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Gellion
Learned Scribe
140 Posts |
 Posted - 22 Jun 2004 : 05:59:07
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Well, I cant quite explain it, but my interest in the realms is almost gone. The entire world just seems so bland and dull now. I have probably been a realms fan for nearly two years bow, although I may not be one soon. I do not know why but I grow tired of the whole thing the world, the races, the gods. THey all just bore me to death. Anyone else go through a time like this?
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"Paladine, you see the evil that surrounds me! You have been witness to the calamities that have been the scourge of Krynn... You must see now that this doctrine of balance will not work! I can sweep evil from this land. Destroy the ogre races. Bring the wayward humans into line! Find new homelands far away for the dwarves and the kender and the gnomes, those races not of your creation... I demand that you give me, too, the power to drive away the shadows of evil that darken the land!"- THE REIGN OF ISTAR, Tales IV |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jun 2004 : 06:10:03
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quote:
Originally posted by Gellion
Anyone else go through a time like this?
Nope. What other fantasy world is generating more interest from you? |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jun 2004 : 06:14:22
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| 3/3.5 has done this for me. I don't know, but it feels like there is some thing missing from the 3/3.5 FR books. Luckily I have my old material to fall back on and the wonder and lore found in those old tomes keeps me from being extremely disappointed..... |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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Gellion
Learned Scribe
140 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jun 2004 : 06:19:27
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quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlack
quote:
Originally posted by Gellion
Anyone else go through a time like this?
Nope. What other fantasy world is generating more interest from you?
Mainly Dragonlance, my brother brought home the first book one day and ever since I have loved the world. It just seems so much more frsh, and not stagnant like the realms. This is not to say i hate the realms, I run a game in them. Although it is not exactly my favorite thing to do.
Another thing that has been drawing my attention once again are video games. For about a year I was out of the loop of them, and now looking back realize all the games I missed. I guess I am trying to make up for lost time.
So, it is a variety of things. Somethings about the realms just bother me too.
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"Paladine, you see the evil that surrounds me! You have been witness to the calamities that have been the scourge of Krynn... You must see now that this doctrine of balance will not work! I can sweep evil from this land. Destroy the ogre races. Bring the wayward humans into line! Find new homelands far away for the dwarves and the kender and the gnomes, those races not of your creation... I demand that you give me, too, the power to drive away the shadows of evil that darken the land!"- THE REIGN OF ISTAR, Tales IV |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jun 2004 : 06:23:42
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quote:
Originally posted by Gellion
So, it is a variety of things. Somethings about the realms just bother me too.
That can happen. Nothing wrong with taking a break from the Realms. More than likely, if you return, it will still be here. |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jun 2004 : 06:25:35
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quote:
Originally posted by kuje31
3/3.5 has done this for me. I don't know, but it feels like there is some thing missing from the 3/3.5 FR books. Luckily I have my old material to fall back on and the wonder and lore found in those old tomes keeps me from being extremely disappointed.....
I can understand being disappointed in the 3/3.5 situation and the gaming products when compared to previous tomes. However, I do think at this moment, FR novels feature quality writing from a larger number of authors than I can ever recall in the past. |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jun 2004 : 06:42:09
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quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlack
I can understand being disappointed in the 3/3.5 situation and the gaming products when compared to previous tomes. However, I do think at this moment, FR novels feature quality writing from a larger number of authors than I can ever recall in the past.
I didn't mean the novels, hell's the novels are what got me addicted to FR all those years ago and I kind of have to disagree with the current quality writing part because most of the FR novels have always done so, in my humble opinion. But I mean the sourcebooks.... They are just missing some thing that the older 1e and 2e ones had..... What that is I don't know....
For example, I can sit down and read my 1e and 2e material from cover to cover, but 3/3.5e material, even if it is FR lore, puts me to sleep. :) Except for maybe one or two of the 3/3.5e FR sourcebooks. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
Edited by - Kuje on 22 Jun 2004 06:44:19 |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jun 2004 : 06:50:23
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quote:
Originally posted by kuje31
But I mean the sourcebooks.... They are just missing some thing that the older 1e and 2e ones had..... What that is I don't know....
They are becoming more generic. To me, this edition's sourcebooks feel more like something a person can put into a home brewed world and less something that is from the FR.
quote:
For example, I can sit down and read my 1e and 2e material from cover to cover, but 3/3.5e material, even if it is FR lore, puts me to sleep. :) Except for maybe one or two of the 3/3.5e FR sourcebooks.
You're not alone. There are a few 3/3.5e FR sourebooks that were better than Tylenol PM for me. |
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Arivia
Great Reader
Canada
2965 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jun 2004 : 07:25:55
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Unfortunately, I'm beginning to feel the same myself.
I'm not sure what it is, but I'm starting to feel slightly disconnected from the Realms...
I don't know-perhaps it's the fact that I haven't played a session in the Realms for quite awhile-or that I'm doing so much work on my own homebrewed worlds...
I don't think I'll stop with the Realms, I might just not spend as much attention to it... |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jun 2004 : 07:33:45
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quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlack
They are becoming more generic. To me, this edition's sourcebooks feel more like something a person can put into a home brewed world and less something that is from the FR.
You're not alone. There are a few 3/3.5e FR sourebooks that were better than Tylenol PM for me.
That could be it, since you are right, it seems 3/3.5's FR sourcebooks, except for one or two, seem to be targeted for people who want to burrow ideas to use in thier games instead of giving us realms lore.... I don't think, no I'll change that to, I know that there is not one single FR sourcebook for 3/3.5 that I've actually managed to read from cover to cover, while as I said, I can sit down with my older FR sourcebooks and read them cover to cover without passing out from boredom or getting put to sleep. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
Edited by - Kuje on 22 Jun 2004 07:36:03 |
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Green Giant
Seeker
USA
63 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jun 2004 : 07:40:35
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I'm also starting to feel some drag but that's probably from all the NPCs I've posted at the WotC website. That's why I've started to post NPCs from other regions instead of just Faerun's. Hopefully this will stop me from burning out.
As for 3/3.5 FR sourcebooks, I've read them from cover to cover but Silver Marches, Unapproachable East and Underdark came close to putting me to sleep since it was nothing new and just a rehash of older 2e material. I'm actually looking forward to Serpent Kingdoms and the Shining South. I hope there will be new material to read and enjoy. |
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Arivia
Great Reader
Canada
2965 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jun 2004 : 07:42:57
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quote:
Originally posted by Green Giant
I'm also starting to feel some drag but that's probably from all the NPCs I've posted at the WotC website. That's why I've started to post NPCs from other regions instead of just Faerun's. Hopefully this will stop me from burning out.
As for 3/3.5 FR sourcebooks, I've read them from cover to cover but Silver Marches, Unapproachable East and Underdark came close to putting me to sleep since it was nothing new and just a rehash of older 2e material. I'm actually looking forward to Serpent Kingdoms and the Shining South. I hope there will be new material to read and enjoy.
Silver Marches and Underdark were rehashes? Wha..what?  |
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Green Giant
Seeker
USA
63 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jun 2004 : 07:55:12
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| Much of the info I could find in The North boxed set and Drizzt's Guide to the Underdark. Of course there were new twists and the rules were great for both places, cold weather and underground, but I didn't get any feeling of wonder or that I was reading fresh material. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36875 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jun 2004 : 07:56:51
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quote:
Originally posted by Gellion
quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlack
quote:
Originally posted by Gellion
Anyone else go through a time like this?
Nope. What other fantasy world is generating more interest from you?
Mainly Dragonlance, my brother brought home the first book one day and ever since I have loved the world. It just seems so much more frsh, and not stagnant like the realms. This is not to say i hate the realms, I run a game in them. Although it is not exactly my favorite thing to do.
For me, it was exactly the other way around. I got hooked into TSR by reading the Chronicles and Legends trilogies. For a long time, I loved Krynn, couldn't get enough.
But then I started getting bored with the lack of anything happening. They had a couple major events in the present time, and then started popping out book after book of Character X's past, or novels about historical events... And my boredom grew. They weren't moving forward, or even sideways. They were moving backwards, and I wasn't interested in that.
Add to that the fact that I noticed some authors didn't pay any attention at all to the other authors... Like the short story, pre-Chronicles, where Raistlin tosses off like 4 polymorph spells without blinking.
So to me, Dragonlance was the stagnant setting. I wandered into the Realms just in time to catch the Avatar Crisis and the Tuigan Invasion, and I've not at all had a problem with the action within the Realms.
However, I do share the opinion of others about the 3.x sourcebooks.
quote:
Originally posted by Green Giant
I'm also starting to feel some drag but that's probably from all the NPCs I've posted at the WotC website. That's why I've started to post NPCs from other regions instead of just Faerun's. Hopefully this will stop me from burning out.
I thought that was you! Welcome to Candlekeep!  |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Green Giant
Seeker
USA
63 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jun 2004 : 08:12:22
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Thanks for the welcome. I've actually been registered here for quite a while but I forgot all about it until I remembered others at the WotC forums talking about novel discussions here and that jogged my memory that I had been registered at Candlekeep's for quite some time. Maybe I'll ask some of the authors if they been following my Realms NPC Characters thread and what they think about some of the conversions I have done of their characters. 
I still like the Realms and believe it is one of the best places to adventure in. Hopefully Serpent Kingdoms and the Shining South will bring new materials and cultures to the Realms and get me excited about adventuring in the Realms once again. |
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Arivia
Great Reader
Canada
2965 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jun 2004 : 08:16:14
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quote:
Originally posted by Green Giant
Much of the info I could find in The North boxed set and Drizzt's Guide to the Underdark. Of course there were new twists and the rules were great for both places, cold weather and underground, but I didn't get any feeling of wonder or that I was reading fresh material.
I'd actually disagree-both Silver Marches and Underdark dealt with areas that really hadn't seen development before, or new aspects of previously detailed areas. This is especially apparent in Underdark's outline of lots of areas concept(quite a few of which had not seen depiction before) as compared to the details on a few cities from DGttU. |
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Sarelle
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
508 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jun 2004 : 09:24:30
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I personally thought that Silver Marches, Unnapproachable East and Underdark did a pretty good job of balancing the whole obsession with crunch and a nice lot of lore, even if some of it originally came from 2e products. I certainly enjoyed them more than the PtGF, which, I agree with everyone here, was far too generic, making the Realms feel like 'just another campaign setting' rather than 'FORGOTTEN REALMS!'.
Those who are feeling bored with the setting: don't feel guilty about getting bored with the setting - whenever I give up an interest I always keep trying to hang on in there in the hope that my interest will be rekindled - but don't give up on FR. Come back ready for a fresh round of Realms.
EDIT: Green Giant - welcome (back) to Candlekeep. As you know, I followed your thread and am very thankful for your Maerdrym conversions. |
Chair of the The Rightful Return of Monster Deities to FR Society (RRMDFRS)
My character, drawn by Liodain: Sarelle / Sarelle (smaller) |
Edited by - Sarelle on 22 Jun 2004 09:26:02 |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6680 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jun 2004 : 10:16:46
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Everyone's enthusiasm for a hobby/interest has to wax and wane - it's the nature of the beast. I went through a stage late last year where I didn't pick up an FR book for 2 or so months - concentrating instead on other interests. It happens, but I don't think it has been helped by the lack of published 3E Realms products. Realistically, there wasn't much in the Players Guide to Faerun to get an FR fan excited, and Underdark was, with respect, a poor man's version of DDGttU. I'm hoping that Serpent Kingdoms and Shining South will bring back some "Wow!" factor to the Realms.
-- George Krashos
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"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Mystery_Man
Senior Scribe
USA
455 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jun 2004 : 13:36:13
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I read the 3rd edition FRCS from cover to cover. 3E brought me back into the game and the FRCS actually got me movtivated to play again.
But as far as reading one of these books from cover to cover goes, the FRCS was the exception to the rule. Normally, and this goes for 1st and 2nd ed. as well. I just pick the area I'm interested and read up on it. When you actually target a specific area and look it up, the new books are quite engaging and generate lots of campaign ideas. |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jun 2004 : 13:41:27
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quote:
Originally posted by kuje31
That could be it, since you are right, it seems 3/3.5's FR sourcebooks, except for one or two, seem to be targeted for people who want to burrow ideas to use in thier games instead of giving us realms lore....
That's the simple fact. You were part of Richard Baker's thread on the old WOTC board where he said:
quote:
we've got good reason to believe (customer feedback, reports from the RPGA, etc.) that a large number of folks who buy FR books don't play FR campaigns. They're buying them to loot the FR books for artifacts (feats, spells, classes, etc.) usable in a straight D&D game. I think that's a darned shame, and they don't know what they're missing, but that's how it is.
Thus, I can't blame WOTC for designing products if that's what's going to result in more books sold. |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jun 2004 : 13:42:29
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quote:
Originally posted by Green Giant
I'm actually looking forward to Serpent Kingdoms and the Shining South. I hope there will be new material to read and enjoy.
From your lips to the Gods' ears. |
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Thelonius
Senior Scribe
Spain
730 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jun 2004 : 16:34:40
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quote:
Originally posted by Gellion
Well, I cant quite explain it, but my interest in the realms is almost gone. The entire world just seems so bland and dull now. I have probably been a realms fan for nearly two years bow, although I may not be one soon. I do not know why but I grow tired of the whole thing the world, the races, the gods. THey all just bore me to death. Anyone else go through a time like this?
Gellion this sort of things happen, no problem about that, you'll see how after being out of the realms for a while, your interest in them will grow again. Dragonlance is a real good choice, i can sure you. |
"If you are to truly understand, then you will need the contrast, not adherence to a single ideal." - Kreia
"I THINK I JUST HAD ANOTHER NEAR-RINCEWIND EXPERIENCE"- Discworld's Death frustrated after Rincewind scapes his grasp... again.
"I am death, come for thee" - Nimbul, from Baldur's Gate I just before being badly spanked
Sapientia sola libertas est |
Edited by - Thelonius on 22 Jun 2004 16:35:28 |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jun 2004 : 17:39:08
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quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlack
That's the simple fact. You were part of Richard Baker's thread on the old WOTC board where he said:
Thus, I can't blame WOTC for designing products if that's what's going to result in more books sold.
Yup I remember that as well. That might have some thing to do with it, as well as all these changes with no reason given for them, but I've said my peace on that before. :) I don't know..... As I said, most, but not all, of the 3/3.5 FR books are just missing some thing that seems to be in the older material.... |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
Edited by - Kuje on 22 Jun 2004 18:12:23 |
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Mystery_Man
Senior Scribe
USA
455 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jun 2004 : 17:46:15
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quote:
Originally posted by kuje31
As I said, most, but not all, of the 3/3.5 FR books are just messing some thing that seems to be in the older material....
Very simply, not enough Ed Greenwood. Not to slight the current batch of writers of the sourcebooks, they're doing a fine job. But Ed is the hand of god as far as the Realms are concerned. It is his heart that pumps the blood that brings the Realms to life. |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jun 2004 : 18:17:25
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quote:
Originally posted by Elf_Friend
Very simply, not enough Ed Greenwood. Not to slight the current batch of writers of the sourcebooks, they're doing a fine job. But Ed is the hand of god as far as the Realms are concerned. It is his heart that pumps the blood that brings the Realms to life.
That most likely is very much one of the reasons, aye! |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jun 2004 : 18:41:49
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quote:
Originally posted by kuje31
That most likely is very much one of the reasons, aye!
Which is why I have high hopes for Serpent's Kingdom. He and Eric Boyd both worked on the tome. |
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Lashan
Learned Scribe
USA
235 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jun 2004 : 11:28:29
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I definatly go through phases where I am not interested in FR. It happened all before 3E, too. I have tried to read the FR novels, but I just can't get into them. I don't like them. I also saw a big change in product line and attention in 2E that I didn't like. Well, for one, they did the whole ToT and I hated Cyric. Also, it seems that they started to focus too much on the Harpers, the Seven Sisters, whacky things like Silverfire, drow, iconic NPCs, more drow, and other stuff that just seemed kinda hooky.
I find that I need to read the old sourcebooks again, or find ones that I haven't read to perk my interests. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jun 2004 : 14:11:45
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I've never lost interest in the Realms. From it's introduction into my weekly D&D game in 1987, to the release of the PGtF -- there has never been a single moment when I've thought... "I no longer have any interest in the Realms".
In fact, my interest in the Realms is what prompted my interest in other settings. The first FR references to the Outer Planes in the original boxed set prepared my mind for the vast possibilities that would eventually come to be with the release of the Planescape setting. The expansion of the Realms into the sphere of the Spelljammer setting also exposed me to the "fun" of running D&D in space. My love of the Realms also introduced me to the dark world of the Ravenloft setting. The fate of Gondegal always intrigued me. The only setting that didn't have a connection to the Realms for me, was Dragonlance, the first TSR RPG I ever played.
So you see, my interest in the Realms lies at the very heart of my entire interest into the worlds of TSR/WotC...
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
Edited by - The Sage on 23 Jun 2004 14:12:46 |
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3catcircus
Acolyte
32 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jun 2004 : 13:40:53
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Long-time lurker, first post...
For me, I don't think the problem is the Realms themselves, so much as it is the "barely-controlled chaos" that is WotC. Every 3.x product they've released has had umpteen errata and revisions (or else is sorely in need of such). The problem with that is that the errata or revision isn't an update of a timeline, but with the mechanics of the game itself. There is, for example, a feat, skill, whatever, that may be in 4 or 5 different publications and none of them are in synch with each other. It is frustrating to have to have an encyclopedia or spreadsheet (I do) just to track the errata. I use a spreadsheet so that I can see the history of 3.x information - feats, skills, spells, etc. For example - a Realms-specific spell such as Nybor's Gentle Reminder - appears in Magic of Faerun, then in Unapproachable East, and yet again in Player's Guide to Faerun - each time with revisions.
It would be better for everyone if revisions were not provided in each hard-cover publication. WotC should maintain a "history" file that shows when a given mechanic (spell, item, feat, class, etc.) first made an appearance, followed by any updates. This is important for two reasons. First - it eliminates the need to thumb through literally dozens of books to find the "latest, correct version" of whatever mechanic you are looking for - all you gotta do is have a copy of the errata. Secondly, and more importantly, it leaves a whole bunch of room to include all of that "unnecessary fluff" that would be (was) cut from the finished product.
I find that I spend so much time keeping the errata in order, that I have less time to research the "fluff." WotC's 3.x offerings, of course, don't help because they are sorely lacking in fluff. I find it reprehensible on WotC's part that I can thumb through Cormyr, Volo's Guide to Cormyr, The Horde Campaign, and the 3 Horde novels and come up with a framework for the Cormyrean Army Order of Battle, yet I get no mention of the updated leadership of the army (Azoun dead, Alusair running the show, etc) in FRCS or PGtF.
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jun 2004 : 15:14:56
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quote:
Originally posted by 3catcircus
I find it reprehensible on WotC's part that I can thumb through Cormyr, Volo's Guide to Cormyr, The Horde Campaign, and the 3 Horde novels and come up with a framework for the Cormyrean Army Order of Battle, yet I get no mention of the updated leadership of the army (Azoun dead, Alusair running the show, etc) in FRCS or PGtF.
A good example on how things have changed. However, I think reprehensible is a bit strong to put on WOTC's part. They are creating FR products with characteristics they believe will sell the most units. That obviously means very little lore and more crunch than even in some cereals. I hate that. But, I'm at a loss as to what to do to change this fact outside of deciding to stop purchasing FR gaming products to show my dissatisfaction. And I'm not at that point...yet. |
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3catcircus
Acolyte
32 Posts |
Posted - 27 Jun 2004 : 16:34:25
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quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlack
A good example on how things have changed. However, I think reprehensible is a bit strong to put on WOTC's part. They are creating FR products with characteristics they believe will sell the most units. That obviously means very little lore and more crunch than even in some cereals. I hate that. But, I'm at a loss as to what to do to change this fact outside of deciding to stop purchasing FR gaming products to show my dissatisfaction. And I'm not at that point...yet.
Okay - maybe "unconscionable" works better....
There are few practical fixes for this. Sure - Ed Greenwood retaking control of the realms is a fix - just not practical since I don't think Hasbro would ever let that happen - not that they would put much effort into the product line now eberron is out. Rather - regardless of how worthless they make the product line become due to poor product support and poor new product efforts, it is still intellectual property that they'd have to have a very significant offer to license it to someone else.
Sure - boycotting FR products is another non-practical fix - it just makes the job of updating and maintaining realmslore that much harder when new products are available that you don't have a copy of yet.
The only semi-practical fix I see is possibly a grass-roots community effort to gather up all of the lore out there, vet it somehow, and begin updating outdated, inaccurate, or missing lore.
Unfortunately, I don't know just how well this idea would work. The only area I've seen it work even half-way decently is in the open-source software arena, and in the NWN community.
Oh well - just my $0.02 |
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Losing interest in the Realms
