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Lord Rad
Great Reader
United Kingdom
2080 Posts |
 Posted - 02 Jul 2004 : 12:09:12
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Sorry if this question is answered in the FRCS or somewhere but I dont have my FR resources to hand at the moment....
Can magic items function at all in Dead Magic zones?
I would say certainly for items such as wands. Wands store magical energy so thus do not need to draw magic from the Weave - which wouldnt be possible in a Dead Magic zone. Once the number of charges of the wand has been met then the wand is depleted of the stored energy - that gives the impression that the presence of the Weave is not required. Am I correct?
Also for Wild Magic zones, the function of the wand is pre-determined so can the effect be distorted and altered in a Wild Magic zone, being that the Weave is not being called upon. The magic stored in the wand should be untainted as it was created with undamaged Weave. 
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Lord Rad
"What? No, I wasn't reading your module. I was just looking at the pictures"
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Edited by - Lord Rad on 02 Jul 2004 12:10:57
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Arivia
Great Reader
Canada
2965 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jul 2004 : 12:32:52
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The FRCS says:
quote:
A dead magic zone acts in most respects like an antimagic field...blah blah, more non-relevant stuff...nor does it interfere with the operation of Shadow Weave magic items.
Magic of Faerun says:
quote:
Magic simply does not work there. Magic items within its bounds do not function, no item can be detected by magic...
The writeup for antimagic field in the 3.5 PHB says:
quote:
Likewise, it prevents the functioning of any magic items or spells within its confines...
So, no and no.
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Capn Charlie
Senior Scribe
USA
418 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jul 2004 : 12:33:07
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While wands may store an amount of magical energy, they must still draw upon the weave to manifest it as a spell. Picture the world of Toril much like Earth: magic does not function there. It is beyond the natural laws. However, the weave encompassing it alters certain aspects of these natural laws, allowing magic to function. In a dead magic zone the weave is not allowing magic to function, thus you have a very pretty, but nonfunctional, stick.
So in short, nothing supernatural works in a dead magic zone.
Now in a wild magic zone the same rules apply, almost, the altered laws of reality that allow magic to function are in a state of flux, thus they may be in any of a number of states, causing all manner of magical chaos as unpredictable effects occur. |
Shadows of War: Tales of a Mercenary
My first stab at realms fiction, here at candlekeep. Stop on by and tell me what you think. |
Edited by - Capn Charlie on 02 Jul 2004 13:16:28 |
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Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jul 2004 : 12:45:50
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Nice explanation. Once again, you said the same thing I was trying to say, but far more concisely. 
Just as an indirect piece of evidence: even supernatural abilities don't work in an antimagic zone. Those come from the person/creature's own personal store of energy.
This makes me wonder just what qualifies as "energy" in this case. Since fire still works, I have to say it's non-physical energy. Yet it works on people with supernatural abilites. So I suppose it's a sort of mind-energy. It's not life, per se, since it doesn't do anything to normal people, just magic and supernatural energy.
That doesn't have much to do with this discussion, except it was what made me start thinking about it.  |
Hell hath no fury like all of Candlekeep rising in defense of one of its own.
Download the brickfilm masterpiece by Leftfield Studios! See this page for more. |
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Lord Rad
Great Reader
United Kingdom
2080 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jul 2004 : 14:09:59
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| Thanks everyone. I figured that that would be the case, although I don't entirely agree with the decision on it |
Lord Rad
"What? No, I wasn't reading your module. I was just looking at the pictures"
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
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Lord Rad
Great Reader
United Kingdom
2080 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jul 2004 : 11:02:02
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Basically, I believe that the Weave should not be called upon by a wand and that the energy is stored within - thus not being affected by the Dead Magic area.
I do however see the arguments against, dont get me wrong |
Lord Rad
"What? No, I wasn't reading your module. I was just looking at the pictures"
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Sarta
Senior Scribe
USA
505 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jul 2004 : 11:36:02
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Item creation rules largely support this argument. Magical items are invested with magic at item creation at which time the weave or shadow-weave are drawn upon to charge said item. Afterwards, even rogues can activate them once they figure out how to fiddle with them just right. Item creation rules imply that magic from the weave (or shadow-weave) is shaped and stored in the item for each charge, ready to be used by any skilled user.
However, with them not functioning in dead magic zones this seems to change the way magical items work. With this interpretation it seems to mean that charges aren't really stored magic, but instead pre-paid access to the weave (or shadow-weave) which can be tapped when the item is used by a skilled user.
Sarta |
Edited by - Sarta on 03 Jul 2004 11:37:42 |
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Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jul 2004 : 11:52:17
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Pre-paid. I like that.  |
Hell hath no fury like all of Candlekeep rising in defense of one of its own.
Download the brickfilm masterpiece by Leftfield Studios! See this page for more. |
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Capn Charlie
Senior Scribe
USA
418 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jul 2004 : 12:14:42
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| Concerns like this is why I prefer viewing magic items like wands as storing the energy, but the only way to acces this energy is within the field generated by the weave. |
Shadows of War: Tales of a Mercenary
My first stab at realms fiction, here at candlekeep. Stop on by and tell me what you think. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jul 2004 : 17:48:08
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quote:
Originally posted by Sarta
Item creation rules largely support this argument. Magical items are invested with magic at item creation at which time the weave or shadow-weave are drawn upon to charge said item. Afterwards, even rogues can activate them once they figure out how to fiddle with them just right. Item creation rules imply that magic from the weave (or shadow-weave) is shaped and stored in the item for each charge, ready to be used by any skilled user.
However, with them not functioning in dead magic zones this seems to change the way magical items work. With this interpretation it seems to mean that charges aren't really stored magic, but instead pre-paid access to the weave (or shadow-weave) which can be tapped when the item is used by a skilled user.
Sarta
Look at it this way: sure, the energy is stored within the wand. So long as it's in there, the dead magic area doesn't affect it. But as soon as it leaves the wand, it's in an area where magic simply does not exist. Thus, nothing happens.
So it's not that it can't be used because it's drawing on the Weave, it can't be used because the magic would be nullified by the dead magic zone. |
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Lord Rad
Great Reader
United Kingdom
2080 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jul 2004 : 10:36:17
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A mighty fine explanation there Wooly Thats my loophole sealed up 
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Lord Rad
"What? No, I wasn't reading your module. I was just looking at the pictures"
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Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jul 2004 : 13:14:25
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| I like the idea of pre-paid access better, but that works too. |
Hell hath no fury like all of Candlekeep rising in defense of one of its own.
Download the brickfilm masterpiece by Leftfield Studios! See this page for more. |
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Lord Rad
Great Reader
United Kingdom
2080 Posts |
Posted - 08 Jul 2004 : 18:48:13
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| Hmmmmmmm. Im currently reading Shadows of Doom (Shadow of the Avatar Trilogy, book 1), which features WILD magic areas (I believe theyre wild magic due to the abnormal effects resulting from spells being cast by mages - for instance, a fireball spell becomes a shower of pink flowers and such). However, when a wand of lightning is used, lightning comes forth - unaffected. This brings back my argument that the weave was already stored within the wand before going awry and is thus not affected. |
Lord Rad
"What? No, I wasn't reading your module. I was just looking at the pictures"
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Beowulf
Learned Scribe
Canada
322 Posts |
Posted - 08 Jul 2004 : 19:07:14
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Look at it this way: sure, the energy is stored within the wand. So long as it's in there, the dead magic area doesn't affect it. But as soon as it leaves the wand, it's in an area where magic simply does not exist. Thus, nothing happens.
So it's not that it can't be used because it's drawing on the Weave, it can't be used because the magic would be nullified by the dead magic zone.
[/quote]
Yeah. I tend to think of magic as being interwoven strands of energy (thus, the Weave). In a Wild Magic area these strands loosen ... some disolve, others come into being at random. In a Dead Magic area, the strands unravelled and simply will not bind.
However, as good as that might sound, I seem to recall reading ... in a Myth Drannor module I think ... that a duration spell for instance is only nullified for so long as it exists in the area. Once it moves out of the area it continues to function, provided that the duration has not yet expired.
I suppose one could look upon it as a vacume and the working of magic as breathing. You can breath before you enter the vacume, and provided you are still alive, you can go on breathing once you leave the vacume, but you can't breath within it. The "quality" that supports breathing, or the *functioning* magic as the case may be, is simply absent.
Hey, what would happen to a relic or a god if they stood in a dead or wild magic area? If Mystra stood in one? If Ao stood in one? Such answers would probably reveal more about the nature of the field/s? |
"Ill tempered the wretch, who laughs at everyone. He cannot recognize, as he should, that he is not without faults." the High One, Poetic Edda |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 08 Jul 2004 : 19:26:13
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quote:
Originally posted by Lord Rad
Hmmmmmmm. Im currently reading Shadows of Doom (Shadow of the Avatar Trilogy, book 1), which features WILD magic areas (I believe theyre wild magic due to the abnormal effects resulting from spells being cast by mages - for instance, a fireball spell becomes a shower of pink flowers and such). However, when a wand of lightning is used, lightning comes forth - unaffected. This brings back my argument that the weave was already stored within the wand before going awry and is thus not affected.
So that means that one spell was unaffected, that one time. |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Sourcemaster2
Senior Scribe
USA
361 Posts |
Posted - 08 Jul 2004 : 20:51:37
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| I don't think deity-level magic is affected by dead magic or wild magic, but I could be wrong. |
But what have all the passing years/Done, but breed new angers, fears?/Show me now an equal worth/To innocence I earned at birth. |
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Lord Rad
Great Reader
United Kingdom
2080 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jul 2004 : 09:52:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Lord Rad
Hmmmmmmm. Im currently reading Shadows of Doom (Shadow of the Avatar Trilogy, book 1), which features WILD magic areas (I believe theyre wild magic due to the abnormal effects resulting from spells being cast by mages - for instance, a fireball spell becomes a shower of pink flowers and such). However, when a wand of lightning is used, lightning comes forth - unaffected. This brings back my argument that the weave was already stored within the wand before going awry and is thus not affected.
So that means that one spell was unaffected, that one time.
No, this wand is used quite frequently and never fails once. Other mages are casting spells which go awry every time. |
Lord Rad
"What? No, I wasn't reading your module. I was just looking at the pictures"
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jul 2004 : 15:34:41
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quote:
Originally posted by Lord Rad
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Lord Rad
Hmmmmmmm. Im currently reading Shadows of Doom (Shadow of the Avatar Trilogy, book 1), which features WILD magic areas (I believe theyre wild magic due to the abnormal effects resulting from spells being cast by mages - for instance, a fireball spell becomes a shower of pink flowers and such). However, when a wand of lightning is used, lightning comes forth - unaffected. This brings back my argument that the weave was already stored within the wand before going awry and is thus not affected.
So that means that one spell was unaffected, that one time.
No, this wand is used quite frequently and never fails once. Other mages are casting spells which go awry every time.
Hmmm... Well, it's been a while since I read that trilogy, so I can't recall that happenstance.
Either there was some other factor involved, or whoever had the wand was just exceedingly lucky. According to the rules, spells cast from an item are slightly less likely to go awry in a wild magic area, though it can still happen.
Who was using this wand? If it was El, and it was while he was carrying some of Mystra's essence, then the wand was likely affected by her and thus remained stable. |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jul 2004 : 15:43:31
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And here's another analogy, which will perhaps explain it all better. Equate magical items to cell phones.
Cell phones are self-powered, and they send out signals -- without these signals being sent out, the phone is useless. Similarly, magical items contain magic and it must be expelled from the item in some way to be useful.
If you have your cell phone and you're in one of those areas where there is absolutely no coverage at all, it doesn't matter how charged your phone is or how many calls you try to place. It's not going to work. This is the same as magical items in a dead magic area.
If you're in an area with coverage that is erratic, then you may or may not be able to place and receive calls. One call may go thru perfectly, but the next call may be hideously garbled and constantly dropping in and out. This is like magical items in wild magic areas.
Does this explain it better? |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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green knight
Seeker
USA
50 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jul 2004 : 02:00:40
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That was a realy great analogy Wooly Rupert.
Green Knight |
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chosenofvelsharoon
Acolyte
USA
27 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jul 2004 : 23:54:38
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i think the cell phone analogy is perfect, in addition a wild magic zone could be thought of as a limited coverage, where say at&t would work, and sprint would not.
i was going to say it's kind of like sound, a spell caster uses his/her voice, a wand is like a boombox, a dead magic zone is like a vacum, no sound can move through it. sound vibrates matter and magic vibrates the weave, no medium = no sound, no weave = no magic.
a wild magic zone has some residual background noise, echo's, someelse's dropped boombox, ect. these noises maybe low pictched and droning, blocking the bass, but allowing the treble. (letting it be a ball that explodes, but flowers not fire) or maybe interupts 4/4 time instead of 3/4 time (anyone a muscian that knows what i'm talking about?). so a lightning bolt (lets say a high pitched rapid spell) goes through, while a fireball (lowerpitched normal tempo spell) is interrupted.
~chosen of velsharoon |
~chosen of Velsharoon
"and naught shall be left, saved shattered throwns with none to rule them but the dead." |
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Magic items in Dead Magic zones
