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Kitira Gildragon
Learned Scribe
USA
191 Posts |
 Posted - 12 Sep 2004 : 22:14:29
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Is the soul considered a single unit, or can it be spread out or fragmented? If it is possible to use a piece of soul for magical experiment, could that loss be healed over time or the missing fragment regenerated over time?
If so, would a god/goddess have issues with one of their clerics and/or followers doing this willingly?
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Capn Charlie
Senior Scribe
USA
418 Posts |
Posted - 12 Sep 2004 : 23:00:27
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This is a very difficult question, and one whose answer would rely mostly on DM interpretation.
I would see the soul as something that can be damaged while not being destroyyedI would also think it could be fractured in theory.
A god's feelings on this might be varied, but in essentiality it comes down to the end result. THE soul is the follower's, not the god's(though some of the evil deities might view this differently) and it would be a decision of the giver.
If this end result is some noble goal, this experiment is a good thing of itself, then they would have little issue with it. (Nor indeed would most evil deities if the goal was aligned with their goals)
As to the soul regrowing over time, I would say yes, but this opens a problem with abusing the mechanic to gain an ingame advantage, IE soul powered items. I would say that any item that is powered by the consumption of a soul to power itself requires theconsumption(and subsequent destruction) of an entire soul, not a part or several parts thereof. |
Shadows of War: Tales of a Mercenary
My first stab at realms fiction, here at candlekeep. Stop on by and tell me what you think. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36805 Posts |
Posted - 13 Sep 2004 : 02:09:32
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quote:
Originally posted by Kitira Gildragon
Is the soul considered a single unit, or can it be spread out or fragmented? If it is possible to use a piece of soul for magical experiment, could that loss be healed over time or the missing fragment regenerated over time?
In the Finder's Stone trilogy, the saurial paladin Dragonbait had chunks of his soul siphoned off and stuck in Alias and her sisters... I believe that even in the first book, it was stated that souls are infinite, so taking a chunk off does nothing except give you two infinities.
quote:
Originally posted by Kitira Gildragon
If so, would a god/goddess have issues with one of their clerics and/or followers doing this willingly?
I imagine it would depend greatly on the reason behind the act, and whether or not all participants are willing. |
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The Cardinal
Senior Scribe
Canada
647 Posts |
Posted - 13 Sep 2004 : 03:52:13
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We art compelled to agree with Wooly. Our own research (in game dynamics of souls... ok so some of our characters like dealing with Baatezu and Tanar'ri  ) points that usually a creatures soul is infinite. On such class that comes to mind is one called possessed who takes Fiends into the body gaining some of their powers. As he does so however he sells part of his 'soul' off to the Named Demon which he can join with for a set amount of time and a number of times perday (Encylopedia Arcane: Demonology the Dark Road, Possessed PRC). Taking this as an Idea, then it can be fragmented and sold off (or used) bit by bit... Being infinite (more or less) this kind of negates the need to regenerate or grow it back... Of course this is all up to DM discretion.
EDIT: As for Deities... well in our own case... Our characters make it a point not to die.. since they kinda have things waiting to collect a payment upon such a date  |
It has to be Certain, the Gods Hate Me. For whatever irrevokable Fate, I have been made the walking Joke. Either that, or Beshaba is overlyfond Of Me.
-Unknown |
Edited by - The Cardinal on 13 Sep 2004 03:55:07 |
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Kitira Gildragon
Learned Scribe
USA
191 Posts |
Posted - 13 Sep 2004 : 04:35:55
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quote:
Originally posted by Capn Charlie
As to the soul regrowing over time, I would say yes, but this opens a problem with abusing the mechanic to gain an ingame advantage, IE soul powered items. I would say that any item that is powered by the consumption of a soul to power itself requires theconsumption(and subsequent destruction) of an entire soul, not a part or several parts thereof.
The use of soulpowered items is not a concern for this character. However... I must also ask- would creations (items or weapons, in this case) involving the soul 'fragments' react to the energy/proximity of other shards?
Also, were it to be used in cloning, what kind of reactions do you think the character's doubles would endure from:
Nearness to one another
Conflict of duties/interest
Combat against one another
One being wounded (do the others feel it? If yes, then to what degree?)
If one dies, does the spirit then leave to take hold in another of the constructs, or is it just lost? Do the others die as well?
Sorry, more stupid questions, but I'm rather interested in the possibilities. |
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Hamlet
Acolyte
Bulgaria
30 Posts |
Posted - 13 Sep 2004 : 04:44:03
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quote:
Originally posted by Kitira Gildragon
Is the soul considered a single unit, or can it be spread out or fragmented? If it is possible to use a piece of soul for magical experiment, could that loss be healed over time or the missing fragment regenerated over time?
Alas, that's exactly what we have in the Nordock NWN module. Dead players appear in the Fugue plane, a place on the border of life and death. Then you may return at a certain price, including a soul fragment, which in-game means lowering your abiliteis till you - what a horror! - restore it paying a small sum to the local NPC priest. The other way round is for your friends to pay 50 000 gold for True Ressurect to the NPC priest. Or, you can cast your ghastly voice to the nearest player cleric level 17 and over, who can can cast True ressurect himself, using Balm of True Ressurection for 7800 gp.
I suppose in this case the "soul fragment" idea is rather related to the unability of someone to be as active as usual, soon after he has slipped on the border of death. This does make sense.
Otherwise, I have not heard of a way to fragment the soul, but have heard of many ways to tie it / imprison it to something and thus control it. Once upon a time in my country there used to be an old ritual, which was rather connected to the living force inside a human being, not necessarily the soul. Legend tells of three brothers who had to build a city wall and as they built it at day, it fell by night. Then they had to use that ritual: measure the length of the shadow a human being casts at sunrize, using a cord or a tree branch (if the subject is a child); then build it in the wall. With time the human being whose "shadow" was taken would die, but the building would remain for ages ... The brothers agreed to use the first human to pass them by in the morning. Alas, that was the bride of the youngest of the brothers, who had came to bring them food. They had to use her ...
All in all, I see no way of fragmenting one's soul literally, but rather capture the whole thing. As in a ring, like, or a gem - a common wizard/sorc spell.
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If it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, and you have to make fortitude saves, you know it's a druid. -- Capn Charlie
Well, lesson learned ... do 'NOT' piss off a trapped lich. -- Cardinal Deimos |
Edited by - Hamlet on 13 Sep 2004 08:33:29 |
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Beowulf
Learned Scribe
Canada
322 Posts |
Posted - 13 Sep 2004 : 07:05:51
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All in all, I see no way of fragmenting one's soul literally, but rather capture it. As in a ring, like, or a gem - a common wizard/sorc spell.
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According to the beliefs of some cultures the soul is a gestalt made up of many interrelated parts ... some finite, some relatively infinite, some highly individual, beginning and ending with the person in question, and other parts clannic existing in the family "pool" long before and continuing long after any given individual.
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"Ill tempered the wretch, who laughs at everyone. He cannot recognize, as he should, that he is not without faults." the High One, Poetic Edda |
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Sourcemaster2
Senior Scribe
USA
361 Posts |
Posted - 14 Sep 2004 : 01:42:39
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quote:
Also, were it to be used in cloning, what kind of reactions do you think the character's doubles would endure from:
Nearness to one another
Conflict of duties/interest
Combat against one another
One being wounded (do the others feel it? If yes, then to what degree?)
If one dies, does the spirit then leave to take hold in another of the constructs, or is it just lost? Do the others die as well?
I suppose it depends on whether you view the soul as the consciousness of the individual or some deeper essence, but there's not too much difference there. Proximity probably wouldn't have much effect, unless the soul was divided unwillingly and is struggling to escape/reunite. The same would apply, methinks, for conflict of interests. I'm not totally sure, but injuries would likely be felt, but not actually transfer to the other "shards." Death shouldn't kill the others, but might leave them weakened somehow, or perhaps actually strengthen them by restoring some of the divided power, or, as ye said, it could try to expel one of its fellows from whatever body it's in, but I doubt that. |
But what have all the passing years/Done, but breed new angers, fears?/Show me now an equal worth/To innocence I earned at birth. |
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A Question of Soul
