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Elmo The Clueless
Acolyte
Austria
2 Posts |
 Posted - 23 May 2004 : 22:06:31
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I my FR campaign i'm considerig switching to the "Great Tree" as they call it, including maybe some adaptions like a connection to the great wheel.
anyway, what i don't get yet is how summoning spells are affected by the new "channeled" astral plane and i would like to hear what you folks think about that issue, be it that you enlighten me with whatever the canon has to say about this or that some of you got their own ideas.
As I understand it you can't establish any kind of direct link between two outer planes through the astral. Does this mean that it is not possible to summon a fiend to any of the celestial planes? or an elemental? and what about the world tree/river of blood ? Can a wizard in the nine hells summon a demon, using the river of blood as a conduit ?
so, what do you say ?
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Edited by - Alaundo on 23 May 2004 23:29:48
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 24 May 2004 : 06:18:23
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I'm working on an alternate combination of both cosmologies for a friend at the moment, but it's still in it's formative stages, so there's really not a whole lot I can help you with.
I should be able to address this problem better once I have my copy of the PGtF returned (did you hear that D-brane...?  ), and can finish the major points to my cosmology.
Can you wait a few days?
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Sarelle
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
508 Posts |
Posted - 24 May 2004 : 11:32:13
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| Sage - do you mean a way to be make FR connected to both the Great Tree and the Great Wheel? If so, I'd be interested to hear your thoughts. |
Chair of the The Rightful Return of Monster Deities to FR Society (RRMDFRS)
My character, drawn by Liodain: Sarelle / Sarelle (smaller) |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 24 May 2004 : 13:23:13
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
Yes, I do Sarelle. If Alaundo approves, I'll try and make the work-up available through Candlekeep...
If you didn't know it, according to Rich, Sigil exists at the same time a top the Spire as well as in it's own seperate plane within FR's tree like Cynosure. So technically you can get to the Ring/Wheel through Sigil as well. He also said when I asked about the Staircase that it also does the same thing, so there are three ways that we know of to get between cosmologies. The Shadow Plane, Sigil, and the Staircase. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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Alaundo
Head Moderator
United Kingdom
5695 Posts |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 24 May 2004 : 13:30:40
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quote:
Originally posted by kuje31
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
Yes, I do Sarelle. If Alaundo approves, I'll try and make the work-up available through Candlekeep...
If you didn't know it, according to Rich, Sigil exists at the same time a top the Spire as well as in it's own seperate plane within FR's tree like Cynosure. So technically you can get to the Ring/Wheel through Sigil as well. He also said when I asked about the Staircase that it also does the same thing, so there are three ways that we know of to get between cosmologies. The Shadow Plane, Sigil, and the Staircase.
Kuje has picked up on one of the areas that I cover with my combined alternate cosmology... I do detail more options though...
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
Edited by - The Sage on 24 May 2004 13:33:08 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 24 May 2004 : 15:43:58
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I don't recall if I saw this somewhere, or if it was my own idea... But one thought for reconciling the Wheel with the Tree: The domains of the deities connect directly with the Realms. This is the Tree. Those domains, however, sit in the planes of the Great Wheel... So to get to the planes, you have to shortcut thru whichever deity's domain is appropriate.
Or just toss the Tree aside and stick with the Wheel.  |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Elmo The Clueless
Acolyte
Austria
2 Posts |
Posted - 24 May 2004 : 18:50:42
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well thank you sage, I'm definitely interested in that cosmology of yours, as I said, I'm tinkering with the Tree myself so any input is most welcome, especially from the learned sages of the keep.
I still got my problem with that channeled astral plane though. I find the idea of having some sort of barrier between the different planes quite intriguing, as it makes interplanar travel a bit more complicated. But considering that summoning spells would lose a lot of their usefulness if they were also affected (and why shouldn't they be) I just might do my players a favor and let the astral remain as it is.
Any of you know what the canon has to say about this ? |
Wait!... what if one of us gets measles?!  |
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Chyron
Learned Scribe
Hong Kong
279 Posts |
Posted - 25 May 2004 : 07:26:44
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Honestly the whole cosmology change has left me a bit confused….
In another thread it was discussed that there are no methods of traversing to other worlds (Krynn, Oerth, etc) via portals currently with the Great Tree cosmology. And Sigil was not said to exist under 3E cosmology.
So, does this mean one cannot worldwalk at all? Do any spells work? What does this do to the events like Dragon's "Wizards Three" series? How does Elminster do his worldwalking which he was known for? Or is that all erased now and he only "plane walks"?
Does Spelljamming not officially exist now? (not that I ever used it)
Will the new planar book affect Realms Cosmology at all?
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Just My Thoughts
Chyron :)
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 25 May 2004 : 08:57:00
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quote:
Originally posted by Chyron
Honestly the whole cosmology change has left me a bit confused….
You're not the only one.
quote:
Originally posted by Chyron
In another thread it was discussed that there are no methods of traversing to other worlds (Krynn, Oerth, etc) via portals currently with the Great Tree cosmology. And Sigil was not said to exist under 3E cosmology.
So, does this mean one cannot worldwalk at all? Do any spells work? What does this do to the events like Dragon's "Wizards Three" series? How does Elminster do his worldwalking which he was known for? Or is that all erased now and he only "plane walks"?
The basic intent of the new cosmology is to totally separate the Realms from everything else. Officially, the Realms is all there is -- there's no other worlds out there. Since we know various races and groups and even deities have come from other worlds, that presents a problem that is still unresolved.
quote:
Originally posted by Chyron
Does Spelljamming not officially exist now? (not that I ever used it)
No other worlds to get to, so no point for Spelljammer. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 25 May 2004 : 09:24:04
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quote:
Originally posted by Chyron
Does Spelljamming not officially exist now? (not that I ever used it)
Will the new planar book affect Realms Cosmology at all?
Most of your post has already been adequately dealt with by other scribes. I'll just address these last points.
There is a current interpretation on Spelljammer for 3e. It's called Shadow of the Spider Moon and was released in Dungeon #92.
The Planar Handbook, due for release in July will deal with the D&D core cosmology only...
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Sarelle
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
508 Posts |
Posted - 25 May 2004 : 09:39:05
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by kuje31
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
Yes, I do Sarelle. If Alaundo approves, I'll try and make the work-up available through Candlekeep...
If you didn't know it, according to Rich, Sigil exists at the same time a top the Spire as well as in it's own seperate plane within FR's tree like Cynosure. So technically you can get to the Ring/Wheel through Sigil as well. He also said when I asked about the Staircase that it also does the same thing, so there are three ways that we know of to get between cosmologies. The Shadow Plane, Sigil, and the Staircase.
Kuje has picked up on one of the areas that I cover with my combined alternate cosmology... I do detail more options though...
Also several direct gates littered throughout the dark corners of the world: e.g. Throrgar (I know it is meant to be errat'd, kuje, but until it is, its canon, right?)
This is basically how I play my FR - the cosmology that it belongs to/belongs to it is the Great Tree, but the Great Wheel can also be accessed. I also have the deific Realms in the Great Tree dually on the appropriate Great Tree plane and on the appropriate 2e Great Wheel Realm, so if someone went to the Outlands marketplace of the 4 trade deities of different worlds (mentioned in [i[For Duty and Deity[/i]), then they could access the Marketplace Eternal, from which they could travel to the other realms of Brightwater.
Just how I work it, IMCs.
Thanks for this, Sage, I eagerly await its publication. |
Chair of the The Rightful Return of Monster Deities to FR Society (RRMDFRS)
My character, drawn by Liodain: Sarelle / Sarelle (smaller) |
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Sarelle
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
508 Posts |
Posted - 25 May 2004 : 09:44:53
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quote:
Orginally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Chyron
In another thread it was discussed that there are no methods of traversing to other worlds (Krynn, Oerth, etc) via portals currently with the Great Tree cosmology. And Sigil was not said to exist under 3E cosmology.
So, does this mean one cannot worldwalk at all? Do any spells work? What does this do to the events like Dragon's "Wizards Three" series? How does Elminster do his worldwalking which he was known for? Or is that all erased now and he only "plane walks"?
The basic intent of the new cosmology is to totally separate the Realms from everything else. Officially, the Realms is all there is -- there's no other worlds out there. Since we know various races and groups and even deities have come from other worlds, that presents a problem that is still unresolved.
The PtGF does finallu state that travel to other worlds, via the Shadow Plane, is possible - meaning the 2e references have been re-made canon.
And Rich Baker has stated that the references to Sigil in 3e products are correct - the Sigil accessible from FR is the Sigil of he Great Wheel.
So all is not lost!
(Hee hee. I beat you to your traditional post kuje!!  ) |
Chair of the The Rightful Return of Monster Deities to FR Society (RRMDFRS)
My character, drawn by Liodain: Sarelle / Sarelle (smaller) |
Edited by - Sarelle on 25 May 2004 09:45:48 |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 25 May 2004 : 17:53:39
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quote:
Originally posted by Sarelle
(Hee hee. I beat you to your traditional post kuje!! )
You only half beat me since I said most of that on the 24th. :) |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 28 May 2004 : 08:21:54
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quote:
Originally posted by Sarelle
Thanks for this, Sage, I eagerly await its publication.
That's good to hear. I'll just let you know that things are now proceeding smoothly. With some of the advanced planar details of the 'Planar Handbook' that I have seen, the few obstacles I had should now be easy to cross...
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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cpthero2
Great Reader
USA
2286 Posts |
Posted - 30 Sep 2018 : 16:36:03
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Master Sage,
Did this discussion ever get moved elsewhere as I noticed happens on occasion here at the 'Keep? If so, I'd be interested to see where it went from there.
Best regards,
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Sarelle
Thanks for this, Sage, I eagerly await its publication.
That's good to hear. I'll just let you know that things are now proceeding smoothly. With some of the advanced planar details of the 'Planar Handbook' that I have seen, the few obstacles I had should now be easy to cross...
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Higher Atlar
Spirit Soaring |
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summoning on other planes (new cosmology)
