup mentions) who wanted Shamur involved in the Sembia series.)
This is one of the sometimes tricky properties of a shared world setting, that can get VERY tricky if the creatives involved have big egos or get possessive or just fail to communicate and end up trying to use the same character at the same time (the most famous example: Princess Alusair). The "rules of the game" are, of course, that Wizards can use any character as they see fit, handing it to any creative. In practice, things work best if, say, Elaine is involved or at least notified when someone else uses Elaith (though he, too, was one of Ed's well-developed, frequently-used NPCs before the Realms was ever published).
Which is a very long way of saying:
Ed created Shamur. Richard breathed new life into Shamur and crafted the Shamur all scribes here EXCEPT Ed's former players "know." Ed set aside his version so whoever developed Shamur could make their character "theirs" (and the fascinating thing in this case is that Ed's old short stories could still "work" today; the young, adventuring Shamur could and would have changed as a person to become the Shamur of the Sembia novels.
love to all,
THO |
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Skeptic
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1273 Posts |
Posted - 27 Aug 2007 : 17:03:28
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quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One
(the most famous example: Princess Alusair)
Can someone tell me what happened about her that make her a famous example of this problem ? |
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Richard Lee Byers
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
1814 Posts |
Posted - 27 Aug 2007 : 18:25:37
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Hooded One: That's very interesting. Until now, nobody ever told me that Ed had done that much with the character of Shamur, so I was telling the truth as best I understood it.
It was extremely gracious of Ed to decide that the writer who wound up working with Shamur in the Sembia series should have all the creative freedom possible, and I really appreciate it. |
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Skeptic
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1273 Posts |
Posted - 27 Aug 2007 : 19:55:01
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quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lee Byers
Hooded One: That's very interesting. Until now, nobody ever told me that Ed had done that much with the character of Shamur, so I was telling the truth as best I understood it.
It was extremely gracious of Ed to decide that the writer who wound up working with Shamur in the Sembia series should have all the creative freedom possible, and I really appreciate it.
So Ed and Richard should re-visit this old short story together and get it published on WoTC website  |
Edited by - Skeptic on 27 Aug 2007 19:55:31 |
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore
5056 Posts |
Posted - 07 Sep 2007 : 03:30:05
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I'll pass that on to Ed. I know he regards your Realms novels highly, BTW, because I have several times seen some of them on his bedside "re-read for pleasure" pile, when visiting his lair.
Skeptic, that's a fun idea. First, however, Ed has to have TIME enough to hunt for and resurrect those two old stories (one might not even exist as a computer file, but typed only, dating as it does from the dear old pre-computer days). Then we have to find out if Wizards is interested (some gamers are under the impression that Realms writers can freely choose who they'll write a novel about or what they'll put on the website, but it's not really up to them, remember; "olden-time" Realms stories might not be wanted).
And Alusair Nacacia ended up with no less than THREE distinct fates in early printed Realmslore, thanks to a licensed SSI game, a published TSR adventure module, and a published TSR novel all doing different things with her (so she's the classic example of inconsistencies creeping in if the published Realms isn't closely coordinated).
love,
THO |
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Ozzalum
Learned Scribe
USA
277 Posts |
Posted - 12 Dec 2007 : 21:19:00
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deleted - The answer to my question appeared earlier in the thread.
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Edited by - Ozzalum on 13 Dec 2007 23:41:55 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 12 Dec 2007 : 21:56:57
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| One thought: most published authors are quite wary of reading other people's unpublished work. It's very, very easy to get sued for plagiarism, and the best defense is to never have read the material in question. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
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Richard Lee Byers
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
1814 Posts |
Posted - 24 Dec 2007 : 05:47:27
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| Happy Holidays to everyone here at Candlekeep! |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 24 Dec 2007 : 14:02:15
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Thanks, same to you!  |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Zanan
Senior Scribe
Germany
942 Posts |
Posted - 28 Dec 2007 : 21:52:43
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| Well, while I am late for x-mas, let me wish everyone a Happy New Year! Keep the good lines flowing! |
Cave quid dicis, quando et cui!
Gæð a wyrd swa hio scel!
In memory of Alura Durshavin.
Visit my "Homepage" to find A Guide to the Drow NPCs of Faerûn, Drow and non-Drow PrC and much more. |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jan 2008 : 20:05:37
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A General Message I Wanted to Convey
It occurs to me that while I'm not a big fan of the changes that we know are coming from the 4th edition incarnation of the Realms, that it could be easily extrapolated that my enthusiasm for some of the novel series, especially those that touch on the events that are related to the changes in the Realm, might have abated.
I'd just like to say that I'm actually still very much looking forward to reading Paul Kemp, Richard Lee Byers, Thomas Reid, and other author's books, even if those books move into a different time frame. These are proven authors and ones that have a feel for the Realms, and I'm going to keep reading them as long as I enjoy them, even if my Realms grow more and more distant from the one portrayed in the novels.
I can't wait to read Ed and Elaine's upcoming novels as well. I'm still very excited about Realms fiction, even if it does have less bearing on how I use the setting in my games, and I'm sure I'll still find some things here and there that I can use in my "no Spellplague" version of the world, beyond the sheer enjoyment factor I'll derive from the authors that I appreciate.
I know the opinion of one scribe here at the keep probably doesn't amount to a whole lot, but at the same time, I didn't want my lack of interest in some of the 4th edition changes to translate into the mistaken impression that I don't appreciate the well crafted fiction that Realms authors put out.
Happy New Year all! |
Edited by - KnightErrantJR on 01 Jan 2008 21:32:04 |
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Purple Dragon Knight
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1796 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jan 2008 : 21:43:00
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quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
A General Message I Wanted to Convey
It occurs to me that while I'm not a big fan of the changes that we know are coming from the 4th edition incarnation of the Realms, that it could be easily extrapolated that my enthusiasm for some of the novel series, especially those that touch on the events that are related to the changes in the Realm, might have abated.
I'd just like to say that I'm actually still very much looking forward to reading Paul Kemp, Richard Lee Byers, Thomas Reid, and other author's books, even if those books move into a different time frame. These are proven authors and ones that have a feel for the Realms, and I'm going to keep reading them as long as I enjoy them, even if my Realms grow more and more distant from the one portrayed in the novels.
I can't wait to read Ed and Elaine's upcoming novels as well. I'm still very excited about Realms fiction, even if it does have less bearing on how I use the setting in my games, and I'm sure I'll still find some things here and there that I can use in my "no Spellplague" version of the world, beyond the sheer enjoyment factor I'll derive from the authors that I appreciate.
I know the opinion of one scribe here at the keep probably doesn't amount to a whole lot, but at the same time, I didn't want my lack of interest in some of the 4th edition changes to translate into the mistaken impression that I don't appreciate the well crafted fiction that Realms authors put out.
Happy New Year all!
Hear hear!
I'd like to echo this knight's feelings, as mine are the same. I still very much appreciate the Realmslore you all post on the CK site. Keep up the good work! (especially if that Realmslore is "pre-Spellplague!" ) |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jan 2008 : 19:26:03
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| Indeed, I still plan to read the novels of authors I've grown to like over the years. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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The Red Walker
Great Reader
USA
3563 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jan 2008 : 22:18:11
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quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
A General Message I Wanted to Convey
It occurs to me that while I'm not a big fan of the changes that we know are coming from the 4th edition incarnation of the Realms, that it could be easily extrapolated that my enthusiasm for some of the novel series, especially those that touch on the events that are related to the changes in the Realm, might have abated.
I'd just like to say that I'm actually still very much looking forward to reading Paul Kemp, Richard Lee Byers, Thomas Reid, and other author's books, even if those books move into a different time frame. These are proven authors and ones that have a feel for the Realms, and I'm going to keep reading them as long as I enjoy them, even if my Realms grow more and more distant from the one portrayed in the novels.
I can't wait to read Ed and Elaine's upcoming novels as well. I'm still very excited about Realms fiction, even if it does have less bearing on how I use the setting in my games, and I'm sure I'll still find some things here and there that I can use in my "no Spellplague" version of the world, beyond the sheer enjoyment factor I'll derive from the authors that I appreciate.
I know the opinion of one scribe here at the keep probably doesn't amount to a whole lot, but at the same time, I didn't want my lack of interest in some of the 4th edition changes to translate into the mistaken impression that I don't appreciate the well crafted fiction that Realms authors put out.
Happy New Year all!
My sentiments exactly, well put KEJ. |
A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka
"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -
John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 12 Mar 2008 : 15:23:10
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Thanks guys, that really does mean a lot to me.
And I promise that, come what may, I will do my very best to make sure that I write stuff that you will enjoy, regardless of when/where it may (or may not!) take place.
Because that's the writer's job. 
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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Richard Lee Byers
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
1814 Posts |
Posted - 12 Mar 2008 : 18:05:08
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| What Erik said goes for me too. |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 12 Mar 2008 : 20:00:13
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| You're both welcome, then. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Delzounblood
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
578 Posts |
Posted - 12 Mar 2008 : 23:15:36
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quote:
Originally posted by hammer of Moradin
Not wanting to completely change topic, but to prompt it in a new direction, I will pose this question: If you have an idea for a story, know the characters, setting, and pace, how do you start writing those first words? Do you start chapter one, page one? Do you develop a few scenes that you just have to get out? Or, do you write the end last?
I am as many a virgin writer!
To answer this question is very easy for me, My novel (a working progress) started as a character back story which was continualy fleshed out to the point, I thought would make a good story. I started in the present day and have used a flashback style to fill in the story so far, already knowing the storys end. I had been developing this story board in my head as I worked through the Character creation for a current FR campaign I am running. I know all the key points and major events I am just filling in the links and fleshing out the story with sub polts to run along the main body to combine in a shattering climax!
I have found reading other books in a style I am comfortable with helps my mindset in story creation.
Authors I use for differing styles vary greatly from Terry Pratchet, Bill Bryson, Tom Harris, Stephen King to nearly all of FR and DND authors.
I also use the most powerful tool I'll ever have! My imagination, which can be very twisted and deep to an abstract look at life painting.
my advise!
Use everything as a influence. try, try, try again. Never throw any work out, it might help reading it 3 months later for a different tack.
Goodluck everyone else who is trying. One day you might see your book on the shelf!
Delz |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 22 Mar 2008 : 01:48:09
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I was thinking about a new topic, but didn't know where to put it, and I suppose this as close to a general writer/designers forum as there is.
I was just thinking that a knowledgable person is a fans best friend, but alternately, he or she is the deisgnes/authors worst enemy.
Can this statement be said to be true? 
In other words, the more folks know about a world, the more inconsistencies we can spot. It seems like a great deal of the 4e changes were meant to get rid of that problem, but it seems that instead it is just aggravating it.
So, do you guys find it better for people who 'know less' to read your stuff?
From my own point of view, on one level, I think I enjoyed the novels much more when I was an FR 'newb'. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 22 Mar 2008 02:14:50 |
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Richard Lee Byers
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
1814 Posts |
Posted - 22 Mar 2008 : 04:53:54
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Markustay: It depends on what kind of "knowledgeable person" you are.
In my experience, there's a kind of KP with an essentially positive attitude who gets a big kick out of it when, in his opinion, a story evokes the authentic feel of a shared universe, or when it employs interesting elements of the shared setting. If a writer is making an honest effort, such readers are often very enthusiastic about his work.
Then there's a kind of KP with an essentially negative attitude. Even small inconsistencies annoy him to the point where he has difficulty recognizing the dramatic merits of the story. And he's likely to spot such inconsistencies with some regularity, because they're inevitable in any long-running series, particularly one written by multiple authors, and particularly one that periodically gets retconned.
Such KPs also tend to dislike a story just because the style differs from the style of the stories that originally attracted him to the series.
If you manage to please a reader like that, well, you're lucky. And so, everything else being equal, I'd rather hear from the first kind of KP. |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 22 Mar 2008 : 23:37:52
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quote:
Originally posted by Delzounblood
I am as many a virgin writer!
Then I hope you lose your virginity in the best way possible. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
Edited by - Rinonalyrna Fathomlin on 22 Mar 2008 23:38:26 |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 28 Mar 2008 : 05:10:25
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Thank for your very honest answer Rich.
I try to be the first type, but find myself often slipping into the second category. 
Its not intentional: I'm an avid reader, and I love the fact that I can come here and interact with the kind of people (authors) who have provided me with so many countless hours of enjoyment through my life. That is why I feel bad that I may be inadvertantly 'hurting' those who have done me such a great service.
It's good to be a fan, but not a fanatic.
Thanks for your input - after much soul-searching, I will try to be less judgmental, and just take the stories as what they are - fun tales about the world I have grown so fond of.
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"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Rosemary Jones
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
148 Posts |
Posted - 14 Apr 2008 : 05:44:20
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What's impressed me from the comments that I've gotten about CRYPT is people's willingness to go along with my slightly different style.
I worried a lot when I first started writing in the Realms. I wanted to tell a story in my voice but I really wanted to be a Realms story too!
And reading all the books that came out around the same time as my novel, I've had so much fun with all the different voices that the authors bring to their work. It's been a real education in all the ways that you can tell a great story. |
Rosemary Jones
www.rosemaryjones.com |
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Steven Schend
Forgotten Realms Designer & Author
USA
1707 Posts |
Posted - 14 Apr 2008 : 16:38:46
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quote:
Originally posted by Rosemary Jones
What's impressed me from the comments that I've gotten about CRYPT is people's willingness to go along with my slightly different style.
I worried a lot when I first started writing in the Realms. I wanted to tell a story in my voice but I really wanted to be a Realms story too!
And reading all the books that came out around the same time as my novel, I've had so much fun with all the different voices that the authors bring to their work. It's been a real education in all the ways that you can tell a great story.
It's funny that I'm more comfortable/understanding of the Realms and its lore than I am with my own "writer's voice." I'm still unsure exactly what my voice is in fiction/narrative, but after 10 years with the Realms as a designer and editor, I rarely even have to think about how certain characters sound as narrators, etc.
Now, having just finished another prologue for a spec novel today, I've identified one thing in my writer's "voice" that's carried through in all my works--I apparently must kill someone in the prologue to get things rolling.
Does this mean I'm doomed to write James Bond stories in the future with the obligatory pre-credits death?  
Steven
whose going to get Rosemary's book out of the to-read pile soon...right after these next 3 books of research for the spec novel in progress..... |
For current projects and general natter, see www.steveneschend.com
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Kajehase
Great Reader
Sweden
2104 Posts |
Posted - 14 Apr 2008 : 16:48:16
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quote:
Originally posted by Steven Schend
Does this mean I'm doomed to write James Bond stories in the future with the obligatory pre-credits death?
Steven
whose going to get Rosemary's book out of the to-read pile soon...right after these next 3 books of research for the spec novel in progress.....
Don't forget the explosion - there has to be an explosion as well. And a woman whose looks far outweigh her acting skills (and how does one portray that in a book ). |
There is a rumour going around that I have found god. I think is unlikely because I have enough difficulty finding my keys, and there is empirical evidence that they exist.
Terry Pratchett |
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Richard Lee Byers
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
1814 Posts |
Posted - 14 Apr 2008 : 18:01:55
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| And if you really want to follow the structure of the Bond movies (or at least most of them), all the sound and fury of the opening sequence won't have the slightest relevance to the rest of the story. |
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