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richtinIII
Acolyte
USA
29 Posts |
 Posted - 16 Sep 2004 : 18:00:33
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how many dragons are on aber-toril, and does someone have a list of most of their names,location,and colour?
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Where in the Nine Hells did you ever get the idea that I would fight fair? |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36877 Posts |
Posted - 16 Sep 2004 : 18:16:26
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quote:
Originally posted by richtinIII
how many dragons are on aber-toril, and does someone have a list of most of their names,location,and colour?
How many? Only Io knows, though Velseart of Baldur's Gate may be able to make an educated guess...
There is a database of dragons, right here on Candlekeep. I direct you to here:
http://www.candlekeep.com./library/articles/dragondb.htm |
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The Wanderer
Learned Scribe
USA
132 Posts |
Posted - 16 Sep 2004 : 18:24:37
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by richtinIII
how many dragons are on aber-toril, and does someone have a list of most of their names,location,and colour?
How many? Only Io knows, though Velseart of Baldur's Gate may be able to make an educated guess...
There is a database of dragons, right here on Candlekeep. I direct you to here:
http://www.candlekeep.com./library/articles/dragondb.htm
Mon dieu! I had not idea that was there. Thanks for the link, Wooly  |
The Wanderer |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36877 Posts |
Posted - 16 Sep 2004 : 20:19:01
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quote:
Originally posted by Anubis
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by richtinIII
how many dragons are on aber-toril, and does someone have a list of most of their names,location,and colour?
How many? Only Io knows, though Velseart of Baldur's Gate may be able to make an educated guess...
There is a database of dragons, right here on Candlekeep. I direct you to here:
http://www.candlekeep.com./library/articles/dragondb.htm
Mon dieu! I had not idea that was there. Thanks for the link, Wooly
Not a problem! 'Tis good to be able to help others out.  |
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richtinIII
Acolyte
USA
29 Posts |
Posted - 16 Sep 2004 : 22:50:18
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WOWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW!!!!!
thats alot of dragons.thanx for the web link, i love it
Question: how does one get a red/blue dragon? the name is "Garnetallisar" |
Where in the Nine Hells did you ever get the idea that I would fight fair? |
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Lemernis
Senior Scribe
378 Posts |
Posted - 16 Sep 2004 : 23:58:32
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| I'm curious, who is Velseart, and where can I find info on him or her? |
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DDH_101
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1272 Posts |
Posted - 17 Sep 2004 : 00:31:16
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| Velseart is a sage who lives in Baldur's Gate, as Wooly mentioned, and he is the supposed expert on all dragons. If anybody wants to find information on dragons, he is the person to look for. In many WotC dragon articles, his name is often mentioned. |
"Trust in the shadows, for the bright way makes you an easy target." -Mask |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36877 Posts |
Posted - 17 Sep 2004 : 00:34:52
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| Yup. There's not a lot of hard info on Velsaert... Ed did toss out a nice tidbit, about two months ago. I'm at work, so I'll have to wait until I get home to share that extra bit of info. |
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richtinIII
Acolyte
USA
29 Posts |
Posted - 17 Sep 2004 : 02:53:32
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did anyone get my question?
Question: how does one get a red/blue dragon? the name is "Garnetallisar" |
Where in the Nine Hells did you ever get the idea that I would fight fair? |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36877 Posts |
Posted - 17 Sep 2004 : 03:07:18
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quote:
Originally posted by richtinIII
did anyone get my question?
Question: how does one get a red/blue dragon? the name is "Garnetallisar"
I'll have to check the appropriate sources when I get home, but I believe that he was a red dragon by birth. A mage had been experimenting on the egg with magic, and altered the physical form to be more like a blue dragon, and also changed the alignment.
That's all off the top of my head -- as I say, I'll have to double-check the appropriate sources when I get off of work in a couple hours. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36877 Posts |
Posted - 17 Sep 2004 : 06:06:23
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Okay, here's the lowdown, from page 39 of Cormanthyr, and page 22 of The Fall of Myth Drannor:
This guy Saeval Ammath finds a red dragon egg in 346, the Year of Blushing Stars. He starts chucking magic at the egg.
The egg hatches in 348, the Year of the Dagger. The dragon is red, but has the physique of a blue dragon. Saeval named the dragon Garnetallisar.
In 358, the Year of the Battle Talons, Garnet became known to the folks in Myth Drannor. There was a big commotion, but since Saeval's enchantments had made Garnet Lawful Good, Coronal Eltargrim tweaks the mythal to allow Garnet to live in the city.
In 712, the Year of the Lost Lance, Myth Drannor was under attack by the Army of Darkness. On Hammer 12, Garnet rashly attaked the bad guys. He was aided by an ally and former mentor, a silver dragon named Sylvallitham. They tore thru the ground troops, and were just about to attack the nycaloth leaders of the army, when they were struck by beams of light. Both dragons disappeared without a trace.
Sylvallitham's body was found over two hundred years later, apparently killed by another dragon. Garnet's fate is unknown.
Oh, and one more bit about Garnet: the book The Fall of Myth Drannor mentions that Garnet breathed "arcing bolts of electrical fire".
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The Wanderer
Learned Scribe
USA
132 Posts |
Posted - 17 Sep 2004 : 15:07:36
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Okay, here's the lowdown, from page 39 of Cormanthyr, and page 22 of The Fall of Myth Drannor:
This guy Saeval Ammath finds a red dragon egg in 346, the Year of Blushing Stars. He starts chucking magic at the egg.
The egg hatches in 348, the Year of the Dagger. The dragon is red, but has the physique of a blue dragon. Saeval named the dragon Garnetallisar.
In 358, the Year of the Battle Talons, Garnet became known to the folks in Myth Drannor. There was a big commotion, but since Saeval's enchantments had made Garnet Lawful Good, Coronal Eltargrim tweaks the mythal to allow Garnet to live in the city.
In 712, the Year of the Lost Lance, Myth Drannor was under attack by the Army of Darkness. On Hammer 12, Garnet rashly attaked the bad guys. He was aided by an ally and former mentor, a silver dragon named Sylvallitham. They tore thru the ground troops, and were just about to attack the nycaloth leaders of the army, when they were struck by beams of light. Both dragons disappeared without a trace.
Sylvallitham's body was found over two hundred years later, apparently killed by another dragon. Garnet's fate is unknown.
Oh, and one more bit about Garnet: the book The Fall of Myth Drannor mentions that Garnet breathed "arcing bolts of electrical fire".
It would seem that I am missing a lot more information about the Realms that I was previosuly aware of, since I had no idea that this hybrid existed.
By your description, Wooly, I got the impression that Garnett might have been the cause of Sylvallitham's death. Is this a theory that has been discussed? He was, in fact, the combination of two very evil species of dragons, no? |
The Wanderer |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36877 Posts |
Posted - 17 Sep 2004 : 17:25:38
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quote:
Originally posted by Anubis
By your description, Wooly, I got the impression that Garnett might have been the cause of Sylvallitham's death. Is this a theory that has been discussed? He was, in fact, the combination of two very evil species of dragons, no?
Garnet was a red dragon, it's just that his body was shaped more like that of a blue dragon. I don't know if you'd call that a combination of two species or not... But his alignment was Lawful Good.
It could be said that Garnet caused Syvallitham's death, but only because Garnet -- with good intentions -- rashly attacked the Army of Darkness, and Syvall was trying to help his ally and former pupil.
As for the death of Syvall, one detail I glossed over was that the text said he was apparently killed by a great wyrm. At that particular point, Garnet, if still alive, would have been about 550 years old -- pretty far from being a great wyrm.
So I'd not say that Garnet was directly responsible for Syvall's death. Even indirect responsibility can be argued against...
Perhaps the esteemed sage Steven Schend will pop in here with some more info on Garnet... If not, I'll drop him a line and see if he has anything to share. |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 17 Sep 2004 : 17:30:04
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| If I recall my Myth Drannor lore right, Garnet also signified the end of Myth Drannor because a good chromatic dragon was the only way to release the 3 fiends from thier prison. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36877 Posts |
Posted - 17 Sep 2004 : 22:50:59
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quote:
Originally posted by kuje31
If I recall my Myth Drannor lore right, Garnet also signified the end of Myth Drannor because a good chromatic dragon was the only way to release the 3 fiends from thier prison.
Yeah, I think the exact stipulation was something like "when a red dragon that has never known malice in its heart flies over the Coronal's throne." I'll have to check on that when I get home. But I was, for simplicity's sake, omitting that detail.  |
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DDH_101
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1272 Posts |
Posted - 18 Sep 2004 : 04:42:09
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| Wooly, you are correct. I saw the quote while going to this FR site and saw what you were talking about. Garnet's flight over Myth Drannor had weakened the wards on an invisible prison above the City of Songs that allowed the three nycoloths to escape and build their army. However, I don't actually remember if who built the prison or even if anybody in Myth Drannor knew about it. |
"Trust in the shadows, for the bright way makes you an easy target." -Mask |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6680 Posts |
Posted - 19 Sep 2004 : 07:00:33
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The High Mages of Cormanthyr trapped the trio nefarious after they had been let loose by unscrupulous Netherese wizards to "test out" Cormanthyr. This happened in -1200 DR, so you might forgive them for not putting two and two together re Garnet almost 2000 years later ...
-- George Krashos
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"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
Posted - 19 Sep 2004 : 08:58:56
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Not to mention the fact that he didn't look like a red dragon.
I wonder how he feels about this? If he's still alive, then is he perhaps moping in a cave someplace, blaming himself for what happend? |
Hell hath no fury like all of Candlekeep rising in defense of one of its own.
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36877 Posts |
Posted - 20 Sep 2004 : 05:09:39
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Okay, I just sent esteemed sage Schend an e-mail asking if he had further info on Garnet...
I earlier promised to dig out some info on Velseart that Ed was kind enough to toss out in the Ask Ed thread. Here it is:
quote:
Wooly Rupert, Velsaert is an interesting personage. I don’t want to crash into forthcoming Realms projects of which I should say NOTHING more right now by providing too much detail about Velsaert, but let me say this much: most folk in the Realms know him only by his reputation and writings (in the last two decades, he seems to have become more reclusive than he once was), and rumors are arising that whisper Velsaert’s apparent shyness might have something to do with changes to his body (some say talons, some say scales, some say nictating membranes over his eyes, some even speak of a tail) that might suggest a closer connection with things draconic than had been hitherto suspected. However, it’s been said before (by the long-dead wit and playwright Aunselrus of Myratma) that "rumor hisses as menacingly as a harmless grass snake, but sinks its fangs in when least expected, not when heard from most loudly."
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monch9
Seeker
Poland
67 Posts |
Posted - 20 Sep 2004 : 10:17:55
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Wooly,
If you look down on this forum. Stephen answered my query on Garnet as well.
Regarding the Dragon list. I recall in the Novel the "War on Tethyr", there were a couple of "Gem" Dragons. Once of which is Queen Zaranda's ward Chenowyn (?). She's supposed to be a Ruby Dragon, her mother is the (Wizard/Sorceres) also in the novel.
Monch |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36877 Posts |
Posted - 20 Sep 2004 : 15:38:21
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quote:
Originally posted by monch9
Wooly,
If you look down on this forum. Stephen answered my query on Garnet as well.
Uh, where am I looking? |
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monch9
Seeker
Poland
67 Posts |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36877 Posts |
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richtinIII
Acolyte
USA
29 Posts |
Posted - 20 Sep 2004 : 19:00:25
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| If youre half-dragon how does that affect your life-span, stats, and abilities? |
Where in the Nine Hells did you ever get the idea that I would fight fair? |
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Steven Schend
Forgotten Realms Designer & Author
USA
1727 Posts |
Posted - 20 Sep 2004 : 19:25:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Anubis
[quote]Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Sylvallitham's body was found over two hundred years later, apparently killed by another dragon. Garnet's fate is unknown.
Oh, and one more bit about Garnet: the book The Fall of Myth Drannor mentions that Garnet breathed "arcing bolts of electrical fire".
[SES messed up the quotes while trying to splice up the answers, then finally gave up in frustration   ]
It would seem that I am missing a lot more information about the Realms that I was previosuly aware of, since I had no idea that this hybrid existed.
By your description, Wooly, I got the impression that Garnett might have been the cause of Sylvallitham's death. Is this a theory that has been discussed? He was, in fact, the combination of two very evil species of dragons, no?
Yeah, I've lost my notes as to exactly which dragon/great wyrm it was that slew Sylvallitham; anyone know/remember if I'd placed him among the slaughtered dragons down among the Lands of Intrigue? (I've been rereading those areas recently and was astonished I'd left quite a few rather ancient dragons in place and slaughtered many more younger dragons.....) I can state unequivocally that Garnetallisor was not the slayer of his mentor.
As for those "arcing bolts of electrical fire," I wanted to underscore that this critter was something special. For visual purposes, think of it like silver fire--it looks and acts a bit like fire, but inherently it's something else entirely.  What exactly has yet to be statted, and I'd just as soon let GMs handle that.
If you need my opinion, I'd say it's exactly as stated--electrical fire that burns and shocks; damage is standard dragon progression of 2d8/age category but it counts as both fire/lightning while bypassing defenses designed against either one. (In other words, you're only immune to/defended against his breath weapon if you're immune/resistant to BOTH fire and lightning.)
Garnet was a wholly unique creature unlike any to exist before or since. He was a chimera of dracoforms, and the only reason he was red in color and blue in shape was this: Saeval Ammath had many secrets never revealed to elves outside of his clan, and often only to a few select members of his immediate family. Saeval's grandfather--an exiled elf who was born outside of Cormtanthor and never trod its paths--was a half-dragon, born of a silver dragon mother. He was a great tracker and wizard of Ardeep (Sure hope I'm getting my dates/names right, but I'm winging it here from half-remembered notes that don't survive; George and Eric can correct me before this thread closes. ) and patriarch of a loyal and good branch of the Ammath clan in those western woods.
Saeval came to Myth Drannor to learn more magics but also to cure a great sorrow of his own--the silver dragon (long publicly a family friend but in truth his own great-grandmother) had died protecting him and others from battle-maddened Hlondathan mages scavenging for any magics they could find (and they also took their trade caravan to be smuggling weapons and magic to the Cormanthan elves, their enemies in the Crown and Scepter Wars). Saeval preserved the dragon's soul in a brand-new kiira, and spent the next 50 years or so trying to find a way to restore her to life. He studied under many of the great wizards of Myth Drannor and COrmanthor of all races and he wandered far and wide (rumor has it he venture far onto the Great Glacier and as far south as Chondath).
When he found a blue dragon's egg in his wanderings, he magically kept it from hatching or developing, and he spent a decade of casting to alter its form into something powerful enough to house the silver dragon's soul. While he managed to match the power of the red dragons inside the form of the blue dragon and make other changes to allow for the magical transfer, he either could not or did not change the dragon's gender within its shell.
When the egg finally hatched in 348, Garnet was unique. Physically, he had to relearn everything to adapt to this new form, but mentally, (s)he had all the knowledge of her previous life. Thus, even at hatchling stage, he had access to the special abilities of a very old silver dragon (except polymorph self, as the magics used to create his new form locked him into one shape; and damage reduction, which is a function of the physical body, not the mind).
Thus, even while Garnet is now physically a wyrm, (s)he's gone into epic levels for certain special abilities. Assuming, of course, that he still exists...
Hope this explains why Garnet isn't either evil or the start of a whole new race of dragons. While one could postulate that he could mate with either reds or blues and have offspring of that hue/form, it's far more sensible (given the origin and attendant problems) to state that Garnet, while healthy in all ways, was born sterile.
Whew.... Geez, Wooly....simple email and I expected it'd be a short response, but nooo.....
Hope these answers suit folks; if not, then they're just the ramblings and wild ideas of a fellow fan (which they are, in truth, as I've no official standing with this stuff other than to say what I meant / planned when I wrote this stuff 8 years ago).
Steven |
For current projects and general natter, see www.steveneschend.com
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Edited by - Steven Schend on 20 Sep 2004 19:28:44 |
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Steven Schend
Forgotten Realms Designer & Author
USA
1727 Posts |
Posted - 20 Sep 2004 : 19:39:43
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quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
The High Mages of Cormanthyr trapped the trio nefarious after they had been let loose by unscrupulous Netherese wizards to "test out" Cormanthyr. This happened in -1200 DR, so you might forgive them for not putting two and two together re Garnet almost 2000 years later ...
-- George Krashos
Given how notoriously close mouthed High Mages can be about their activities, it should never be surprising that lore gets lost. After 3200 years, it's rather likely that none of the High Mages who trapped the Trio Nefarious were around in any manner (i.e. not still lurking around consciously in a selu'kiira, though their knowledge may have been preserved). Even if they did record their castings and how/why they imprisoned these menaces, unless the contemporary High Mages looked up the information, they probably had no clue it existed by that time either.
Another good example of this information breakdown is Hellgate Keep and the Dlardrageths. In fact, FORSAKEN HOUSE touched on this a little as well. However, it wasn't a case of anyone irresponsibly forgetting things or not looking up the information. There were only five Arcorarn High Mages involved in imprisoning the Dlardrageths beneath Ascal's Horn, and before any of them had the chance to report back to Cormanthyr and their fellows what they'd done, they were all killed in the Seven Citadels' War rising around them in Eaerlann. Even if there were Eaerlanni involved in support of the ritual of myriad, they were most likely slain in that war as well. Thus, this was a case of knowledge being lost due to untimely death (and the messenger never being able to send the message).
Steven
Who likes playing these games with history to underscore that not all that we remember or are taught may be the whole story and in fact is often very rarely so..... |
For current projects and general natter, see www.steveneschend.com
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36877 Posts |
Posted - 20 Sep 2004 : 22:50:03
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quote:
Originally posted by Steven Schend
Whew.... Geez, Wooly....simple email and I expected it'd be a short response, but nooo.....
Wow, that's some good stuff! Thank you for taking the time to reply!
But one question: wasn't Garnet originally a red, not a blue? |
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richtinIII
Acolyte
USA
29 Posts |
Posted - 21 Sep 2004 : 04:11:24
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| If youre half-dragon how does that affect your life-span, stats, and abilities? |
Where in the Nine Hells did you ever get the idea that I would fight fair? |
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Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
Posted - 21 Sep 2004 : 06:18:05
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Shall I wait for a third post, so you can live up to your name?
Try looking in the free SRD. The half-dragon template is under the Monsters section. |
Hell hath no fury like all of Candlekeep rising in defense of one of its own.
Download the brickfilm masterpiece by Leftfield Studios! See this page for more. |
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Steven Schend
Forgotten Realms Designer & Author
USA
1727 Posts |
Posted - 21 Sep 2004 : 15:00:48
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Steven Schend
Whew.... Geez, Wooly....simple email and I expected it'd be a short response, but nooo.....
Wow, that's some good stuff! Thank you for taking the time to reply!
But one question: wasn't Garnet originally a red, not a blue?
I suppose that the grammar from CORMANTHYR p39 (i.e. "...still a shade of red...") makes the case that (s)he was originally a red dragon's egg, but it's a semantics difference really. It works either way, given the wonky things done to the egg itself; I just half-remembered it as a blue dragon's egg yesterday, but I've been wrong before.
In other words, it's originally whichever type you want, Wooly.
SES |
For current projects and general natter, see www.steveneschend.com
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Jakk
Great Reader
Canada
2165 Posts |
Posted - 29 Sep 2008 : 11:00:11
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As some of you have probably noticed by now, I like rejuvenating old scrolls.
This one in particular interested me, as I found it in a search for "Garnetallisar"... I've been looking for more information on this critter for quite some time now. The answers in "Cormanthyr" and "The Fall of Myth Drannor", while informative, just create more questions... and yes, I know that's what Ed likes.
What I like is answers to questions. So I'm going to take a stab at answering the three most irritating questions regarding Garnet.
[1] Who killed Sylvallitham? My answer, just because it fits the timeline and (to a lesser degree) the geography, is Tchazzar. He's a red great wyrm east of the Dragon Reach (Sylval's corpse was found in the southern Galenas near Ironfang Keep) and he had just settled in as King of Chessenta, so he was probably needing the occasional "field trip" to prevent himself from killing his subjects.
[2] Where is Garnetallisar? All I have for this one is a line from a supplement I can't identify off the top of my head: "Garnet disappears... not to be seen for centuries." (emphasis mine)... indicating that he does come back at some definite time.
[3] What the heck were those rays that caused the two dragons to disappear in the first place? All I have for this one is a total brain-dead copout... they were magic. Well, duh! The real question is, whose magic and why? There was no indication of directionality of the rays, but (being rays) they must have come from somewhere.
I only ask one thing with respect to responses... if the response is from Steven, Eric, Ed/THO, or another writer, please *don't* say that you can't tell me (NDA). Say something like "we don't have an answer" or "it's all yours; make it up". If my answer is in a novel somewhere, or is planned for one in the near future, that's good too. On the subject of NDAs... someone asked elsewhere if there was any chance of pre-4E NDAs being vacated now that WotC doesn't plan to produce more than the two books for Realms 4.0. I really, really, really hope so.
Okay... that's enough from me. Hopefully I didn't stray too far off topic at the end there. Thanks for any and all information you can give me, whoever you are, and all I really want for Christmas is a message board account of NDA slaying. 
[edit]
Okay... that link to the dragon database is dead now (not surprising, given the age of the scroll)... is that the same database that was made available with the Web Enhancement for Dragons of Faerun?
[/edit] |
Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.
If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic. |
Edited by - Jakk on 29 Sep 2008 11:11:07 |
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Dragons on aber-toril
