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Moonharp
Acolyte
Canada
38 Posts |
 Posted - 05 Sep 2004 : 02:14:17
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As I am a rather new DM, I am only familiar with the 3Ed rules (I am working on 2Ed now), and as I have run my group through series of short adventures, I would like to try something longer, more "campaign" like. Therefore, I looked at the 3Ed list of campaigns, and found the City of Spider Queen. Is it any good? And if it is, was there a DM screen printed out along with it? (I ask this purely because it is unusual to find drow and most inhabitants of Underdark on the official DM screens). And if it is not any good, what 3Ed adventure would you advise?
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Edited by - Alaundo on 14 Sep 2004 10:16:59
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6688 Posts |
Posted - 05 Sep 2004 : 10:48:09
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I have only thumbed through this adventure, but reviews on the web (such as at ENWorld) have indicated that it is pretty tough for the stated character levels. I can't say I like the premise much also - given that if the PCs fail, the whole Dalelands are supposedly in peril.
-- George Krashos
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"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Purple Dragon Knight
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1796 Posts |
Posted - 05 Sep 2004 : 12:32:53
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The adventure is very good. I've DMed half of it now, and I'm turning DMing duties over to one of the players (now I get to roll my own PC, he he he).
Of note, I should warn you that it is very LONG to complete - we've played a year so far and we only have half of it done (admittedly, we only play twice a month for 4-5 hours at a time, which really bites but I have to respect everyone's availability).
If you get a serious group willing to play EVERY WEEK, 6-8 hours at a time, I say you can finish the module within 3-4 months. The adventure takes four 10th-level PCs to 18th-level if you run them through all the encounters (according to the book's introduction).
Little spoiler: lots of undead --> the party's cleric is a very popular person during this adventure... |
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Moonharp
Acolyte
Canada
38 Posts |
Posted - 05 Sep 2004 : 21:20:25
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Thank you so much for the input!
Yes, I have heard that the adventure is EXTREMELY long, though that is one of the things I was looking for. Perhaps I will need some more practice before I and my group will tackle that...
I have not yet heard that the challenge ratings are underestimated, so thanks for that warning. Also for the one with the undead. Yes, the group has one cleric, but perhaps I will get one of them to multiclass another... I hope to keep them alive.
Thank you again on the information. |
Moonharp the Marvelous |
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Purple Dragon Knight
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1796 Posts |
Posted - 05 Sep 2004 : 22:28:56
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quote:
Originally posted by Moonharp
Thank you so much for the input!
Yes, I have heard that the adventure is EXTREMELY long, though that is one of the things I was looking for. Perhaps I will need some more practice before I and my group will tackle that...
I have not yet heard that the challenge ratings are underestimated, so thanks for that warning. Also for the one with the undead. Yes, the group has one cleric, but perhaps I will get one of them to multiclass another... I hope to keep them alive.
Thank you again on the information.
If your cleric has Greater Turning (Sun domain), there's no need for a second cleric. You need a rogue too (for traps, and make sure he has a search and disable that will allow him to get DC 30+ when he takes 10...) A wizard (or at least someone with 3-5 levels of wizard, like a Ftr4/Wiz4/Bladesinger2) is also required to navigate the various cliffs, gorges, and bottomless pits you'll encounter (i.e. with levitate or spider-climb), unless you have a master climber/jumper in the group. Finally, you need a meat shield. A dwarf fighter/barbarian is perfect (ftr for heavy armor giving high AC, and barbarian for high HP, dwarf for high CON). |
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Moonharp
Acolyte
Canada
38 Posts |
Posted - 06 Sep 2004 : 00:45:45
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Again, thank you for the wonderfully detailed answer!
And, thank you for warning me... or rather, my group should thank you. The rogue part is no problem, as we have a very high level one. The fighting component should be fine as well, as we have a dwarven fighter, who is high level, though I hope to get the him to become a barbarian as well... I guess I will have to make him see the usefulness in it. Wizard we do not have, but a sorcerer... so I guess she will have to do. The cleric has lower turning, but I will advise (through the play) to get the higher version...
PS - Is there a DM screen specifically for this module? Somewhere for download? Or does it come with the miniature set?
Thanks for the information... it is much appreciated. |
Moonharp the Marvelous |
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Purple Dragon Knight
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1796 Posts |
Posted - 06 Sep 2004 : 02:57:22
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| Your dwarf character can also take the Dwarven Defender prestige class from the DMG... that would give him/her d12 HD too, and it's actually better than barbarian! (defensive stance + damage reduction = perfect meat shield) |
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Moonharp
Acolyte
Canada
38 Posts |
Posted - 06 Sep 2004 : 04:12:04
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You know, I am glad you mentioned the defender... I have forgotten about that particular class until now, and I have checked it up in the DMG. Therefore, change of plans... I will try to persuade my character to get that class instead of the barbarian... as it seems especially suited to dwarves, rather than the barbarian class...
Glad you mentioned it! |
Moonharp the Marvelous |
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Zzdtri
Acolyte
Croatia
27 Posts |
Posted - 13 Sep 2004 : 22:09:13
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quote:
Originally posted by Purple Dragon Knight
Your dwarf character can also take the Dwarven Defender prestige class from the DMG... that would give him/her d12 HD too, and it's actually better than barbarian! (defensive stance + damage reduction = perfect meat shield)
You can also put the dwarven defender on Tenser's floating disc and have the wizard/sorcerer (assuming you have one) move him around. When we played COTSQ we planned on using this tactic, but we got TPKd before having the chance to try it out  |
Haley: Hey wait a minute, aren't dark elves evil?
Nale: Oh, my, no. Not since they became a player race. Now the whole species consists of nothing but chaotic good rebels, yearning to throw off the reputation of their evil kin.
Haley: What are the scimitars for?
ZZ'dtri: They're standard issue. |
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Purple Dragon Knight
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1796 Posts |
Posted - 14 Sep 2004 : 09:45:27
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quote:
Originally posted by Zzdtri
quote:
Originally posted by Purple Dragon Knight
Your dwarf character can also take the Dwarven Defender prestige class from the DMG... that would give him/her d12 HD too, and it's actually better than barbarian! (defensive stance + damage reduction = perfect meat shield)
You can also put the dwarven defender on Tenser's floating disc and have the wizard/sorcerer (assuming you have one) move him around. When we played COTSQ we planned on using this tactic, but we got TPKd before having the chance to try it out
 LOL!!
Never thought of that one! that would make for a quite deadly mobile dwarven fortress if I say so myself! 
Nothing in the wording of the Defensive Stance ability suggests that the dwarf must touch the actual ground... it only says he cannot move from his spot... |
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Jeremy
Acolyte
USA
5 Posts |
Posted - 15 Sep 2004 : 06:50:51
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| That's why you have him set his feet on a flying carpet. :) |
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Jeremy
Acolyte
USA
5 Posts |
Posted - 15 Sep 2004 : 06:55:01
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My PC's are in the second chapter of this very combat heavy module, but if you take the time to prepare, the module can be very flexible.
So far the pc's have used guile and stealth quite a bit when the module expects brute force.
But unless your pc's tend to sweep every inch of every structure they ever encounter, there are lots of encounters that they'll never go near because there is no reason to.
Also, tight quarters and the sounds of battle often bring battles in numbers that the pc's, especially if they don't run into every monster in the book, may not be prepared for.
I think I'm going to use the encounters in the web enhancement as well as the add-in module from Dungeon Magazine that work with this mega-module so that they are beefy enough to start winning a few battles with ease and enjoy their power instead of being on the brink of death every single encounter. |
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Zzdtri
Acolyte
Croatia
27 Posts |
Posted - 15 Sep 2004 : 22:24:13
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This is a question directed to Jeremy and/or Purple Dragon Knght.
How did your players cope with deaths? I'm assuming there were some (there certainly were plenty of them when we played). The constant dying was largely responsible for us quitting the adventure. At one point we realized that we should have gained almost two levels, but we were still at 10th. Ok, we were a bit of a circus troupe in the beginning, but as we kept dying we kept coming back with more straightforward and simple (i.e. single class) characters. We got TPKd by Dorina (sp?) IIRC. We still can't figure out how we were supposed to get trough her with the unhallow and dispel effects.
How did you (or rather your players) manage?
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Haley: Hey wait a minute, aren't dark elves evil?
Nale: Oh, my, no. Not since they became a player race. Now the whole species consists of nothing but chaotic good rebels, yearning to throw off the reputation of their evil kin.
Haley: What are the scimitars for?
ZZ'dtri: They're standard issue. |
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Purple Dragon Knight
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1796 Posts |
Posted - 16 Sep 2004 : 04:47:20
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My players just completed Szith Morcane... only one died (the cleric!) and they escaped out of the dungeon, back to Dagger Falls in order to have him Resurrected (they used all the money and magic items they had found so far though... he he he). I told them that the Highpriest of Tyr there cast the Resurrection from a scroll, and that he wasn't high level enough to pull the stunt twice. Needless to say, the cleric's clergy is now in debt to the clergy of Tyr... :)
They came back to Szith Morcane later and finished it.
My group is very experienced though (all veteran gamers from the RPGA so they have played 3E since its release, and they have now two years of 3.5 gaming under their belt -- they have the party tactics down pat) |
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Zzdtri
Acolyte
Croatia
27 Posts |
Posted - 16 Sep 2004 : 07:54:07
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quote:
Originally posted by Purple Dragon Knight
My players just completed Szith Morcane... only one died (the cleric!) and they escaped out of the dungeon, back to Dagger Falls in order to have him Resurrected (they used all the money and magic items they had found so far though... he he he). I told them that the Highpriest of Tyr there cast the Resurrection from a scroll, and that he wasn't high level enough to pull the stunt twice. Needless to say, the cleric's clergy is now in debt to the clergy of Tyr... :)
One of us got killed by save-or-die trap, the rest of us were monster food. I remember the maurezhi encounter was particularly bloody (him being supped-up as he was). There were other bad things that happened to us, but I've tried to put them behind
One of the most annoying things was the ghost. Every time we tried to get by her, one or more of us would get their share of horrific appearances or corrupting gazes. When we weren't returning to the village to recuperate from the ghost, we were returning to raise our dead. In the end it got so bad that the mayor asked us if we could plan our retreats during the night, when none of the villagers could see us. He said it was bad for morale
quote:
They came back to Szith Morcane later and finished it.
My group is very experienced though (all veteran gamers from the RPGA so they have played 3E since its release, and they have now two years of 3.5 gaming under their belt -- they have the party tactics down pat)
Well, we are not inexperienced ourselves. We started playing AD&D about eight years ago, then switched to 3e when it came out, and finally bought our own 3.5 books last summer. Perhaps the problem was that we never tried a published adventure before, let alone an entire campaign.
I would like to give COTSQ another shot, but somehow I don't think my fellow players would agree with me just yet.
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Haley: Hey wait a minute, aren't dark elves evil?
Nale: Oh, my, no. Not since they became a player race. Now the whole species consists of nothing but chaotic good rebels, yearning to throw off the reputation of their evil kin.
Haley: What are the scimitars for?
ZZ'dtri: They're standard issue. |
Edited by - Zzdtri on 16 Sep 2004 08:29:09 |
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Purple Dragon Knight
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1796 Posts |
Posted - 16 Sep 2004 : 23:27:56
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quote:
Originally posted by Zzdtri
One of us got killed by save-or-die trap, the rest of us were monster food. I remember the maurezhi encounter was particularly bloody (him being supped-up as he was). There were other bad things that happened to us, but I've tried to put them behind
One of the most annoying things was the ghost. Every time we tried to get by her, one or more of us would get their share of horrific appearances or corrupting gazes. When we weren't returning to the village to recuperate from the ghost, we were returning to raise our dead. In the end it got so bad that the mayor asked us if we could plan our retreats during the night, when none of the villagers could see us. He said it was bad for morale
About the save-or-die door trap: the mage of the party has Permanency + Arcane Sight, so he doesn't need to worry about casting that pesky Detect Magic spell no more... hence, he immediately saw that the door was glowing with Necromancy magic. The cleric then cast Death Ward on himself and simply strolled inside the ghost's chambers!
As for the ghost itself, when she wailed "Get out of here!", well, they just did... the fight never began... |
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Zzdtri
Acolyte
Croatia
27 Posts |
Posted - 17 Sep 2004 : 22:02:01
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quote:
Originally posted by Purple Dragon Knight
About the save-or-die door trap: the mage of the party has Permanency + Arcane Sight, so he doesn't need to worry about casting that pesky Detect Magic spell no more... hence, he immediately saw that the door was glowing with Necromancy magic. The cleric then cast Death Ward on himself and simply strolled inside the ghost's chambers!
As for the ghost itself, when she wailed "Get out of here!", well, they just did... the fight never began...
Nice one. It looks as though I've finally rolled high on my diplomacy check and we might be starting the campaign again - smarter this time. The rumor has it that we should find a journal left behind by previous adventurers (poor bastards) so we just might pick up where they left off.
On the other hand, maybe it would be nice to create high (18-ish) level characters and just plow trough the drow, (hey it rhymes!)
Payback time!! 
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Haley: Hey wait a minute, aren't dark elves evil?
Nale: Oh, my, no. Not since they became a player race. Now the whole species consists of nothing but chaotic good rebels, yearning to throw off the reputation of their evil kin.
Haley: What are the scimitars for?
ZZ'dtri: They're standard issue. |
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Purple Dragon Knight
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1796 Posts |
Posted - 17 Sep 2004 : 23:27:49
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quote:
Originally posted by Zzdtri
Nice one. It looks as though I've finally rolled high on my diplomacy check and we might be starting the campaign again - smarter this time. The rumor has it that we should find a journal left behind by previous adventurers (poor bastards) so we just might pick up where they left off.
On the other hand, maybe it would be nice to create high (18-ish) level characters and just plow trough the drow, (hey it rhymes!)
Payback time!!
The journal idea is splendid: no need to bore your players to death with a rehash of a previous level (especially since this would be very time-consuming).
However, I do not recommend the high level "plow" scenario: I firmly believe that the problems your group experienced earlier were due to bad party composition... my group (4PCs of 10th-level each) are already plowing through.
I think the secret to a good party, in this module is: a pure mage, a pure cleric, a really heavy hitter (usually achieved through high STR, power attack, and wielding a two-handed weapon), a pure rogue (or if you want to save time, bring a second cleric, like my group did: they decided not to care about traps and just walk through them, devoting this second cleric to trap injuries, while the first cleric deals with battle injuries) |
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Drew
Acolyte
USA
31 Posts |
Posted - 16 Oct 2004 : 20:48:05
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| I'm DM'ing this campaign as well (my first time DM'ing at all), and right now they just got past maerimydra. If you havn't started yet (I'm late to this board) I gotta tip for ya. What I did is "slip a tip" to the cleric to have the silence spell or 2 handy to cast on etrances and exits to stop the sound of battle which keeps that pesky intruder alert from going of, that why especially in the beginning yer 10 lvl caracters dont have 10-15 drow and undead to fight. just a thought, and later on I brought an NPC pixie bard to the group (partly for my own humor) which also can cast silence to stop that sort of thing, because it could get easy to forget |
The noblest fate a man can endure is to place his body between the home he loves, and wars desolation. |
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darqravenDD
Acolyte
7 Posts |
Posted - 05 Feb 2005 : 03:06:41
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Well now this has been interesting to read. I have COTSQ myself but have not fully read thru it yet. But found many interesting things hidden away in its pages. BTW: I loved the floating dwarf idea... I am going have to try that sometime in the game I play in.
Thank you all for insight.
darqravenDD |
Edited by - Alaundo on 05 Feb 2005 10:25:14 |
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Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
Posted - 05 Feb 2005 : 11:20:13
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Running COSQ as well it seems to be very tough, I think Ill get a 5th player for the party maybe my Players will do better with 5 10th level characters in the party
By the way Purple Dragon Knight how is your party doing, I imagine you should have finished COSQ by now?
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“I am the King of Rome, and above grammar”
Emperor Sigismund
"Its good to be the King!"
Mel Brooks |
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Chosen of Bane
Senior Scribe
USA
552 Posts |
Posted - 08 Feb 2005 : 02:38:16
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I ran this module for my group about a year ago, it was one of the best campaigns our group has had. First of all, we like characters to be a little powerful so we roll 3 sets of stats (standard 4d6, drop the lowest) and choose the one we like the best. We also had a huge party (7 PC's) so our party was very well equipped to handle the challenges. Because of this, I beefed up most of the encounters a lot.
We did face a great deal of party death but it was okay. With the amount of loot the party finds in the underdark I think of True Res as a high level, very expensive heal spell. And too be honest, if you don't blow the 20+ thousand gold on true res the loot gets way out of hand. So, in my opinion death in a campaign this high level is not such a bad thing. I know EVERY PC died AT LEAST once and they all seemed to love the challenge.
Additions I made to the module that my players seemed to like a lot...
When the party came across the drow corpses at the entrance of the Dordrien Crypts, one of them was still breathing and when the Paladin detected evil it did not register. The party healed the female drow and got some info from her. She posed as a priestess of Elistre and asked to accompany them. They assumed I was running an NPC but in reality she had a ring of undetectable alignment and was the lover of one of the Driders before he turned into a Drider. So, she was lured the party into a nice trap. I still remember their faces when she flame struck the Paladin in the middle of the combat. They totally didn't see it coming because she was with them from a couple of sessions and helping them a lot.
The other change I made was adding 7 levels of Psion to the Mind Flayer that was allied with the Beholder. This encounter was the closest we ever came to a TPK. The next closes was actually a random encounter with Barbed Devils before the party invested in Holy weapons.
Oh yeah, I restatted pretty much every significant NPC using the same character creation method as the players used. If I left Irae as she was the party would have made short work of her. Instead I made her a 20th level Cleric with a Periapt +6, all of her ability increases in WIS, and she had an inherent bonus of +3 from Tome of Understandings, giving her a WIS of 32 and really tough DC's. I think she imploded 2 party members. I just found it hard to believe that the head of a cult that controls a city wouldn't have a periapt +6.
These are just my thoughts on the module, I know my whole party loved it. |
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warlockco
Master of Realmslore
USA
1695 Posts |
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Octa
Learned Scribe
USA
138 Posts |
Posted - 14 Feb 2005 : 17:03:37
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It was nice to see a module that really paid the PCs for having a high level cleric, and where the really goody twoshoes character types like paladin could really shine.
I think this module really depends on the DM, If you play the Drow smart it can be a reall killer, but so many just let them sit and wait to die.
Also, with all those sleep poison dosed crossbows how did any of the mages make it through, neutralize poison before the battle...
And here is another question after your PCs get out they are pretty optimized for certain kinds of foes, i.e. undead and demons and drow, how did they fare on the other adventures you sent them on. Specifically did you send them into the bastion of broken souls?? |
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Knight of the Gate
Senior Scribe
USA
624 Posts |
Posted - 05 May 2009 : 22:40:59
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Annnnd.... Raise Thread!
Has anyone run this recently? I just did, and was really pleased with it- I generally write my own stuff, but on the recommendation of a fellow DM, I tried this thing out and my PCs loved it. I had to do a lot of converting to buff it up (Using 3.5 haste rules, as pointed out above, nerfs this module signifigantly) but it was totally worth it.
The question Octa put forth (above) is relevant, as well... the paladin (of Kelemvor) with a sunblade and many, many smites is now quite moritfied that she does a 'mere' 29-39 damage with a swing, as opposed to the double damage that the sunblade does to undead! |
How can life be so bountiful, providing such sublime rewards for mediocrity? -Umberto Ecco |
Edited by - Knight of the Gate on 05 May 2009 22:43:52 |
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edappel
Learned Scribe
Brazil
211 Posts |
Posted - 06 May 2009 : 15:00:45
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I'm thinking of trying to use this campaign at 4th edition..
Well.. Let's see what happens.. |
--- Ed Appel
*** I'm a brazilian FR fan. So, feel free to correct my writing mistakes to improve my english. |
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Kairin
Acolyte
40 Posts |
Posted - 09 May 2009 : 07:28:12
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I've been considering a printed campaign too.. My problem is that I run a game for only two players, both optimizers. Optimazer1 always plays some kind of CoDzilla. Optimizer2 always plays some kind of gish fighter, going for pure damage.
So I guess I wonder two things... Is it possible to run City of the Spider Queen with only two players? And are the enemies optimized enough to offer a challenge for my min-maxers? |
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edappel
Learned Scribe
Brazil
211 Posts |
Posted - 22 May 2009 : 17:38:41
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After reading CotSQ... I realize how sorrow I am for playing 4th edidion...
Good times when my group were playing 3rd... |
--- Ed Appel
*** I'm a brazilian FR fan. So, feel free to correct my writing mistakes to improve my english. |
Edited by - edappel on 22 May 2009 17:40:15 |
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Knight of the Gate
Senior Scribe
USA
624 Posts |
Posted - 23 May 2009 : 01:32:30
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quote:
Originally posted by Kairin
I've been considering a printed campaign too.. My problem is that I run a game for only two players, both optimizers. Optimazer1 always plays some kind of CoDzilla. Optimizer2 always plays some kind of gish fighter, going for pure damage.
So I guess I wonder two things... Is it possible to run City of the Spider Queen with only two players? And are the enemies optimized enough to offer a challenge for my min-maxers?
Sorry, Kairin- I just saw your question today. I'd say that this mod is extremely challenging for a party of four, but if your two players are hyper min-maxers they can likely take it- the problem is that with two players, the chance of a TPW is really high. The key here is that since most of the combat takes place in built-up areas, a lot of the challenge comes from the old 'you initiated combat in room 1A, which alerted the sentries in rooms 2A, and 3A , each of which sent runners to two other rooms before responding' scenario. If it's mounting too fast, the reinforcements can always 'get held up' or just not make the listen roll in the first place. Good Luck! |
How can life be so bountiful, providing such sublime rewards for mediocrity? -Umberto Ecco |
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City of Spider Queen...
