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brjr2001
Learned Scribe
106 Posts |
 Posted - 25 Jul 2004 : 07:55:54
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Why is it that i look and look all around the book stores all the time and i find everything i could possibly but when i look for good Forgotten Realms books im always at a lost, i always ALWAYS see books about elves and humans has anyone made a book about Halflings and gnomes (LORD OF THE RINGS DOESN'T COUNT NOT A FR BOOK)
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Winterfox
Senior Scribe
895 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jul 2004 : 10:48:02
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Mmm.
Shadow's Witness features a halfling. The adventurer band in The Rage has a smart-mouthed halfling warslinger. Azure Bonds has Olive Ruskettle, a rather cute halfling bard.
Gnomes... You'd have better luck with Dragonlance. Heh. |
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Senbar Flay
Learned Scribe
185 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jul 2004 : 15:16:45
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| I think most people tend to overlook gnomes literaly and because they don't seem to have accomplished much but I still beleove they are important . so there must be some gnomes out there check some older series. |
Imagination is more important than knowledge for knowledge is limited imagination encircles the world.- Albert Einstein |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36798 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jul 2004 : 15:47:10
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I think a book about gnomes and halflings would, by definition, be a short book. 
*starts ducking the incoming projectiles*  |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jul 2004 : 17:00:44
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I think a book about gnomes and halflings would, by definition, be a short book.
*starts ducking the incoming projectiles*
with brief dialogue? |
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Steven Schend
Forgotten Realms Designer & Author
USA
1714 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jul 2004 : 22:45:00
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quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlack
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I think a book about gnomes and halflings would, by definition, be a short book.
*starts ducking the incoming projectiles*
with brief dialogue?
Only the gnomes; everyone possessed of true Realmslore knows that the hin/halflings "go commando." 
One of the best halflings of FR lore: Foxilon Cardluck of the Realmsmaster crew (FR Comics 1-24; 1989-1991).
Steven
Who unleashed the Buckleswashers on an unsuspecting Waterdeep in 1993 |
For current projects and general natter, see www.steveneschend.com
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brjr2001
Learned Scribe
106 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jul 2004 : 00:43:04
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| lol Short book but you have to keep in mind that Gnomes do alot of things for the Realms. They are the Inventers and they create rather Brillaint stuff like a flyable submarine |
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Aldrick the Nightblade
Acolyte
37 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jul 2004 : 00:51:56
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| Another reason stores are a bad place to buy FR books ( i don't know if its because of the distribution numbers or something else) but when I go to the store to buy a certain book, they never have it there for me...a good example is the fourth book in the War of the Spider Queen series....They never have that!! |
"Turn your face to the shadows, and let the sun fall behind you" |
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Talwyn
Learned Scribe
Australia
222 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jul 2004 : 01:13:31
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Yes, I always thought halfings & gnomes often get short changed in most fantasy stories
They are there as comic relief most of the time. Regis is one of the few halfings who has quite a dark background and is not played as a bumbling side kick. |
Over the centuries, mankind has tried many ways of combating the forces of evil...prayer, fasting, good works and so on.
Up until Doom, no one seemed to have thought about the double-barrel shotgun.
EAT LEADEN DEATH DEMON!
Terry Pratchett
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Edited by - Talwyn on 26 Jul 2004 01:14:38 |
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Sarelle
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
508 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jul 2004 : 01:31:04
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I think it's because nobody knows what to do with gnomes. Halflings (wasn't there another in the Azure Bonds series?) have a bit of a violent past, and thus can develop an interesting background (also they are rogues, which give them footholds in the "dark history as a member of a thief guild" etc.)
Gnomes have no history, and the only personality is from Dragonlance, where they feature as comic relief most of the time, or the real world, where gnomes are always either amusing or harmless. Its all very well saying that gnomes are the "Forgotten Folk", but that shouldn't mean that they are meant to be forgotten.
One avenue would be to develop a gnome character as a focused spellcaster... maybe with a short fuse!  (Couldn't resist) |
Chair of the The Rightful Return of Monster Deities to FR Society (RRMDFRS)
My character, drawn by Liodain: Sarelle / Sarelle (smaller) |
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AlacLuin
Learned Scribe
131 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jul 2004 : 03:02:16
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Maybe WotC could start out by doing an anthology about gnomes.
A book full of short stories. |
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Aldrick the Nightblade
Acolyte
37 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jul 2004 : 03:35:05
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| Yes, they should start doing race limited books...the only one I know of is the Evermeet book. Dwarfs, gnomes, halflings, and giants are some of these. They also should do some class limited books, such as assassins or highwaymen... |
"Turn your face to the shadows, and let the sun fall behind you" |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jul 2004 : 04:07:23
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quote:
Originally posted by Aldrick the Nightblade
They also should do some class limited books, such as assassins or highwaymen...
Haven't they already started doing that  |
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brjr2001
Learned Scribe
106 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jul 2004 : 05:49:48
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| i belive so lol |
on second thought lets not go to candlekeep it is a silly place |
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VEDSICA
Senior Scribe
USA
466 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jul 2004 : 06:18:20
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| Hey they don't even have a good novel dealing with just Dwarves.I don't see one coming in the near future either.So gnomes are definitely out.IMO |
LIFE,BIRTH,BLOOD,DOOM---THE HOLE IN THE GROUND IS COMING ROUND SOON----BLS |
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Winterfox
Senior Scribe
895 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jul 2004 : 06:34:26
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quote:
Originally posted by VEDSICA
Hey they don't even have a good novel dealing with just Dwarves.I don't see one coming in the near future either.So gnomes are definitely out.IMO
Dwarves are often played as comic relief figures, too. Many of the Drizzt books feature dwarves, but too many of them are just there to provide slapstick humor. Let's not even go into Cleric Quintet. Or, heck, the LOTR movies. (Gimli, poor Gimli. His characterization in the films makes Baby Aulë cry.) |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36798 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jul 2004 : 06:35:41
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quote:
Originally posted by Steven Schend
quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlack
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I think a book about gnomes and halflings would, by definition, be a short book.
*starts ducking the incoming projectiles*
with brief dialogue?
Only the gnomes; everyone possessed of true Realmslore knows that the hin/halflings "go commando."
TMI!
Steven Schend, master of the Realmslore you didn't really want to know...
quote:
Originally posted by Steven Schend
One of the best halflings of FR lore: Foxilon Cardluck of the Realmsmaster crew (FR Comics 1-24; 1989-1991).
Steven
Who unleashed the Buckleswashers on an unsuspecting Waterdeep in 1993
I liked the Buckleswashers! 
You're right, Foxy was a really cool character. I especially liked it when he inflicted his "fashion sense" on Priam Agrivar. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Talwyn
Learned Scribe
Australia
222 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jul 2004 : 06:53:36
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I'm with you there Rupert in regards to Foxilon and the FR comics.
His was an interesting character who battled and overcame his nasty addiction to cheeeese (whatever that was?). This gave him some depth and credibility as a character.
It was a shame that the comic only went for 25 episodes.
What happened to the crew of the realms master after the comic finished, anyone know?
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Over the centuries, mankind has tried many ways of combating the forces of evil...prayer, fasting, good works and so on.
Up until Doom, no one seemed to have thought about the double-barrel shotgun.
EAT LEADEN DEATH DEMON!
Terry Pratchett
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36798 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jul 2004 : 07:58:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Talwyn
I'm with you there Rupert in regards to Foxilon and the FR comics.
His was an interesting character who battled and overcame his nasty addiction to cheeeese (whatever that was?). This gave him some depth and credibility as a character.
It was a shame that the comic only went for 25 episodes.
What happened to the crew of the realms master after the comic finished, anyone know?
There was a couple short stories in Dragon Magazine. 260 and 247, I believe.
And I hate to say it, but as much as I liked the FR comic, I think I liked the AD&D comic more. The fact it was set in Waterdeep helped, and I liked the characters better -- especially Kyriani.
Of course, what really draws vacuum is that they ended all the comics just as they were setting up an interesting storyline in the Spelljammer title. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Sarelle
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
508 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jul 2004 : 15:17:52
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Of course, what really draws vacuum is that they ended all the comics just as they were setting up an interesting storyline in the Spelljammer title.
Really? Didn't know that. How unfair. Thanks for the info WR. |
Chair of the The Rightful Return of Monster Deities to FR Society (RRMDFRS)
My character, drawn by Liodain: Sarelle / Sarelle (smaller) |
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Aldrick the Nightblade
Acolyte
37 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jul 2004 : 15:52:31
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quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlack
[quote][i]Haven't they already started doing that
If they have, tell me what book! |
"Turn your face to the shadows, and let the sun fall behind you" |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jul 2004 : 15:56:47
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quote:
Originally posted by Aldrick the Nightblade
If they have, tell me what book!
The Rogue series and The Priest series are both in print. |
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Aldrick the Nightblade
Acolyte
37 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jul 2004 : 16:04:27
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Oh....the rogue series are about theives and that sort...,but I mean assassins!! |
"Turn your face to the shadows, and let the sun fall behind you" |
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Kameron M. Franklin
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
228 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jul 2004 : 19:42:12
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| My short story for Realms of the Dragons 2 features gnomes in non-comic relief roles. Just finished it Saturday night and sent it in to Phil Athans. The anthology will be out May 2005, I believe. |
"You keep saying that word. I do not think it means what you think it means." --Inigo Montoya, The Princess Bride |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jul 2004 : 20:21:16
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quote:
Originally posted by Kameron M. Franklin
My short story for Realms of the Dragons 2 features gnomes in non-comic relief roles. Just finished it Saturday night and sent it in to Phil Athans. The anthology will be out May 2005, I believe.
Yes, but are they going to make it through the whole story? |
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Kameron M. Franklin
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
228 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jul 2004 : 23:16:17
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quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlack
Yes, but are they going to make it through the whole story?
The story is centered around a village of gnomes in the Sword Mountains, so yes, there are gnomes through the entire story. |
"You keep saying that word. I do not think it means what you think it means." --Inigo Montoya, The Princess Bride |
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Crust
Learned Scribe
USA
273 Posts |
Posted - 27 Jul 2004 : 04:06:06
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STAN! wrote a short story in one of the Realms anthologies that features a gnome detective that speaks only in rhyme.
I'm surprised I didn't see Regis or Belwar mentioned.
It seems that halflings and gnomes aren't "world-shapers" like elves, dwarves, humans, and even orcs, are. Halflings are traditionally "homey" and "hobbit-ish." Of course, the 3E halfling tries to squash this stereotype. It fails in my eyes. I can't stand the skinny halfling. The gnome seems to be portrayed as a tinkerer or collector in FR and DL. Neither race seem fit to act as the archetypal hero featured in an FR novel, or anywhere else, so they're secondary characters at best. |
"That's right, hurl back views that force ye to think by name-calling - 'tis the grand old tradition, let it not down! Anything to keep from having to think, or - Mystra forfend - change thy own views!"
Narnra glowered at her father. "Just how am I to learn how to think? By being taught by you?"
"Some folk in the Realms would give their lives for the chance to learn at my feet," Elminster said mildly. "Several already have."
~from Elminster's Daughter, Ed Greenwood |
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Faraer
Great Reader
3308 Posts |
Posted - 27 Jul 2004 : 18:15:48
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Halflings and gnomes just don't appeal to Western culture's disfunctional youth- and glamour-obsession, and the sort of readers who like 'identifying' with beautiful elves. And Realms books have to appeal to as many people as possible.quote:
Originally posted by Sarelle
Gnomes have no history, and the only personality is from Dragonlance
No way. The personalities of World of Greyhawk gnomes and of Forgotten Realms gnomes are perfectly clear -- they just aren't gimmicks ('funny', 'mad professors', etc.).
Good choice Kameron. |
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Crust
Learned Scribe
USA
273 Posts |
Posted - 27 Jul 2004 : 18:52:29
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This taken from page 9 of The Fall of Myth Drannor by Steven E. Schend:
quote:
The gnomes and halflings, while rarely respected greatly by any of the other races of Myth Drannor, proved the greatest of Myth Drannor’s defenders. Cannily and strategically placed illusions and savagely accurate hit-and-run missile sorties from halflings under cover cost the Army of Darkness more patrols and scouts than any other deterrent. After the first year of the Weeping War, the elves and dwarves and humans gained new respect for their shorter allies, who were nonchalant about their accomplishments and the accolades that followed: “All we do is defend our homes…what’s so astounding about that?” The gnomes’ matter-of-fact nature and the halflings’ willingness to share shamed some elves and their condescending outlooks, though not on purpose.
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"That's right, hurl back views that force ye to think by name-calling - 'tis the grand old tradition, let it not down! Anything to keep from having to think, or - Mystra forfend - change thy own views!"
Narnra glowered at her father. "Just how am I to learn how to think? By being taught by you?"
"Some folk in the Realms would give their lives for the chance to learn at my feet," Elminster said mildly. "Several already have."
~from Elminster's Daughter, Ed Greenwood |
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ElaineCunningham
Forgotten Realms Author
2396 Posts |
Posted - 27 Jul 2004 : 18:54:13
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For what it's worth, I've written two short stories (the same event told through very different perspectives) in which gnomes played an important part: "Speaking With the Dead" from the FR anthology Realms of Mystery, and "Stolen Dream," from DRAGON magazine #259. They ghomes depicted therein are most definitely not comic relief, nor do they create mechanical items, raise giant space hamsters, wear red hats, or hang out in front yards next to the pink flamingos.
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ElaineCunningham
Forgotten Realms Author
2396 Posts |
Posted - 27 Jul 2004 : 18:59:57
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quote:
Originally posted by Crust
Of course, the 3E halfling tries to squash this stereotype.
I see it more as a stereotype transferal, moving halflings from Tolkien to Dragonlance. It's only a matter of time before someone gives one of these Kate Moss halflings a topknot and a cheerful, larcenous personality. I'm stockpiling canned goods against this day, as I consider it a harbinger of the Four Horses of the Apocolypse. |
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Why is it
