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ElfBane
Learned Scribe
USA
283 Posts |
 Posted - 11 Aug 2023 : 22:48:07
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[quote]Originally posted by Athreeren
[quote]Originally posted by Zeromaru X
(and Shadowheart a demi-elf,)
seems to me that a demi-elf would be pretty nice, being Half-devine! |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 11 Aug 2023 : 23:48:23
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quote:
Originally posted by Zeromaru X
You know your old Realms are still there in your books, right? Nobody is forcing you to buy the new products. Leave the new generation enjoy their Realms as they like it.
And I don't see anything bad with targeting casual players. I started as a casual, playing a dragonborn paladin, then got interested in his home region (mostly for DMing purposes), and fell into the Realms rabbit hole and now care for the Realms as much as the old grodnards. Perhaps this will happen to the new generation. Perhaps not, but I'm not going to sour their experience with gatekeeping.
Welcome to the Cult of Drognard. An imperfect god for an imperfect world. |
[/Ayrik] |
Edited by - Ayrik on 11 Aug 2023 23:49:33 |
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TKU
Learned Scribe
USA
158 Posts |
Posted - 12 Aug 2023 : 01:29:13
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quote:
Originally posted by Athreeren
I haven't played the game yet, I've just seen videos. It seemed to me they relied on a lot of sometimes quite obscure canon, so they clearly researched the Realms. They also included things that don't fit quite well, but nothing on the scale of Irenicus, Suldanessalar, the Tree of Life, or the whole map of Amn. So could you give specifics (with the appropriate spoilers handling) about how it plays loose with canon, and how it's not the Realms? From what I've seen, my main complaint is that none of the returning characters have the same voice actors, which is understandable for the two PC, as that's a lot of lines to record, but for the other five I've seen who have cameos, it is a bit disappointing (especially since Siege of Dragonspear managed to gather so much of the whole cast).
I'm going to try to avoid spoiling you, since you seem at least somewhat interested in playing the game, but my assessment would be that the 'obscure' sources BGIII borrows from are not any more obscure than the sources used BG I+II (like the aforementioned Suldanessalar, which I long assumed to be an original creation of Bioware). though, considering how some lore bits are (mis)used in BG III, I wouldn't be surprised if a certain amount of their research for the game was done via the Wiki, but there is certainly a 'looesness' with how they handle aspects of the lore that is prevalent throughout the game, and not something I'd be willing pin entirely at WoTC's feet, as Zeromaru suggests. In fact, several major plotpoints hinge around certain thins regarding (ex) mindflayers that Larian had to retcon heavily to make the round peg of the plot they wanted go through the square hole of the preexisting lore. These are not retcons necessarily introduced by WoTC in 5e, but ones popping up for the first time under Larian's eye.
In regards to returning characters, being treated badly by the writing, I am not necessarily referring to the ones Larian advertised heavily in the leadup to release (Minsc and Jaheria), but others that don't get the honor of being recruitable companions in BG III. Viconia and Sarevok specifically. |
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Zeromaru X
Great Reader
Colombia
2470 Posts |
Posted - 12 Aug 2023 : 04:46:59
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| IIRC, I remember they said WotC gave them "a bible" with all the information they needed to know about the Realms. Something similar is mentioned by the people who wrote "Tomb of Annihilation", so I guess Larian had access to the same document. I guess they could have made changes and stuff, but those must have been approved by WotC first. |
Instead of seeking change, you prefer a void, merciless abyss of a world... |
Edited by - Zeromaru X on 12 Aug 2023 04:48:41 |
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TKU
Learned Scribe
USA
158 Posts |
Posted - 12 Aug 2023 : 05:00:23
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Didn't WotC say in regards to their 'canon policy' that things like video games, books etc had their own canon? They might have even specifically named BGIII, IDR.
Either way, the lore inconsistancies/retcons/whatever you want to call them, along with other things I think make it a pretty poor sequel to the first two games. It's hard to reconcile them IMO, and It doesn't really fit terribly well into the Realms as a whole, past or present-my opinion.
You'd have an easier time squaring the Dark Alliance games, I think. |
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Caolin
Senior Scribe
769 Posts |
Posted - 12 Aug 2023 : 06:06:26
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quote:
Originally posted by Zeromaru XThe only thing I disagree with you is about saying that the new players are wrong for enjoying something you dislike.
I never meant to imply that. I don't even understand the concept. Taste isn't something that has the atribute of right or wrong. I just don't like the tastes of the younger generations. I don't like that they are changing things I like. My feelings on it are that they should get their own things to like and not change the things created before they were born just to suit their own tastes. And yes I realize that's a fruitless thought. But that's how I feel and I'm not going to let anyone tell me I should feel differently. |
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Athreeren
Learned Scribe
140 Posts |
Posted - 12 Aug 2023 : 10:12:50
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quote:
Originally posted by TKU
I'm going to try to avoid spoiling you, since you seem at least somewhat interested in playing the game
I am very interested in the game, but I won't have time to do as many playthrough as I would want, so I'm letting myself getting spoiled in order to decide what playthrough would best suit my needs.
Regarding the characters you mention, here is the last we've heard of them:
"No longer with Charname, Viconia went on to found a cult dedicated to Shar in the city of Waterdeep. One of her followers betrayed her, however, prompting the slaughter of the whole tainted lot." Even that misadventure in Waterdeep is included in the game, although retconned as having been the will of Shar all along.
Minsc and Boo's Journal of Villainy mentions the following: "In recent years, Shar has directed her to work with elemental cults that worship the Elder Elemental Eye. Viconia has faithfully carried out her goddesses wishes, which has often put her into conflict with surface organizations such as the Lord’s Alliance or the Harpers. When not working with cults of elemental evil, Viconia travels the Underdark looking for fellow outcasts. She has put together a motely band including a pair of driders named Cackle and Backle and a deep spider that she has raised since she saved it from being eaten by its mother. She also rides an achaierai that lost the rest of its flock to a war band of dwarves." I have yet to see anything about Cackle and Backle, but I don't think we're losing much here.
As for Sarevok, it is said that after Throne of Bhaal, he "plunged into a deep despair. To numb his pain, he indulged in every vice imaginable, squandering his wealth and health on alcohol and drugs." This is not inconsistent with the ending of Throne of Bhaal: "He acted like a man that did not know himself, and all the stories agreed that Sarevok was a tortured soul balancing between life and death, never to achieve either. Eventually, he disappeared, said to have assaulted the Abyss itself or even taken his own life."
MaB-JoV continues: "While his divine heritage slowed his aging, it did not stop it entirely, and after decades of self-abuse he was eventually reduced to an old man begging in the streets of Baldur’s Gate. This was how his father—Bhaal, the reborn god of murder—found him. But even though it was dimmed, Bhaal recognized his own divine spark in the pathetic old man, and he sensed Sarevok still had potential. Bhaal recruited him to become the high priest of his fledgling clergy, giving Sarevok new purpose… and another chance to become an agent of death and destruction." So it is not surprising that he would be the figurehead of the temple of Bhaal, and I think it is more interesting to have his granddaughter being the antagonist at this level than him again. After all, that nihilistic version of Sarevok would not have been an interesting antagonist.
I think the problem is that those two characters had the opportunity for real growth, but that is not what happened in canon. Similarly, Zariel is the source of a lot of misery for some of the characters, which must be disappointing if you managed to redeem her in Descent of Avernus. But everything you hear about her in the game is consistent with the unredeemed version of the character.
As for the other lore you mention, the fragmented playthroughs I've seen don't let me confirm whether the inconsistencies I've noticed are justified (after all, those are not normal tadpoles, and there are lots of further interference with the normal ceromorphosis process), so I'd like to know more. But maybe it would be better in a spoiler thread. One thing I would really like to understand is why all the illithids I've seen seem to keep all five fingers... |
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BlackAce
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
358 Posts |
Posted - 30 Aug 2023 : 00:40:00
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I'm actually surprised by how strongly I disagree with some of the takes in this thread. Having just finished a run-through, I think Larian has done a brilliant job of capturing the character and vibe of the Realms. Certainly, anyone who has read Ed's body of work will find the tone very familiar. The lore is also fairly solid, at least as much as it can be given the upheavals of 4th and taking place a good 120 years after the 1360s-70s period older players like myself know so well. Some examples:
The Shadowheart story arc nails Sharran/Selunite lore to perfection. It's easily the best depiction of the Lady of Loss and her cult in the entire body of fiction, and I know my sourcebooks AND my novels so can firmly attest.
The Cerromorphosis lore is also on point.
Lae'zel drops some juicy Spelljammer references if you get to know her well (not easy.)
Even Sharess' Caress lives up(down?) to the rep of any canon 2e or 3e "Festhall."
The tale of Karsus' folly is retold accurately and well.
Is the city fully there? No, it's just The Steeps district and a small portion of Eastside.
My one quibble is a piece of lore involving the legend of Balduran that will most certainly subjectively divide old-school players, but it's a fair story choice, and a very interesting one.
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Edited by - BlackAce on 30 Aug 2023 00:43:26 |
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Seravin
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1279 Posts |
Posted - 24 Sep 2023 : 21:16:29
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I've now basically finished the game. It's a good game, but it doesn't feel like it's set in the Forgotten Realms. It's very generic Act 1-2 and they got nothing correct about Baldur's Gate the city in Act 3 aside from it's a port and has the Elfsong Tavern and Sorcerous Sundries. Otherwise? No.
Maybe I'm just too old school but all the zany Red Dragon flying Gith and Dragonborn and Tieflings and Mindflayer powers in PCs and it just felt completely out of place with the sort of 2nd-3rd edition feel of the realms. There is a LOT of focus on those characters, and you meet a lot of drow as well cause drow are kewl.
It's fun and a good RPG, but I don't feel like they got the Realms. The bits on Shar and Selune are probably the only things close. Unless the Realms is now about Tieflings and red dragon-riding Giths blasting spaceships and steampunk golems. |
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Seravin
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1279 Posts |
Posted - 24 Sep 2023 : 21:19:30
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| Also the city is no where near as large as Novigrad in Witcher 3. It's a fraction of the size because so much got cut from the final release. |
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HighOne
Learned Scribe
214 Posts |
Posted - 25 Sep 2023 : 03:55:23
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quote:
Originally posted by Seravin
I've now basically finished the game. It's a good game, but it doesn't feel like it's set in the Forgotten Realms. It's very generic Act 1-2 and they got nothing correct about Baldur's Gate the city in Act 3 aside from it's a port and has the Elfsong Tavern and Sorcerous Sundries. Otherwise? No.
Maybe I'm just too old school but all the zany Red Dragon flying Gith and Dragonborn and Tieflings and Mindflayer powers in PCs and it just felt completely out of place with the sort of 2nd-3rd edition feel of the realms. There is a LOT of focus on those characters, and you meet a lot of drow as well cause drow are kewl.
It's fun and a good RPG, but I don't feel like they got the Realms. The bits on Shar and Selune are probably the only things close. Unless the Realms is now about Tieflings and red dragon-riding Giths blasting spaceships and steampunk golems.
I had the same problem. The game's first location is a Mindflayer Nautiloid, one of the first NPCs you recruit is a Gith, and the first settlement you visit is populated by Tieflings. These are not things I typically associate with the Forgotten Realms or low-level adventures. Ultimately, the world felt too bizarre and alien for my tastes. |
Edited by - HighOne on 26 Sep 2023 15:37:32 |
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Seravin
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1279 Posts |
Posted - 25 Sep 2023 : 20:49:05
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| Thanks HighOne - so jarring to go from spaceship red dragon hells in the TUTORIAL to...mundanne village level 1 fighting goblins once the game goes. I guess this is what the game developers need to do today for the TikTok generation. But to me you build up to the crazy spelljamming hells and red dragons after starting slow and happy village life under threat from goblins in Act 1. Sigh. It did not feel like the Realms. |
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TomCosta
Forgotten Realms Designer
USA
969 Posts |
Posted - 25 Sep 2023 : 22:34:16
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| I think it feels like the Realms and those things that are different are explained. Tons of linkages to lore old (1E, 2E, 3E, and yes 4E) and new (5e). I'm surprised by all the little touches. If you gave up on the Realms after a certain edition, you could easily miss out on lore bits scattered throughout. For example, the tieflings are linked to 5E's Descent into Avernus. Weird, but linked to lore. |
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ElfBane
Learned Scribe
USA
283 Posts |
Posted - 26 Sep 2023 : 05:22:07
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| I like the game. But the start is a bit over-the-top. It is stretching beleif when a small group of L1 adventurers can outfight/outwit a mature mind-flayer and a cambion. The game should start you out at L3, IMO. |
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Zeromaru X
Great Reader
Colombia
2470 Posts |
Posted - 26 Sep 2023 : 07:24:29
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| I think the that the only problem here is that they never got to finish the High City (it seems it has many technical issues), and so we couldn't explore Baldur's Gate as promised... |
Instead of seeking change, you prefer a void, merciless abyss of a world... |
Edited by - Zeromaru X on 26 Sep 2023 16:47:32 |
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ElfBane
Learned Scribe
USA
283 Posts |
Posted - 26 Sep 2023 : 13:44:31
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[/quote]
In regards to returning characters, being treated badly by the writing, I am not necessarily referring to the ones Larian advertised heavily in the leadup to release (Minsc and Jaheria), but others that don't get the honor of being recruitable companions in BG III. Viconia and Sarevok specifically.
[/quote]
How many times do I have to KILL SAREVOK! Grrrr. |
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Athreeren
Learned Scribe
140 Posts |
Posted - 27 Sep 2023 : 14:46:45
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quote:
Originally posted by ElfBane
How many times do I have to KILL SAREVOK! Grrrr.
He was resurrected in Throne of Bhaal. And Murder in Baldur's Gate shows that human bhaalspawn are long-lived, so it makes sense he would still be around. In fact, according to Minsc and Boo's Journal of Villainy, upon his resurrection, Bhaal found his spawn an old beggar in the streets of Baldur's Gate, he revived his spark of divinity and made him his high priest. So in a game called Baldur's Gate 3 featuring prominently the cult of Bhaal in the city, Sarevok's presence was unavoidable (not so for the three shades with him though, which are pure fan service). But you don't have to kill him, you can even recruit him for the final battle if you're so inclined! |
Edited by - Athreeren on 27 Sep 2023 14:47:47 |
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Seravin
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1279 Posts |
Posted - 29 Sep 2023 : 17:01:49
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It really really really bothers me they took out the World Map as well. This was a great part of BG1 and BG2 that made me feel the game was in Ed's Forgotten Realms.
Now it's missing, the world just feels generic without context. WE get some of ACt 3 is in a small part of Baldur's Gate, but where are the other areas of the game.
This was originally in the game and they removed it for release. Why? WHY?
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TKU
Learned Scribe
USA
158 Posts |
Posted - 30 Sep 2023 : 01:54:13
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quote:
Originally posted by ElfBane
In regards to returning characters, being treated badly by the writing, I am not necessarily referring to the ones Larian advertised heavily in the leadup to release (Minsc and Jaheria), but others that don't get the honor of being recruitable companions in BG III. Viconia and Sarevok specifically.
[/quote]
How many times do I have to KILL SAREVOK! Grrrr.
[/quote]
Yeah, finding about those two made me stop playing the game, honestly.
The way they are treated by the writing compared to Jaheria (fairly faithful) and Minsc (pure fanservice) really made me uncomfortable. A problem I have come to realize when playing the game is that despite their stated interest in doing so, they really don't seem to think much of the section of their playerbase that is playing their game as an evil character. Weird disparities in content like how the fanservice surrounding those two characters versus Minsc and Jaheria really highlight that.
Honestly while there's clearly a lot of hard work and passion put into this game by Larian, I don't feel a lot of it comes from a place of great passion for the original saga, or the realms themselves, if I'm going to be perfectly honest. References to lore always end up being surface-level, and often contradict what's freely available on the wiki (which apparently they have used as a source for the game, which might help explain why it is often rather surface-level) so it often feels very 'familiar, but 'off'. There just wasn't a lot of effort put in to try and make it conform to the setting, if that makes sense.
It's also rather overly grandeoise with just about everything big sounding thrown into the plot as if to make it as epic as possible, but the result IMHO is that every aspect of its 'epic' plot never quite feels like it gets its just due. It's not really a game about the Mindflayers-in fact the mindflayer-related enemies you face are rather....unvaried if we are going to be perfetly honest. The Gityanki are part of the plot, in a big way too! But not the Githzerai. It looks like the drow and Duergar are going to be involved in the plot, but then they just sorta aren't. You got The Dead Three, Selune, Shar, and Mytra all vying for screentime in the plot. The Nine Hells have significant presence, but ultimately it all seems kinda...sideways to the main plot?
Restraint could have really helped them with the plot, it's very clear that they bit off more than they could chew and the messy plot and obvious rewrites and cut/unfinished stuff is testament to that.
The game was a bit of a letdown for me personally, tbh. |
Edited by - TKU on 30 Sep 2023 02:16:57 |
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Werthead
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
187 Posts |
Posted - 30 Sep 2023 : 14:57:57
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Yup, BG3 feels like the Realms to me, or at least it feels like 5E Realms made to work in a solid way. Like many, I vehemently disliked the Spellplague and ignored it and most of what followed. However, in talking to younger and newer Realms/D&D fans, it's become clear they they don't give a single flying toss about it: the Spellplague is part of the backstory, it's already been retconned via the Second Sundering as much as it is ever going to be, and for the people playing D&D/FR since 2014 (who comfortably outnumber those who played it before 2014, at this point likely several times over) it's just backstory, like the Fall of Netheril or the Dalelands War was for people starting out with 1E in 1987.
On that basis, I feel like both Baldur's Gate III and Honor Among Thieves do a good job of making the current-day 5E Forgotten Realms work as a coherent setting in its own right. The prevalence of otherworldly stuff is pretty much on point: the Spellplague and Second Sundering weakened the barriers between Toril and other worlds/planes, spelljammers have been regular visitors to Toril for millennia at this point, and tieflings have been increasingly common visitors to Toril since late 2E (recall they were in Baldur's Gate II as well). Githyanki have been regular villains in Realms stories going back to 2E and 3E (they play a role in Neverwinter Nights II, firmly set in the 3E era).
Obviously we know the real reason is that elves, dwarves and other generic fantasy stuff cannot be copyrighted, whilst the D&D-specific stuff like illithids, beholders, tieflings and githyanki can (although there's an interesting quirk with George R.R. Martin inventing the githyanki name and Charles Stross nicking it for the 1E Fiend Folio, so the name could be an interesting point of future contention), so WotC want to push those elements, like how Games Workshop went as far as destroying the entire Warhammer planet with its many generic elements and reincarnating it as the Age of Sigmar with brand-new and more-easily monetised factions and species names.
However, whilst the capitalist motivation for such changes is eyeball-rolling, as long as it is relatively well-motivated by the story and lore, I do not have a major problem with it (and beholders and illithids have been major Realms antagonists since the 1980s anyway, it's not like they've just shown up out of nowhere).
If you want BG3/Honor Among Thieves to feel like the much more medieval fantasy of 1E/2E, BG1/2 Forgotten Realms, sure, it's not going to scratch that itch and it's going to be disappointing. But they do, I feel, accurately depict the feeling of 5E magitek/proto-steampunk Forgotten Realms, and even make it work between than anything since the extremely ill-advised Spellplague in the first place. |
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Seravin
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1279 Posts |
Posted - 30 Sep 2023 : 21:38:15
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"Githyanki have been regular villains in Realms stories going back to 2E"
Say what? I'm pretty well versed in everything 2E Realms especially the 'stories' eg novels and I don't recall any mention of a Githyanki nevermind a regular villain in the novels or source books of 2E FRs.
But thank you for the explanaiton of why Tieflings and Gith and mindflayers are so prevelant, that makes sense that unlike elves and dwarves and halflings those are D&D specific creatures so may as well push them into the license.
The game is best however in Act 1 (after that awful introduction tutorial) when it is a fairly tropey but delightfully well done save the villagers from goblin raiders plot. |
Edited by - Seravin on 30 Sep 2023 21:39:12 |
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TKU
Learned Scribe
USA
158 Posts |
Posted - 30 Sep 2023 : 22:39:11
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I know Githyanki were minor reoccurring enemies in BG II at least (no connection to the events of BG III)
Act I is definitely the highlight IMHO. You are in the middle of nowhere fighting goblins so it's easy to focus on the mostly excellent character interactions and map design and the main plot shows a lot of interesting potential and with all the big name drops, mysteries etc to capture your interest. |
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Irennan
Great Reader
Italy
3805 Posts |
Posted - 01 Oct 2023 : 14:07:27
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This game is an example of why tropes and clichés can be put to good use--if your main focus and most of what you have to offer is the trope, then you're SOL. But if the trope is there to support the main aspect of your story, or if you have a twist on the trope that is key to your satory, then you're fine.
After all, cliochés are just things that commonly happen, which means you're bound to find them everywhere. People walking by putting one foot in front of the other is a cliché, yet it's not like having people walk like that in your story is bad. It's bad if that's the main thing your story has to offer.
I'm not done with the game yet (approaching the end of act II as of now), but so far my only criticism is how hilariously evil the Absolute thingy is. I mean, all that torture and crap could have been much subtler, they could have put more emphasis on the idea of togetherness as a facade.
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Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things. |
Edited by - Irennan on 01 Oct 2023 23:35:13 |
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Seravin
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1279 Posts |
Posted - 01 Oct 2023 : 21:21:52
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| Loved Act 1 and 2 Irennan - sadly the polish of those two acts isn't there in Act 3 but at least we're in a familiar part of the Realms then. Or at least, a multi-verse version of it... Hopefully future acts will fix Act 3 and clean up the bugs. |
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Irennan
Great Reader
Italy
3805 Posts |
Posted - 01 Oct 2023 : 23:41:04
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| That's a bummer, but I came to half-expect it when I realized just how many plot threads were left to conclude in act 3. Nothing against Larian, mind you: tying up all of those threads in a satisfying manner is a damn daunting task even for expert writers and game designers. On the upside, Larian has stated to be working on improving act 3, and given their record when it comes to respecting the products they put out, I feel unusually trusting. |
Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things. |
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Azar
Master of Realmslore
1308 Posts |
Posted - 02 Oct 2023 : 00:32:30
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| What's the point of exploring the city if you have to put up with the developer's crap (including their signature traits)? They should have made their own game. Baldur's Gate, this is not. |
Stand with anybody that stands right. Stand with him while he is right and part with him when he goes wrong.
Earth names in the Realms are more common than you may think. |
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Irennan
Great Reader
Italy
3805 Posts |
Posted - 02 Oct 2023 : 04:02:34
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| What are the annoying Larian traits (other than explosives being everywhere)? |
Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things. |
Edited by - Irennan on 02 Oct 2023 04:03:23 |
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TKU
Learned Scribe
USA
158 Posts |
Posted - 02 Oct 2023 : 13:50:50
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If I had to hazard a guess? The origin system is probably the most immediately noticeable one. A hallmark of their last game and people are somewhat divided on the merits of putting it in BG III. The main draw for games like this is usually making your own character, but with so much of the protagonist writing wrapped up in Origin characters, there's a good argument to be had that such effort would have been better spent on writing for the custom character or additional party members etc. This was a complaint in Divinity Original Sin 2 as well. In some ways they dialed it up quite a bit as well-the origins are all super special important people (chosen etc) except Lae'zel. Aside from Dark Urge, custom characters seem to have been almost an afterthought concession for multiplayer.
'Barrelmancy' was luckily pared down somewhat from Early Access, but it's not the only Larian trait showing up in gameplay. their love of special surfaces returns, rampant environmental clutter. (sooo many empty vases or 1gp collectibles littered everywhere) A lot of the concessions the game made to facilitate their particular brand of multiplayer make gameplay rather....janky to say the least. Stealth/pickpocketing mechanics are pretty much lifted right from DOS2.
Plotwise, similar problem that most of the good stuff is front loaded and the later acts are unfinished with obvious cut content and hastily patched together rewrites that just sorta coasts to the finish line. |
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Seravin
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1279 Posts |
Posted - 02 Oct 2023 : 17:55:30
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| Yeah the most common complaint about them is unfinished and not great final Acts after amazing starts |
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Irennan
Great Reader
Italy
3805 Posts |
Posted - 02 Oct 2023 : 20:13:47
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quote:
Originally posted by TKU
Plotwise, similar problem that most of the good stuff is front loaded and the later acts are unfinished with obvious cut content and hastily patched together rewrites that just sorta coasts to the finish line.
This isn't a Larian trait, this is just rushing unfinished stuff, and it's making me consider to wait a bit before entering act III.
I understand the "origin" trait, though. I actually like that you can play as fleshed out characters, but I agree that it shouldn't be at the expense of available choices to flesh out custom characters. |
Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things. |
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Topic |
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Explore the entire city of Baldur's Gate in BG3
