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Artalis
Senior Scribe
USA
444 Posts |
 Posted - 06 Dec 2002 : 20:41:09
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Does anyone know the proper proceedures for slaying a demipower in its own realm (ie. permanently)
I have a really powerfull character with a serious mad-on against Lolth and the Ityak-Ortheel.
Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks,
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Artalis
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zemd
Master of Realmslore
France
1103 Posts |
Posted - 08 Dec 2002 : 11:07:25
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HE wants to KILL the spider queen?!
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He gonna die! |
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Artalis
Senior Scribe
USA
444 Posts |
Posted - 08 Dec 2002 : 15:50:22
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zemd Posted - 08 Dec 2002 : 11:07:25
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HE wants to KILL the spider queen?!
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He gonna die!
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Not really- he came really close a few years ago. His stats are here
But besides your feelings about his imminent demise do you know where
I can find the listed conditions for slaying a demipower? I have Powers and Pantheons which refers to said conditions but does not list or explain.
Any help would be appreciated. Thanks |
Artalis
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Edited by - Artalis on 24 Dec 2002 15:54:54 |
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Mumadar Ibn Huzal
Master of Realmslore
1338 Posts |
Posted - 09 Dec 2002 : 10:35:35
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| I believe the generic 3e gods book (Deities & Demigods IIRC) holds some answers to your question. The Faiths & Pantheons book has some bits and pieces of said reference in the introduction pages, but the generic book has more complete information for situations as you describe. |
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Artalis
Senior Scribe
USA
444 Posts |
Posted - 09 Dec 2002 : 17:33:39
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Mumadar Ibn Huzal Posted - 09 Dec 2002 : 10:35:35
I believe the generic 3e gods book (Deities & Demigods IIRC) holds some answers to your question. The Faiths & Pantheons book has some bits and pieces of said reference in the introduction pages, but the generic book has more complete information for situations as you describe.
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My thanks Mumadar Ibn Huzal, a gentleman and a scholar you are indeed. |
Artalis
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The Great Drizzt
Learned Scribe
USA
280 Posts |
Posted - 10 Dec 2002 : 05:26:31
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Well I know a sure fire way to kill anything, even Ao!
If you give your own life essense willingly, with the proper wish spell correctly worded, you can do anything you want!
Also, if you can get someones trapped soul(has to be pure) and present the situation in a prayer to your god, and your need/excuse is valid, you can have your own god slay the other one, and Lloth by your example can't do anything to stop him/her!
This is all true, I've read it in a Nethrese campaign book for 2Ed.
The Great Drizzt
P.S.-"Long live Lloth/Lolth and the Drow!" |
"Don't poke Drizzt, 'tis highly unsociable!" Drizzt Do'Urden -BG1 |
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Echon
Senior Scribe
Denmark
422 Posts |
Posted - 10 Dec 2002 : 09:19:54
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quote:
Originally posted by The Great Drizzt
Well I know a sure fire way to kill anything, even Ao!
If you give your own life essense willingly, with the proper wish spell correctly worded, you can do anything you want!
Also, if you can get someones trapped soul(has to be pure) and present the situation in a prayer to your god, and your need/excuse is valid, you can have your own god slay the other one, and Lloth by your example can't do anything to stop him/her!
This is all true, I've read it in a Nethrese campaign book for 2Ed.
The Great Drizzt
P.S.-"Long live Lloth/Lolth and the Drow!"
That seems rather highpowered... do not tell me that it is possible to be brough back to life after giving one's life away like that?
-Echon |
"If others had not been foolish, we should be so."
-William Blake |
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Artalis
Senior Scribe
USA
444 Posts |
Posted - 10 Dec 2002 : 14:44:44
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The Great Drizzt Posted - 10 Dec 2002 : 05:26:31
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Well I know a sure fire way to kill anything, even Ao!
If you give your own life essense willingly, with the proper wish spell correctly worded, you can do anything you want!
Also, if you can get someones trapped soul(has to be pure) and present the situation in a prayer to your god, and your need/excuse is valid, you can have your own god slay the other one, and Lloth by your example can't do anything to stop him/her!
This is all true, I've read it in a Nethrese campaign book for 2Ed.
The Great Drizzt
P.S.-"Long live Lloth/Lolth and the Drow!"
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Artalis Posted - 09 Dec 2002 : 17:33:39
I dunno, I appreciate the input but I am looking for something a little more balanced. It seems a little easy to just wish it away or have someone else do it. (even if the someone else is a god).
The character in question would not throw his lifeforce away either even for such a purpose, he has far too many other things to take care of to just kamakaze like that. Thanks all for the responses keep 'em coming.
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Artalis
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The Great Drizzt
Learned Scribe
USA
280 Posts |
Posted - 11 Dec 2002 : 06:30:33
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No, you can't be brought back to life, because your soul is trapped elsewhere and can't be brought back to your body.
It's not as easy as I mentioned, It's alot harder if you read it, I will try to find the book and tell you about it or give you a link to where I find it, It's rather hard!
The Great Drizzt |
"Don't poke Drizzt, 'tis highly unsociable!" Drizzt Do'Urden -BG1 |
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lowtech
Learned Scribe
USA
315 Posts |
Posted - 12 Dec 2002 : 17:37:48
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You realize that Lolth is an Intermediate Power, right? Killing a demipower is completely different. Unless...
In Toril, Lolth has assumed the aspect of Zinzerina, goddess of Assassins as an experiment to see whether having weaker aliases grants her more or less power. You could have your character destroy that aspect of Lolth, possibly weakening her to the (temporary) status of a Lesser Power. At that point, Vhaeraun, Ghuanadar, and any other Drow Power of Lesser status could rebel against her dominance. |
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Artalis
Senior Scribe
USA
444 Posts |
Posted - 12 Dec 2002 : 17:46:30
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That's actually quite helpful, I thought the proceedures and requirements would be the same to slay any "divine" creature.
Apparently I am misinformed.
Has anyone actually seen these requirements?
I was reading up on the Ityak-Ortheel (the elf-eater) and it says the only way to slay it is to hunt it down on it's own plane and if conditions for slaying a demipower were met. Otherwise it rematerializes in 10 years. I can not find these conditions, are they by individual campaign? |
Artalis
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Mumadar Ibn Huzal
Master of Realmslore
1338 Posts |
Posted - 12 Dec 2002 : 17:52:24
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| I'll refer back to my earlier answer on your question. The 'procedure' is more detailed in the 3rd edition 'generic' gods book. It explains the differences in the various powers as well as to how (relatively) powerfull a character/group needs to be to 'kill' a power. |
Edited by - Mumadar Ibn Huzal on 12 Dec 2002 17:53:15 |
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lowtech
Learned Scribe
USA
315 Posts |
Posted - 12 Dec 2002 : 17:57:31
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I don't remember the technical aspects, but I think you need to use an extremely powerful artifact on a demipower's home plane. There's probably more to it than that, though.
Have you read the Evermeet novel yet? They did something involving the Elf-Eater and Lolth that was pretty interesting...
I would suggest you manipulate events so that the Elf-Eater and an Orc God are in the same vicinity (its theorized that it has an appettite for Orcs as well). Shortly before the Orc God kills the Elf-Eater, have a wizard banish it back to its home plane, where Nighteyes would follow. It would be weakened and vulnerable on its own plane. |
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The Great Drizzt
Learned Scribe
USA
280 Posts |
Posted - 13 Dec 2002 : 06:41:43
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Are the gods laughing at us right now for plotting against them!?
If so, I need to build a bunker somewhere deep underground!
"Run away, run away!" - Monty Python and the quest for the Holy Grail
The Great Drizzt |
"Don't poke Drizzt, 'tis highly unsociable!" Drizzt Do'Urden -BG1 |
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Salius Kai
Learned Scribe
USA
217 Posts |
Posted - 24 Dec 2002 : 16:48:28
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| I don't think Its would be right to slay a demi-power. Whole civilizations are based on them and you could throw the whole world into Chaos. Or, in this case just the underworld. But still. |
"Welcome to these walls of infinite knowledge."
Salius Kai |
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darkflame millithor
Seeker
USA
52 Posts |
Posted - 03 May 2006 : 10:44:53
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Your blade singer is even mightyer than my own! too bad he's a faery elf. Any way you just need to catch them on their home plane and strike thjem down with an artifact.but that wont work with lolth (she's intermedeate).I know she will kill you blade singer,because she can have muliple avatars attack you a once,plus a whole bunch of feinds,spiders,and artifacts of her own.
Plus she can always act first,pass her saving throws,anticipate your actions. I have fought her,and my character is 20lvlwildmage,3lvlarchmage,2ndlvl epic,I beat her avatars but I used a wish spell to make her divine mind forget the battle,because she said she'd send 100 true tanari to murder me in my revery(sleep)and I knew she would as soon as I slept.Lolth doesn't make idle threats and she never forgives! good luck!if you beat her you dm is not doing his job.no offence.Maybe if you had the cresent blade of the dancing harlot,or godsbane. |
purge all weakness in the cleanzing flame of
rightousness.tear down the false idols of love,compassion,and self-sacrifice.down with the tyranny of the seldarine |
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Jamallo Kreen
Master of Realmslore
USA
1537 Posts |
Posted - 05 May 2006 : 00:12:27
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quote:
Originally posted by Artalis
Does anyone know the proper proceedures for slaying a demipower in its own realm (ie. permanently)
I have a really powerfull character with a serious mad-on against Lolth and the Ityak-Ortheel.
Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks,
The easiest way would be to eliminate all of the Power's worshippers. To do that ... hmmmm ... I quote Sir Arthur C. Clark: "Okay kiddies, first you take your uranium hexaflouride...."
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I have a mouth, but I am in a library and must not scream.
Feed the poor and stroke your ego, too: http://www.freerice.com/index.php.
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Chataro
Learned Scribe
Singapore
114 Posts |
Posted - 10 May 2006 : 12:08:03
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| Would it help first if u try to destroy the god's worshippers and temples? |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36803 Posts |
Posted - 10 May 2006 : 17:20:53
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quote:
Originally posted by Chataro
Would it help first if u try to destroy the god's worshippers and temples?
Indeed it would. But that's still a very tall order. Most deities will have thousands of worshippers, if not more... And once someone starts killing off large numbers of those worshippers, you can bet the deity is going to start sending high-level champions and divine servants to stop the offender. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31772 Posts |
Posted - 11 May 2006 : 00:51:36
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Chataro
Would it help first if u try to destroy the god's worshippers and temples?
Indeed it would. But that's still a very tall order. Most deities will have thousands of worshippers, if not more... And once someone starts killing off large numbers of those worshippers, you can bet the deity is going to start sending high-level champions and divine servants to stop the offender.
Indeed. Let us also not forget about standard temple defenses (such as wards and other protective magicks) and any militant orders tied to the clergy and/or power who are charged specifically with the protection of holy centres important to that particular deity. Such aspects would present major obstacles to any plan which considers attacking a deity through its worshipper base.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
Edited by - The Sage on 11 May 2006 00:53:19 |
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Shadovar
Senior Scribe
785 Posts |
Posted - 11 May 2006 : 02:09:25
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quote:
Originally posted by Chataro
Would it help first if u try to destroy the god's worshippers and temples?
Yes, it is possible for deities would slowly perish from lack of followers according to Ao's ruling, but it would be a long-term campaign to eliminate the deities by destroying their worshippers and temples, best to influence the worshippers by seeding heretics, creating false beliefs and conflicting ideals and try to make them become faithless in their patron, this is a better way to rob the deity of worshippers than killing them-killing would energize the mob into fighting like fanatics. Desecrating temples are good but temples without followers and priests are almost useless. |
We have fostered trust, recruited loyalty, and gathered the faithful. We have trained thousands. Our legions can cover the land, fill the sky and travel through the darkness. We can hunt any and all that would deny our heritage. Now is our time, now is the time of the Dark Reign(Rain) of the Empire of Shadows.
- High Prince Telemont Tanthul, Lord Shadow
In a speech given to the citizens of Shade Enclave
At the celebration of the Shinantra Battle victory when he revealed that he was THE Lord Shadow of legend. |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 11 May 2006 : 02:15:16
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| I'll mention it again. That ruling had to exist before the ToT's, or Amaunator would never had died since we know that he died due to a lack of worship. :) Silly TSR and their retcons. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31772 Posts |
Posted - 11 May 2006 : 02:32:32
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Indeed.
Amaunator died of neglect -- which tells you that the power of worshipper faith was just as integral then as it is post-ToT. We know that people simply stopped worshipping him to the point where he could no longer maintain his "Keep of the Sun" with his divine energy and thus was forced to recede into the Astral.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Mr. Wilson
Seeker
USA
73 Posts |
Posted - 11 May 2006 : 11:28:54
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| I'm pretty sure that in the Realms, only a deity can slay another deity. So, your first action should be attaining a demi-god status. |
"I've got a plan..."- Dan
"Nothing good has ever come after those four words." - Jesse |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36803 Posts |
Posted - 11 May 2006 : 17:17:40
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quote:
Originally posted by Mr. Wilson
I'm pretty sure that in the Realms, only a deity can slay another deity. So, your first action should be attaining a demi-god status.
Nope, mortals can slay deities, but they need divine assistance. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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darkflame millithor
Seeker
USA
52 Posts |
Posted - 11 May 2006 : 18:14:44
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heh Artalis, have you slain the Dark Empress of spiders yet? DId you have something to do with her
going silent(black lighten crackles at finger-tips,halo of flames flares at my brow.)
That was being greedy,you shouldn't have hurt her so bad. Some of us wanted to get their shots in too! Oh well I quess I'll have to go after Kiaransalee! |
purge all weakness in the cleanzing flame of
rightousness.tear down the false idols of love,compassion,and self-sacrifice.down with the tyranny of the seldarine |
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Chataro
Learned Scribe
Singapore
114 Posts |
Posted - 18 Oct 2007 : 15:18:33
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| They don't really need any divine assistance, FInder Wyvernspur didn't really have any divine assistance when he destroyed Moander. And i believe Moander was more than a demi power. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36803 Posts |
Posted - 18 Oct 2007 : 15:54:54
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quote:
Originally posted by Chataro
They don't really need any divine assistance, FInder Wyvernspur didn't really have any divine assistance when he destroyed Moander. And i believe Moander was more than a demi power.
He had Tymora's assistance. It is speculated that it was her revenge for the corruption of Tyche.
And it has been explicitly stated, more than once, that divine assistance is required for a mortal to slay a deity. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 18 Oct 2007 15:57:15 |
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Kheris
Seeker
USA
50 Posts |
Posted - 18 Oct 2007 : 16:04:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Chataro
They don't really need any divine assistance, FInder Wyvernspur didn't really have any divine assistance when he destroyed Moander. And i believe Moander was more than a demi power.
He had Tymora's assistance. It is speculated that it was her revenge for the corruption of Tyche.
And it has been explicitly stated, more than once, that divine assistance is required for a mortal to slay a deity.
Well then, you need a deity willing to help... Perhaps the Seldarine would have someone willing to lend a hand?
You just need that and the Scepter of the Sorcerer Kings hidden in a candy gram...  |
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Charles Phipps
Master of Realmslore
1425 Posts |
Posted - 18 Oct 2007 : 16:09:31
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If you want to slay Lolth, here's the following things you need to do.
* Get the backing of Elistrae or one of the Seldarine (like Shelvaresh)
* Get an artifact like the Scepter of the Sorcerer Kings or other awesomely powerful device.
* either attack her when she's weakest (like during the Silence or Troubles)
Or
* Help raise an army to start destroying her followers. Maybe get an army of Devas to invade the Demonweb pits.
But yeah, Queen of the Demonweb Pits is pretty inaccurate now but the basic gist behind it and Vault of the Drow should allow you to put an end to the Spider Queen.
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My Blog: http://unitedfederationofcharles.blogspot.com/
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Kheris
Seeker
USA
50 Posts |
Posted - 18 Oct 2007 : 16:19:44
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quote:
Originally posted by Charles Phipps
If you want to slay Lolth, here's the following things you need to do.
* Get the backing of Elistrae or one of the Seldarine (like Shelvaresh)
* Get an artifact like the Scepter of the Sorcerer Kings or other awesomely powerful device.
* either attack her when she's weakest (like during the Silence or Troubles)
Or
* Help raise an army to start destroying her followers. Maybe get an army of Devas to invade the Demonweb pits.
But yeah, Queen of the Demonweb Pits is pretty inaccurate now but the basic gist behind it and Vault of the Drow should allow you to put an end to the Spider Queen.
Charles, is it wrong that I picture the Scepter being hidden in a wrapped, spring-loaded giftbox?
Because I am, and that image is making me think of a commercial for Raid.
*Lloth slinks down to a corner of her web, shaking from the addition of a present*
"Don't open until Midwinter? From my secret admirer?" *shaking the gift, looking around*
"Pfft... Like anyone will know..." *Lloth opens the gift*
*sproing* "RAAAAIIID?!" *boom*
Perhaps I need more coffee... Or sleep. |
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Proceedures for slaying a demipower
