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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
 Posted - 16 Sep 2005 : 15:43:10
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quote:
Originally posted by Zandilar
Heya,
Kuje, I don't think anyone was accusing Ed specifically of being unbalanced. The Forgotten Realms these days are way beyond only what Ed decrees, after all... And it was Ed who showed that Caladnei was actually "mulatto" in Elminster's Daughter. ('twas Troy Denning who "messed/mixed up" her description in the Return of the Archwizards series, and I'm not saying that was soley his fault either - these things happen, especially in a world shared as extensively as this one).
I must ruefully admit to also suffering from "colour blindness" in my own works, and the last post I made to that thread I did with blushing cheeks, realising just how much I fall into the same trap. I'm not being a hypocrite, I'm just admitting to my own weakness.  Though in my own defense, I must say that most of what I write is set in a relatively small geographic region - if I were to ever expand beyond a single kingdom, I would probably take into account other races.
Actually there are a few posters who are claiming that the game designers/authors, and Ed, have done what I said. Shrug and a few posters over there are making broad assumptions at the time I wrote my request to Ed. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore
5056 Posts |
Posted - 16 Sep 2005 : 15:50:12
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Hello, all. I forwarded the WotC board thread and the posts here to Ed, on the topic of races presented in the Realms, and here’s his reply:
Sigh. I suppose this is what inevitably happens when almost two decades have elapsed since the launch of the published Realms.
For the record, folks, “my” (original) Realms has always been inhabited by humans of all sorts of skin hues. With different cuisines (Volo’s Guides, anyone?), fashions, dialects, and architecture, too. As far as racism, conscious or unconscious, goes, I fail to see how a calmly-reasoning person can detect any such thing in the design of the Realms (note: as opposed to the attitudes of particular Faerûnian characters) when the setting features different races (elves, dwarves, halflings, humans, orcs) dwelling together, marrying, and interbreeding (half-orcs and half-elves have been in the D&D game from the beginning, and in the Realms before D&D existed). The Savage North (where much early Realmsplay occurred) tends to be dominated by Nordic-hued humans, but from the outset I furnished TSR with descriptions of the folk of Turmish, Calimshan, et al that were very “eclectic” - - and Waterdeep was stressed as a veritable ‘United Nations’ of different folk, in my first turnover packages. I’m a Canadian, remember, who grew up in the most multicultural city in the world (Toronto), so a skin-colour-mix is ‘normal’ for me, not unusual.
However, what the posters on the WotC list are obviously forgetting, or are too young to realize when they make statements about my design, is that the published Realms has a ‘look and feel’ dominated by TSR artists and editors of the time, and their determination that Tolkienesque fantasy sold, so Tolkienesque (and King Arthur, and Merrie Olde Englande of Robin Hood fame) was what was going to be emphasized. And so it was.
I had several TSR fiction editors change characters to white “because that’s what the majority of our audience will identify with,” and that, after all, is one of the root goals of a publisher.
I’d appreciate it if a kindly scribe (Kuje?) will post this to the WotC boards; my antiquated computer system prevents me from doing so.
And Zandilar, there’s nothing wrong with “colour blindness.” THAT’s true non-racism; it’s only folks caught up in racist attitudes, disputes, and controversies who repeatedly pay attention to skin colour. I deal with people as individuals; I may be interested in their personal backgrounds, but I don’t see them as members of a monolithic “people” (because these days, with the exception of a few isolated tribes, no one truly is).
To GothicDan on the WotC boards: Chult was indeed part of my original Realms. It didn’t have Ubtao or the “Lost World” elements (those were added by TSR), but it did have the jungles with their fearsome monsters (and LOTS of serpentfolk), and black-skinned (I use the word “black” here because I really mean coal-black hued) human tribes inhabiting them. Nor did I not detail the cosmology until the publisher asked me to; the Realms had a detailed cosmology before there was a D&D game. It’s hard for people to reach proper conclusions in any discussion dominated by inaccurate statements (assumptions, I assume) about what I did or thought or now believe. Please remember that I handed TSR a detailed continent that they chose (necessarily at first due to limited time and resources, but later deliberately) to spotlight only tiny portions of: Waterdeep and the North, the Dales and the Heartlands). Even after nigh-twenty years of Realms products, Sembia and the Border Kingdoms and many other areas (not just cities) are relatively undetailed, in print. They are not all so undetailed in my basement full of boxed notes, nor even in the various lore packages I turned over to TSR and WotC over the years. Just last week I was asked to “create” a map of a place that I’d actually handed to TSR in 1986, and which they’d never published and subsequently lost.
I say again: the focus on the “bright white” area of the Realms is the result of publishing decisions, not of the underlying design.
However, there’s nothing at all wrong with this debate, so long as it stays calm and people pay attention to exactly what other posters post, and try to keep things reasoned and factual as possible.
One of my fiercest ongoing battles with TSR and later WotC, down the years, has been my desire to geographically cover the entire surface of the globe, Faerûn first, and their desire to feature just a few areas over and over again.
So saith Ed, who’s hard at work on a non-Realms project (!) for WotC. And no, neither he nor I will say more.
love to all,
THO
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 16 Sep 2005 : 16:01:29
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| Done. :) |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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Jamallo Kreen
Master of Realmslore
USA
1537 Posts |
Posted - 16 Sep 2005 : 21:25:36
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quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One
Hi, everyone. In yet another bound-to-be-controversial gods and divine spellcasters reply, Ed deals with Jamallo Kreen’s question: “If a caster of "divine" spells comes from outside 3E Realmspace with a class or prestige class other than "cleric" which very specifically allows access to "divine" spells without prayer to a deity ("Favored Soul," for instance), are they ... ah ... stuff outta luck without a Torilian patron (as they were in 2E) unless one of the above-suggested flukes occurs? What of spellcasters who rely on spirits for their spells but who come from outside Realmspace? Are there local spirits anxious to grant spells in order to add another worshipper/friend/whatever to their collection (not least because said mobile spellcaster can be a useful defender for them)? Or do the spirits of Toril arch their eyebrows at such types with an attitude of, "Why should we give spells to someone who would associate with Mount Watchmacallit on Planet Xyz?"”
Ed replies:
Hear now my usual caveat: I’m not (and have never been) a WotC staff designer, and am not the best source for game rules “rulings,” official or otherwise. However . . .
To gain divine spells in Realmspace, one MUST have a patron deity to grant them (one cannot worship an alignment, idea, concept, or principle and receive spells in answer to prayers).
(snippity)
So saith Ed. Doing the stealthy, gentle Canadian compromise thing, as usual.
love to all,
THO
Many thanks, THO and Ed for the answers to this and my queries from two days ago (I always welcome further details vis-a-vis "the Classics," though!).
I have a RULES question which may well belong elsewhere, but Ed may be able to provide insight which settles the matter for the more formal amongst us: is the creature known as the "ur-priest," who can "steal" divine power to do clerical magic even possible within Realmspace? Admittedly the things of the Gods are known to the Gods, etc., but the DM is something of an Overpower; as such, being a DM, I'd like to know if allowing an ur-priest to function according to the written rules is possible in "real" Realms gaming, or if some deity (Gargauth, for example) would knowingly and deliberately power the spells of the ur-priest for reasons which are (probably) nefarious? (I could imagine a Good or Neutral deity, far-seeing Savras, for instance, powering spells for such a priest in the expectation of eventually acquiring him or her as a worshipper, but Gargauth or Cyric or Bane would probably do it just to raise heck and create eventual despair; a demon lord or devil would probably be delighted to grant spells to an ur-priest and then appear some time later contract and pen in hand and an announcement that only a signature is necessary for the spells to keep on comin'.)
I'm sorry if I seem to be flogging an expired equine, but I have a Thayvian PC in my campaign, and the player has hopes of him becoming an ur-priest. I have said that is not a guaranteed available class, but I would like to know what options Ed and others consider to be available for such a PC before I slam the door on the PC. (Eternal damnation for the character is one of the possibilities -- mwahahahahaaaaaa! -- but not the only one. "Hey, everybody! Field trip to Hell! XP! XP!")
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I have a mouth, but I am in a library and must not scream.
Feed the poor and stroke your ego, too: http://www.freerice.com/index.php.
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Edited by - Jamallo Kreen on 16 Sep 2005 21:26:50 |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 17 Sep 2005 : 01:20:21
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I hate to be redundant, as I am sure someone must have asked this before, but I couldn't find anything in a search, so here goes:
Is there something that we haven't yet learned about Maalthiir? He seems pretty ruthless to the point of certainly qualifying as evil. If he had inherited Hillsfar and didn't change the status quo, I might understand his neutrality, but given that he actively took over the city and changed it, I have a hard time "getting" him.
So are there aspects to his personality we don't know, or deep dark reasons that he took over the city that, at least in his mind, justify some of his harsher actions? |
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore
5056 Posts |
Posted - 17 Sep 2005 : 02:05:29
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Hello again, all. Ed’s reply to Pipers Youth reminded him that he’d never answered Ardashir’s query from back in January about that same amusing little SILVERFALL web piece. Wherefore:
Yes, Ardashir, I’ve written about twenty short stories of that sort, and countless little snippets. I often used to entertain my players (in the days before TSR bought the Realms) with little “Ed (gulp) meets Storm while she’s strolling around unclad, and struggles to keep his gaze away from certain vistas, to her vast and teasing amusement” or suchlike tales, often only about a page long. My players loved them, and used to “re-use” them by substituting the names of real people for the characters’ names (a trick anyone can use to temporarily turn, say, a Harlequin romance into a laugh riot). I’ll have to figure out ways to sneak more of them into places where Realms fans can see them. Plying Peter Archer with strong drink at GenCon was my “classic” plan, but he stands tall, unresponsive to such blandishments. On the other hand, it was he who championed “Edtime Stories” as a “someday” WotC book. :}
So saith Ed. Who I can just see putting the salacious finishing touches on such a tome. I’d buy it, but then . . . you all know what I’m like. 
love,
THO
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 17 Sep 2005 : 03:23:12
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quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One
So saith Ed, who’s hard at work on a non-Realms project (!) for WotC. And no, neither he nor I will say more.
love to all,
THO
Hehe... you may not be able to say anything more about the project itself, but can you at least suggest when you might be able to talk more about it?
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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khorne
Master of Realmslore
Finland
1073 Posts |
Posted - 17 Sep 2005 : 13:12:56
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quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
I hate to be redundant, as I am sure someone must have asked this before, but I couldn't find anything in a search, so here goes:
Is there something that we haven't yet learned about Maalthiir? He seems pretty ruthless to the point of certainly qualifying as evil. If he had inherited Hillsfar and didn't change the status quo, I might understand his neutrality, but given that he actively took over the city and changed it, I have a hard time "getting" him.
So are there aspects to his personality we don't know, or deep dark reasons that he took over the city that, at least in his mind, justify some of his harsher actions?
Well he is a real racist(which is the main reason I was disappointed when Saarya didn`t manage to kill him) |
If I were a ranger, I would pick NDA for my favorite enemy |
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore
5056 Posts |
Posted - 18 Sep 2005 : 15:05:58
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Hello again, scribes. I present Ed’s reply to Asgetrion’s late May questions about local lords in Cormyr (Ed will deal with the guilds questions posed in the same post, at some later time): “The local lords and heralds seem to leave few duties for the nobility, so I would like to know if the local nobility has any authority over commoners in rural communities in Cormyr, and what are their duties to the Crown? What is the difference between nobility and the local lords? Is there any rivalry between the noble families and the Heralds? I am also curious about the fact that none of the local lords in Cormyr seem to come from the Realm's many prominent noble families - why? Are these posts seen by nobility as only fit for "upstarts" who wish to "get their hands dirty with commoner trash", or perhaps the King has always wished to fill these posts with people he can trust (such as ex-Purple Dragons or ex-adventurers)?”
Ed speaks:
First of all, a reminder to all scribes again that Heralds (and heralds; and yes, there IS a difference) are NDA’d right now, so I’ll say nothing about them.
The nobility in Cormyr typically, down the centuries, tried to behave like absolute tyrants (killing “commoners,” raping or forcibly marrying them, seizing their land and property at will, and so on). As a result, the nobles have seen more and more of their real power stripped from them by ever-stronger laws protecting the rights of “citizens” (commoners) passed by the Crown and enforced by Purple Dragons (loyal to the Crown, not nobles) and the War Wizards (loyal to the realm, not the Crown nor the nobles). This has resulted in Cormyr becoming one of the strongest, most resilient, “loyal” kingdoms in Faerûn, and having a steady stream of rebellious nobles.
Nobles are also, by definition, “entitled” to their powers, by birth. They may or may not be incompetent or corrupt, but they certainly have a higher chance of being so than persons appointed into office by a monarch on merit, who feel personal loyalty to that monarch for elevating them.
All of which is why Azoun IV appointed his own local administrators, giving them the title of “Lord” to make it clear that they held his royal authority, and were just as “good” as any noble (Myrmeen Lhal in Arabel, a female, is “Lady Lord of Arabel,” not “Lady of Arabel”). His local lords are his judges, eyes, and military commanders locally (although in all of these roles they can be overruled by specialists “sent in” by the Crown: War Wizards to act as judges, as seen in my story “The Grinning Ghost of Taverton Hall;” War Wizards, Highknights, and others to act as spies; and Purple Dragon officers of sufficient rank to act as military commanders), fulfilling such roles so that the neighbourhood nobles don’t have to - - or try to. So you’re quite right: “the King has always wished to fill these posts with people he can trust (such as ex-Purple Dragons or ex-adventurers).” The occasional local lord (Ildool) has ‘gone bad,’ but on the whole Azoun knows he can trust his local lords far more than he can any collection of nobles.
Nobles may now sneer at local lords and their work (and some of them may secretly be quite relieved not to have to try to carry out those duties), but the truth is, Azoun barred them all from such service. Not explicitly, but for the few exceptional individuals among the nobility he could trust as local lords, he doesn’t want to make them hated or endangered by other nobles because they are singled out as trusted exceptions.
Cormyrean nobles do have roles and duties to the Crown: they sit as juries in local justice (along with commoners), can dispense temporary justice or military leadership in the absence of local lords, magisters, and Purple Dragon officers of rank. They have duties to report to Crown officers irregularities they perceive in the behaviour of local lords, outlander visitors, commoners, and everyone else in “their lands,” and all “information, rumors, and sightings that may of interest to the security of the realm” (War Wizards investigate these reports, not trusting in them at all until corroborated by their own findings).
Nobles also have the duties of serving on road-patrols when commanded to by the Crown, and furnishing food, drink, shelter, remounts, and even reinforcements (in the form of themselves or trained-to-arms servants and bodyguards) to Crown military forces when the Crown deems it needful (a Purple Dragon force can ride up to the gates of a noble and demand - - not request - - shelter).
Many nobles are proud to serve their country, and rise high in rank among courtiers at the Royal Court or within the ranks of the Purple Dragons. Azoun just didn’t trust enough nobles to let them do it without his own hand-picked, competent personnel (the “local lords”) in place to make sure the needs of the realm were served well.
So saith Ed. Creator of Cormyr, Azoun, the War Wizards and Purple Dragons, and almost all of those pesky nobles, too.
love to all,
THO
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore
5056 Posts |
Posted - 19 Sep 2005 : 05:06:49
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Hello, fellow scribes. Ed of the Greenwood replies to Skeptic’s request for information on the laws and enforcement of drug use, sale, and production in Waterdeep:
The drug trade in Waterdeep is largely confined to Skullport (dealing, storage of large amounts): “topside” or in the city proper there is no drug production and only runner-to-client selling, face to face (some nobles send their stewards, bodyguards, or trade agents to buy). Aside from the Serpent and certain individuals detailed in Eric Boyd’s superb CITY OF SPLENDORS: WATERDEEP sourcebook, runners tend to be lone individuals or gangs of no more than three (a runner and two “lookouts,” often young children, such as girls, who serve the runner as eyes and as places to stash drugs if the Watch approaches; Watch officers will be far more reluctant to search a young girl’s crotch than the body of a hard-bitten, known-to-them Dock Ward tough).
A Lords’ Edict was long ago issued banning the making and selling of drugs in Waterdeep - - so the “crime” involved is Willful disobedience of Any Edict (exile for 5 years or a 1,000-gp fine, the former enacted on all outlanders and non-property owners, the latter against all Waterdhavian landowning citizens - - who will find themselves VERY closely watched for a month, then again in the third month, because the Watch wants to catch and fine them again). It’s not a crime to use drugs, nor (strictly speaking) to possess them. In practice, nobles and wealthy merchants will receive nothing but a stern “we’re watching you” warning if caught with either small or large amounts of drugs, but a “commoner” merchant or labourer will be assumed to have the drugs to sell, and will be sentenced accordingly (unless members of the Guild of Apothecaries & Physicians).
Aside from those guild members, drugs that can readily be used to kill (even just with overdoses) can, if the Watch or magisters involved desire it, be treated as poisons, and arrested beings are charged with “Murder” even though no killing has yet occurred. (Waterdhavian justice has no “attempted murder” or “intended murder” charges, so what happens is a murder trial, usually resulting in a sentencing for “Murder With Justification” (5-year exile or 3 years of enforced hard labour).
Please bear in mind that Waterdeep has no “war on drugs” real-world attitude, because alchemy, doctoring, and the like all approve of using herbal and created substances to help the sick or injured, and most clergy use mind-altering or pain-numbing herbs and “drugs” as part of their rituals. Drugs are only seen as bad when they are clearly intended to be used to incapacitate someone so they can be taken advantage of (killed, robbed, raped, kidnapped, made to sign or say things they otherwise wouldn’t, and so on). Poisons are always seen as bad except when used with state sanction in war, or by physicians as part of medical treatment (and this latter use is VERY closely watched).
So saith Ed. Who will return with more Realmslore soon.
love to all,
THO
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Gareth Yaztromo
Acolyte
Australia
37 Posts |
Posted - 19 Sep 2005 : 13:06:12
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| Hey Ed, I was wondering (just finished "Hand of Fire") is Hesperdan as old or older than Elminister? And is there any other of your works with this evil wizard in it? |
"Gereth Yaztromo is arguably the most famous wizard of Allansia due to his part in a number of the most well known sagas of that region from the third century AC. He is also known as one of the three Star Pupils of the Grand Wizard of Yore.." |
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Phelan
Acolyte
1 Posts |
Posted - 19 Sep 2005 : 16:02:21
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Hello, mr Greenwood.
I’m journalist from Russia. I work in biggest magazine about sci-fi and fantasy. We would like to publish interview with you. If it is interesting for you, pkease write to me at phelan@journalist.com. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 19 Sep 2005 : 17:12:06
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quote:
Originally posted by Gareth Yaztromo
Hey Ed, I was wondering (just finished "Hand of Fire") is Hesperdan as old or older than Elminister? And is there any other of your works with this evil wizard in it?
Hesperdan also appears in the short story "How Wisdom Came to the Maimed Wizard", which appeared in the recent anthology The Best of the Realms, Book II: The Stories of Ed Greenwood (a.k.a. "The Best of Eddie") |
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore
5056 Posts |
Posted - 20 Sep 2005 : 23:52:09
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Hello once more, fellow scribes. I bring to you this time three informational notes, and Ed’s latest replies to The Sage.
First the notes:
All scribes who enjoy Ed’s fiction should make sure not to miss the fourth “outtake” from ELMINSTER; THE MAKING OF A MAGE, entitled “Revenge Among Thieves.” It can be found in the Wizards Book archives page, and was actually posted back in August. I missed seeing it, despite knowing it was going to appear, and I haven’t found any mention of it here at Candlekeep, so . . . at your service, gentles.
The non-Realms project I mentioned has begun to appear on the WotC Legendology page: it’s a novelette entitled “Oroon Rising.”
Ed will “fall silent” here at Candlekeep this coming Saturday (September 24th), and perhaps the Sunday as well, as he’ll be Guest of Honour (again) at Phantasm in Peterborough, Ontario (it’s at the Market Hall Theatre in the downtown, at 336 George Street North: look for the obviously historic-age clock/bell tower). Ed will be running a workshop on getting published on Saturday, from 10am-2pm, then running a (2nd Edition, with the usual Baron’s Blades characters as PCs) Realms roleplaying session from 3-7pm, answering questions during the 7-8 dinner break, and then on Sunday running the same Realms roleplaying session again, from 10am-2pm. Phantasm is a long-established, small, informal local con, so if you really want a chance to talk to Ed at length, this is it!
And now, Ed’s words to The Sage:
Hi. Regarding the non-Realms project: it’s finished and turned in. How soon it will appear is up to certain web folk at WotC, but I believe I’ll be able to enlighten you further soon.
Regarding this query of yours: “What can you tell us about other previous "Gemcloak"-like organisations (and I use the term loosely) who may have decided to ply their "trade" in Waterdeep? Certainly, every noble or wealthy family in the City of Splendors has the potential to "breed" such individuals, but I'd like to know more about specific groups that may exist (or perhaps existed in the past) that we have never even heard about.”
There are and have been constant cabals and cliques of young nobles; some of them even survive as the nobles age to become “old fat nasty uncles” (that’s the stereotype, regarding lechers who delight in shocking and scandalizing at feasts; you saw passing glimpses of a few of them in the revel Elaith held, in CITY OF SPLENDORS). Like the ‘gangs’ (and I’m using this term very loosely, to apply to groups who “hang out together” as opposed to armed and possibly criminal street bands of youths who have initiations and gain wealth and power through the reputations they build by doing illicit and daring things) most real-world youth form in high school, the nobles of Waterdeep are constantly forming (and shifting, and re-forming) groups who “go on social prowls” together.
Female nobles seldom gather in groups to do adventurous or even ‘on the street’ expeditions, unless said groups are two or at most three friends, who may go shopping together (along with many servants to handle their money, carry their purchases, and protect them). Female groups tend to be ‘gossip circles’ who gather at each other’s villas, or ‘go off together’ to talk at revels and feasts. VERY occasionally the most daring female nobles will “put on mens’ clothing” and go to visit a tavern (or even a higher-class festhall), or get in a coach together for a daring (with much squealingin excitement and peering about) “rumble through Dock Ward.”
However, the prankplaying, sword-swinging, mischief-in-the-streets behaviour you saw the Gemcloaks exhibit (complete with the “ultimate in naughtiness” hideout in DOCK Ward!) in CITY OF SPLENDORS is almost exclusively male noble behaviour (and occasionally adopted by the sons of very rich non-noble merchants, aspiring to be noble, or guildmembers’ sons, “pretending” at being both for a lark and so they can damage someone’s shop or goods or person and have it blamed on “idiot wastrel nobles.”
As you can guess, these groupings are far too numerous, short-lived, and mutable to even attempt to list. Few of them both to give themselves names or uniforms, though they tend to delight in using passwords and writing cryptic coded notes to each other signed only with (adopted, not heraldic) symbols. So there have been thousands of Gemcloak-like organizations, but only about a dozen recent or still active “named” cabals that I can recall. Most of them begin as ways to enhance reputation and so be able to bed more lasses (on the one hand) and (on another) to justify to disapproving elders and parents group activities (such as tavern-crawls and festhall “wild wenching expeditions”) in Dock Ward or other “disreputable” parts of the city, by passing them off as investments and business-related, conducted through the group.
Here are a few of the named cabals:
So saith Ed. I’ve sweetly chopped him off in mid-speech so as not to run up against the post-length-limit, but I promise those groups he speaks of will appear here tomorrow.
Furious, Sage? Chase me and chastise me (I implore you). Get your whip, and I’ll giggle and wait right here until you return, before fleeing . . .
(And the usual rules apply: if I ever get out of your sight, ahead of you, I’ll remove and drop an item of clothing, so you can follow the trail.)
love,
THO
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore
5056 Posts |
Posted - 21 Sep 2005 : 00:17:02
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Hello again, all. Here, as promised, are the Waterdhavian noble groups Ed’s briefly listed, for The Sage and for us all:
THE BRIGHT BLADES OF NORTH WARD: now (since the unfortunate death of young and handsome Asmurar Kormallis, “the Golden God”) led by the thuggish younger Phull sons Dundelmer and Trioth, these eight or so noble sons include no direct house heirs. They love fighting (not fair fights or fisticuffs, but running their blades through people) and dislike outlanders - - and as a result, tend to visit Dock Ward taverns and festhalls often, where they target drunken, disorderly, or violence-loving visiting sailors and drovers. Rumored (correctly) to be involved in slayings, shop-pillagings, and “masked rapes of guildmasters’ wives,” as a result of debts incurred to Waterdhavian criminals who take such services as “partial payments” of such debts. As one Watch officer put it gloomily: “The Brights? Cruelty excites them - - worse luck for everyone else in the Deep.”
THE BLACKLEGS: led by the fat, food-loving debaucher (and aging uncle of his house) Roarthoes Margaster, this is the oldest of the infamous nobles’ cabals. Many of its members have seen forty winters, and are now overweight and much plagued by gout and other illnesses associated with high living. Known to be involved in providing drink, drugs (and it’s rumored, poisons), and lowborn bedmate lasses to various nobles, the Blacklegs have largely retired from their infamous “brawl with all comers” swordfights down various Dock Ward alleys (wherein they trusted to personal magic items to keep themselves alive, and didn’t consider themselves “fullbloods” [= real members] unless they’d been badly wounded at least once), to meeting in North Ward and Sea Ward taverns to scheme over investment opportunities, shady and otherwise, and the right times to import casks of drinkables so as to command the highest prices. The Blacklegs are some fourteen strong, but only about five of them are really active. They collectively sneer at “young thickheaded bucks” (younger nobles who gather in groups to “cut up wild”), and collectively leer at “young lasses these days,” often arranging largescale pandering parties as alternative sneakaway entertainments at particularly boring noble social gatherings (so that noble-born men - - and occasionally women, too - - can sneak away from boring speeches and stilted dances to another part of the estate for daring and fun sex, and then slip back into the “proper” goings-on). Prominent Blacklegs include the mincing, monacled Korlgan Lathkule, and the monstrously fat, scented-bearded dandy Relligo Ilvastarr.
THE TALONS: Sponsored by the crippled and aging “noble uncle” Laeroth Hothemer to be his entertainment and his agents (so he can still influence events in Waterdeep), these young, desperate-to-prove-themselves lads are contemptuously known as “Laeroth’s Lads” by other noble cabals, who tend to regard them as foolish, meddling, reckless young boys who must be under the sexual dominance of Laeroth. This is very far from the truth: Laeroth prefers ladies (and lots of them!), and the only matters sexual he involves the Talons in is to occasionally spy on the doings of (merchant-class and lowborn) ladies he has his eye on, to learn their allegiances, hobbies, likes and dislikes so as to be able to both lure and entertain them best. (Laeroth likes to have many lovers, befriend them, and keep them as friends; he can walk only short distances on his many-times-broken, weak and spindly legs, wheezing and supporting himself on sticks, and is no physical threat to anyone, nor much of a social catch. Most of his lovers like him very much, and keep in touch. For one thing, he expects his ladies to want to be fed and wined well, and given new dresses of their choosing, almost every time he sees them.)
On the streets, the Talons are led (right now; as they age, youths tend to leave the group to gain more independence, or to show their parents they’re distancing themselves from “that debauched old toad Hothemer”) by the handsome, glib-tongued Branthos Husteem, his sidekick the tall and pompous Elmrose Hunabar, and his rising rival Martrym Eltorchul.
THE WHAELWHIRL BUCKLERS: Started by the (now middle-aged) Omnsur Jardeth as a way of impressing ladies and his noble elders with his bravery, the Bucklers have from the first claimed to be a fellowship of well-armed adventurers who regularly scour out the upper levels of Undermountain, paying particular attention to “perils that might soon erupt up into our fair city if not dealt with.” They hint darkly about involvement with various Masked Lords, and being used as secret agents by “the Castle.”
This is all so much hoo-hah, and always has been. The Bucklers like to tell stories of their adventurers (this monster fought, that fell wizard forced to flee for his life; see this scar?), but in truth spend most of their time swaggering in “show” armor into Castle Ward and Trades Ward taverns and clubs, giving everyone “lean and darkly dangerous” looks, and drinking with whatever ladies such behaviour attracts (yes, they often drug the drinks of those who don’t seem willing enough to share beds). Omnsur and the older Bucklers never do more than this, because they don’t regard the Bucklers as having any other use - - but increasingly, younger Bucklers are growing restless and wanting to have REAL adventures. Not so much down in Undermountain or anything really dangerous, but how about cutting a few of these increasingly cocky guildsmen down to size? And curbing some of the petty criminals, by hunting down the bolder ones and maiming them really thoroughly? (One Buckler chased a sneak-thief whom he saw departing an upper window of his family’s mansion, and took great delight in running the man’s biceps and thighs through with his sword, leaving the man unable to even crawl away; the Buckler retrieved the stolen jewelry, left the man for the Watch to find, and hasn’t stopped telling his story to fellow Bucklers, ever since.)
THE SUNSADDLES: Perhaps closest to the early Gemcloaks in outlook and behaviour, these ten young noblemen (formally “the Sunset Saddles,” though no one at all uses that name anymore) are bored and seek entertainment in playing pranks, playing “chase and find” games across the city, and duelling (not to the death, but to some silly achievement like cutting off an opponent’s codpiece and then hurling it through a certain window). Members include Zorn Agundar, Halark Dezlentyr, Delzil Crommor, and the youngest, quietest Eagleshield daughter, Murelle (a small, dark-haired, lithe lass who wears mens’ clothing when “out with the Saddles,” and speaks in obscenity-laced growls to try to sound male). Zorn, Halark, and Delzil are the real leaders of the group.
The Saddles were responsible for the precipitous closing of the Sword and Spur gambling club in Castle Ward (when they revealed in striking fashion - - involving couples caught in flagrante being run through the streets in their beds, enspelled to maintain their embraces as said beds were loaded onto coaches, and sent on a tour of Sea Ward, North Ward, and Castle Ward - - that it was a front for guildmasters’ wives and other bored wealthy non-quite-noble wives to prostitute themselves to nobles in return for business favours). They were also involved in the trashing of a hunting lodge outside Red Larch where the notorious Maesmur “Millioncoin” Brokengulf was meeting Luskanite merchants to arrange various shady business dealings, and are often in the thick of Dock Ward tavern brawls, where they delight in humiliating drunkards by “spanking with swords,” tripping, hurling through furniture or into chamberpots, and then departing as the REAL violence erupts.
So saith Ed. Who comes through again with juicy Realmslore for Waterdeep campaigns. Couple this with his Waterdeep News web snippets (and relevant “Realmslore” web columns), CITY OF SPLENDORS (both the novel and the 2nd Edition boxed game set), the relevant chapters of ELFSHADOW, ELFSONG, and SILVERFALL and Ed’s relevant “Realms of” stories, VOLO’S GUIDE TO WATERDEEP, and Eric Boyd’s recent superb sourcebook, and any DM has more than enough to bring “the Deep” to vivid life for a decade or so of game play.
Go for it!
love,
THO
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Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
Posted - 21 Sep 2005 : 01:46:50
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A question for Ed
Whats going on in Darkhold these days and whose calling the shots?
When the FRC came out it strongly suggested that the Cyricists had control of Darkhold. However in City of Splendors (under the Malchior entry) it seems that the Banites have started to take over Darkhold.
Thanks in advance |
“I am the King of Rome, and above grammar”
Emperor Sigismund
"Its good to be the King!"
Mel Brooks |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 21 Sep 2005 : 02:54:52
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quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One
So saith Ed. I’ve sweetly chopped him off in mid-speech so as not to run up against the post-length-limit, but I promise those groups he speaks of will appear here tomorrow.
If there hadn't been so many outages of the forums here at Candlekeep yesterday, I might have been able to read this earlier  . Oh, to be deprived of such lore for so long from the quill of the Old Bearded One...  .
Thank you Ed .
quote:
Furious, Sage? Chase me and chastise me (I implore you). Get your whip, and I’ll giggle and wait right here until you return, before fleeing . . .
(And the usual rules apply: if I ever get out of your sight, ahead of you, I’ll remove and drop an item of clothing, so you can follow the trail.)
love,
THO
Hehe... Oh my Lady, you know how to tempt this humble old sage. But what would my dear Lady K say about such "activities"? 
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
Edited by - The Sage on 21 Sep 2005 02:56:30 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 21 Sep 2005 : 03:30:00
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One
Furious, Sage? Chase me and chastise me (I implore you). Get your whip, and I’ll giggle and wait right here until you return, before fleeing . . .
(And the usual rules apply: if I ever get out of your sight, ahead of you, I’ll remove and drop an item of clothing, so you can follow the trail.)
love,
THO
Hehe... Oh my Lady, you know how to tempt this humble old sage. But what would my dear Lady K say about such "activities"?
If you're lucky, she'd join you!  |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
Posted - 21 Sep 2005 : 03:39:08
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One
Furious, Sage? Chase me and chastise me (I implore you). Get your whip, and I’ll giggle and wait right here until you return, before fleeing . . .
(And the usual rules apply: if I ever get out of your sight, ahead of you, I’ll remove and drop an item of clothing, so you can follow the trail.)
love,
THO
Hehe... Oh my Lady, you know how to tempt this humble old sage. But what would my dear Lady K say about such "activities"?
If you're lucky, she'd join you!
*Waits to see if Wooly gets beaten with the Rod of Significant other* |
“I am the King of Rome, and above grammar”
Emperor Sigismund
"Its good to be the King!"
Mel Brooks |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 21 Sep 2005 : 05:56:45
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
If you're lucky, she'd join you!
If that were the case, I wouldn't know where to begin .
But enough of my wishful thinking, we really should return to questions for Ed.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Kajehase
Great Reader
Sweden
2104 Posts |
Posted - 21 Sep 2005 : 06:16:00
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
If you're lucky, she'd join you!
If that were the case, I wouldn't know where to begin .
But enough of my wishful thinking, we really should return to questions for Ed.
Right you are Sage. So in that spirit, greetings once more Sir Ed of the Green Wood and Lady Hooded One, I bring you a query of a linguistic and geographical nature, namely, has there been made up any established geographical terms (river, north, lake, stream, forest, and so on) in the various Realms-languages?
I am thinking of making a map of the Dales with the various place-names written in Chondathan (for the benefit of some Ruathen PCs out on a jaunt), and thought I should ask before I started making up my own words (which in my opinion is always a good way to pass a slow evening). |
There is a rumour going around that I have found god. I think is unlikely because I have enough difficulty finding my keys, and there is empirical evidence that they exist.
Terry Pratchett |
Edited by - Kajehase on 21 Sep 2005 13:37:56 |
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Spidroth esq.
Acolyte
5 Posts |
Posted - 21 Sep 2005 : 08:01:40
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Greetings to Ed and our dear Hooded Lady. I've a lore request to make this day. Please, tell me of Lantan!
I've found very little on this nation of Gondar inventors, the few paragraphs within in the 3rd edition Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting, and Gonds entry in Faiths and Avatars seems to be the the whole of it besides small snippets of text all relating to Lantanna trade in places along the Sword Coast and merchant realms to the south.
I've read over a few other inqueries that were sent your way last year about the technological aspects of Lantan, but I wish to know more.
Anything you might share on this island nation that hasn't been covered before would be greatly appreciated.
~ A hopeful new scribe of Candlekeep, and longtime fan, Spidroth esq. |
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khorne
Master of Realmslore
Finland
1073 Posts |
Posted - 21 Sep 2005 : 10:09:24
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| Well, now that we have seen plenty of examples of noble bands with the cranial capacity of an undead goblin, are there any young nobles who form bands that "mean business" as in trying to be serious adventurers, and(preferably) surviving? As in: a young noble has been gone for over a year from home, when he comes home his father is pissed of and asks him what he`s been doing, and as a means of reply he hauls up the skull of some horrible monster and/or precious jewelry from his backpack. |
If I were a ranger, I would pick NDA for my favorite enemy |
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ericlboyd
Forgotten Realms Designer
USA
2067 Posts |
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reldra
Acolyte
USA
1 Posts |
Posted - 21 Sep 2005 : 23:22:44
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Just wondering...a name LIKe Reldra or the name Reldra? I am Reldra. I have been reldra on the net since 1995 and own the domain name reldra.com, and of course use it as a roleplaying name.
quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One
Hello again, fellow scribes. Herewith, Ed concludes his reply to Kuje:
The Boar presides over the kitchen staff (stolid middle-aged women with names like Reldra and Immra, and darting-fast, ratlike young men rescued from the streets, with names like Orlarrin and Jelst) and the servers (mainly retired bodyguards and hireswords, with names like “Red” and Lorgel, Juth and Morryk, and a surprising range of talents for plumbing and painting and carpentry).
The two hostesses and two doorlars (if illness or injury reduces their numbers, an upstairs lady helps out as hostess, and a server steps in as doorlar) report to Ambra.
The hostesses are tall, dark, exotic-looking Jemlarra (from Nimbral), who’s a superb mimic and actress and likes to wear gowns side-leg-slit all the way up to her waist; and Dautha (of Westgate, a honey-huksy-voiced “bright young thing” with blonde hair, ample curves, and a false but superbly-done “innocent” manner; she often “inadvertently” shows flesh, with a completely straight, earnest face).
The senior doorlar is Jharak (“Old Jhaer”), a long-nosed, narrow-chinned, bearded man who chuckles a lot and looks rather piratical. He’s a grumbler, but loves jokes and making people laugh, and is very popular among the “family” of staff at the Lady. The junior doorlar is the glib-tongued, smoothly self-controlled, young and handsome Vreldur, from Sembia, who’s continually chided by Ambra for his willingness to kiss and grope matronly diners who express an interest in him (Old Jhaer they joke with, but Vreldur they WANT). He may yet be dismissed - - or may become the only upstairs “Lord of the House” in the Purple Lady.
The sixteen Ladies of the House are a wide mixture of human (with one half-elf) women of all shapes and sizes. All enjoy sex, all have wardrobes and training that allow them to act with elegance in formal situations, and all of them love Ambra and try to get along like sisters with each other, regarding her more or less as their mother. Four of them are relatively inexperienced, and Ambra is “gentling” them into full roles.
The most beautiful among the Ladies is the tall, sleek, demure Nathelle, but the most popular is the wildest and most acrobatic, a muscular, young-looking, nipple-pierced and buttock-branded (left cheek, with a leaping dolphin) “nimble nymph” by the name of Lalurra (nickname among the staff only: “Lure-lass”). The sharp-tongued Narauntha can take the most abuse (pain, restraint, and endurance-testing activities) of all the Ladies, and is the busiest. Sharmra looks like a high-class lady, and can act the part, and has two loyal followings of clients: those who want to treat her as a high-class lady, and those who want to play at humiliating her as one.
Two of the Ladies look very much alike, and are sometimes requested by clients as “the Twins.” Both are lush-figured (and the same clothing size), short, bouncy brunettes who can adopt a “oh yes” eager manner in an instant, or plead for mercy “because they’ve been bad.” Their names are Maleira and Harbrenla.
So saith Ed, who figures he’s given you enough to spin a series of short stories.
Enjoy!
love,
THO
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Jamallo Kreen
Master of Realmslore
USA
1537 Posts |
Posted - 22 Sep 2005 : 00:43:22
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| What the heck wuz the black Yellow Snake Pass veil of "nothingness," anyway? What happened to people and things which entered / passed through it? Is it still there? |
I have a mouth, but I am in a library and must not scream.
Feed the poor and stroke your ego, too: http://www.freerice.com/index.php.
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore
5056 Posts |
Posted - 22 Sep 2005 : 03:39:56
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Hello again, fellow scribes. I bring divers little replies from Ed this time:
To Wooly Rupert: thanks for the VolosBG pdf. Much appreciated. Yes, aside from the purely game-mechanics-related material, almost all my own lore, but rewritten by someone else. Good to have as reference material.
Kajehase, Faraer has answered you prefectly: “incantatrixes aren't well enough understood to say why they're almost all women, though doubtless some sages have theories.” The Realms collectively just doesn’t know yet, and certainly no mortal character within it can have anything more than pet theories (though priests and sages may pretend otherwise).
Elrond Half Elven, you’re very welcome. I hope you continue to enjoy the Realms in the years ahead. The idea of the spheres wasn’t mine; it came from TSR, not just as a way to link their game settings, but also as a way to turn the focus of D&D at the time away from demons and devils (who would reappear as “baatezu” and “tanar’ri”) and the planes (that was the secret of the Arcane: to distract races into spelljaming whilst they tried to dominate the planes). As far as I (as an outsider, who talked with the two successive Marketing VPs of the time) understand it, the reasons for this were twofold: to be able to deny the “holy roller” evangelists of the time who liked to wave MONSTER MANUALS at television cameras and thunder: “The word ‘devil’ is in this book 87 times! The word ‘demon’ is in here 38 times!” (take them out, and then bring them back with different names, and you can simply respond that said evangelist is lying); and to give the R&D folks time to redesign the planes for the Planescape line.
And yes, Spelljammer certainly is fun-kooky. :}
Dargoth, the ease with which a character can track down a being in Faerûn who owns a copy of a “named” FR spell (e.g. Laeral’s Rapturous Caress or The Simbul’s Tonguelash) depends of course on the character and how they conduct their attempts to track folk down. Walking up to strangers who happen to be wizards and asking if they have a specific spell in their spellbooks usually enjoys about the same success rate as nerds achieve when they walk up to beautiful female strangers on busy streets and ask to sleep with them. :}
Ahem. However, to answer you another way: most of these spells would, in CCG terms, be “Uncommon” to “Rare” unless they are of very low level and non-harmful (i.e. can be used to enhance a ‘helpful’ reputation of those who use the Art, rather than being used as weapons). Such magics are usually distributed primarily through apprentices of the famous mages who crafted them, and then slowly spread through sales, thefts, and trades of magic. Joining the Watchful Order of Magists in Waterdeep would get you ready access to most of the non-combat ones, as would becoming a trusted Harper who ‘runs with’ the right NPC Harpers.
I’ll have more to say to you about Larloch, anon.
So saith Ed, the busiest man I know.
love,
THO
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 22 Sep 2005 : 04:27:44
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Ed,
Help us end this debate.
What would happen to Realmspace/Toril/Faerun if the Weave was completely destroyed or Mystra was and no deity replaced the Weave or her? You've hinted in the past but some posters need more then hints to get the clear picture. And is Chauntea more powerful then Mystra because Chauntea has a higher divine rank according to Faiths & Pantheons even though you've repeatedly said Mystra is more powerful.
I've also referenced Magic of Faerun where it discusses the Weave and that it resides in everything in Realmspace/Toril/Faerun but that passage was ignored by the posters who are argueing this. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
Edited by - Kuje on 22 Sep 2005 06:00:11 |
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Questions for Ed Greenwood (2005)
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