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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
 Posted - 03 Jul 2004 : 08:44:45
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It appears as though Complete Adventurer will be the next tome to be published in the 'Complete' series. Here's the first reference that was uncovered. It has been suggested that it will be for the Rogue and Bard classes.
The details are located on the page for the new player reward cards for RPGA.
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Edited by - Alaundo on 05 Jan 2005 16:40:57
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Lord Rad
Great Reader
United Kingdom
2080 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jul 2004 : 11:07:53
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Excellent  Now THIS appeals to me more than any of the other "Complete" series. |
Lord Rad
"What? No, I wasn't reading your module. I was just looking at the pictures"
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Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jul 2004 : 11:15:12
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and the monster rears its ugly head....... I bet the Fire Knife Assassin PrC that was cut from PGTF will appear in this generic book  |
“I am the King of Rome, and above grammar”
Emperor Sigismund
"Its good to be the King!"
Mel Brooks |
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Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jul 2004 : 12:27:54
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| I'm afraid I don't see it. There's a plain-text piece that looks like a placeholder, though. Right under the link for the PGtF. |
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Arivia
Great Reader
Canada
2965 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jul 2004 : 12:35:39
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At least it doesn't have a name like Complete Stealth.
And there's already one Realms PrC in there-Fochulcan(although that looks off) Lyrist. |
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zemd
Master of Realmslore
France
1103 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jul 2004 : 15:23:17
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 Again?! An other book with ONLY PrC, feats,...
 I begin to be sick about this. IMO we've got really enough books that gives us a lot options for the characters!
 What makes a good session isn't what feats and Prc you have, well it's part of it ok, but more and more i feel there's something missing in the recents WOTC books. Take tPGtF... they should have give some tips about HOW to play in the FR, instead it's another book that could have been released as a generic wotc book.
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jul 2004 : 15:45:01
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quote:
Originally posted by Bookwyrm
I'm afraid I don't see it. There's a plain-text piece that looks like a placeholder, though. Right under the link for the PGtF.
It is okay. That's what everyone else is seeing. There have been no other 'official' details released about the tome yet, not even a potential cover image.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Faraer
Great Reader
3308 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jul 2004 : 16:10:16
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quote:
IMO we've got really enough books that gives us a lot options for the characters!
In my view it's worse than that, because they're *not* options for characters -- they're options for the rules representation of characters. The options for the characters exist already, and only need fiddly extra rules in as far as 3E tells us they should.
Sadly, this Complete Adventurer probably makes a Realms book on adventuring -- which would have adventurer-lore based on long tradition, rather than made up in a few months to fill pages -- less likely. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jul 2004 : 18:13:23
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quote:
Originally posted by zemd
Again?! An other book with ONLY PrC, feats,...
I begin to be sick about this. IMO we've got really enough books that gives us a lot options for the characters!
What makes a good session isn't what feats and Prc you have, well it's part of it ok, but more and more i feel there's something missing in the recents WOTC books. Take tPGtF... they should have give some tips about HOW to play in the FR, instead it's another book that could have been released as a generic wotc book.
Well, there is one PrC in a future release that I'm interested in... I'm quite certain that the book Complete Arcane will see the return of my beloved Wild Mage class. I'm not saying I'll buy that book, but I am likely to go down to Barnes & Noble one day with a pencil and paper, so I can get the details.
But yeah, I totally agree with you, otherwise.
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Sarelle
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
508 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jul 2004 : 01:08:47
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*Sigh*
I will add my mournful voice to those wondering about the future of D&D with the rise of these generic (or, worse, Realms) Feat'n'PrC books. I actually enjoyed seeing variations of feats and Prestige Classes once, and playing with them. But like a spoilt child, there is no way I can enjoy all of the ones WotC are cramming in. I lost interest in them some time ago. And what's worse - the sheer amount is, as has been said, encouraging D&D gamers to look at feats and PrCs for character flavour rather than actually roleplaying.
But I know I'm just expressing already-dwelled-upon views here, so time to move on. |
Chair of the The Rightful Return of Monster Deities to FR Society (RRMDFRS)
My character, drawn by Liodain: Sarelle / Sarelle (smaller) |
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Chyron
Learned Scribe
Hong Kong
279 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jul 2004 : 03:13:14
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I'm not saying I'll buy that book, but I am likely to go down to Barnes & Noble one day with a pencil and paper, so I can get the details.
 Now that is a guide getting the attention it deserves.
Seriously, I just wonder how long WOTC can continue to submit generic crunch before they start runnning out of material. How long will it be before we are treated to manauls such as Complete Barkeep, Complete Town-Cryer, or Complete Peasant?  |
Just My Thoughts
Chyron :)
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jul 2004 : 03:16:21
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quote:
Originally posted by Chyron
Now that is a guide getting the attention it deserves.
Seriously, I just wonder how long WOTC can continue to submit generic crunch before they start runnning out of material. How long will it be before we are treated to manauls such as Complete Barkeep, Complete Town-Cryer, or Complete Peasant?
Actually im more interested in these three. :) Any thing to help DM's flush out npc's that are not one of the classes in the core books. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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Chyron
Learned Scribe
Hong Kong
279 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jul 2004 : 03:35:21
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Yeah, I understand your senitment Kuje, but think about the PrCs...
The Drink Mixer, The Harrowing Hollerer, and The Manure Master with feats like Intoxicate Patron, Annoying Shout, and Fertilizer Flinging. ...and the crunch rolls on. |
Just My Thoughts
Chyron :)
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AlacLuin
Learned Scribe
131 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jul 2004 : 03:40:59
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I can see it, PrCs for NPC classes.
Based on the aristocrat
The Haughty Noble
Adventuring Rich
Based on the Warrior
Militia Member
Humanoid Tribe Member
Based on the Adept
Witch Doctor
Lay Clergy
Based on the Expert
Service Provider (barkeeps, cooks, inn workers, etc.)
Feasthall Escort
Craftmen
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Edited by - AlacLuin on 04 Jul 2004 03:42:47 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jul 2004 : 03:54:43
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quote:
Originally posted by AlacLuin
I can see it, PrCs for NPC classes.
Based on the aristocrat
The Haughty Noble
Adventuring Rich
Based on the Warrior
Militia Member
Humanoid Tribe Member
Based on the Adept
Witch Doctor
Lay Clergy
Based on the Expert
Service Provider (barkeeps, cooks, inn workers, etc.)
Feasthall Escort
Craftmen
Festhall Escort? I'd read that PrC, just to see all the details! |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jul 2004 : 04:07:09
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Festhall Escort? I'd read that PrC, just to see all the details!
I believe there was a NPC character kit in a 2e PS tome that actually detailed something quite similar. They carried out tasks much like the common tout, only they were directly tied to the Society of Sensation.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jul 2004 : 04:41:28
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Festhall Escort? I'd read that PrC, just to see all the details!
DITTO! Especially since the incubus PC I DM for is thinking of starting a festhall/escort service. :)
Shrug again that type of book is one I would snatch up and not complain to much about the prestige classes. :) |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jul 2004 : 04:56:52
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quote:
Originally posted by AlacLuin
Based on the aristocrat
The Haughty Noble
Adventuring Rich
Well, even though it isn't WOTC, Green Ronin published a whole book earlier this year devoted to the Noble.
quote:
Based on the Expert
Feasthall Escort
And Penumbra's Dynasties & Demagogues featured the PrC, Discreet Companion. Then, there's Sacred Prostitute from the OGL book that was going to ruin the D20 license and bring about the downfall of civilization judging by the reaction it got.
Thus, D20 companies have flooded the market with a plethora of PrCs. That's why, early on, I thought WOTC's products would feature something different, more substance rather than simply their take on something that's already been done several times over. |
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Arivia
Great Reader
Canada
2965 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jul 2004 : 05:03:20
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quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlackThen, there's Sacred Prostitute from the OGL book that was going to ruin the D20 license and bring about the downfall of civilization judging by the reaction it got.
Should I be curious, and ask, or should I keep my brain whole...I don't know....
I don't think there was incentive for WotC to do something "more"-I'll elaborate more when I'm not playing D&D in another window. |
Edited by - Arivia on 04 Jul 2004 05:04:19 |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jul 2004 : 05:06:54
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quote:
Originally posted by Arivia
Should I be curious, and ask, or should I keep my brain whole...I don't know....
Valar's Book of Erotic Fantasy is the book Sirius is talking about here. Very good book in my opinion, and yes I bought a copy as soon as it was possible to do so, since my games do involve love, romance, etc. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jul 2004 : 05:12:33
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quote:
Originally posted by kuje31
Valar's Book of Erotic Fantasy is the book Sirius is talking about here.
Sigh and here I was trying to be all mysterious so that name wouldn't be mentioned in fear of the reaction. Yes, that's the book and it's on my shelf.
quote:
Very good book in my opinion, and yes I bought a copy as soon as it was possible to do so, since my games do involve love, romance, etc.
Yes, a good book that did not deserve the many outlandish comments it received from those that hadn't ever viewed it.
To some extent, all my games since I gamed in Saudi Arabia involved adult subject matter (love, romance, and sex) to some degree. My two players these days are both females and have no problem dealing with adult subject matter. Thus, I was very curious to see how a publisher would deal with the subject matter. Overall, I think they did a solid job. |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jul 2004 : 05:15:02
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quote:
Originally posted by Arivia
Should I be curious, and ask, or should I keep my brain whole...I don't know....
You're too young for this...go away. Seriously, you know you can always ask me anything. Heck, you know how to reach me now, so I know to be quick with a reply if you have a question.
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I don't think there was incentive for WotC to do something "more"-I'll elaborate more when I'm not playing D&D in another window.
I see we don't have your full attention here. I'm crushed. Is this D&D set in FR or that other world that I henceforth refuse to name.  |
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Arivia
Great Reader
Canada
2965 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jul 2004 : 05:20:24
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quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlack
I see we don't have your full attention here. I'm crushed. Is this D&D set in FR or that other world that I henceforth refuse to name.
I'm sorry-I have players, they demand games. Neither, actually-homebrewed setting. Some elements stolen from the Realms, a few from Eberron now, and mixed around in my head for awhile. Why? Does someone need another game? I might be willing to run another-might even be in the FR. |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jul 2004 : 05:25:14
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quote:
Originally posted by Arivia
I'm sorry-I have players, they demand games.
That's what TPKs are for. Let's see them demand anything after that.
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Neither, actually-homebrewed setting. Some elements stolen from the Realms, a few from Eberron now, and mixed around in my head for awhile.
I'm sorry, a few from what? Didn't catch that last world.
Since your world is homebrew, would you say that you get more use from the generic WOTC books like Complete Adventure most likely will be than you would if you ran a campaign set in FR? |
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Arivia
Great Reader
Canada
2965 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jul 2004 : 05:37:43
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quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlack
That's what TPKs are for. Let's see them demand anything after that.
I have a really, really hard time taking the kid gloves off. And if I do, TPKs usually result. So the kid gloves generally stay on.
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I'm sorry, a few from what? Didn't catch that last world.
EBERRON!
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Since your world is homebrew, would you say that you get more use from the generic WOTC books like Complete Adventure most likely will be than you would if you ran a campaign set in FR?
Somewhat. For this world, I built one part based off of the XPH, and went after the rest of it with my normal world-building gusto. I don't conform my homebrewed settings to WotC's work generally. This one, works with some of the elements presented therein, but does not work with all. The one I will be presenting online(Aslari, where Arivia comes from) is quite a bit more incompatible with WotC core elements(which is why I have so much writing to do.) Offhand, if you're looking at visiting-WARNING: Vague Advertising-it can be found at www.freewebs.com/aslari-and yes, there isn't much there right now-with a bit more in the attached forums. And if you wish to quiz me on non-FR stuff, that would be a good place to do it...Got waay offtopic there. Anyway, I'd say it depends upon the setting-I can still find use for them in FR, so...
EDIT: Four combat rounds went by while I was typing this post. |
Edited by - Arivia on 04 Jul 2004 05:41:38 |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jul 2004 : 05:54:23
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quote:
Originally posted by Arivia
I have a really, really hard time taking the kid gloves off. And if I do, TPKs usually result. So the kid gloves generally stay on.
I still am amazed at DMs that brag about how often they have done TPK.
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EBERRON!
Evergone?
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Anyway, I'd say it depends upon the setting-I can still find use for them in FR, so...
I definitely feel that most FR campaigns could find something within a generic WOTC book for use. My problem is how much versus the cost of buying the whole tome. Additionally, another factor for me is the general lack of enthusiasm I have when I hear something like Complete Adventure or any other generic WOTC book like Races of Stone for example announced. The first thing I think of is the fact that I could probably count off numerous D20 companies that have tackled the subject matter already. What will WOTC bring to the table that is so different or vastly superior that I will put forth a good chunk of money, at least for me, to buy this new tome?
I know one thing...for the most part..the vastly superior hasn't been the artwork. |
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Vexxan
Acolyte
USA
18 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jul 2004 : 09:07:16
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quote:
Originally posted by Chyron
Seriously, I just wonder how long WOTC can continue to submit generic crunch before they start runnning out of material.
Are we talking about the same WotC who is still churning out new Magic expansions?
WotC will inundate every aspect of the current rules structure until it threatens to collapse under its own weight. At that time, WotC will 'revise' the rules again with a new edition, followed by constant 'updates' of older crunch.
The cycle will never end.
WotC is a company, not your friend. They aren't going to listen to you unless your name tag clearly delineates the demographic you represent, your annual income and your penchant for impulse buying.
Keeping more topic-oriented...
Complete Adventurer sounds a bit odd to me. Did they intentionally label this product to give the false impression that it is applicable to all 'adventurers'? Will this lure uninformed gamers into buying yet another product they probably don't need?
*does his worst Richard Dawson impression* SURVEY SAYS....
(that was a bad joke, mainly due to the fact that surveys involve feedback from third parties)
MARKETING DEPARTMENT SAYS...
(much better) |
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Arivia
Great Reader
Canada
2965 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jul 2004 : 10:04:52
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quote:
Originally posted by Vexxan
Are we talking about the same WotC who is still churning out new Magic expansions?
This was not a good example to use. By the nature of the game, Wizards must create new content for it, or it would become stale. Not just on the business side of things, but the game would be much less fun if WotC stopped printing sets. The same does not hold true for D&D, as it is much easier to create homebrew content for it. The closest thing Magic has to D&D's editions would be the T2/Block Constructed crowd, who do rebuy everything every two years. |
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Sarta
Senior Scribe
USA
505 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jul 2004 : 11:07:23
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quote:
Originally posted by Arivia
This was not a good example to use. By the nature of the game, Wizards must create new content for it, or it would become stale. Not just on the business side of things, but the game would be much less fun if WotC stopped printing sets.
Definitely true. As each set is released and impacts official game play, new decks are designed to capitalize on the cards currently allowed. After a few months, people have fine-tuned things so well that nearly all of the really effective deck designs under the current rules are well-known, pasted all over the internet, and used by everybody and their brother. At this point things get old very quickly and everyone is ready for a new expansion.
With regard to my feelings on the books and such, I'm all for the Complete X line of books. Frankly, I'd like to see all official prc's and feats be released in one of these series of books with more information on how they can be utilized in the various worlds WotC supports and in home-brew games. Ideally, this would mean that source books for the various worlds could be released without prc's, feats, and such to take pages away from the good stuff.
Sarta |
Edited by - Sarta on 06 Jul 2004 11:08:37 |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jul 2004 : 13:10:05
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quote:
Originally posted by Arivia
quote:
Originally posted by Vexxan
Are we talking about the same WotC who is still churning out new Magic expansions?
This was not a good example to use. By the nature of the game, Wizards must create new content for it, or it would become stale. Not just on the business side of things, but the game would be much less fun if WotC stopped printing sets.
That is essentially, what I was going to say. But it looks like Arivia has beaten me to the post.
The internal mechanical nature of the Magic system necessitates constant change and evolution, as well as adaptation. With each new expansion, new abilities and new features are introduced. It's then required for WotC to develop the basic editions which include several of these new additions so that newer players are never left behind...
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
Edited by - The Sage on 06 Jul 2004 13:11:47 |
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Arivia
Great Reader
Canada
2965 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jul 2004 : 14:35:59
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Arivia
quote:
Originally posted by Vexxan
Are we talking about the same WotC who is still churning out new Magic expansions?
This was not a good example to use. By the nature of the game, Wizards must create new content for it, or it would become stale. Not just on the business side of things, but the game would be much less fun if WotC stopped printing sets.
That is essentially, what I was going to say. But it looks like Arivia has beaten me to the post.
The internal mechanical nature of the Magic system necessitates constant change and evolution, as well as adaptation. With each new expansion, new abilities and new features are introduced. It's then required for WotC to develop the basic editions which include several of these new additions so that newer players are never left behind...
You're off, Sage.
Remember, the editions are only for reprints of staples and introducing new players-nearly anything with the smell of block/set mechanic doesn't make it in. The new players then have to make the hard transition to "Expert" level sets...but let's not get diverted into a discussion of how Magic's core sets could be improved across the board... |
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'Complete Adventurer...'
