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Sourcemaster2
Senior Scribe
USA
361 Posts |
 Posted - 02 Oct 2004 : 17:59:15
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It's common knowledge that certain creatures-most notably true dragons-gain strength in body and magic over the years. What I'm wondering is: if such a being is exposed to aging effects, does it increase in abilities? I rather doubt it, since if it was that easy we'd all be up to our necks in great wyrms, but you never know.
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But what have all the passing years/Done, but breed new angers, fears?/Show me now an equal worth/To innocence I earned at birth. |
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Beowulf
Learned Scribe
Canada
322 Posts |
Posted - 02 Oct 2004 : 18:12:27
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I'd have to say that phyical changes brought on by advancing age, yes, but mental/emotional changes, no.
For instance, if we took a two year old and aged him 20 years, he would be as big and as strong as a full grown male adult (depending), but would lack the knowledge and experience. He would have no character class, little language, no weapon profs, no nonweapon prof, powerful moods, might still need a diaper, etc.
The same might be said for a dragon, which might get improved AC and more HD/HP by advancing his/her age, but she'd likely not experience any progression in spell knowledge/ability and the dragon's intrinsic abilities might also be more a matter of actual experence than raw age.
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"Ill tempered the wretch, who laughs at everyone. He cannot recognize, as he should, that he is not without faults." the High One, Poetic Edda |
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DDH_101
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1272 Posts |
Posted - 02 Oct 2004 : 18:17:15
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| Well, in The Forsaken House, how as elves grew older, their spirits grow stronger. It then burns brighter and clearer at last the body is nothing but a thin envelope. |
"Trust in the shadows, for the bright way makes you an easy target." -Mask |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36805 Posts |
Posted - 02 Oct 2004 : 20:14:30
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In the old 2E Tome of Magic, there were spells to age creatures. The spell age creature would work on humans, humanoids, and nonmagical creatures. It was permanent, and yes, the person or creature would have the same effects as if they had reached that age naturally.
Age dragon was a 7th level spell, but it was not permanent.
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A dragon affected by age dragon temporarily acquires the armor class, hit points, spell abilities, combat modifiers, size, and other attributes of his new age level. The dragon retains his memories and personality. At the end of the spell's duration, the dragon returns to his normal age level.
(Tome of Magic, page 105) |
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Sourcemaster2
Senior Scribe
USA
361 Posts |
Posted - 04 Oct 2004 : 03:56:43
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| Sound nice, Wooly. Even non-permanent and high level, I'd imagine that it would be a favorite. A device to cast it even just once a day could be a huge asset, depending on the duration and how much it actually ages the dragon. The image of a confident group of dragonslayers (brash PCs, cough, cough)coming across a young adult who suddenly becomes a great wyrm...the expressions would be something to treasure. |
But what have all the passing years/Done, but breed new angers, fears?/Show me now an equal worth/To innocence I earned at birth. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36805 Posts |
Posted - 04 Oct 2004 : 04:08:12
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quote:
Originally posted by Sourcemaster2
Sound nice, Wooly. Even non-permanent and high level, I'd imagine that it would be a favorite. A device to cast it even just once a day could be a huge asset, depending on the duration and how much it actually ages the dragon. The image of a confident group of dragonslayers (brash PCs, cough, cough)coming across a young adult who suddenly becomes a great wyrm...the expressions would be something to treasure.
I think Cadderly used the reverse of the spell in the Cleric Quintet, but it's been a while since I read it, so I'm not 100% sure. IIRC, he lowered the dragon's age to make it less of a threat. |
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Sourcemaster2
Senior Scribe
USA
361 Posts |
Posted - 04 Oct 2004 : 04:22:06
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| That scene was actually what inspired my query. I was paging through the Dracominicon, glanced at the age categories, and wondered whether Cadderly's spell could be altered to strengthen a dragon rather than weakening it. |
But what have all the passing years/Done, but breed new angers, fears?/Show me now an equal worth/To innocence I earned at birth. |
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Purple Dragon Knight
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1796 Posts |
Posted - 04 Oct 2004 : 04:51:19
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quote:
Originally posted by Sourcemaster2
It's common knowledge that certain creatures-most notably true dragons-gain strength in body and magic over the years. What I'm wondering is: if such a being is exposed to aging effects, does it increase in abilities? I rather doubt it, since if it was that easy we'd all be up to our necks in great wyrms, but you never know.
Each PC race has a minimum starting age. This is the age where the creature has grown mature and the age where there is no positive or negative stat modifiers (i.e. adulthood is 15 years of age for a human...) Similarly, most creature you see in the Monster Manual follow the same pattern: their stats are for a full-grown member of their race.
There are a few exceptions, like a dragon, or the phaerim. These creatures are so powerful that the full-grown version is too mighty for most adventurers to cope with. You could argue that the equivalent of 'human adulthood' is 'great wyrm' in the case of dragons. Anything less than a great wyrm is a dragon that is still growing up... Now, for gaming purposes, the designers have labeled dragons with 12 age categories. Even if one of them is called 'adult', one could argue that it is not the true adult form of a dragon, and that within dragons themselves, all members of the species know this fact...
The old, senile versions of certain dragons that we have seen in the past were undoubtedly way, way past the Great Wyrm age (i.e. "Cormyr, a Novel" and its scenes of the old sleeping Purple Dragon). Great Wyrms are 1,200 years old, but what happens at 3,000? no doubt the dragon loses STR, DEX and CON while his INT, WIS or CHA goes up (thus the physically weak Purple Dragon we see in "Cormyr")
Either they follow the regular aging deterioration experienced in all lifeforms (ok, except elves) or they don't (ok, just like elves). "Cormyr, a Novel" hints that old dragons DO deteriorate, so I am inclined to believe that my theory is true, that the 'true adulthood' form of the dragon species is what most adventurers refer to as "Great Wyrm". |
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A Matter of Time
