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Phantom_Lord
Seeker
Pakistan
92 Posts |
 Posted - 03 Jun 2004 : 13:30:43
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When and how did Khelben or the Harpers come across this and where can I find the details of such an instance...
Thanks...
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Ponka! Kaddu! |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6666 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jun 2004 : 14:52:31
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How the Harpers came across the Scepter has never been detailed. Steven Schend just stated in "Cloak & Dagger" that they had it and that Khelben leaked its location to Fzoul and the Zhentarim through sneaky, subtle means.
In real life, the design team for the "Cloak & Dagger" accessory and we few brainstormers who tagged along were in complete agreement that this artifact was obscenely powerful and needed to be nuked - not totally and utterly, as we allowed DMs some wiggle room to re-constitute it and have it come back if they so desired. Basically, we "Rod of Seven Parts"-ed it.
-- George Krashos
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"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Sarta
Senior Scribe
USA
505 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jun 2004 : 15:23:28
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quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
In real life, the design team for the "Cloak & Dagger" accessory and we few brainstormers who tagged along were in complete agreement that this artifact was obscenely powerful and needed to be nuked - not totally and utterly, as we allowed DMs some wiggle room to re-constitute it and have it come back if they so desired. Basically, we "Rod of Seven Parts"-ed it.
... kind of like the Gatekeeper's Crystal, eh? 
Sarta |
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Phantom_Lord
Seeker
Pakistan
92 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jun 2004 : 05:35:59
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Mr George Krashos, thanks for that info.
Now if we could only get Mr Steven Schend himself...  |
Ponka! Kaddu! |
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Steven Schend
Forgotten Realms Designer & Author
USA
1715 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jun 2004 : 03:07:42
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quote:
Originally posted by Phantom_Lord
Mr George Krashos, thanks for that info.
Now if we could only get Mr Steven Schend himself...
 What'd I do? I don't want to be "Rod of Seven Parted"!
What info did you need? I thought George covered it all just fine.
By the by, Ed designed the Gatekeeper's Crystal to do exactly what it did and we just picked it up and used it on Hellgate Keep. Exactly why, I can't say. 
Steven
Who hated the Scepter of the Sorcerer Kings for the same reason he never used demons and devils in his game campaigns--too overly powerful and about as subtle as a shovel to the face |
For current projects and general natter, see www.steveneschend.com
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Sarta
Senior Scribe
USA
505 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jun 2004 : 04:04:12
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quote:
Originally posted by Steven Schend
By the by, Ed designed the Gatekeeper's Crystal to do exactly what it did and we just picked it up and used it on Hellgate Keep. Exactly why, I can't say.
Oh, no, I wasn't picking on you guys for that. I thought it was a very creative use for it. You also left it broken in three parts and scattered to the winds, hence my rod of seven parts comment.
I guess I was trying to make a comment about the fact that the new novel, "The Last Mythal" has it put back together and being used for no good purpose.
Sarta |
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Steven Schend
Forgotten Realms Designer & Author
USA
1715 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jun 2004 : 18:50:33
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quote:
Originally posted by Sarta
quote:
Originally posted by Steven Schend
By the by, Ed designed the Gatekeeper's Crystal to do exactly what it did and we just picked it up and used it on Hellgate Keep. Exactly why, I can't say.
Oh, no, I wasn't picking on you guys for that. I thought it was a very creative use for it. You also left it broken in three parts and scattered to the winds, hence my rod of seven parts comment.
I guess I was trying to make a comment about the fact that the new novel, "The Last Mythal" has it put back together and being used for no good purpose.
Sarta
Well, only one piece of the GKC got vaulted across the planes, as I recall, so it's definitely recoverable. I wonder if the Mistmaster held onto the one local piece, but I don't recall right now. (Now there's a character of Ed's that's lurked in the backgrounds for years and we could certainly stand to know more about him, but that's a plan for another day.)
I for one am looking forward to seeing what Rich is doing as well. From all the advance comments from Ed and a few others, it sounds like it's going to rock a lot of people's worlds (and not in an RSE sense).
Steven |
For current projects and general natter, see www.steveneschend.com
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Sarta
Senior Scribe
USA
505 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jun 2004 : 20:14:31
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quote:
Originally posted by Steven Schend
I wonder if the Mistmaster held onto the one local piece, but I don't recall right now. (Now there's a character of Ed's that's lurked in the backgrounds for years and we could certainly stand to know more about him, but that's a plan for another day.)
That's for sure. The Mistmaster's always been one of my favorite npc's. I couldn't help but notice his shift from Leira worship to Deneir, rather than to say Mystra. Kind of makes you wonder if he chose Deneir in order to help complete Leira's Metatext.
He's become a prominant NPC in my campaign due to a few factors. The pc's are working for him, but I've kept him as enigmatic as possible.
Sarta |
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Phantom_Lord
Seeker
Pakistan
92 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jun 2004 : 06:10:08
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quote:
Originally posted by Steven Schend
quote:
Originally posted by Phantom_Lord
Mr George Krashos, thanks for that info.
Now if we could only get Mr Steven Schend himself...
What'd I do? I don't want to be "Rod of Seven Parted"!
What info did you need? I thought George covered it all just fine.
Well then thats that.  |
Ponka! Kaddu! |
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Phineas of Oghma
Acolyte
USA
11 Posts |
Posted - 31 Aug 2005 : 06:57:56
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quote:
Originally posted by Sarta
I guess I was trying to make a comment about the fact that the new novel, "The Last Mythal" has it put back together and being used for no good purpose.
Sarta
I definitely want to be spoilered on this, if at all possible, Sarta. The Scepter of the Sorcerer Kings is becoming my new Realms obsession and Cloak & Dagger didn't tell me as much about it as I had hoped? Can you tell me anything about the artifact's use in the aforementioned novel? |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6666 Posts |
Posted - 31 Aug 2005 : 07:52:32
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Sarta was referring to the Gatekeeper's Crystal, used by Sarya in the novel, not the Scepter of the Sorcerer Kings. That bit of Netherese craftsmanship remains scattered throughout Faerūn and the planes.
-- George Krashos
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"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Phineas of Oghma
Acolyte
USA
11 Posts |
Posted - 31 Aug 2005 : 13:58:00
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quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
Sarta was referring to the Gatekeeper's Crystal, used by Sarya in the novel, not the Scepter of the Sorcerer Kings. That bit of Netherese craftsmanship remains scattered throughout Faerūn and the planes.
-- George Krashos
Curses! Thank you for the clarification! |
Edited by - Phineas of Oghma on 31 Aug 2005 14:01:16 |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 31 Aug 2005 : 14:43:10
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And for more lore on the Gatekeeper's Crystal, see Volo's Guide to All Things Magical (available as a free download here) as well as the 2e FR adventure Hellgate Keep.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
Edited by - The Sage on 31 Aug 2005 14:46:04 |
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Osieu
Acolyte
26 Posts |
Posted - 02 Sep 2005 : 07:49:13
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quote:
Originally posted by Phantom_Lord
When and how did Khelben or the Harpers come across this and where can I find the details of such an instance...
Thanks...
Scepter of the Sorcerer-Kings is detailed in 2E the Book of Artifacts (or something like that). IIRC, it's once in the possession of the Harper King, a powerful lich mage.
The Harper King was destoryed by Elminster, so it's very likely that El took the Scepter after defeating the lich and left it to the Harpers.
At least that's what I believe. |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 02 Sep 2005 : 09:00:53
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quote:
Originally posted by Osieu
quote:
Originally posted by Phantom_Lord
When and how did Khelben or the Harpers come across this and where can I find the details of such an instance...
Thanks...
Scepter of the Sorcerer-Kings is detailed in 2E the Book of Artifacts (or something like that). IIRC, it's once in the possession of the Harper King, a powerful lich mage.
The Harper King was destoryed by Elminster, so it's very likely that El took the Scepter after defeating the lich and left it to the Harpers.
At least that's what I believe.
Khelben gave it to Fzoul in agreement for the Zhent's not to come west for many years. It was shattered by Fzoul. :) |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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Phineas of Oghma
Acolyte
USA
11 Posts |
Posted - 02 Sep 2005 : 14:32:57
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quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
Khelben gave it to Fzoul in agreement for the Zhent's not to come west for many years. It was shattered by Fzoul. :)
Now that I have my hands on a hard copy of Cloak & Dagger, I'm getting more details. I still can't determine:
- Where the five pieces may have gone (C&D advises "scattered across the planes")
- If the texts assume it can be re-assembled
- Which god/gods fell silent when Fzoul used the Scepter (if stabbing Faram the banelich through the heart is considered a legitimate use of its powers)
Anyone know where I can find out more, if there is more to find? Grammercies in advance! |
Edited by - Phineas of Oghma on 02 Sep 2005 14:33:40 |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 02 Sep 2005 : 17:12:32
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quote:
Originally posted by Phineas of Oghma
Now that I have my hands on a hard copy of Cloak & Dagger, I'm getting more details. I still can't determine:
- Where the five pieces may have gone (C&D advises "scattered across the planes")
- If the texts assume it can be re-assembled
- Which god/gods fell silent when Fzoul used the Scepter (if stabbing Faram the banelich through the heart is considered a legitimate use of its powers)
Anyone know where I can find out more, if there is more to find? Grammercies in advance!
None of these were ever answered but maybe you can go bug Steven and see if he'll answer. :) |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 02 Sep 2005 : 22:24:41
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quote:
Originally posted by Phineas of Oghma
Now that I have my hands on a hard copy of Cloak & Dagger, I'm getting more details. I still can't determine:
- Where the five pieces may have gone (C&D advises "scattered across the planes")
Scattered across the planes is as good an answer as any. I'd have one piece in a remote location on the Prime, and the rest scattered across other planes. I'd not expect any pieces to wind up in or near deific Realms, unless a piece was found and brought there by the deity's followers.
quote:
Originally posted by Phineas of Oghma
If the texts assume it can be re-assembled
I don't believe this has ever been discussed... However, multi-part artifacts are usually quite resilient, and can often be reassembled by simply joining together the pieces.
quote:
Originally posted by Phineas of Oghma
Which god/gods fell silent when Fzoul used the Scepter (if stabbing Faram the banelich through the heart is considered a legitimate use of its powers)
I've been wondering this, myself...
quote:
Originally posted by Phineas of Oghma
Anyone know where I can find out more, if there is more to find? Grammercies in advance!
Unfortunately, there is next to no information about this plotline beyond that which was in Cloak & Dagger. The tome was one of the last 2E products, and when 3E came out, it was basically ignored and/or shunted into footnote status.
Now... My muse has awakened. Some thoughts:
For reassmbling it, trying to find all the pieces could be one hell of an adventure. The pieces could be anywhere -- I'd not be adverse to dropping one somewhere off-Toril but still in Realmspace, if it worked for the campaign. And if you go with the Great Wheel cosmology, a shard could have wound up on one of the other game worlds.
A particular bit of fun could be if a deity has found at least a part of it, and is trying to collect the rest. It could be an evil deity, planning on using it against a rival, or it could be a good deity, intending to keep it from being misused.
The reassembly could be a bit trickier... Imagine finding all the pieces, using magic to hold them together, and then having to bathe it in the blood of a divine being! |
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Osieu
Acolyte
26 Posts |
Posted - 03 Sep 2005 : 12:34:10
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quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
quote:
Originally posted by Osieu
quote:
Originally posted by Phantom_Lord
When and how did Khelben or the Harpers come across this and where can I find the details of such an instance...
Thanks...
Scepter of the Sorcerer-Kings is detailed in 2E the Book of Artifacts (or something like that). IIRC, it's once in the possession of the Harper King, a powerful lich mage.
The Harper King was destoryed by Elminster, so it's very likely that El took the Scepter after defeating the lich and left it to the Harpers.
At least that's what I believe.
Khelben gave it to Fzoul in agreement for the Zhent's not to come west for many years. It was shattered by Fzoul. :)
I mean, that's possibly what happened BEFORE Khelben took the Scepter from the Harpers and made the deal with Fzoul. |
Edited by - Osieu on 03 Sep 2005 12:57:24 |
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Steven Schend
Forgotten Realms Designer & Author
USA
1715 Posts |
Posted - 04 Sep 2005 : 00:14:57
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quote:
Originally posted by Phineas of Oghma
quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
Khelben gave it to Fzoul in agreement for the Zhent's not to come west for many years. It was shattered by Fzoul. :)
Now that I have my hands on a hard copy of Cloak & Dagger, I'm getting more details. I still can't determine:
- Where the five pieces may have gone (C&D advises "scattered across the planes")
- If the texts assume it can be re-assembled
- Which god/gods fell silent when Fzoul used the Scepter (if stabbing Faram the banelich through the heart is considered a legitimate use of its powers)
Anyone know where I can find out more, if there is more to find? Grammercies in advance!
Well, like I've said before, we broke this mainly to acknowledge its existence (as it was written in a 2E core book, not an FR book). Its power levels were horribly unbalanced and broken, and it might've been Julia and Dale and I who wanted to make sure the godly status quo would stay put, now that all 3 books were finally done. Bluntly, I thought it was a bad idea so I found a way in-story to get rid of it and move another story along its path. End of story...or so I thought... 
The Five Pieces Have Gone: Wherever you as a GM want them to go. We advised you scatter them across the planes to avoid the problems the item will engender.
If you want them to be reassembled, it should be an epic quest just to find the pieces....and if you want them all accessible but not easy....put one each on Faerun, Zakhara, Kara-Tur, Maztica, and three of the unknown lands (FRCS p231) never explored by TSR or WotC. If you need a way to get to other lands, check out Horizon's Sails in Waterdeep; Winter Zulth might have a ship for you, provided you do some things for him as well....
We'll see ye all in 1412 when they might have found the pieces...and now they need to find magics powerful enough to bind them back together....like the tears of a repentent god mixed in the ashen remains of its creator the Harper King (good luck, there) and a ritual. The only other thing I can think of that'd have the power levels necessary to reforge/rebuild the Scepter might be a Grand Mage wearing the Highfire Crown (making him 14 High Mages in 1).
Seriously, this should not be a quick and simple adventure or even campaign. What it'll take to put this thing back together should be akin to trying to resurrect a god like Moander or Amaunator.
No gods fell silent when it was stabbed through Faram, as Fzoul didn't use the powers of the scepter. (You didn't think Khelben would actually give him real command words for that, did you? He set layers of spells on it so it seemed to respond to Fzoul's commands, but in the end, Fzoul simply used it in the most unsubtle but effective way and shoved the smaller end through Faram. Remember folks, you don't always have to use tools the way they're designed...as Manshoon proved when he slew one foe with a citrus spoon in 1315 DR. |
For current projects and general natter, see www.steveneschend.com
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DDH_101
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1272 Posts |
Posted - 04 Sep 2005 : 03:53:18
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| Could someone give some detailed stats on the Scepter of Sorcerer-Kings? I don't remember exactly all it's powers other than the one to disable a deity. |
"Trust in the shadows, for the bright way makes you an easy target." -Mask |
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Phineas of Oghma
Acolyte
USA
11 Posts |
Posted - 04 Sep 2005 : 07:48:04
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quote:
Originally posted by Steven Schend
Well, like I've said before...as Manshoon proved when he slew one foe with a citrus spoon in 1315 DR.
My profound thanks for this response, Mr. Schend. I don't know what my designs on the Scepter of the Sorcerer-Kings are, but I do know I have been utterly and hopelessly fascinated by it since coming across it in my early adolescent years in the Book of Artifacts. I may want to tell a story with it, or about it, I haven't quite decided, but it resonates strongly with my desire to illustrate in my campaign the relationships forged between deities and between deities and their faithful. This lorekeeper has much to think on. |
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khorne
Master of Realmslore
Finland
1073 Posts |
Posted - 04 Sep 2005 : 08:22:58
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quote:
Originally posted by Phineas of Oghma
[quote]Originally posted by Steven Schend
Well, like I've said before...as Manshoon proved when he slew one foe with a citrus spoon in 1315 DR.
A citrus spoon? I HAVE to learn more about this! |
If I were a ranger, I would pick NDA for my favorite enemy |
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warlockco
Master of Realmslore
USA
1695 Posts |
Posted - 04 Sep 2005 : 08:38:42
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quote:
Originally posted by khorne
quote:
Originally posted by Phineas of Oghma
[quote]Originally posted by Steven Schend
Well, like I've said before...as Manshoon proved when he slew one foe with a citrus spoon in 1315 DR.
A citrus spoon? I HAVE to learn more about this!
Sounds like a painful way to die. |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6666 Posts |
Posted - 04 Sep 2005 : 12:48:45
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Especially if some of the lemon juice from the spoon got in your eye ...
-- George Krashos
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"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 04 Sep 2005 : 14:29:59
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quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
Especially if some of the lemon juice from the spoon got in your eye ...
-- George Krashos
If someone was stabbing you with a citrus spoon, getting lemon juice in your eye would be the least of your concerns. 
"I'll cut your heart out with a spoon!"
(later) "I don't get it, cousin. Why a spoon?"
"Because it's dull! It'll hurt more, you twit!"
I've always loved that bit. |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 04 Sep 2005 : 14:30:42
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quote:
Originally posted by DDH_101
Could someone give some detailed stats on the Scepter of Sorcerer-Kings? I don't remember exactly all it's powers other than the one to disable a deity.
It was detailed in the old 2E Book of Artifacts. |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
Posted - 04 Sep 2005 : 14:52:11
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Who was the Harper King? (Presumably its not related to the Harper Organization)
*chuckle*
First the Sceptre of the Sorcerer King and then the Gate Keeper Crystal what is with Steven breaking all of Faeruns toys!
What exactly does the Sceptre of the Sorcerer Kings do? (I dont have the 2ed book book where its detailed). Is it any worse than the the God slaying Jathiman Dagger detailed in F&P?
With regard to putting it back together couldnt any deity be able to reassemble it?
Bane Cyric and Lathander it would be the ones Id suspect to try and reassemble it |
I am the King of Rome, and above grammar
Emperor Sigismund
"Its good to be the King!"
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Misericordia
Seeker
Italy
66 Posts |
Posted - 04 Sep 2005 : 15:22:06
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The Scepter rebound and massimize any spell or psionic targeted against the wielder.
9 times per day can heal or harm 2d12 hp, and 1 of this points is permanent gain or loss (with a max of 9 points permanently gained). Once per day can dispel magic automatically; the item to be dispelled must be touched by the scepter, and there's 2 in 6 chance to drain the item as per a rod of cancellation (artifats are immune).
And can banish the influence of a random chosen God for ten days! |
Omnia sunt communia. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 04 Sep 2005 : 15:26:49
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quote:
Originally posted by Dargoth
Who was the Harper King? (Presumably its not related to the Harper Organization)
He was a lich behind the Harpstars War. I believe this is covered in FOR4 Code of the Harpers.
quote:
Originally posted by Dargoth
*chuckle*
First the Sceptre of the Sorcerer King and then the Gate Keeper Crystal what is with Steven breaking all of Faeruns toys!
Good point... What's he going to break in Blackstaff, I wonder?
quote:
Originally posted by Dargoth
What exactly does the Sceptre of the Sorcerer Kings do? (I dont have the 2ed book book where its detailed). Is it any worse than the the God slaying Jathiman Dagger detailed in F&P?
It was designed by some Netherese to slay gods, but they didn't complete it. I don't recall all of its powers, but when a power is invoked, a random deity loses all influence on Toril (and only Toril) for 10 days -- no answered prayers, no granted spells, nothing.
quote:
Originally posted by Dargoth
With regard to putting it back together couldnt any deity be able to reassemble it?
Bane Cyric and Lathander it would be the ones Id suspect to try and reassemble it
Artifacts have usually been something beyond deific influence... A deity may have more resources to devote to finding the pieces and reassembling it, but that's about their only advantage.
And why would any deity want to reassemble it? Then it could be used -- and they might be the one to lose all Torilian contact for a week. |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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warlockco
Master of Realmslore
USA
1695 Posts |
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Scepter of the Sorcerer-Kings
