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Miraculixx
Acolyte
Germany
19 Posts |
 Posted - 13 Dec 2004 : 21:48:57
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Before everyone gets to hate me cause i posted this, lets think a bit back to the Time of Troubles.
As far as i know, the avatars of the gods are themselves(divine rank -10 plus the loose of some properties resulting from that)
To say truefully, i never played DnD in a gaming round(cause no one of my friends/girlfriends ever even heard of DnD(its a shame i know))
To come back to my question without being to far transported away, why does epic Attack bonus be the same for everyone(for example a fighter lvl 40 has 30 AB, a rogue lvl 40 has 25 AB, a Wizard lvl 40 has 20 AB(all seen without buffs, weapon focus, weapon specialisation, strength or dex modifiers)
YOu see the AB progresses until lvl 20 differently, but after lvl 20 each class gets the same AB (lvl above 20/2 which is +10AB for lvl 40 characters)
In my opinion, why doesnt AB progress with the lvls after lvl 20? For example a lvl 40 fighter has 40 AB, a rogue has 30 AB and a Wizard stays at 10 AB(a wizard normally doesnt attack with his staff ?)
On the other hand the epic spells lack the feature epic, hellball for example is a crap of a spell(4 elements damage 6d10 resulting in 60-240 damage with reflex save 0-120 damage)
Epic casters lack of a good damage spell in my opinion(archmage prestige class is a nice option to make spells like fireball dealing acid instead of fire damage) but that doesnt help to get the mage classes a very good damage spell.
The higher the enemy gets in lvls, the more weak a caster gets, cause his spells dont do enough damage(one nice spell i found out, flame arrow cast as archmage with shaping feat to deal acid damage, does 240 hp max damage, to a single target as a lvl 3 spell, which is more than lvl 9 spells do(for example power word death deals only 100 HP damage and kills then if the target has below 100 HP, not very Epic indeed)
What i want to reach with this posting?
Wanting that the gamedesigners/gamemasters/DM-Masters think about something, that players that achieved a high lvl, to make them real EPIC, not only a crippled above lvl 20 character.
greetings
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4695 Posts |
Posted - 13 Dec 2004 : 22:08:16
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quote:
Originally posted by Miraculixx
Before everyone gets to hate me cause i posted this, lets think a bit back to the Time of Troubles.
As far as i know, the avatars of the gods are themselves(divine rank -10 plus the loose of some properties resulting from that)
To come back to my question without being to far transported away, why does epic Attack bonus be the same for everyone(for example a fighter lvl 40 has 30 AB, a rogue lvl 40 has 25 AB, a Wizard lvl 40 has 20 AB(all seen without buffs, weapon focus, weapon specialisation, strength or dex modifiers)
YOu see the AB progresses until lvl 20 differently, but after lvl 20 each class gets the same AB (lvl above 20/2 which is +10AB for lvl 40 characters)
In my opinion, why doesnt AB progress with the lvls after lvl 20? For example a lvl 40 fighter has 40 AB, a rogue has 30 AB and a Wizard stays at 10 AB(a wizard normally doesnt attack with his staff ?)
What i want to reach with this posting?
Wanting that the gamedesigners/gamemasters/DM-Masters think about something, that players that achieved a high lvl, to make them real EPIC, not only a crippled above lvl 20 character.
greetings
Hi there, Welcome.
Avatars under 3.x are 1/2 of Divine rank of the deity round down, not a -10.
Epic rules follow a mode that came from prior Editions, that certain types of advancement gets slowed or removed totally. This certainly is clear in 2nd Edition high level book.
The effective higher then 9 level spells hold this limitation as does BAB and Saving Throw increase in part reflect this slowe advancement. Foe some the Saving Throw is an improvement , for all BAB in effect becomes advance as Wiz. This is a game artifact IMO.
What you might do is consult protions of the 3.5 SRD for more complete understanding of basic rules: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=d20/article/srd35 and consult Epic and Divine sections. While these might not answer your reasons as why progression has changed , it should provide you with the basic design plan. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
Posted - 14 Dec 2004 : 05:53:54
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I don't think you've really thought through some of the combinations you get when you become "epic." In many ways, epic levels are too over-powered. I think the brakes should have been put on the system when they started it. Some things work just fine, but there are more opportunities for game-damage after 20th level than before.
One other thing: if the ordinary base attack bonus progressed beyond 20th level, a 21st-level fighter would have five iterative attacks. Now, they could have said that no iterative attacks can be gained after level 20, but I don't mind this aspect. What I mind is, mainly, the sudden rule transfer from "ordinary hero" to "nigh-supernatural hero."
Regardless, I think wishing that epic levels would be more ubermunckinny is a bit over the top. |
Hell hath no fury like all of Candlekeep rising in defense of one of its own.
Download the brickfilm masterpiece by Leftfield Studios! See this page for more. |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4695 Posts |
Posted - 14 Dec 2004 : 06:25:46
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quote:
Originally posted by Bookwyrm
One other thing: if the ordinary base attack bonus progressed beyond 20th level, a 21st-level fighter would have five iterative attacks. Now, they could have said that no iterative attacks can be gained after level 20, but I don't mind this aspect.
I thought they said no more then four one handed attacks long before Epic long before Epic ws released. Seting two wepon fighting, did I miss something? |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
Posted - 14 Dec 2004 : 06:35:10
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| Rapid Shot, flurry of blows, to name two. |
Hell hath no fury like all of Candlekeep rising in defense of one of its own.
Download the brickfilm masterpiece by Leftfield Studios! See this page for more. |
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Miraculixx
Acolyte
Germany
19 Posts |
Posted - 14 Dec 2004 : 20:58:17
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Thanks for your answers fellow scribes, but that doesnt help me to stay close with the rule books.
I have read in different source books about monsters, that have 50-800 HD and an attack bonus of 100+(which is quite in fact higher than the gods of the forgotten realms)
So my question to Epic lvl feats stays as it is(Mage chars do too low damage, Divine chars cant hope to get the attention of their deity(cause the enemy is so strong that it would kill the Deity), fighter class chars cant even scratch it.
I put an example of such an enemy tomorrow(too tired right now to search it out) |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4695 Posts |
Posted - 14 Dec 2004 : 21:33:30
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quote:
Originally posted by Miraculixx
I have read in different source books about monsters, that have 50-800 HD and an attack bonus of 100+(which is quite in fact higher than the gods of the forgotten realms)
So my question to Epic lvl feats stays as it is(Mage chars do too low damage, Divine chars cant hope to get the attention of their deity(cause the enemy is so strong that it would kill the Deity), fighter class chars cant even scratch it.
I put an example of such an enemy tomorrow(too tired right now to search it out)
As for example look to Dragon their BAB continue to advance 1 point per level after level 20. One can argue game design is flawed or that EPic rules do not apply to at least some monsters.
One thing is clear that no individual can take on very high HD monsters. In the past some complained that Dragons were to easy to kill. In this edition they certainly are much harder to kill. Perhaps the balance is there, however I am not a dragon slayer (in fact try to stay out of their way). |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
Posted - 14 Dec 2004 : 21:44:31
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| I don't care what the stats of gods are. Statting them in the first place was a mistake. Besides, power level isn't everything. Don't make the mistake of thinking otherwise. |
Hell hath no fury like all of Candlekeep rising in defense of one of its own.
Download the brickfilm masterpiece by Leftfield Studios! See this page for more. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36910 Posts |
Posted - 14 Dec 2004 : 22:48:26
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quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal
In the past some complained that Dragons were to easy to kill. In this edition they certainly are much harder to kill.
Sure dragons are easy to kill, no matter the edition -- unless the DM plays them intelligently. Under 2E rules, a dragon could be quite deadly, if the DM handled it right. The same goes for many other creatures, and the edition doesn't matter.
quote:
Originally posted by Bookwyrm
I don't care what the stats of gods are. Statting them in the first place was a mistake.
I fully concur with this statement. Statting them out did nothing but waste page space, space that could have been devoted to more lore. |
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Arivia
Great Reader
Canada
2965 Posts |
Posted - 16 Dec 2004 : 07:01:24
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quote:
Originally posted by Miraculixx
To come back to my question without being to far transported away, why does epic Attack bonus be the same for everyone(for example a fighter lvl 40 has 30 AB, a rogue lvl 40 has 25 AB, a Wizard lvl 40 has 20 AB(all seen without buffs, weapon focus, weapon specialisation, strength or dex modifiers)
YOu see the AB progresses until lvl 20 differently, but after lvl 20 each class gets the same AB (lvl above 20/2 which is +10AB for lvl 40 characters)
In my opinion, why doesnt AB progress with the lvls after lvl 20? For example a lvl 40 fighter has 40 AB, a rogue has 30 AB and a Wizard stays at 10 AB(a wizard normally doesnt attack with his staff ?)
Read the book. It explains why.
quote:
On the other hand the epic spells lack the feature epic, hellball for example is a crap of a spell(4 elements damage 6d10 resulting in 60-240 damage with reflex save 0-120 damage)
Mmhmm. 240 damage in one spell. Really crappy. Wouldn't waste a first level spell slot on that, no no no.
quote:
Epic casters lack of a good damage spell in my opinion(archmage prestige class is a nice option to make spells like fireball dealing acid instead of fire damage) but that doesnt help to get the mage classes a very good damage spell.
The higher the enemy gets in lvls, the more weak a caster gets, cause his spells dont do enough damage(one nice spell i found out, flame arrow cast as archmage with shaping feat to deal acid damage, does 240 hp max damage, to a single target as a lvl 3 spell, which is more than lvl 9 spells do(for example power word death deals only 100 HP damage and kills then if the target has below 100 HP, not very Epic indeed)
 (What's this guy on again? Delusions of grandeur infusions?)
quote:
What i want to reach with this posting?
Wanting that the gamedesigners/gamemasters/DM-Masters think about something, that players that achieved a high lvl, to make them real EPIC, not only a crippled above lvl 20 character.
Yeah, sure. Please stop powergaming. D&D's balance is quite different from that of a computer game, and I hope you realize that. |
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Alparon
Seeker
Turkey
67 Posts |
Posted - 17 Dec 2004 : 09:46:03
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it is indeed different from a computer game
but;
one can never proceed to epic levels(in my own games)
plus
the book containing the statistics and all the other stuff about the epic levels is not present in Turkey(at least haven't seen one) |
I am Cyric, the One and the All, God of Murder and Intrigue, Patron of Deception and Chaos, Prince of Lies, the Dark Sun, rightful Lord of the Dead, Cyric-on-a-stick, and known to some as "the Mad God." I welcome you to The Land of the Dead... |
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Miraculixx
Acolyte
Germany
19 Posts |
Posted - 17 Dec 2004 : 14:43:04
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[quote]
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Miraculixx
To come back to my question without being to far transported away, why does epic Attack bonus be the same for everyone(for example a fighter lvl 40 has 30 AB, a rogue lvl 40 has 25 AB, a Wizard lvl 40 has 20 AB(all seen without buffs, weapon focus, weapon specialisation, strength or dex modifiers)
YOu see the AB progresses until lvl 20 differently, but after lvl 20 each class gets the same AB (lvl above 20/2 which is +10AB for lvl 40 characters)
In my opinion, why doesnt AB progress with the lvls after lvl 20? For example a lvl 40 fighter has 40 AB, a rogue has 30 AB and a Wizard stays at 10 AB(a wizard normally doesnt attack with his staff ?)
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Read the book. It explains why.
I have read the manual, i have it here in bookform, but it doesnt explain why
[quote]
quote:
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On the other hand the epic spells lack the feature epic, hellball for example is a crap of a spell(4 elements damage 6d10 resulting in 60-240 damage with reflex save 0-120 damage)
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Mmhmm. 240 damage in one spell. Really crappy. Wouldn't waste a first level spell slot on that, no no no.
quote:
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Epic casters lack of a good damage spell in my opinion(archmage prestige class is a nice option to make spells like fireball dealing acid instead of fire damage) but that doesnt help to get the mage classes a very good damage spell.
The higher the enemy gets in lvls, the more weak a caster gets, cause his spells dont do enough damage(one nice spell i found out, flame arrow cast as archmage with shaping feat to deal acid damage, does 240 hp max damage, to a single target as a lvl 3 spell, which is more than lvl 9 spells do(for example power word death deals only 100 HP damage and kills then if the target has below 100 HP, not very Epic indeed)
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(What's this guy on again? Delusions of grandeur infusions?)
You say Hellball is nice?
You should read until the end of my posting, where I said, that a maximized lvl3 spell(flamearrow) does the same amount of damage as the lvl 10(epic spell) hellball.
So i think i am right, when i say hellball isnt an epic spell at all(in comparison)
Another good example is ice storm(lvl 4 or 5 spell) which deals bludegeon and cold damage and has no maximum lvl <-> the higher you get the more powerful this spell is.
Wail of the Banshee and Finger of Death and Destruction are my favourite spells(because they dont care about about Hit Dice) and kill outright, in my opinion much better than doing a dice roll damage)
[qoute]
quote:
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What i want to reach with this posting?
Wanting that the gamedesigners/gamemasters/DM-Masters think about something, that players that achieved a high lvl, to make them real EPIC, not only a crippled above lvl 20 character.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah, sure. Please stop powergaming. D&D's balance is quite different from that of a computer game, and I hope you realize that.
Sure i realized that, but what then about monsters/devils/demons which have stats that an epic lvl group of lvl 40+ cant beat?
Then why are these epic monsters described with stats/equipment/spells etc....
For example the Demon princes: Demogorgon/Orcus/Graz'zt etc...
Answer me that Arivia, and then i start thinking about your comments |
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Mystery_Man
Senior Scribe
USA
455 Posts |
Posted - 17 Dec 2004 : 16:07:30
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| If we're going to be viscious we should take this to the WoTC forums. This is not the place to harrangue each other over this yo! |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4695 Posts |
Posted - 17 Dec 2004 : 16:23:38
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Well got going to get into the tech asspects, if you two want to go ahead where it is proper.
What I will say is there was play testing, so perhaps the balance got out of adjustments.
One thing the PCs do have going for them that most monsters do not are all those shiny toys which might serve to balance the better BAB of the monsters, with Epic ceration that sword and that armor can become very powerful. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Arivia
Great Reader
Canada
2965 Posts |
Posted - 17 Dec 2004 : 17:14:11
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quote:
plus
the book containing the statistics and all the other stuff about the epic levels is not present in Turkey(at least haven't seen one)
Then you shouldn't even be touching it. The ELH is required to run an epic game-it's just that simple.
quote:
I have read the manual, i have it here in bookform, but it doesnt explain why
First of all, please stick to the formatting tools provided with the forum. Using them makes your posts easier to understand and respond to. Next, yes, it does. I can't point out specific page numbers right now(don't have it at hand), but it clearly explains that the reason epic save and attack bonuses progress at the same amount is to prevent exactly what you provided in your example-when it is possible for a character strong at a specific task to nearly-always succeed at that task, and for a character weak at that task to nearly-always fail at it.
quote:
You say Hellball is nice?
You should read until the end of my posting, where I said, that a maximized lvl3 spell(flamearrow)
Okay, I haven't looked at the 3.0 version of flame arrow in quite awhile, but IIRC, the effect is capped at 5d4. Which is nowhere near the same amount of damage, even maximized.
quote:
So i think i am right, when i say hellball isnt an epic spell at all(in comparison)
You see, I'm calling you a powergamer because you are one-you're thinking in terms of power above all else.
quote:
Another good example is ice storm(lvl 4 or 5 spell) which deals bludegeon and cold damage and has no maximum lvl <-> the higher you get the more powerful this spell is.
Umm..no.
Ice storm has no level cap on the damage dealt...because caster level doesn't modify the damage that spell does. I think you're factoring something into damage that isn't supposed to be.
quote:
Wail of the Banshee and Finger of Death and Destruction are my favourite spells(because they dont care about about Hit Dice) and kill outright, in my opinion much better than doing a dice roll damage)
Again, you're thinking in terms of power above all else. And you do know Wail of the Banshee affects everyone around you-such as other party members?
quote:
Sure i realized that, but what then about monsters/devils/demons which have stats that an epic lvl group of lvl 40+ cant beat?
Then why are these epic monsters described with stats/equipment/spells etc....
For example the Demon princes: Demogorgon/Orcus/Graz'zt etc...
Answer me that Arivia, and then i start thinking about your comments
I'm sorry, but I can't understand(hence, respond to) a question as poorly worded as this. Adding punctuation might help too. Just because you're online doesn't mean you can let the rules of the English language go. |
Edited by - Arivia on 18 Dec 2004 10:51:03 |
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Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
Posted - 18 Dec 2004 : 10:14:50
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quote:
Originally posted by Elf_Friend
If we're going to be viscious we should take this to the WoTC forums. This is not the place to harrangue each other over this yo!
Well, "yo," I think this is a completely valid response to take to a, frankly, stupid concept. This member has not fully thought things through, which is what Arivia is pointing out. He has not directly insulted Miraculixx in any way, unless you count the use of the term 'powergaming' and the reference to 'delusions of grandeur,' both of which are quite accurate.
Arivia, the 3e flame arrow doesn't have a level cap; I think you're mistaking it with burning hands, or that's my conclusion based on you saying it capped at 5d4.
However, the actual spell creates one missile per four levels, which deal 4d6 damage each. I don't see how Miraculixx got his numbers from that. (Regardless, it's a ranged touch spell that deals only fire damage, while hellball requires no attack roll and deals four types of energy damage, though flame arrow can be used at somewhat greater range.) |
Hell hath no fury like all of Candlekeep rising in defense of one of its own.
Download the brickfilm masterpiece by Leftfield Studios! See this page for more. |
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Arivia
Great Reader
Canada
2965 Posts |
Posted - 18 Dec 2004 : 11:00:07
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quote:
Arivia, the 3e flame arrow doesn't have a level cap; I think you're mistaking it with burning hands, or that's my conclusion based on you saying it capped at 5d4.
As I said, it was "if I recall correctly". So my recollections must have been wrong. 
quote:
However, the actual spell creates one missile per four levels, which deal 4d6 damage each. I don't see how Miraculixx got his numbers from that. (Regardless, it's a ranged touch spell that deals only fire damage, while hellball requires no attack roll and deals four types of energy damage, though flame arrow can be used at somewhat greater range.)
And the fact that hellball is a area-effect spell. I'm sure if one of us cared to go ahead and apply the damage optimization rules from Sword and Fist to this situation, it would tell us hellball does more.
Oh, and that part of the ELH where they explain why epic saves and attacks are like that? The sidebar on page 7. The one that takes up half the page. |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4695 Posts |
Posted - 18 Dec 2004 : 12:22:07
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quote:
Originally posted by Bookwyrm
Rapid Shot, flurry of blows, to name two.
In reference to 4 attack limit.
Yes Rapid shot provides one extra attack and flurry can provide two extra attacks (after level 11). Niether however allow basic full attack to be greater then 4, no matter what the BAB is.
Excepting of course monsters that have more then 4 attacks to begin with or aquired though advancement. Also of course an extra attack can be aquired by taking monter feats like Multweapon fihjting.
Actually one does not need the feat for that extra attack, just it makes it much easier to use "off-hand" or extra attack. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Mystery_Man
Senior Scribe
USA
455 Posts |
Posted - 18 Dec 2004 : 14:38:16
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The only thing flame arrow does is add 1d6 fire damage to a projectile.
I hardly see how this compares to a Hellball. Hellball is the epic equivalent of a fireball anyway. By the time you get that high in levels the amount of damage you can avoid is about the same.
quote:
Well, "yo," I think this is a completely valid response to take to a, frankly, stupid concept. This member has not fully thought things through, which is what Arivia is pointing out. He has not directly insulted Miraculixx in any way, unless you count the use of the term 'powergaming' and the reference to 'delusions of grandeur,' both of which are quite accurate.
MY point was that it's rare to see this kind of sniping on this forum while it's perfectly normal to see it somewhere like say, ENworld or WoTC. More so directed to the new guy. |
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Arivia
Great Reader
Canada
2965 Posts |
Posted - 18 Dec 2004 : 22:24:04
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quote:
Originally posted by Elf_Friend
The only thing flame arrow does is add 1d6 fire damage to a projectile.
If you're looking at the 3.5 version. Miraculixx was looking at the 3.0 version.
quote:
MY point was that it's rare to see this kind of sniping on this forum while it's perfectly normal to see it somewhere like say, ENworld or WoTC. More so directed to the new guy.
You obviously haven't read that many of my posts here, then, have you? I've done much worse in other places, but I don't do so here out of respect for Alaundo and my fellow scribes. And it really isn't that rare here-we just don't get people like Miraculixx here that often. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36910 Posts |
Posted - 19 Dec 2004 : 02:49:03
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| I think this topic has been adequately covered, now. Let's let this scroll sit on a shelf and collect dust, okay? |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
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Alaundo
Head Moderator
United Kingdom
5696 Posts |
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Miraculixx
Acolyte
Germany
19 Posts |
Posted - 19 Dec 2004 : 19:39:40
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Thank you Alaundo and Wooly Rupert(you are both right with the saying, let the scroll sink down).
I didnt wanted with my posting to reach mischief or to appear unfriendly at all(that wasnt my goal and wouldnt be ever in the future).
Arivia was right in some points,maybe my question wasnt posted correctly, maybe i am an idiot, maybe i didnt ask especially enough.
But this one was a hard one
[quote]
quote:
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Sure i realized that, but what then about monsters/devils/demons which have stats that an epic lvl group of lvl 40+ cant beat?
Then why are these epic monsters described with stats/equipment/spells etc....
For example the Demon princes: Demogorgon/Orcus/Graz'zt etc...
Answer me that Arivia, and then i start thinking about your comments
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I'm sorry, but I can't understand(hence, respond to) a question as poorly worded as this. Adding punctuation might help too. Just because you're online doesn't mean you can let the rules of the English language go.
[quote/]
First: If i cant quote, blame me(in german forums it is quoted as i do)
Second: If Arivia couldnt understand me in english, I would ask her/him in german, and see if he/she does understand something at all.
Third: If Germans are so hated here, perhaps its better not to post here anymore(Alaundo not your fault, your Website is good, but its dependent from the users)
Fourth: I wont post any more topics/replies/answers here, so you can say, you have lost an german user(for most users of this board i am quite sure they are quite happy)
I wish all users here a very happy X-Mas and a happy new Year |
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Mystery_Man
Senior Scribe
USA
455 Posts |
Posted - 19 Dec 2004 : 19:58:51
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Hey, firstly nobody here is making an issue out of being from Germany but you. Secondly, you shouldn't have to apologize for it just let everyone know that English is a second language for you. I never bothered to see where you were from.
I'm actually having a hard time understanding what it is you're looking for. Are you looking for advice on how to better integrate the Epic Level Handbook into a Realms campaign? Advice on running epic levels? Be sure to state which set of rules you're using also! Those sort of things are very helpful.
With epic magic (IMO) buffing spells and summoning spells are the way to go. Being able to summon 10 adult red dragons to fight for you is much better than casting a hellball that any epic rogue with evasion that can crawl up its own butt can avoid is a waste of everyone's time.
So anyway, try again.  |
Edited by - Mystery_Man on 19 Dec 2004 20:00:00 |
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Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
Posted - 19 Dec 2004 : 20:56:37
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Crying "Discrimination!" might work with the ACLU, but you're quite off the mark here. This is like saying to someone "You don't agree with me, but it's not because I had unfounded conclusions, it's because I'm left-handed" or some other crazy idea.
I didn't even notice that you were from Germany until now. Would you like to know why? It's because I don't care. It doesn't matter where you're from. All I cared about was that you obviously didn't speak English well, and I only cared about that because it meant I'd be careful in communicating with you so that you could translate my words well.
Of course, if you try to make this a discrimination issue, you'll simply loose respect in my eyes. Before, you were someone who simply had not thought things through. Now, you're in danger of being a complete idiot in my book. We've gone through this before with another member, and I didn't let him get away with it either.
Your choice. |
Hell hath no fury like all of Candlekeep rising in defense of one of its own.
Download the brickfilm masterpiece by Leftfield Studios! See this page for more. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36910 Posts |
Posted - 20 Dec 2004 : 03:50:41
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quote:
Originally posted by Miraculixx
Third: If Germans are so hated here, perhaps its better not to post here anymore(Alaundo not your fault, your Website is good, but its dependent from the users)
Fourth: I wont post any more topics/replies/answers here, so you can say, you have lost an german user(for most users of this board i am quite sure they are quite happy)
I wish all users here a very happy X-Mas and a happy new Year
No one is discriminated against here. In fact, this is one of the friendlier forums I've found.
No one is saying you have to leave and/or that you can't post here. I'm sure it wasn't anyone's intention to drive you away. Please, stick around a while longer... |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Epic Lvl's feats and spells to weak?
