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Beowulf
Learned Scribe
Canada
322 Posts |
 Posted - 21 Sep 2004 : 18:42:59
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Hail!
I'm curious to know what people think of how a long lived race like the elves perceive the passage of time?
Myth Drannor for instance, seems to a human like something from a mythic, legendary past, something that might have been alive to someone's great, great, great, great grandpappy, but within the context of human generations, died long ago. To an elf however, Myth Drannor as it was still exists within living memory and older elves can talk about it to the young as such ... thus giving even a young elf a very different percpetion of the matter than a human.
Or so it seems to me. But how far does this extend? What is considered "ancient" to an elf? A thousand ago? Five thousand? What about all the way back to, like, 13 or 14 thousand years ago? Do any elves have any honest information of the first flowering? When does their "dream-time" end and a more "factual", no-no, a more chronological written history take over.
Lets say someone wanted to know who slew the first wyrm? Obviously, this is, or probably should be, entirely beyond the kenning of most humans, scholars or otherwise. But how far beyond elfin kenning? Do they have a reliable record or such ancient events? Or are such distant events myth, in which the first dragon slayer has melded over time with a number of subsequent dragonslayers to create somekind of half-honest/half-fictional, prototypical dragonslayer of elfin myth?
What of elfkind's ancient war with the dragons? Who would cast it as dream-time legend? Who would cast it as recorded history? And if history, how easy do you think it would be to uncover? Would it be common knowledge to the elves? The knowledge of a select few? Preserved merely in dusty old tomes and paintings?
Just trying to get a handle on this whole time of Dragons thing, and "how ancient" ...
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"Ill tempered the wretch, who laughs at everyone. He cannot recognize, as he should, that he is not without faults." the High One, Poetic Edda |
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Steven Schend
Forgotten Realms Designer & Author
USA
1707 Posts |
Posted - 22 Sep 2004 : 01:01:11
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quote:
Originally posted by Beowulf
Hail!
I'm curious to know what people think of how a long lived race like the elves perceive the passage of time?
Myth Drannor for instance, seems to a human like something from a mythic, legendary past, something that might have been alive to someone's great, great, great, great grandpappy, but within the context of human generations, died long ago. To an elf however, Myth Drannor as it was still exists within living memory and older elves can talk about it to the young as such ... thus giving even a young elf a very different percpetion of the matter than a human.
Didn't really have the time to delve into all of this, but I wanted to leave an emotional impression from the gut on this first part of the question....
To elves, the Fall of Myth Drannor is akin to how many Americans view/feel re: the bombing of Pearl Harbor. The attack on Evermeet is akin to the general American emotions surrounding the 9/11 hijackings and subsequent plane crashes.
That help for a really general benchmark? At least that's this scribe's opinion....
Steven |
For current projects and general natter, see www.steveneschend.com
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36784 Posts |
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Jerard Doonsay
Seeker
USA
65 Posts |
Posted - 22 Sep 2004 : 16:52:04
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| Might then under this very good analogy the first dragon slaying be akin to the time of the Roman Empire? |
May history live forever in the writings and stories of those who wish to tell them.
Please come and enjoy my website http://ferien.aribytes.org |
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Steven Schend
Forgotten Realms Designer & Author
USA
1707 Posts |
Posted - 22 Sep 2004 : 17:39:21
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quote:
Originally posted by Jerard Doonsay
Might then under this very good analogy the first dragon slaying be akin to the time of the Roman Empire?
The easiest benchmark on looking at history through elven eyes is this: Look at their ages vs. human ages. Since they seem to live (on average) nearly 10 times as long as humans, just drop one digit off the years and that's the scope of time emotionally. Thus, what's "now" for humans tends to be within 2-3 years, so elves consider "now" to be between 2 and 3 decades; two generations back is 50-60 years for humans, 500-600 for elves, etc.
Thus, elven history of 26 millennia equals about 2600 years in human terms and they may or may not be as attached to things as humans get. Most likely, the gold elves are the ones who attach the most weight to history and tradition (despite being the ones who've been at the wrong end of the spear in most of it). Thus, there's probably a lot of spin put into "elven history" depending on its sources; I'd more trust a green elf ballad of oral tradition for its history over a gold-elf penned history written in Evermeet (where politics and powerful families add another layer of influence and spin).
"First dragonslayings" would be an inaccurate measure for timing, but look to the history in CORMANTHYR and you've got the establishment of civilizations in -25K, so there was probably a small elven presence for at least 2-3 centuries before that; after all, they don't move quickly unless forced to do so. I'd say that early elven history on Faerun correlates to how we Earth humans look at Egyptian history of the early dynasties of the pharaohs. There's history before that (especially if green elves are still natives of Faerun and the rest were immigrants) but it's rather hazy (ala Egypt before the pharaohs, Babylon & the early civilizations of Hammurabi).
I'm making this clear as mud, ain't I?   |
For current projects and general natter, see www.steveneschend.com
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Beowulf
Learned Scribe
Canada
322 Posts |
Posted - 22 Sep 2004 : 17:59:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Jerard Doonsay
Might then under this very good analogy the first dragon slaying be akin to the time of the Roman Empire?
According to Cormanthor: Empire of the Elves the first dragons were slain during -- likely more toward the end of -- the Time of Dragons or before -24,000 DR.
To answer my own question, this was a period of legendry and myth in which elfin heroes arose to overthrow dragon and giant, and eventually birth their own great "nations"(?). No real dates are asigned to this period, seeming to imply, perhaps, that an oral tradition was still in some wise in place? Of course, five elfin realms were in place by -24,000 DR.
So, based upon Steve's benchmark, I'd wager the tales of the first dragon murder, and in fact the entire legend/s of the overthrow of dragonkind, would be to the elves what Homer's works are to your average, modern westerner?
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"Ill tempered the wretch, who laughs at everyone. He cannot recognize, as he should, that he is not without faults." the High One, Poetic Edda |
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Jerard Doonsay
Seeker
USA
65 Posts |
Posted - 22 Sep 2004 : 21:12:42
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| Yes, it all makes sense, and sounds about right. |
May history live forever in the writings and stories of those who wish to tell them.
Please come and enjoy my website http://ferien.aribytes.org |
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Talwyn
Learned Scribe
Australia
222 Posts |
Posted - 28 Sep 2004 : 07:23:25
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| A most interesting topic, thanks Steve for your views. |
Over the centuries, mankind has tried many ways of combating the forces of evil...prayer, fasting, good works and so on.
Up until Doom, no one seemed to have thought about the double-barrel shotgun.
EAT LEADEN DEATH DEMON!
Terry Pratchett
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Time in context
