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ElfBane
Learned Scribe
USA
283 Posts |
 Posted - 11 Oct 2023 : 14:50:09
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Looking for information on petrifying. Specifically if someone can be un-petrified after "X" amount of years. Any help appreciated.
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Seravin
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1279 Posts |
Posted - 11 Oct 2023 : 18:39:57
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| Is there a time limit? Jack Ravenwild and Myrkyssa Jelan were petrified characters in the novels who became un-petrified 100 years on and being alive / well as if no time had stopped. Probably a few others (Minsc?) who survived the time skip in the setting by petrification as well. If they can do it 100 years I am not sure why they couldn't do the same for 100 years, providing the rock wasn't damaged in the interim. |
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Azar
Master of Realmslore
1308 Posts |
Posted - 11 Oct 2023 : 21:07:10
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| It's open to DM/writer interpretation (some would say "preference"). Just keep those statues away from polluted precipitation... |
Stand with anybody that stands right. Stand with him while he is right and part with him when he goes wrong.
Earth names in the Realms are more common than you may think. |
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Athreeren
Learned Scribe
140 Posts |
Posted - 11 Oct 2023 : 22:10:31
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quote:
Originally posted by Seravin
Is there a time limit? Jack Ravenwild and Myrkyssa Jelan were petrified characters in the novels who became un-petrified 100 years on and being alive / well as if no time had stopped. Probably a few others (Minsc?) who survived the time skip in the setting by petrification as well. If they can do it 100 years I am not sure why they couldn't do the same for 100 years, providing the rock wasn't damaged in the interim.
The limit for true resurrection is 200 years, so the limit for unpetrification could be at least that (as long as the statue doesn't erode away so much that stone to flesh would be unsafe). In fact, why isn't petrification used like cryonics in science-fiction? Sure, not everyone can afford the sixth level spell, and a cure is not guaranteed, but there are many situations where such a solution would be useful. |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 11 Oct 2023 : 22:22:24
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Reverse Petrification aka Stone-to-Flesh has no effective time limit.
But the spell description (in AD&D editions, at least) does specifically state that the unpetrified person will suffer any erosion, damage, and disfigurement which occurred to the stone statue. If an arm fell off (or got broken off) the statue then the freshly-unpetrified person would suffer the same amputation and, would most likely need pain control, would probably need the sharp edges of the "fresh" injury quickly sealed with a tourniquet, pressure bandage, or cauterization to prevent fatal blood loss. The rules did say a successful System Shock% roll needs to be made and ("at the DM's discretion") multiple System Shock% rolls or Death Saves might need to be made if the statue was "in poor condition".
Let's remember that regeneration processes, healing magics, poisons, and necromantic magics (along with enchantments and illusions and psionic powers and "consciousness") are all completely halted in the petrified target.
Let's just consider for a moment what might happen if you try to unpetrify a statue which has been decapitated or cleaved in twain or smashed to rubble.
Let's amuse ourselves with the possibilities of changing a statue's attire or location. Perhaps immersing it within water. Or placing it onto the Elemental Plane of Fire.
The argument about resurrection time limits has merit. Except I don't think a petrified person is actually dead - their "soul" or "spirit" or whatever has not left the body and begun some journey to an eternal afterlife - they can be un-stoned rather quickly and easily, it's a common magic which doesn't involve petitioning powers and invoking deities. |
[/Ayrik] |
Edited by - Ayrik on 11 Oct 2023 22:25:56 |
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Azar
Master of Realmslore
1308 Posts |
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ElfBane
Learned Scribe
USA
283 Posts |
Posted - 11 Oct 2023 : 23:38:06
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| Thank ALL you folks for the responses. I'm playing BG3, and Minsc is brought back from petrification after ~ 100 years.Just wanted to ask if that was possible. |
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Azar
Master of Realmslore
1308 Posts |
Posted - 11 Oct 2023 : 23:49:08
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quote:
Originally posted by ElfBane
Thank ALL you folks for the responses. I'm playing BG3, and Minsc is brought back from petrification after ~ 100 years.Just wanted to ask if that was possible.
Given the developer's...liberal...interpretations of D&D/FR lore, I wouldn't expect much. |
Stand with anybody that stands right. Stand with him while he is right and part with him when he goes wrong.
Earth names in the Realms are more common than you may think. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36793 Posts |
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bloodtide_the_red
Learned Scribe
USA
300 Posts |
Posted - 12 Oct 2023 : 05:27:01
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I can't think of any lore about a petrified creature coming back after a long time, so there is no reason it could not be possible.
In one of the Underdark books it's mentioned that many beholders stone people and animal for food later...
The Realms does have the Madedra(sp) the "male Medussa" that breaks stone victims apart and then turns them back into flesh and blood so they can eat them.
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Thelonius
Senior Scribe
Spain
730 Posts |
Posted - 12 Oct 2023 : 08:48:51
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| This could be the origin of some interesting from medieval phantasy to cyberpunk character origins, or even a Gargoyles style storyline for a game setting |
"If you are to truly understand, then you will need the contrast, not adherence to a single ideal." - Kreia
"I THINK I JUST HAD ANOTHER NEAR-RINCEWIND EXPERIENCE"- Discworld's Death frustrated after Rincewind scapes his grasp... again.
"I am death, come for thee" - Nimbul, from Baldur's Gate I just before being badly spanked
Sapientia sola libertas est |
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Athreeren
Learned Scribe
140 Posts |
Posted - 12 Oct 2023 : 12:22:32
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quote:
Originally posted by ElfBane
Thank ALL you folks for the responses. I'm playing BG3, and Minsc is brought back from petrification after ~ 100 years.Just wanted to ask if that was possible.
In Murder in Baldur's Gate, the statue is described thus: "A statue of a powerful warrior in plate armor stands in the Wide. Far from being the typical grim guardian, this warrior wears an enthusiastic grin and cradles a hamster in his hands. The late Orburt Lewel, an eccentric textiles merchant, erected the statue about seventy years ago [1412 DR]. According to legend, the featured figure is Minsc, a dull-witted but brave warrior of Rashemen who saved Lewel’s life from some forgotten danger."
During the course of the adventure, the statue is vandalised, as Minsc hands (and thus Boo) are cut off. The restoration is not described, but later depiction of the statue show no damage.
Eventually, Minsc and Boo come back through a wild surge from the sorcerer Delina. Wild surge are a convenient plot device, since it means the actual effect can be left ambiguous. I believe the comic book left it ambiguous whether those were the actual Minsc and Boo who had been petrified, or if wild surge somehow transformed the statue in what it represented. Descent into Avernus claims those are the real deal, but it could simply be the opinion of Baldurians, who went for the simplest explanation. The fact is that the statue looks much bigger than Minsc (an official tie-in to Murder in Baldur's gate describes it as 15-foot tall), and if he had been petrified, Minsc would have been quite old at the time, yet whatever his incarnation, he seems to be in his 20's or 30's. And Boo is definitely not normal, even by miniature giant space hamster standards.
TL;DR: Minsc should be considered as a special case, and we shouldn't try to deduce rules for petrification from him. |
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Demzer
Senior Scribe
876 Posts |
Posted - 12 Oct 2023 : 13:33:49
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| That's actually how you meet Branwen in BG1, but she has not been petrified for much time if I recall correctly. |
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Azar
Master of Realmslore
1308 Posts |
Posted - 12 Oct 2023 : 13:46:01
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quote:
Originally posted by Demzer
That's actually how you meet Branwen in BG1, but she has not been petrified for much time if I recall correctly.
It's one hell of a reward. Will you end up with a companion? Are they going to repay your kindness with a quickly attempted beheading? Should you expect insanity in the flesh?
Also, there's no reason why someone couldn't have been polymorphed and then petrified. Layers upon layers... |
Stand with anybody that stands right. Stand with him while he is right and part with him when he goes wrong.
Earth names in the Realms are more common than you may think. |
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Athreeren
Learned Scribe
140 Posts |
Posted - 12 Oct 2023 : 16:03:20
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quote:
Originally posted by Demzer
That's actually how you meet Branwen in BG1, but she has not been petrified for much time if I recall correctly.
That is correct, the person who petrified her is the Iron Throne agent who coordinates the mine operations with the bandits. It's not clear at what stage the plan was at the time, so she might have been petrified for months to maybe a year. The main question about this is of course how a less than level 6 mage manage to get a scroll of petrification, and why he would decide to waste it on her.
There are other examples in the game of people who have been petrified for a while. One is a woman who, if pressed for a reward, will give her rescuers her house. She doesn't seem to realise that said house appears to have been flooded for a very long time, which dates her petrification to "long ago". So far, I haven't found examples of ancient statues that brought back to life. Then again, I believe that different editions have not always been consistent on whether items get petrified (and for a given edition, the answer may depend on the method). If you find extremely realistic statues of people fighting, or with terrified expressions, and they are wearing actual clothes, there is doubt that those used to be real people. If people eventually came by, either they would have them freed out of the goodness of their heart, or out of a gamble that the loot would compensate for the cost of the stone salve or stone to flesh scroll.
I wonder how often sculptors make such statues as a prank, for people to waste their resources trying to restore the victims? |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11803 Posts |
Posted - 13 Oct 2023 : 16:47:38
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quote:
Originally posted by Athreeren
quote:
Originally posted by ElfBane
Thank ALL you folks for the responses. I'm playing BG3, and Minsc is brought back from petrification after ~ 100 years.Just wanted to ask if that was possible.
In Murder in Baldur's Gate, the statue is described thus: "A statue of a powerful warrior in plate armor stands in the Wide. Far from being the typical grim guardian, this warrior wears an enthusiastic grin and cradles a hamster in his hands. The late Orburt Lewel, an eccentric textiles merchant, erected the statue about seventy years ago [1412 DR]. According to legend, the featured figure is Minsc, a dull-witted but brave warrior of Rashemen who saved Lewel’s life from some forgotten danger."
During the course of the adventure, the statue is vandalised, as Minsc hands (and thus Boo) are cut off. The restoration is not described, but later depiction of the statue show no damage.
Eventually, Minsc and Boo come back through a wild surge from the sorcerer Delina. Wild surge are a convenient plot device, since it means the actual effect can be left ambiguous. I believe the comic book left it ambiguous whether those were the actual Minsc and Boo who had been petrified, or if wild surge somehow transformed the statue in what it represented. Descent into Avernus claims those are the real deal, but it could simply be the opinion of Baldurians, who went for the simplest explanation. The fact is that the statue looks much bigger than Minsc (an official tie-in to Murder in Baldur's gate describes it as 15-foot tall), and if he had been petrified, Minsc would have been quite old at the time, yet whatever his incarnation, he seems to be in his 20's or 30's. And Boo is definitely not normal, even by miniature giant space hamster standards.
TL;DR: Minsc should be considered as a special case, and we shouldn't try to deduce rules for petrification from him.
Hmmm.... about 70 years prior than 1412 DR.. so "about the 1340's". Doesn't sound right, since wasn't the storyline of the first baldur's gate after the ToT.
BTW, good reference Ayrik on the fact that the soul hasn't left the body. Its sometimes very important to remember that unlike our world... people in the forgotten realms actually KNOW that they have souls and they actually KNOW at least theoretically what happens with them. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Athreeren
Learned Scribe
140 Posts |
Posted - 13 Oct 2023 : 16:55:00
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quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
BTW, good reference Ayrik on the fact that the soul hasn't left the body. Its sometimes very important to remember that unlike our world... people in the forgotten realms actually KNOW that they have souls and they actually KNOW at least theoretically what happens with them.
Er... That's a good point, those should be ensouled statues. I wonder what the implications are. Do they register on alignment detection spells? Do they count as an occupied magic jar? What happens if one is made into a stone golem? |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 13 Oct 2023 : 20:12:55
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Petrification is used as a sort of baseline descriptor for what happens to travellers lost in the Phlogiston or Astral after too much time.
I'm not sure if these are actually petrified in the strict (magical) sense or if they're just in a "petrified-like" state. AD&D-era planeslore and Spelljammer lore were rather messy and vague in many ways.
Such "petrified" individuals can be revived, often by just placing them back into their normal life-sustaining environment (air, heat, etc). There's documented cases in the lore of people being revived after many decades, centuries, millennia have passed. |
[/Ayrik] |
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Petrification Lore
