| Author |
 Topic  |
|
|
Echon
Senior Scribe
Denmark
422 Posts |
 Posted - 09 Dec 2002 : 21:09:32
|
I have been unsuccesful in the attempt to find any rules about weapons suitable for backstabbing. So far I have looked in Player's Handbook, Dungeon Master's Guide and The Complete Thief's Handbook.
Currently I have allowed thieves the usage of knives, daggers and short swords. In Baldur's Gate it was possible to backstab with long swords, scimitars and katanas as well but they may have made that up.
What do the official rules say?
-Echon
|
"If others had not been foolish, we should be so."
-William Blake |
|
|
Lord Rad
Great Reader
United Kingdom
2080 Posts |
Posted - 09 Dec 2002 : 21:15:22
|
I havent seen anything official but I suppose I always imagined it to be a SMALL weapon such as a dagger as it can be gripped and wielded close to the opponents body. Saying that, a Short Sword is classed as a size S but has more of a sweeping attack rather than a lunge and stabbing action. It depends if you look at it practically or just as a rule mechanic.
Then again, (im probably not helping here with my post  ), backstabbing doesnt necessarily mean backSTABBING, merely a rear undetected attack using stealth, in which case a long sword as you mention would be perfectly acceptable.
Personally im going to stick to only allowing small weapons that dont require a swinging action (i.e. daggers!) |
Lord Rad
"What? No, I wasn't reading your module. I was just looking at the pictures"
|
 |
|
|
Echon
Senior Scribe
Denmark
422 Posts |
Posted - 09 Dec 2002 : 21:25:55
|
quote:
Originally posted by Rad
I havent seen anything official but I suppose I always imagined it to be a SMALL weapon such as a dagger as it can be gripped and wielded close to the opponents body. Saying that, a Short Sword is classed as a size S but has more of a sweeping attack rather than a lunge and stabbing action. It depends if you look at it practically or just as a rule mechanic.
The damage type of a short sword is piercing and not slashing which indicates a thrust and not a swing. Still, it is a matter of preference.
quote:
Then again, (im probably not helping here with my post ), backstabbing doesnt necessarily mean backSTABBING, merely a rear undetected attack using stealth, in which case a long sword as you mention would be perfectly acceptable.
Absolutely true. However, a problem arises if allowing a long sword because then some player is going to argue that a broad sword could be used and then a two-handed sword etc.
Regarding the backstabbing, using a blunt weapon such a club might knock a person unconscious.
quote:
Personally im going to stick to only allowing small weapons that dont require a swinging action (i.e. daggers!)
I was considering allowing a spear, the small, one-handed type. Then again, perhaps I should not. Things could easily get out of control.
-Echon |
"If others had not been foolish, we should be so."
-William Blake |
|
|
|
Frey
Learned Scribe
130 Posts |
Posted - 10 Dec 2002 : 23:04:38
|
I stab with anything. A nail will do and an arrow will do better. Just be creative and imagine a picture of the action. knitting-needles, letter openers, ballpoints, loads of agricultural tools.
But what is a ballpoint?
When in doubt, consult your DM |
- Imagine ... there's no imagination. -
(remember Frey is just a PC) |
Edited by - Frey on 10 Dec 2002 23:05:37 |
|
|
|
Frey
Learned Scribe
130 Posts |
Posted - 10 Dec 2002 : 23:08:49
|
quote:
Originally posted by Frey
When in doubt, consult your DM
Sorry, forgot where I was |
- Imagine ... there's no imagination. -
(remember Frey is just a PC) |
|
|
|
Cherrn
Learned Scribe
Denmark
323 Posts |
Posted - 11 Dec 2002 : 03:16:39
|
| How about any weapon that can be used in 1 hand without special training ?(Leaves bastard sword out) Thats the formula i always used with regards to backstabbin'. |
A wise man from Calimport once told me: "If a merchant puts sand in the flask of oil he's trying to sell you, then he isn't trying to sell you sand..." |
|
|
|
Echon
Senior Scribe
Denmark
422 Posts |
Posted - 11 Dec 2002 : 08:39:03
|
quote:
Originally posted by Frey
When in doubt, consult your DM
The problem is that I am the DM. Who do DMs go to consult?
-Echon |
"If others had not been foolish, we should be so."
-William Blake |
Edited by - Echon on 11 Dec 2002 08:39:48 |
|
|
|
Echon
Senior Scribe
Denmark
422 Posts |
Posted - 11 Dec 2002 : 08:41:17
|
quote:
Originally posted by Cherrn
How about any weapon that can be used in 1 hand without special training ?(Leaves bastard sword out) Thats the formula i always used with regards to backstabbin'.
I suppose that rule is a 3E thingy?
-Echon |
"If others had not been foolish, we should be so."
-William Blake |
|
|
|
Mumadar Ibn Huzal
Master of Realmslore
1338 Posts |
Posted - 11 Dec 2002 : 09:01:29
|
That's not really a 3e rule. Actually the term backstabbing as an attack no longer exists in 3e. It is now called a sneak attack, and can be used with any melee weapon, provided the circumstances are there and the character in question does have the ability to make a sneak attack.
For second edition, I could imagine ruling more or less the same, any melee weapon goes. But the speedfactor of the weapon could serve as a penalty, making a two-handed sword a lot less likely to be used in a backstab attack... |
|
|
|
Ghost
Acolyte
Netherlands
38 Posts |
Posted - 11 Dec 2002 : 18:40:01
|
In 3e you can also 'sneak attack' with a ranged weapon, within a certain range (standard range is 30 ft).
In 2e, I would suggest that you can 'backstab' with any melee weapon from the thief weapon list. This includes the long sword (for medium characters), but excludes the 2-handed sword. |
The way of a superior man are three-fold;
virtuous, he is free from anxieties;
wise, he is free from perplexities;
bold, he is free from fear. ~ Confucius
|
Edited by - Ghost on 11 Dec 2002 18:40:25 |
|
|
|
Ghost
Acolyte
Netherlands
38 Posts |
Posted - 11 Dec 2002 : 18:44:26
|
quote:
Originally posted by Frey
I stab with anything. A nail will do and an arrow will do better. Just be creative and imagine a picture of the action. knitting-needles, letter openers, ballpoints, loads of agricultural tools.
But what is a ballpoint?
When in doubt, consult your DM
An arrow is not really a good choice. If you hold onto the shaft of the arrow close to the point, it will not penetrate very far. If you place your hand further from the point, the shaft of the arrow may snap, instead of entering the body. Better to use a bolt in such cases.. |
The way of a superior man are three-fold;
virtuous, he is free from anxieties;
wise, he is free from perplexities;
bold, he is free from fear. ~ Confucius
|
|
|
|
Artalis
Senior Scribe
USA
444 Posts |
Posted - 19 Dec 2002 : 22:25:45
|
In my opinion Backstabbing is based on the knowledge of anatomy. Specifically where one can do the most damage with an attack against an unaware opponent. Therefore I allow any weapon that can be brought to bear stealthily to be used. (no flails since the chain makes noise and so on...)
A hammer can be used a the base of the skull or the temple, a blade of any kind between the ribs and shoulder blades and so on. It's all about knowing your opponents physiology.
With that in mind I don't allow backstab attacks with damage multipliers against non-humaniod opponents whom the backstabber doesn't know the physiology of like a dragon for a thief who hasn't studied or fought one before. |
Artalis
Email
|
|
|
|
Kitira Gildragon
Learned Scribe
USA
191 Posts |
Posted - 20 Dec 2002 : 12:50:08
|
Hmmm. You pose a good question. Were I a DM, I think I would limit the use of backstabbing weapons to small weapons including the short sword. I used the Sword +3 of backstabbing (can't remember if it was a short or long sword...HELP!) and dagger of venom with my theif.  <Talk about heaven...>
As for the backstabbing, I believe it's just that. Not an unguarded attack [ie. slash], but a physical STAB.
Just my 2cp  |
-Space for rent- |
|
|
|
Echon
Senior Scribe
Denmark
422 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jan 2003 : 12:50:21
|
(2nd Edition)
Player's Handbook claims that the bonus for a rear attack when backstabbing is +4 while Dungeon Master's Guide says only +2. Which is true?
-Echon |
"If others had not been foolish, we should be so."
-William Blake |
|
|
| |
Topic |
|
Backstabbing
