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Azar
Master of Realmslore
1309 Posts |
 Posted - 02 May 2023 : 01:41:11
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Greetings.
I am curious about the extent to which your take on The Forgotten Realms is populated/developed. There are folks who like a tightly packed Realms with an abundance of construction (perhaps comparable to our own world?) whereas others lean more towards almost exclusively frontier interactions and ruins explorations with no large population centers in the mix (they either flat-out do not exist or they are simply out of focus).
On a scale of one to ten, one being "1e Grey Box, possibly with subtractions to multiple regions" and ten being "Everything up until 5e with multiple additions.", what do you find most appealing and why?
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Stand with anybody that stands right. Stand with him while he is right and part with him when he goes wrong.
Earth names in the Realms are more common than you may think. |
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DoveArrow
Learned Scribe
105 Posts |
Posted - 04 May 2023 : 03:45:21
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quote:
Originally posted by Azar
Greetings.
I am curious about the extent to which your take on The Forgotten Realms is populated/developed. There are folks who like a tightly packed Realms with an abundance of construction (perhaps comparable to our own world?) whereas others lean more towards almost exclusively frontier interactions and ruins explorations with no large population centers in the mix (they either flat-out do not exist or they are simply out of focus).
I just look up the population numbers on the Forgotten Realms Wiki.
quote:
Originally posted by Azar
On a scale of one to ten, one being "1e Grey Box, possibly with subtractions to multiple regions" and ten being "Everything up until 5e with multiple additions.", what do you find most appealing and why?
Are you talking about population numbers or just publications in general? If it's the former, I guess I would say the Forgotten Realms Wiki. If it's the latter, I find the 3.5 and 4E campaign setting books the most helpful. I feel like they are the most comprehensive sources and best starting points for figuring out population numbers or... y'know... pretty much anything about the Realms. |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 04 May 2023 : 20:41:38
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I prefer to think of the Realms as populated somewhat like Canada.
There are some major cities with huge populations. They tend to sprawl and blur into each of their neighbours.
There are many smaller cities or towns with smaller population centers. They have all the basics but tend to lack many of the goods and services you'd find elsewhere.
There are countless scattered "villages" of a sort. A handful of families in a few farm-like homes, a general store, a gas station, maybe a church.
And the vast majority of the land outside these population centers is essentially unoccupied. Mostly because it has somewhat harsh hot and cold seasons. Not many roads. Not many buildings. You might bump into a hunter or hiker but it's basically an unpopulated wilderness.
Although these areas wouldn't be as unpopulated in the Realms. They'd be filled with orcs, goblins, giants, and all the rest. Indeed, the areas which do remain sparsely populated probably support a dragon or other dangerous predator. Or are simply hostile and unpleasant in other ways. |
[/Ayrik] |
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bloodtide_the_red
Learned Scribe
USA
302 Posts |
Posted - 05 May 2023 : 02:55:56
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I like the Realms very Sword and Sorcery. There are a couple of cities of "Somewhat near 14th century Earth", but most of the Realms are small towns and villages that are quite rural. Most of the Realms is quite savage and wild and untamed.
I set my games in the far off corners of the Realms. The PCs might start in Waterdeep, but much of the adventure is around the High Moor with few towns around...and the only one close is the Way Inn like five miles away.
I like my games very 'cut off' where the characters are put through a meat grinder, loosing hp, abilities, and equipment with no easy way for them to just "go back to town". And in most cases all the small towns don't have all that much, so characters can't buy thousands of gold in supplies. |
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Thuumhammer
Acolyte
Canada
19 Posts |
Posted - 05 May 2023 : 03:16:06
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My realms are a combination of 2e & 3e lore, focused on the Sword Coast. I like magical cities, so Waterdeep and Undermountain are the main focus, with frequent trips to the country side for political intrigue and exploration.
At some point I'd like to heavily homebrew my version of Thay, with large undercity labyrinths and plenty of political intrigue between Zulkirs. |
Currently living in a version of 1372DR that operates under 5e mechanics. Strange indeed! |
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PattPlays
Senior Scribe
469 Posts |
Posted - 12 May 2023 : 03:19:26
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quote:
Originally posted by Azar
Greetings.
I am curious about the extent to which your take on The Forgotten Realms is populated/developed. There are folks who like a tightly packed Realms with an abundance of construction (perhaps comparable to our own world?) whereas others lean more towards almost exclusively frontier interactions and ruins explorations with no large population centers in the mix (they either flat-out do not exist or they are simply out of focus).
On a scale of one to ten, one being "1e Grey Box, possibly with subtractions to multiple regions" and ten being "Everything up until 5e with multiple additions.", what do you find most appealing and why?
I am a sucker for depopulated landscapes (what my friends and players accurately describe as 'Post Apocalypses' which is accurate but not what draws my interest) and the Spellplague is perfect for that. By the year 1491DR the Sword Coast is booming with everything and more. The gods are back, spellcasting is reliable, and class levels are powerful. By 1491DR there has already been an attempted invasion by Tiamat that unites and strengthens many factions to a level of influence and reliable muster strength that Luruar would have only dreamed of- with other similar events happening in 5e published material but dated roughly before that year.
I don't play that year. I play 1487DR where the second sundering is shaking the planet something fierce, the spellplague lingers, vast stretches of land lay abandoned, whole settlements are in practical ruin leaving hundred-mile sections of road as unclaimed and potentially spellscarred landscapes. Magic is unreliable, though not for the fifth edition player characters playing in this ostensibly fourth edition environment. Aged NPCs have lived through multiple 14XXDR novel trilogies where 'The Weave gets Restored and Mystra grows in strength' to my knowledge. One involving 'El transferring power to Mystra's representation as a bear. Two whole attempts at making a new Weave were handed over to Mystra to bring her closer, and closer yet to some return in the next year, or the next year. So Wizards studying the Weave at any time across the middle of the century would see (in my storytelling) the fundamental constants of their spell equations changing every time Elminster sneezes in Mystra's direction. In comparison, Player Characters are a new generation that has grown up without traditional weave-based educations. And with how many 5e classes have some magic or another, it seems like the whole generation across all races has brought a high rate of sorcerors. The slightly humorous claim I make is that the whole of the younger casters are technically Wild Magic Sorcerors but compartmentalized and presented as a culturally understood "class".
Then there's recent history. The Orcs annihilate the surface-city of Sundabar. Neverwinter's streets still filled with cooled lava-flow. The soon-to-be-famous Emerald Enclave has just had its ruler made sane- but they've been killing nearly indiscriminately for years up to that point. The Zhentarim are claiming Loudwater from the shadows- but I believe that the Zhentilar Army is nearly extinct with the Shade still on the rampage against any military force in sight. Oh- yeah. The Shade. This is an age where Netheril is beautiful but has a freaking Enclave waging forever-war on everyone and Sembia has a darkness-hurricane over it for a good while! What a nightmare! This depopulated and structurally backwards Faerun (at least the North) is really fun to muck about in because we know in a few years these weak towns and fractured cities will be well because- well it will be 1491DR! That's the year of the SCAG book and it describes a positively shining setting where Halruan skyships are showing up and Lantanese merchants have fully established themselves on the sword coast ports again. So it isn't all that depressing to run games in the late Spellplague because I know anyone who lives a little longer is going to probably be just fine. I mean, the gods start talking to people again!
Isn't that nutty? In 1491 it's still canon that only the Chosen get to talk to the Gods- and for a few more years after that despite the Second Sundering bringing almost every god back to the fold! The gods return, but won't talk to anyone for two more years! Returned Netheril as a civilization will vanish when the city falls from the sky and detonates. However the land of Anauroch's north will still be lush for years as well! It's rough because this is mostly Forgotten Realms Wiki one-sentence notes at this point, but it's supposed to take the released life-stealers two or three years to return the land totally to a desert.
So yeah, the gods aren't real and there are no hundred-man spell dueling wizard parties in the field outside of town. If your town is even standing anymore- Loudwater hid itself inside a barricade on the south side of the river for most of this time (with a mostly absent High Lord at that) so how many more cities that didn't get anything written about them during 4th edition probably were similarly scaled back or outright abandoned like Zelbross village. That's my depopulated fantasy. It's almost not Faerun anymore! But of course, thanks to places like this forum I have a LOT of Faerun in this place hidden just under the irradiated topsoil.
You want to know what's considered an invention to anyone out in the Savage Frontier right now? Scaffolding. Or maybe it's better to say that nobody in the Savage Frontier has seen anyone craft and rig up scaffolding as effectively as one Player Character has for fifty+ isolated years.
We have a big reconstruction theme going right now at level 12. A Druid and the Artificer are shoring up cities with stone walls and fertile farms. It's fun to play out the kind of transition that will produce that 1491DR renaissance only it's not based on art or philosophy its based on empowering all those isolated peoples and fighting the nightmarish threats that the cities and factions are currently too inept to handle themselves. That's good stuff imo! |
:The world's greatest OOTA fan/critic: :"Powder kegs within powder kegs!": :Meta-Dimensional Cheese: :Why is the Wand of Orcus just back?: :We still don't know the nature of Souls and the Positive Energy Plane: :PC on profile, Aldritch Elpyptrat Maxinfield: :Helljumpers, Bungie.net: :Rock Hard Gladiator, RIP Fluidanim, Long Live Pluto: :IRC lives:
https://thisisstorytelling.wordpress.com
T_P_T |
Edited by - PattPlays on 12 May 2023 03:25:37 |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6666 Posts |
Posted - 14 May 2023 : 02:10:21
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Very. In my head.
-- George Krashos |
"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Azar
Master of Realmslore
1309 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jul 2023 : 11:50:40
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quote:
Originally posted by bloodtide_the_red
I like the Realms very Sword and Sorcery. There are a couple of cities of "Somewhat near 14th century Earth", but most of the Realms are small towns and villages that are quite rural. Most of the Realms is quite savage and wild and untamed.
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I like my games very 'cut off' where the characters are put through a meat grinder, loosing hp, abilities, and equipment with no easy way for them to just "go back to town". And in most cases all the small towns don't have all that much, so characters can't buy thousands of gold in supplies.
Your preference lies close to my own. Heroes typically hail from humble hamlets. The majority of exploration occurs in places where those comfortable (and sane!) folks back in civilization will never dare to tread. Proper resupplying is - in and of itself - an adventure; while traveling through far-flung locales, players will be fortunate to locate a neutral or friendly NPC with ample provisions. Furthermore, demihumans are uncommon; either you chance upon one of their enclaves or you are invited there by an outlier demihuman. The upside* is that any treasure, any sanctuary and any friendly face feels all the more precious.
As of late, I am of the belief that too much interconnectedness - big cities included - diminishes the immersion, as the players' characters have access to accompanying conveniences that detract from the experience. It is possible to have urban-oriented fantasy, but that's an entirely different approach. "Frontier fairy tales" is a fair description of the game that tickles my fancy.
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*The intended upside, that is  . |
Stand with anybody that stands right. Stand with him while he is right and part with him when he goes wrong.
Earth names in the Realms are more common than you may think. |
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BlackAce
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
358 Posts |
Posted - 30 Aug 2023 : 07:32:42
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I mix it up a lot. Generally, there are ink blots of civilization connected by busy and relatively safe trade routes, where the major threats tend to be bandits, cultists or angry locals, but step away from those routes by more than 3 days of travel by horse and you're into hard, wild country.
Civilization flows in and out on these frontiers like a tide. A few hardy settlers build a fortified farmstead. After a few years, it might grow to a small village with a general store and a smithy surrounded by a ditch and palisade. Eventually, after a decade or two, a small keep or wizard tower might go up. Then something bad happens or the fortunes of the place change and it dwindles to a ghost town with nothing but ivy-covered stones and Otyughs in the ditches to mark it ever existed. Maybe there's a stash in an old root cellar or maybe that's just a mimic... |
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Azar
Master of Realmslore
1309 Posts |
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BlackAce
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
358 Posts |
Posted - 02 Sep 2023 : 23:14:03
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quote:
Originally posted by Azar
I take it few individuals would bat an eye at ghosts in these ghost towns?
Oh, yeah. Unless there is a specific story tied to a location, most of my small ghost towns/ruined villages teem with vermin and undead encounters.
The local cleric saying, "Go clear the zombies/skeletons out of Redwell cemetery, so that I can re-sanctify the place." is a starter quest I've used a few times.
But it's also important to remember that the villages aren't always abandoned ones.
Maybe a pack of Leucrotta are slaughtering the flocks of Dawnmist, and Wilbur Wildcrook, the local bigwig, is desperate for someone to hunt them down.
Maybe the local miners in Beechgrove broke through to the Underdark and want it investigated.
Maybe a troll has dammed a river and the farms downstream are facing a drought.
Maybe a BBEG turned the sheriff into a Cursed when he was passing through, and it's all got too Iron Maiden cover for the locals. etc etc... |
Edited by - BlackAce on 03 Sep 2023 00:15:20 |
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Delnyn
Senior Scribe
USA
955 Posts |
Posted - 02 Sep 2023 : 23:50:02
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| The Realms would be largely points of light, to a lesser extent in Cormyr. I would apply connection along the Sword Coast from Neverwinter to Candlekeep as developed. Just not as much as Cormyr. Even within Cormyr, I see danger going a day's walk from the main roads. Not a day's ride, a day's WALK. Portals are risky as the Nine Hells, and those supposedly reliable portals are guarded to the Nth degree. Hence the need for mercenaries to guard caravan routes. |
Edited by - Delnyn on 02 Sep 2023 23:51:56 |
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Giant Snake
Seeker
80 Posts |
Posted - 04 Sep 2023 : 01:58:23
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Hey!
With writing a story here it seems to be that cities and a more high/late medieval aesthetic and development or population level is the norm. Actually harder to make compelling, because like most people I first started with the very sparsely populated Middle Earth. The appeal for the books here is that it is anything and everything, so I would sort of like something Im comfortable with but to have it existing in the same world as the more densely developed towns. |
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Azar
Master of Realmslore
1309 Posts |
Posted - 19 Sep 2023 : 08:02:00
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quote:
Originally posted by Giant Snake
Hey!
With writing a story here it seems to be that cities and a more high/late medieval aesthetic and development or population level is the norm. Actually harder to make compelling, because like most people I first started with the very sparsely populated Middle Earth. The appeal for the books here is that it is anything and everything, so I would sort of like something Im comfortable with but to have it existing in the same world as the more densely developed towns.
For a start, you can either ignore/remove the big cities or set the stage in distant lands away from any major population center; until the PCs gain access to Teleport (which assumes there is at least one mage among them), you don't have to deal with that particular conundrum.
quote:
Originally posted by BlackAce
Maybe a troll has dammed a river and the farms downstream are facing a drought.
That is one industrious green-skinned ugly  . |
Stand with anybody that stands right. Stand with him while he is right and part with him when he goes wrong.
Earth names in the Realms are more common than you may think. |
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Werthead
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
191 Posts |
Posted - 04 Oct 2023 : 23:06:52
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3E's Campaign Setting postulates a population of 70-80 million for the entire continent of Faerūn, which roughly matches Europe c. 1300...except Faerūn is comprehensively much more massive than Europe. So on an overall level, the continent would either be sparsely populated compared to Europe or there are absolutely massive tracts of it where nobody at all lives. That doesn't quite track with what we see of the big wastelands, Pelvuria, Anauroch and the Shaar, which seem to be have quite a few tribes and inhabitants within them. And it feels like the Spellplague should have at least contributed to a noticeable (if not massive) population drop, even with much of it undone by the Second Sundering.
The national population levels are likewise tiny, with the most populated nations being Calimshan and Mulhorand at ~6 million apiece, whilst France in 1300 had around 17 million people just by itself. |
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How developed are your Realms?
