| Author |
 Topic  |
|
SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
 Posted - 15 Nov 2004 : 01:41:52
|
To paraphrase a line from Scream 2, SiriusBlack reads his Entertainment Weekly and knows his stuff. Thus, he was able to find the following in a recent issue:
quote:
Two for 'Two'
Completing the adventure of dark elf Drizzt Do'Urden (we don't know how to pronounce his name either) is fantasy writer R.A. Salvatore's The Two Swords, the final book in his Forgotten Realms: Hunter's Blade trilogy, which debuts at No. 2 on this week's fiction chart.
Congrats to the author. |
Edited by - SiriusBlack on 15 Nov 2004 01:43:00 |
 |
|
|
BobROE
Learned Scribe
Canada
106 Posts |
Posted - 16 Nov 2004 : 03:48:07
|
| Do we know when this is assumed to take place? I'm thinking prior to the creation of the Silver Marches. Cause I think this book leads nicely into a book about the creation of the Silver Marches, and the pushing back of the orc horde. |
|
|
|
Arion Elenim
Senior Scribe
933 Posts |
Posted - 19 Nov 2004 : 16:58:08
|
Wow guys...seems like we were reading two different novels...
I don't recall Drizzt losing a single battle. I recall him running away from Obould after their first entanglement - but Drizzt still "won" that one...a point that even Obould admits to in the end, when Drizzt talks about the orc king's impenetrable armor...a dragon couldn't have gotten through that...and STILL, Drizzt almost killed him. Also his "paralyzation" after seeing Obould for the first time seemed to me to be a reaction to the fact that even if he slew Obould, he would massacred by the orcs seconds later.
I think you guys might be confusing Drizzt's willingness to make tactical retreats as "losses".
I loved this work. I thought that is was a MUCH more cohesive and engrossing novel than Thousand Orcs, and almost as engaging as Lone Drow.
And why is everyone complaining that RAS didn't kill everyone? I think there are much better examples of authors who refuse to change ANYTHING about their characters or places than RAS.
We now have:
An entire orc kingdom vieing for recognition
A Bruenor with a savior complex who is clammoring to go after ANOTHER mythical dwarven stronghold
A broken Wulfgar with a dead wife and resurging feelings for Cattie-Brie (see his reaction to CB and Drizzt in the last chapter)
A Pikel with a severed hand (perhaps fixed by Cadderly...we'll see)
A dead General Dagna
An alliance with the Frost Giants (FROST GIANTS, PEOPLE! IT DON'T GET MUCH WIERDER THAN THAT!)
A still unsolved question brought forth by Tos'Un asking if Drizzt has the favor Lloth (thus his successes in his campaigns against the drow) - anyone notice that Lloth's magic was the final key that allowed Drizzt to get at Obould's skin (see the final battle - spider clasps = bad news...)?
And my favorite little cliff hanger, the fact that Cutter is now in the hands of a drow that it deems "worthy". This wouldn't matter except that Drizzt had wielded the blade less than a few hours earlier, which MAY mean that Cutter believes his new wielder a MATCH FOR DRIZZT!!!!! We may have a new arch nemesis, folks!!!
Personally, I really enjoyed this work. It has taken us in a entirely new direction - tied off a lot of old loose ends and given the characters new and worthwhile goals to attain. I cannot wait for the next series. Bravo, Ras. Bravo.
|
My latest Realms-based short story, about a bard, a paladin of Lathander and the letter of the law, Debts Repaid. It takes place before the "shattering" and gives the bard Arion a last gasp before he plunges into the present.http://candlekeep.com/campaign/logs/log-debts.htm |
|
|
|
Effect
Acolyte
USA
18 Posts |
Posted - 19 Nov 2004 : 17:44:03
|
I'm curious. Exactly how does Wulfgar's wife Delly die? Sad to hear that she does die and that it seems his thoughts were elsewhere at the time(fighting and on CB). :(
Also is it true that one of the characters from the Forgotten Realms: Demon Stone game appears in The Two Swords? I remember hearing that was going to happen since the story for the game was also writen by RAS. |
Edited by - Effect on 19 Nov 2004 18:19:48 |
|
|
|
R0GUE
Seeker
USA
54 Posts |
Posted - 20 Nov 2004 : 16:01:03
|
| Delly died because Kazid-Hea (Cutter) possessed her mind while CB was sick and so Delly felt obsessed to take the sword and leave Mithral Hall (which she was going to leave anyhow). Then the sword threatened to make Delly kill Colson unless she ran off into the wilderness. Delly managed to hand Delly off to the other lady (forget her name) who was acting as Colson's nanny sort of, and then ran off into the woods, where Cutter directed her into a horde of orcs, who slaughtered her easily. Cutter's ultimate goal was to get into the hands of a more effective/more bloodthirsty wielder, particularly Obould, but instead found itself in the hands of one of the remaining dark elves. |
You have had your pocket pilfered by the R0GUE.  |
|
|
|
Effect
Acolyte
USA
18 Posts |
Posted - 20 Nov 2004 : 17:29:05
|
| Thanks. How does Wulfgar, Drizzt and the others react to this? Do they find out this happens to her? Does Wulfgar feel anything or is he to hung up on CB to even care? |
Edited by - Effect on 20 Nov 2004 17:33:55 |
|
|
|
Alaundo
Head Moderator
United Kingdom
5695 Posts |
Posted - 20 Nov 2004 : 17:56:07
|
quote:
Originally posted by Effect
Thanks. How does Wulfgar, Drizzt and the others react to this? Do they find out this happens to her? Does Wulfgar feel anything or is he to hung up on CB to even care?
Well met
I think it would be best if thee read the tome thyself, Effect  I must say I wasn't too impressed myself at first, but it did pick up about half way through the tale. Regardless, i'm sure ye will find all answers within  |
Alaundo
Candlekeep Forums Head Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
An Introduction to Candlekeep - by Ed Greenwood
The Candlekeep Compendium - Tomes of Realmslore penned by Scribes of Candlekeep
|
|
|
|
Effect
Acolyte
USA
18 Posts |
Posted - 20 Nov 2004 : 20:54:00
|
| Reading it myself might be good but I'm not up to there and I'll be waiting until it comes out in paperback. Also I don't have access to the hardcover or a book story away. All the same I don't care about being spoiled or even hearing things in advance and still would like to know. So if anyone else can tell me what happens and how the characters react to it that would be great. After all this is a thread where in the title, it says spoilers. So please don't hold back. |
Edited by - Effect on 20 Nov 2004 20:57:33 |
|
|
|
Crust
Learned Scribe
USA
273 Posts |
Posted - 22 Nov 2004 : 15:02:49
|
quote:
Originally posted by Effect
I'm curious. Exactly how does Wulfgar's wife Delly die? Sad to hear that she does die and that it seems his thoughts were elsewhere at the time(fighting and on CB). :(
Delly died because she was a whining, naive, weak-minded little waif who was more interested in her own wants and desires than the welfare of the dwarves of Mithril Hall. The typical spoiled little princess who felt her own happiness was more important than anyone else's.
Of course Wulfgar's thoughts were elsewhere in the story. An army of orcs were camped outside Mithril Hall. Of course, none of this mattered to Delly. "I want to go to Silverymoon! These caves are dirty and smelly... I'm bored... I want this... I want that... Things aren't going my way, so I'll make things difficult for Wulfgar."  I was very pleased with her fate. Khazid-hea is my hero, the masculine, sentient sword who overpowers the annoying waif and carries her out into the snows to be butchered by orcs. A fitting demise. I was actually a bit surprised at how RAS set that up. Shocking, but fitting.
|
"That's right, hurl back views that force ye to think by name-calling - 'tis the grand old tradition, let it not down! Anything to keep from having to think, or - Mystra forfend - change thy own views!"
Narnra glowered at her father. "Just how am I to learn how to think? By being taught by you?"
"Some folk in the Realms would give their lives for the chance to learn at my feet," Elminster said mildly. "Several already have."
~from Elminster's Daughter, Ed Greenwood |
Edited by - Crust on 23 Nov 2004 01:47:04 |
|
|
|
Alaundo
Head Moderator
United Kingdom
5695 Posts |
Posted - 22 Nov 2004 : 15:08:43
|
quote:
Originally posted by Crust
Delly died because she was a whining, naive, weak-minded little waif who was more interested in her own wants and desires than the welfare of the dwarves of Mithril Hall. The typical spoiled little princess who felt her own happiness was more important than anyone else's.
Of course Wulfgar's thoughts were elsewhere in the story. An army of orcs were camped outside Mithril Hall. Of course, none of this mattered to Dellie. "I want to go to Silverymoon! These caves are dirty and smelly... I'm bored... I want this... I want that... Things aren't going my way, so I'll make things difficult for Wulfgar." I was very pleased with her fate. Khazid-hea is my hero, the masculine, sentient sword who overpowers the annoying waif and carries her out into the snows to be butchered by orcs. A fitting demise. I was actually a bit surprised at how RAS set that up. Shocking, but fitting.
Well met, Crust
Am I to assume that Delly is not your favorite character? |
Alaundo
Candlekeep Forums Head Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
An Introduction to Candlekeep - by Ed Greenwood
The Candlekeep Compendium - Tomes of Realmslore penned by Scribes of Candlekeep
|
|
|
|
R0GUE
Seeker
USA
54 Posts |
Posted - 28 Nov 2004 : 01:42:14
|
I have to stick up for Delly, she was no spoiled princess by any stretch! She came from a life of poverty in which she was doomed to be forever a tavern wench until she died, that is until Wilfgar rescued her.
And as far as her having only her own selfish desires, that is plain ridiculous! She had much more of her daughter's interests at heart than her own. If anyone was acting selfish, I'd say it was Wulfgar. But honestly, a more fair characterization is probably to say that both Wulfgar AND Delly were having problems and unfortunately, could not find a way to reconcile them.
|
You have had your pocket pilfered by the R0GUE. |
|
|
|
Maecenus of Westgate
Learned Scribe
USA
111 Posts |
Posted - 29 Nov 2004 : 22:55:06
|
Does anyone know what year (in DR) Obould's attack on Mithral Hall or any of the events in the Hunter's Blades trilogy took place? I'm sure the events in these books will have a profound effect on the politics and culture of the Silver Marches and with other nearby regions. It may also be good to know during what month(s) the massive orc armies swept through the area and which settlements were destroyed, abandoned, fortified etc.
|
|
|
|
Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 29 Nov 2004 : 23:20:18
|
quote:
Originally posted by Maecenus of Westgate
Does anyone know what year (in DR) Obould's attack on Mithral Hall or any of the events in the Hunter's Blades trilogy took place? I'm sure the events in these books will have a profound effect on the politics and culture of the Silver Marches and with other nearby regions. It may also be good to know during what month(s) the massive orc armies swept through the area and which settlements were destroyed, abandoned, fortified etc.
I'm assuming around 1372.... But I could be wrong. :) |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
|
|
|
SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 30 Nov 2004 : 05:31:29
|
quote:
Originally posted by kuje31
I'm assuming around 1372.... But I could be wrong. :)
For some reason I want to say that when the first novel in the series came out, I read/heard something about it taking place a bit before that time frame. But, no idea on the source so you may be right. |
|
|
|
Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 30 Nov 2004 : 05:44:41
|
quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlack
quote:
Originally posted by kuje31
I'm assuming around 1372.... But I could be wrong. :)
For some reason I want to say that when the first novel in the series came out, I read/heard something about it taking place a bit before that time frame. But, no idea on the source so you may be right.
Well I'm assuming that because until Silver Marches came out, which was also set in 1372, that land wasn't called The Silver Marches. :) And Alustriel is still ruler of Silverymoon in the novels..... |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
|
|
|
Reefy
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
892 Posts |
Posted - 30 Nov 2004 : 12:04:11
|
quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlack
quote:
Originally posted by kuje31
I'm assuming around 1372.... But I could be wrong. :)
For some reason I want to say that when the first novel in the series came out, I read/heard something about it taking place a bit before that time frame. But, no idea on the source so you may be right.
I recall that too, I'm sure I read somewhere it was set a couple of years before the FRCS, 1369 or so. It may well have been on one of the largescale timelines but I really can't remember where. |
Life is either daring adventure or nothing. |
|
|
|
Lauzoril
Seeker
Finland
71 Posts |
Posted - 30 Nov 2004 : 19:29:49
|
I believe the time for Hunter's Blade is roughly around 1367-68.
|
"Death to the enemies of Bane."
|
|
|
|
Alhoon
Acolyte
USA
16 Posts |
Posted - 01 Dec 2004 : 01:30:47
|
| I got a real quick question maybe its me but I thought in the first or second book of this series the one dark elf that survived, I think he was calling himself a del armgo. Didn't it say somewhere that he was actually the youngest Baenre son. Maybe I am just crazy but I thought it said that somewhere. And if it did do you think that it is strange that Cutter ended up in his hands at the end? Any thoughts? |
::SLURP:: |
|
|
|
KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 04 Mar 2005 : 18:18:02
|
I have to say, I have been a huge RAS fan for years. Its really becuase if him that I got into the Forgotten Realms at all. But I was not impressed with the Two Swords, and I wanted to make it clear I am not a Drizzt basher to begin with.
I like Drizzt, and contrary to some I don't think he has been downgraded so that "common" foes can hurt him. The "ogre hopped up on potions" was half-mountain giant, and not only did Obould challenge Drizzt, but he roughed up Gerti, at 14HD creature with 9 character levels. I think Obould got upgraded, not the other way around.
I loved the first book becuase I thought that it was clearly showed why Bruenor was meant to be a dwarven king. His story telling and his actions towards others were great, and even the "last stand" in Shallows was great. I even loved the Bouldershoulder bros. "trojan Grummsh" manuver.
I think that is the problem. I was far more interested in the plight of the dwarves and the emergence of the kingdom of Dark Arrows than Drizzt's musings. Drizzt really had little to do with the overall storyline, and everytime he appeared, ostensibly in a book staring him, he was distracting to the overall story.
In all honesty, Bruenor has been a far more important character in overall impact than Drizzt. I love the guy, but I am really burnt out on him.
All that having been said, I don't want to bash on RAS. I have loved Jarlaxle and Artemis's stories, and I can't wait to read about them some more. I think RAS just needs to move on from Drizzt for a while (maybe a LONG) while and cultivate some more characters. (In fact, some of the better moments in this last trilogy had to do with character introduced in the Cleric Quintet, or invented for this trilogy)
And while no one "major" may have died, I really will miss Dagna. He has been a part of legend of Mithril Hall since "Streams of Silver" |
|
|
|
SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 04 Mar 2005 : 18:45:51
|
quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
I have to say, I have been a huge RAS fan for years. Its really becuase if him that I got into the Forgotten Realms at all. But I was not impressed with the Two Swords, and I wanted to make it clear I am not a Drizzt basher to begin with.
It's sad that you have to qualify yourself like that before making negative comments about this work. But, I understand why. |
|
|
|
Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 04 Mar 2005 : 23:31:34
|
quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
I think RAS just needs to move on from Drizzt for a while (maybe a LONG) while and cultivate some more characters. (In fact, some of the better moments in this last trilogy had to do with character introduced in the Cleric Quintet, or invented for this trilogy)
I'm not entirely sure WotC would let RAS move on from Drizzt... Drizzt has been a huge draw for them, much bigger than anything else RAS has done in the Realms. I think it's rather telling that the only way for RAS to use his Cleric Quintet characters again is to stick them in a Drizzt book... That indicates two things to me: RAS would like to branch out away from the Drizzt books, and that WotC isn't willing to let the cash cow go. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
|
|
|
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 05 Mar 2005 : 01:23:57
|
quote:
Originally posted by Crust
Delly died because she was a whining, naive, weak-minded little waif who was more interested in her own wants and desires than the welfare of the dwarves of Mithril Hall. The typical spoiled little princess who felt her own happiness was more important than anyone else's.
I don't agree with you here at all. Delly was selfish, but ultimately every person is selfish--I felt her feelings of claustrophobia and anger at being stuck where she was were normal, if not "commendable". I certainly didn't get the impression that she felt her happiness was more important than anyone else's. Come on, a "spoiled princess"? Consider her background.
And by the way, I liked it that the series actually featured a formidable orc villain. Who said orcs are just there to be dirty, smelly, cannon fodder not to be taken seriously? I got the impression that Obould was rather intelligent even before the "transformation", and I was pleased with his rise to power. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
Edited by - Rinonalyrna Fathomlin on 05 Mar 2005 01:25:12 |
|
|
|
Ethriel
Learned Scribe
USA
272 Posts |
Posted - 05 Mar 2005 : 03:27:13
|
Yes, but Delly's constant whining would make one believe there WASN'T a huge orc army threatening their lives...
And let's not forget the ever so tiny detail of Wulfgar's grief hardly even being explored |
|
|
|
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 05 Mar 2005 : 05:05:22
|
quote:
Originally posted by Ethriel
Yes, but Delly's constant whining would make one believe there WASN'T a huge orc army threatening their lives...
And let's not forget the ever so tiny detail of Wulfgar's grief hardly even being explored
Oh, I was not happy with the way Wulfgar was portrayed either. I've mentioned in other threads that he needs to grow up and, in my opinion, move on. Obviously, he wasn't going to leave Mithral Hall right then when it was in dire straits, but remember he willingly choose to take for himself both a wife and a child. That means considering what may be best for the child, if he doesn't want to accept a different role in life because his wife wants him to.
Another thing about Delly that bothered me. The relationship between Wulfgar and Delly was only barely explored at all in this series until The Two Swords--when it became important to the plot. At the beginning of the book I was happy to see more focus on Delly--there are other people who have feelings besides just the people on the battlefield (this goes back to a feeling of mine that there are other ways to write an exciting and poignant story besides battle and war). In the end I felt cheated, because it seemed like the interaction and relationship between Wulfgar and the woman he decided to make his wife was deemed unimportant until it became a plot device--a means to get several of Drizzt and the gang out of Mithral Hall on yet another "perilous adventure". So, my opinion is that this is shoddy characterization, whatever one thinks of Delly (or Wulfgar, for that matter). |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
Edited by - Rinonalyrna Fathomlin on 05 Mar 2005 05:06:00 |
|
|
|
SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 07 Apr 2005 : 07:25:23
|
For those fans of this series, I found the following over at R.A. Salvatore's site
quote:
R. A. Salvatore to write two new short stories
04/06/2005 -- R. A. Salvatore will continue The Two Swords story line in two new short stories/novellas. For fans that are interested in what happens to the companions after the end of The Two Swords will be happy to know that each characters tale will be fully told in two new stories due out later this year or early 2006. Stay tuned to RASalvatore.com for any future information on these stories.
|
|
|
|
SirUrza
Master of Realmslore
USA
1283 Posts |
Posted - 07 Apr 2005 : 08:02:18
|
| Wow, can I call it or can I call it. Thank god I don't have to sit through and read 350+ pages of the miss adventures of trying to rescue Colson. Now get 2 short and sweet shorts, and hopefully late 2006 we'll get the next Drizzt novel about trying to find that lost Dwarven city. |
"Evil prevails when good men fail to act."
The original and unapologetic Arilyn, Aribeth, Seoni Fanboy. |
|
|
|
Krafus
Learned Scribe
246 Posts |
Posted - 07 Apr 2005 : 13:27:16
|
quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlack
For those fans of this series, I found the following over at R.A. Salvatore's site
quote:
R. A. Salvatore to write two new short stories
04/06/2005 -- R. A. Salvatore will continue The Two Swords story line in two new short stories/novellas. For fans that are interested in what happens to the companions after the end of The Two Swords will be happy to know that each characters tale will be fully told in two new stories due out later this year or early 2006. Stay tuned to RASalvatore.com for any future information on these stories.
I hope this won't interfere with Salvatore writing his Sellswords (Jarlaxle and Entreri) books. |
|
|
|
Crust
Learned Scribe
USA
273 Posts |
Posted - 07 Apr 2005 : 14:34:41
|
That's interesting news. I'm excited about that.
And by the way, by calling Delly a "spoiled princess," I didn't mean that she's the daughter of a king and queen. I meant that she thought she deserved more than was her due, especially concerning the situation outside Mithril Hall. She was a brat, essentially. She continued to give Wulfgar a hard time even while orcs were beating on the doors of Mithril Hall.
What really surprised me is how RAS killed her off in such a callous way. For all her whining, Delly is rewarded by being overwhelmed by Cutter without even the slightest effort on Cutter's part, then Delly abandon's Colson and is slaughtered by orcs like a dog. It's almost as if RAS is saying, "If Delly had kept her mouth shut, she might still be alive." OK, maybe that's not what RAS is saying. "Cutter" is saying that, in fact. But is there a difference?
|
"That's right, hurl back views that force ye to think by name-calling - 'tis the grand old tradition, let it not down! Anything to keep from having to think, or - Mystra forfend - change thy own views!"
Narnra glowered at her father. "Just how am I to learn how to think? By being taught by you?"
"Some folk in the Realms would give their lives for the chance to learn at my feet," Elminster said mildly. "Several already have."
~from Elminster's Daughter, Ed Greenwood |
|
|
|
KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 07 Apr 2005 : 15:36:36
|
In think, in all honesty, that Cattie-brie should start feeling that guilt that Drizzt usually does, except hers is a bit more deserved. As others have pointed out, she left an intelligent, bloodthirsty sword out unguarded where it could potentially snag another persons will. One of the things that I liked about The Spine of the World was that we got to see another member of the group get introspective, namely Wulfgar. I know a lot of people complain about the introspection in the books, but I really think the main problem is that it is always Drizzt doing the thinking. If some other members of the party spent a while thinking and mulling over events, we might feel the party a bit better rounded out (though to be honest, dispite my complaits about this last series, I like tha fact that Regis seemed to be developing from the friendly but larcenous halfling along for the ride to a thoughtful character capable of leadership).
|
|
|
|
Ethriel
Learned Scribe
USA
272 Posts |
Posted - 07 Apr 2005 : 21:44:25
|
| I personally felt we didn't need the description of Obould and Tsinka's private lives |
|
|
|
Topic |
|
The Two Swords (SPOILERS)
