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Shayan
Acolyte
Australia
25 Posts |
 Posted - 07 Nov 2004 : 10:15:28
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Perhaps it is my innocence, or my ignorance but I have never quite understood why Selune is only an Intermediate power, whilst Shar remains a Greater god. Wasn't the Timeless battle between the deities even handed?
Even if it was not you would "expect" the Ancient Mother to be of a considerable force... to be more than be grouped with the likes of Gond, and Helm. 
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Mumadar Ibn Huzal
Master of Realmslore
1338 Posts |
Posted - 07 Nov 2004 : 15:31:17
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Just apply the natural cycles of the moon to Selune's status. She is a moon goddess after all. She hasn't always been an intermediate power, but also lesser and greater.
Can't recal of the top of my head where it is written, but some FR product describes this process or mentions it. |
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Steven Schend
Forgotten Realms Designer & Author
USA
1715 Posts |
Posted - 07 Nov 2004 : 17:36:42
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Julia Martin and I came up with this during her edit/development of Faiths & Avatars way back in the TSR days....
We'd been discussing the Shar/Selune war and needed a reason for why Selune's power level was less than Shar's if theirs was the primal conflict of light vs. dark. That's when we came up with Mystra's origin. Mystra was born willingly of Selune sacrificing a lot of her power to create a separate god(dess) of magic, and apparently Shar had some power torn from her as well in the process (but held onto enough that she could later create the Shadow Weave, a later retcon).
In any case, the primary reason Selune's not as big as her dark twin sister (as I recall, anyways) is that she willingly parted with much of her power to create a balancing force that would also help protect Chauntea and the life she created on Toril from Shar's excesses.
Steven |
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Mumadar Ibn Huzal
Master of Realmslore
1338 Posts |
Posted - 07 Nov 2004 : 18:17:22
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I seem to recall that somewhere - maybe in Faiths & Avatars - it was stated that Selune served Sune for some time, but now waxing in her power has gone her own seperate way...
I'm going of the top of my head here and hope I'm not mixing goddesses... |
Edited by - Mumadar Ibn Huzal on 07 Nov 2004 18:22:32 |
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Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
Posted - 08 Nov 2004 : 08:14:24
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| Nope, you got it right. Except for the "waxing in her power" bit -- it doesn't say her power level has changed. Just that for a long time she was on her own, then she served Sune for a few centuries, and after the Time of Troubles she's back on her own way (but still on very good terms with Sune). |
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Shayan
Acolyte
Australia
25 Posts |
Posted - 28 Nov 2004 : 12:44:15
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On the topic of ToT ...
Another little question about Selune: Is there any mention of what she did during ToT (or where she appeared) in any of the cannon? |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 28 Nov 2004 : 14:19:31
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quote:
Originally posted by Shayan
On the topic of ToT ...
Another little question about Selune: Is there any mention of what she did during ToT (or where she appeared) in any of the cannon?
Oh yes! Selūne was in the comic Advanced Dungeons & Dragons, in the guise of a human barkeep named Luna. She ran a tavern called Selūne's Smile in Waterdeep's Dock Ward. She was there when the Time of Troubles began.
Shar descended to Waterdeep, and claimed that she was Selūne. She took up residence in the House of the Moon in Waterdeep, and started gathering followers. Luna was of course a bit confused by someone claiming to be her and taking up residence in her temple.
Luna wound up falling under the false Selūne's control, and was brainwashed into thinking that the chic claiming to be Selūne really was. Luna's friends came to the rescue and helped her regain her senses. The two goddesses battled, and the real Selūne was victorious.
It wasn't in the comic, but I seem to recall that Shar fled into the Underdark. 'Twas there that she slew a minor deity named Ibrandul, and assumed his portfolio.
All but that last part was in the four-part story arc "Phases of the Moon." I believe it was around issues 19-23, but I'd have to check.
For more info about what the deities were doing during the Time of Troubles, look here.
Edit: Waterdeep is apparently a popular place among deities! Selūne was already there when the ToT began, Shar showed up there, Siamorphe put in a minor appearance there, Ibrandul was under the city... That's four deities right there. And of course Myrkul and Mask went there later, and let's not forget that even Ao showed up in Waterdeep...  |
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Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 28 Nov 2004 14:28:13 |
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DDH_101
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1272 Posts |
Posted - 28 Nov 2004 : 17:50:41
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| Wooly, you forgot Helm. His appearance was important as it gave a boost in morale to the troops of Waterdeep against the fiends. |
"Trust in the shadows, for the bright way makes you an easy target." -Mask |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 28 Nov 2004 : 23:45:35
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quote:
Originally posted by DDH_101
Wooly, you forgot Helm. His appearance was important as it gave a boost in morale to the troops of Waterdeep against the fiends.
Did I? It's been a long time since I read that trilogy, because it's far from being one of my faves...
Besides, it's Helm. I find him eminently forgettable. |
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DDH_101
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1272 Posts |
Posted - 29 Nov 2004 : 01:35:31
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| Ya, Helm is a pretty boring deity. Nothing special about him as he takes things too seriously and never does anything interesting... Mask, there's an interesting deity! Always up to something devious and intriguing... |
"Trust in the shadows, for the bright way makes you an easy target." -Mask |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 29 Nov 2004 : 01:51:02
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quote:
Originally posted by DDH_101
Ya, Helm is a pretty boring deity. Nothing special about him as he takes things too seriously and never does anything interesting... Mask, there's an interesting deity! Always up to something devious and intriguing...
Indeed! I have never seen anything I considered interesting about Helm, save for the fact he had a lover who was killed during the Dawn Cataclysm. And even that's not a whole lot. |
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Shayan
Acolyte
Australia
25 Posts |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 29 Nov 2004 : 03:22:28
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quote:
Originally posted by Shayan
Thanks Wooly, great info!
Not a prob! I am a huge fan of the comics, and I enjoy sharing info from them. |
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DDH_101
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1272 Posts |
Posted - 29 Nov 2004 : 04:41:57
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by DDH_101
Ya, Helm is a pretty boring deity. Nothing special about him as he takes things too seriously and never does anything interesting... Mask, there's an interesting deity! Always up to something devious and intriguing...
Indeed! I have never seen anything I considered interesting about Helm, save for the fact he had a lover who was killed during the Dawn Cataclysm. And even that's not a whole lot.
A lover? Care to expand on that? The only thing I know that Helm loves is his "shiny" armour and bastard sword... |
"Trust in the shadows, for the bright way makes you an easy target." -Mask |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 29 Nov 2004 : 05:36:14
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quote:
Originally posted by DDH_101
A lover? Care to expand on that? The only thing I know that Helm loves is his "shiny" armour and bastard sword...
Page 38 of Faiths & Pantheons (that poor shadow to the three 2E deity books) mentions this. In the last paragraph of the first column, it mentions that during the Dawn Cataclysm, Lathander indirectly caused the destruction of Helm's lover, Murdane, a lesser deity of pragmatism and reason. The Watchful Boring Guy hasn't been too happy with ol' Lathie ever since. |
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Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 29 Nov 2004 05:39:18 |
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DDH_101
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1272 Posts |
Posted - 29 Nov 2004 : 06:05:25
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Murdane? Never heard of her...
So are her portfolios in Lathander's hands now? |
"Trust in the shadows, for the bright way makes you an easy target." -Mask |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 29 Nov 2004 : 10:36:00
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quote:
Originally posted by DDH_101
Murdane? Never heard of her...
So are her portfolios in Lathander's hands now?
I believe that that's the only reference to Murdane. As for her portfolios, I think those are just kinda out there, untouched and unclaimed. |
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Xysma
Master of Realmslore
USA
1089 Posts |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 08 Dec 2004 : 23:02:58
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quote:
Originally posted by Xysma
Whoa! What's with all the hostility toward Helm? He's a great deity for Paladins to worship, oh wait a minute, that's boring. He never shirks his duty... oops boring. Ok, you guys are right, but he did kill the crap out of Mystra, that was cool.
Not if you like Mystra! |
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Capn Charlie
Senior Scribe
USA
418 Posts |
Posted - 08 Dec 2004 : 23:20:16
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And helmites don't have a sense of humour, either. I mean, all we did was paint all their helmets purple, sovereign glue helm holy symbols to them, and sing "we are the one eyed purple helmed warriors" a few times. It wasn't like we actually DID anything illegal or nothin...
I mean, give or take. |
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Shayan
Acolyte
Australia
25 Posts |
Posted - 09 Dec 2004 : 01:49:09
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Xysma
Whoa! What's with all the hostility toward Helm? He's a great deity for Paladins to worship, oh wait a minute, that's boring. He never shirks his duty... oops boring. Ok, you guys are right, but he did kill the crap out of Mystra, that was cool.
Not if you like Mystra!
If I had my way, Mystra and her chosen will become permanent residents of the City of Dead. And then I will her her porfolios to...
hmm let's see...
...ah yes: Helm!
Now that will spice him up for ya!
but alas... it is not so...  |
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Edited by - Shayan on 09 Dec 2004 01:50:31 |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 09 Dec 2004 : 05:43:59
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quote:
Originally posted by Xysma
Ok, you guys are right, but he did kill the crap out of Mystra, that was cool.
Yeah and according to Faiths and Avatars he's been paying for that and other ToT actions ever since. |
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RevJest
Learned Scribe
USA
115 Posts |
Posted - 22 Apr 2005 : 09:46:12
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I remember Helm's actions in the Moonshaes. Color me unimpressed. I wouldn't mind Helm taking an astral nap, and Torm picking up guardianship as a portfolio. I'd trust Torm a heck of a lot more than I ever would Helm.
- RJ
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 22 Apr 2005 : 16:55:12
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quote:
Originally posted by RevJest
I remember Helm's actions in the Moonshaes. Color me unimpressed. I wouldn't mind Helm taking an astral nap, and Torm picking up guardianship as a portfolio. I'd trust Torm a heck of a lot more than I ever would Helm.
- RJ
His clergy did even worse in Maztica. :( |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31772 Posts |
Posted - 23 Apr 2005 : 07:39:33
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Helmite faith is a difficult faith to respond to, specifically. The role of the guardian can form the backbone of lawful or evil domains and realms. It is just as likely for the role of a Helmite guardian to have significant negative impact on neighbouring lands as it is positive.
The Helmite experiences in Maztica were simply an example of the more negative motive.
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Edited by - The Sage on 23 Apr 2005 07:40:41 |
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khorne
Master of Realmslore
Finland
1073 Posts |
Posted - 23 Apr 2005 : 15:39:46
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quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlack
quote:
Originally posted by Xysma
Ok, you guys are right, but he did kill the crap out of Mystra, that was cool.
Yeah and according to Faiths and Avatars he's been paying for that and other ToT actions ever since.
He`s been paying for doing the job Ao gave him? |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 23 Apr 2005 : 15:48:24
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quote:
Originally posted by khorne
He`s been paying for doing the job Ao gave him?
Yep, first paragraph in his Faiths & Avatars write up makes that clear. |
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Kajehase
Great Reader
Sweden
2104 Posts |
Posted - 23 Apr 2005 : 20:38:48
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quote:
Originally posted by khorne
He`s been paying for doing the job Ao gave him?
One god's doing the job Ao gave him is a couple of billion humans' killing off the goddess of magic, causing a plague of general mayhem and disorderliness. |
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Jamallo Kreen
Master of Realmslore
USA
1537 Posts |
Posted - 08 Jun 2005 : 05:01:10
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by DDH_101
Murdane? Never heard of her...
So are her portfolios in Lathander's hands now?
I believe that that's the only reference to Murdane. As for her portfolios, I think those are just kinda out there, untouched and unclaimed.
Well that explains A LOT! I have wondered why Giants (of all the inexplicable races) have a deity of philosophy, but the humans of Faerun don't. Obviously it's a bad luck portfolio for humans: "Be Deity of Philosophy and die." |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 08 Jun 2005 : 05:49:41
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quote:
Originally posted by khorne
quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlack
quote:
Originally posted by Xysma
Ok, you guys are right, but he did kill the crap out of Mystra, that was cool.
Yeah and according to Faiths and Avatars he's been paying for that and other ToT actions ever since.
He`s been paying for doing the job Ao gave him?
It's kinda like how it is with police officers... We like them when they catch dangerous criminals. We're not so fond of them when we get pulled over for speeding... |
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DDH_101
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1272 Posts |
Posted - 08 Jun 2005 : 05:51:11
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I could see the portfolio of philosophy fall into the hands of gods like Deneir or Oghma. It would certainly attract to them a whole different group of worshipers.
However, these two gods are probably the least-power hungry of the deities of FR so it's not too likely either of them will go claim it. |
"Trust in the shadows, for the bright way makes you an easy target." -Mask |
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Shar and Selune
