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OrnluTheWolf
Acolyte
USA
40 Posts |
 Posted - 21 May 2004 : 13:58:43
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I know that pretty much all the FR novels mention the time of troubles, and I know what it is, but which novels detail it's causes, effects, and resolution?
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Arivia
Great Reader
Canada
2965 Posts |
Posted - 21 May 2004 : 14:17:16
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| The Avatar series recounts these events-the series is composed of Shadowdale, Tantras, Waterdeep, Prince of Lies, and Crucible: The Trial of Cyric the Mad, if I'm not mistaken. All were reissued recently, so they should be easy to find. There are accompanying modules for Shadowdale, Tantras, and Waterdeep-those are 2e and will be harder to collect. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 21 May 2004 : 15:22:15
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quote:
Originally posted by Arivia
There are accompanying modules for Shadowdale, Tantras, and Waterdeep-those are 2e and will be harder to collect.
And from what I've heard, unless you're trying to get your hands on everything (as I am), then those modules aren't worth the effort of finding. |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 21 May 2004 : 16:24:34
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
And from what I've heard, unless you're trying to get your hands on everything (as I am), then those modules aren't worth the effort of finding.
I concur. |
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OrnluTheWolf
Acolyte
USA
40 Posts |
Posted - 21 May 2004 : 19:11:21
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I'm currently bidding on an auction for the Avatar triology. I just finished Prince of Lies yesterday, which breaks my rule of read everything in series order, but I enjoyed it despite the confusion.
Oddly enough, I was basicly booted off of WotC for this exact same question.
On a side note: have any of you DM's out there made your PCs into God's, whether through similar means as Cyric and Midnight/Mystra or through some other mechanisms? |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 21 May 2004 : 19:57:03
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quote:
Originally posted by OrnluTheWolf
On a side note: have any of you DM's out there made your PCs into God's, whether through similar means as Cyric and Midnight/Mystra or through some other mechanisms?
I've not yet had the chance to DM, but, given the chance, I would not have any PCs become gods. I can't even see going epic with a group of PCs, much less going beyond that... |
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Kameron M. Franklin
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
228 Posts |
Posted - 21 May 2004 : 21:10:55
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| As a rule of thumb, I neither DM nor play games were PCs get higher than 15th level, on average. |
"You keep saying that word. I do not think it means what you think it means." --Inigo Montoya, The Princess Bride |
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Sarta
Senior Scribe
USA
505 Posts |
Posted - 22 May 2004 : 02:20:48
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quote:
Originally posted by OrnluTheWolf
On a side note: have any of you DM's out there made your PCs into God's, whether through similar means as Cyric and Midnight/Mystra or through some other mechanisms?
The closest I've ever come is that I played in a demi-god game at Dundracon about 10 years ago. My highest level character was a level 11 halfling fighter swashbuckler, but the dm from the game I had just gotten out of offered to loan me his demi-god character's sidekick, who also happened to be a demi-god.
Needless to say, I had a very hard time keeping a straight face throughout the adventure and am quite certain that I did not do a very good job living up to the other player's vision of proper sidekick behavior. There's something downright hilarious when looking for your AC you notice a line through the box and are told that the artifact armor you are wearing makes you invunlnerable to damage in combat.
I'd say that it could be very fun as a one-shot game or a focused short series of games, but would not lend itself as well to long-term campaign play.
Sarta |
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Darth KTrava
Learned Scribe
USA
172 Posts |
Posted - 22 May 2004 : 23:50:27
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We may play epic characters (in the 33-36th level range) but I doubt any of them are destined for divinity.... It's enough that their legacy will live on in bardic tales.
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Evil will be dealt with swiftly as it is my duty to remove such evil from my presence.
-Rozhena, Cleric/Divine Champion of Torm |
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OrnluTheWolf
Acolyte
USA
40 Posts |
Posted - 22 May 2004 : 23:53:11
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Alright, this is way off topic now, but I'm gonna diverge anyway.
My old DnD group took turns DMing. First was Joel, the only experienced player (the only one who had a DM's guide when we first started), then David, then Corey, then Me, then Hunter. Hunter was the munchkin of the group. He was the most horrible munchkin imaginable. He apparently had a nack for finding miswordings in the rules, and was VERY good at it. For example, the 3.0 player's handbook, under the Paladin's lay-on-hands ability, simply says levels instead of Paladin levels, so he always started as a level one paladin before he would multi-class. He also found a loophole out of the multiclass XP penalty (a REALLY nit-picky one too).
Anyway, Hunter got to DM, and he started our PC's at level 12 inside of the Zentil Keep dungeons. We escaped, after stumbling accidentally into the armory, where we picked up ~300,000 GP worth of items EACH! He was giving 3x normal XP, so we hit level 20 in about 2 weeks, where I got tired and quit. By the end of Hunter's campaign, my best friend Lance was level 68, and had recieved stat upgrades from various God's as a reward for killing their rival dieties, making his stats all 150+.
To top it all off, Hunter showed Lance a loophole in a Sword and Fist presteige class which allows him to multiply all of his stats by his charisma bonus. (I forget exactly how this works, but it seemed pretty legitimate). Alot of rules were bent without being broken by both the PC's and the DM, but Lance's level 68 monk defeated every deity in Faiths and Pantheons in less than 4 rounds.
That's why I think DM's should never play epic level campaigns. |
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Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
Posted - 23 May 2004 : 09:09:09
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Gyah! I think I need to take a shower after reading that acount of shameless munchkinism!  |
Hell hath no fury like all of Candlekeep rising in defense of one of its own.
Download the brickfilm masterpiece by Leftfield Studios! See this page for more. |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 23 May 2004 : 15:32:45
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quote:
Originally posted by OrnluTheWolf
Alot of rules were bent without being broken by both the PC's and the DM, but Lance's level 68 monk defeated every deity in Faiths and Pantheons in less than 4 rounds.
I wonder how these conversations go in a game?
Character #1: "What shall we do today?"
Character #2: "Kill Drizzt?"
Character #3: "Did that last week. Remember!"
Character #1: "I know. Let's go kill Mystra."
Characters 2+3: "Yeah!"
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OrnluTheWolf
Acolyte
USA
40 Posts |
Posted - 23 May 2004 : 19:33:13
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quote:
I wonder how these conversations go in a game?
Character #1: "What shall we do today?"
Character #2: "Kill Drizzt?"
Character #3: "Did that last week. Remember!"
Character #1: "I know. Let's go kill Mystra."
Characters 2+3: "Yeah!"
That's actually very similar to those discussions, except substitute Elminster for Drizzt, and change Mystra to The Greater Powers. |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 23 May 2004 : 20:51:17
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quote:
Originally posted by OrnluTheWolf
That's actually very similar to those discussions, except substitute Elminster for Drizzt, and change Mystra to The Greater Powers.
All the Greater Powers? With or without a Moonblade? |
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OrnluTheWolf
Acolyte
USA
40 Posts |
Posted - 24 May 2004 : 04:21:53
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quote:
Originally posted by OrnluTheWolf
That's actually very similar to those discussions, except substitute Elminster for Drizzt, and change Mystra to The Greater Powers.
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All the Greater Powers? With or without a Moonblade?
Well, he defeated all fo the greater powers, one by one, with whatever weapons the deities usually weild (whatever ones were listed in the sourcebook). Lance was using a set of enchanted bracers, I think they were +12 Flaming burst, vorpal, brilliant energy, poisoned, and some other stuff (which should never happen, but the DM allowed it). If you think about the expoit he was using, his Charisma was 150+, which means the mod was 70+ if my math is correct. So, if he can multiply EACH of his stats by his Charisma, he would have a Str of 150+ times 70+, or a minimum of 10,500 strenghth. Thats a mod of 5,225+. With more than +5000 to hit AND damage (and a +12 weapon to get around damage resistance), could anything stand a chance? |
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Kameron M. Franklin
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
228 Posts |
Posted - 24 May 2004 : 17:22:35
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| And people find this fun? The amount of math required just to figure out all that stuff is enough to kill any fleeting enjoyment I might have had. |
"You keep saying that word. I do not think it means what you think it means." --Inigo Montoya, The Princess Bride |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 24 May 2004 : 17:44:47
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quote:
Originally posted by Kameron M. Franklin
And people find this fun? The amount of math required just to figure out all that stuff is enough to kill any fleeting enjoyment I might have had.
LOL! |
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James P. Davis
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
244 Posts |
Posted - 24 May 2004 : 20:29:28
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I actually love epic-level play, if it is properly earned by the player. I find it easier to write games for tougher characters as I don't have to keep the "kid-gloves" on. You'll never hear one of my players bragging too much or too often about how powerful they are, they know perfectly well, there's always someone bigger, stronger, smarter, and faster. I would welcome anyone of them to one day challenge a god. Considering the time and resources needed to pull off such a feat (access to the plane, war with those followers there, battle with the god's chosen champions, proxies and so forth), it could take numerous game sessions and if successful (which I highly doubt!) it would make a truly epic tale and be worthy of bragging rights...but not for long...gods have friends, allies, and even enemies who might wish to take advantage of a new demi-power...
Personally if I ever played such a character, I would retire it as soon as it achieved divinity most likely, catering to followers and running a religion doesn't sound too exciting to me. It would be all about the journey from 1st level to demi-power which is likely to take many years the way we play.
Right now my group is just on the edge of 5th level, they've got a ways to go before they can even think about a dragon, much less a god. |
"Everybody is a book of blood; wherever we're opened, we're red."--Clive Barker
FR: RotD2:"Possessions"
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Israfel666
Acolyte
Italy
37 Posts |
Posted - 25 May 2004 : 18:15:39
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As a DM, my 'comfort zone' is approx. between 4th and 17th level.
During the first levels, I find it extremely boring to risk having good PCs slaughtered by a lucky goblin: it's realistic, but not fun. Also, few levels means little opportunity to correctly represent your character (if you only have one or two feats, how can a Waterdhavian duelist distinguish himself from a Drow warrior?)
At the highest levels, the power of the PCs make DMing possibly more rewarding, but extremely difficult - you always have to double-check everything not to turn it into a childishly easy challenge ("Wow, I love this half-dragon fire giant wielding a Huge and very enchanted greataxe they are going to face, who's angry at them for killing his dragon mother! [...] Ops, forgot the wizard had a scroll of Mordy's Disjunction in his backpack...  ")
As a player, well, it depends on the specific character. The reckless War Wizard evoker feels best at mid-levels (when his best spells, i.e. the ones he'll be casting more often, are fireballs and similars). The ascetic dwarven clan defender, who survived the destruction of its home citadel, works better as an epic or almost-epic character. The urchin rogue can only be a low-level character - at higher levels he needs to have evolved into a different character. |
Stat rosa pristina nomine, nomina nuda tenemus. |
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OrnluTheWolf
Acolyte
USA
40 Posts |
Posted - 26 May 2004 : 16:24:00
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I will pretty much agree with you, Israfel. My personal preference is 10-18, where I will be powerful enough to be proud, but not so powerful as to challenge Elminster or dieties (even minor ones). My personal favorite character I've ever played was a deep gnome conjurer who had Illusion as one of his forbidden schools. After level 12, he became a summoner (a self-created, DM approved PC). I liked the character because he had a great, detailed background, a love for adventure, some interesting quirks (the hatred of illusions), and power. I will openly admit that I am somewhat of a munchkin, but I don't like to roll-play, but rather to role-play.
Hopefully, as I head to a university this August, I can find a group again. I live in a tiny little town in Texas (~11,000 people), and they're only 6 of us who play. So, if you have a quarrel or simply don't like the way the others play, you're screwed. I'll be going to Texas A & M University, where there will be 50,000 people my own age, let alone in the town. I miss DnD, and am looking forward to getting a party together again. |
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Valondil the Ranger
Learned Scribe
USA
109 Posts |
Posted - 31 May 2004 : 05:27:11
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| My signature D&D player, Valondil the Ranger, is level fifteen and I'm perfectly comfortable where I am. |
--Your humble ranger,
Valondil
Check out my webpage at http://iankappos.blogspot.com/ |
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Josh Davids
Seeker
57 Posts |
Posted - 31 May 2004 : 09:07:02
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For me it all depends I haven’t played a D&D game in I think almost 9 years now when I played started out at first level and only made it to fifth before a polymorphed ancient red dragon anti paladin incinerated my paladin, umm three times, I gave up on him after the third time.
I mentioned before for the longest time I played free form rp and my first character eventually wound up not becoming a demigod but being as powerful as one. When I started him out I started with the concept of someone who was a bastard by birth, born to parents of both good and evil tendacies and then cursed with an artifact that gave him immortality. It had the power to literally absorb souls of those he killed which made him quite an interesting character. Every time he absorbed someone’s soul he gained their memories, emotions, weaknesses and quirks, so each time he became a whole new character, but it also gave him all their power as well. I played him for 7 years straight and overall my most liked character not because of the power he has but because of his vast depth as a character. I am slowly writing out his first novel sort of a pet project for me where towards the end he is confronted by someone who is trying to use the power he has to further their own goals. At one point he is asked why he doesn’t use his power more freely when he responds “it takes greater power to preserve life then it does to destroy it. You can set a house on fire by tossing a burning branch onto the thatch roofing, but to defend that house from burning requires the sacrifice of blood and sweat. So you tell me which requires more power to fend off an attack or to toss a burning branch?”
Right now he is just wondering around trying to purge the evil he committed while influenced by another artifact and redeem himself for the crimes he committed and the stain as he sees it that is on his soul. He dreads and in fact fears religion and will do all in his power to avoid it. He does it quite well, dressed in simple spun cotton and wool clothing died a dull brown, with a cloak and pouch that rests on his left him, the only two remarkable things about him is all the scars all over his body, an intricate design left over from three months of torture(it bites to be immortal when you are being tortured, you can’t die no matter how much you want to) and a great crystal sphere in his chest and walks everywhere barefoot.
Now a days though if I ever get the time to RP it is always low level characters, some magic users others aren’t. one I am hoping to find the sheet again for is a fighter in FR that will never use any magic anything, no magic sword, dagger, rinsg or armor not even being healed magically. When I finished playing him he was level I think 12 with two simple mithral weapons and +2 leather armor.
I found in this town there is hardly anyone to play with, it is always warhammer, ug. I am jonsing so bad right now for a forgotten realms game it isn’t even funny. But overall for me it all depends with the character, is it in them to be high level, or more importantly high powered or is it in them to be low key and low powered. I seem to prefer the characters with enough power to just barely skate on by yet come out ahead of the enemy. I also like characters who think or use their knowledge in fights rather then a +5 sword, why I am still partial to free form specially since they seemed to limit called shots etc from the rules.
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Lauzoril
Seeker
Finland
71 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jun 2004 : 21:45:18
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To get back to topic at hand.
There is also the Shadow of Avatar Trilogy written by Ed Greenwood.
The books are Cloak of Shadows, Shadows of Doom, All Shadows Fled.
They're Ed's take on the ToT event, more or less.
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"Death to the enemies of Bane."
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Sarta
Senior Scribe
USA
505 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jun 2004 : 23:28:56
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I wouldn't say they're Ed's take on what happened. However, they do tell what Elminster was doing during the whole fiasco.
Sarta |
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OrnluTheWolf
Acolyte
USA
40 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jun 2004 : 22:28:46
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Yes, back to the topic at hand:
I picked up the first three books a few weeks ago and am finishing the first one now. I've already finished Prince of Lies, and grabbed a copy of Crucible last weekend. I've been enjoying Shadowdale so far, but I don't really have much time to read.
I'd be very interested to know Ed's take on ToT or whatever Elminster was doing throughout the whole thing, whichever the books cover. |
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costas
Acolyte
Greece
8 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jun 2004 : 05:34:47
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i've read the 5 books of the avatar series, well the original trilogy didn't impress me that much but the next two books "prince of lies" and "crucible the trial of cyric the mad" were wonderfull. a lot of things happening there you shouldn't miss.
i wish i could get my hands on the books of the shadows of the avatar series and read alittle more of what elminster and storm did back in that period |
please cope with any spelling mistakes :) english is not my native language |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jun 2004 : 07:04:58
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quote:
Originally posted by costas
i've read the 5 books of the avatar series, well the original trilogy didn't impress me that much but the next two books "prince of lies" and "crucible the trial of cyric the mad" were wonderfull. a lot of things happening there you shouldn't miss.
I will fully concur with that statement! I've re-read the last two books a lot more than the original trilogy! 
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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VEDSICA
Senior Scribe
USA
466 Posts |
Posted - 27 Jun 2004 : 03:14:36
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| I liked all five books.I must also say that I loved the last two much better than the first three.Though it does happen to be my favorite series so far.That is until WoTSQ finishes. |
LIFE,BIRTH,BLOOD,DOOM---THE HOLE IN THE GROUND IS COMING ROUND SOON----BLS |
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DDH_101
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1272 Posts |
Posted - 27 Jun 2004 : 03:26:58
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| The only reason I myself like the Avatar series is because of the focus on the gods of Faerun and showing power and might that we often don't read about in mortal characters. |
"Trust in the shadows, for the bright way makes you an easy target." -Mask |
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Darth KTrava
Learned Scribe
USA
172 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jun 2004 : 18:29:51
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by costas
i've read the 5 books of the avatar series, well the original trilogy didn't impress me that much but the next two books "prince of lies" and "crucible the trial of cyric the mad" were wonderfull. a lot of things happening there you shouldn't miss.
I will fully concur with that statement! I've re-read the last two books a lot more than the original trilogy!
On the other hand, I've read the first 3 moreso than the last 2.
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Evil will be dealt with swiftly as it is my duty to remove such evil from my presence.
-Rozhena, Cleric/Divine Champion of Torm |
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Time of Troubles
