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Thelonius
Senior Scribe
Spain
730 Posts |
 Posted - 18 May 2004 : 15:06:36
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Ok, let's talk about those members of the adventure that make it interesting, and i'm not talking about the fierce warriors, the wise magician and the attractive cleric. I'm talking about the enemies, those creatures that appears always in the worst moment, when youre weary of life and have no memorized powerful spells. Tell us whats the worst creature you've ever seen, or this one that you really hate, and your experiences whith them.
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"If you are to truly understand, then you will need the contrast, not adherence to a single ideal." - Kreia
"I THINK I JUST HAD ANOTHER NEAR-RINCEWIND EXPERIENCE"- Discworld's Death frustrated after Rincewind scapes his grasp... again.
"I am death, come for thee" - Nimbul, from Baldur's Gate I just before being badly spanked
Sapientia sola libertas est |
Edited by - Alaundo on 19 May 2004 15:59:41
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Purple Dragon Knight
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1796 Posts |
Posted - 18 May 2004 : 19:39:48
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Anything with Improved Grab... a grizzly or polar bear can be the bane of a mage, even at high level (i.e. that'll teach the mage to always wander around with a wand of something, instead of a cool dagger or quarterstaff...  ) |
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SoulLord
Seeker
Mexico
62 Posts |
Posted - 18 May 2004 : 20:39:49
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That's easy enemies that get away with no chance of catching them
be it fly,swim,dimension door, teleport etc..
I just hate it when the enemy gets away while all i can do is curse silently.
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Gerath Hoan
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
152 Posts |
Posted - 18 May 2004 : 21:16:18
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I hate the kind of villain that takes all the fun out of hunting him down to kill him...
This one time my party and i chased an evil wizard through some caverns and out onto the top of a mountain. From there the villain got a bit too overconfident and tried to run over a rope bridge... to cut a long story short he failed his reflex save and fell to his horrible death.
I felt like crying at the sound of all those excellent magic items getting smashed... we'd chased that guy for SO long too and he'd used lots of great items against us. My rogue was already figuring out how he was gonna use all of them.  |
Knight of the Order of the Keen Eye - Granted by Ed Greenwood, 30th January 2005 |
Edited by - Gerath Hoan on 18 May 2004 21:17:20 |
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Sachiel
Acolyte
Australia
17 Posts |
Posted - 19 May 2004 : 03:18:09
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The worst creature (note that I said creature, not enemy) I have ever encountered in my entire gaming career is the dreaded armageddon beast. These greater tanar'ri make even the nastiest 'paragon' balor look tame. Fortunately, there are only a few of them  .
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"Maybe all those people who think me a fool are onto something."
-- Danilo Thann, "Elfshadow" |
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Thelonius
Senior Scribe
Spain
730 Posts |
Posted - 19 May 2004 : 12:30:12
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| Ok, it's quite impressive no one of you have mentioned the dragons. I don't know what d'you think about the creatures called Illicids, but their are one of my most hated enemies, without of course forgetting the tanar'ris, the balors,the wizards drows, and the king of the enemies in d&d the dragons, have you ever fought against one? I remember a fight against a red dragon it was really really difficult, even my morph in Greater Werewolf couldn't save some of my party. But the gold i took from him allowed me to resurrect all of them and buy them some "interesting items". |
"If you are to truly understand, then you will need the contrast, not adherence to a single ideal." - Kreia
"I THINK I JUST HAD ANOTHER NEAR-RINCEWIND EXPERIENCE"- Discworld's Death frustrated after Rincewind scapes his grasp... again.
"I am death, come for thee" - Nimbul, from Baldur's Gate I just before being badly spanked
Sapientia sola libertas est |
Edited by - Thelonius on 19 May 2004 12:31:05 |
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Arivia
Great Reader
Canada
2965 Posts |
Posted - 19 May 2004 : 14:38:22
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| Your response, Glon, has reminded me of one of the more terrifying creatures I've encountered-a half-illithid rust dragon and it's spawn. The dragon cracked open, rended, and disintegrated characters' defenses, and then sucked out their brains. A mighty foe. |
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Thelonius
Senior Scribe
Spain
730 Posts |
Posted - 19 May 2004 : 15:07:40
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Arivia, in my travels trough the lands i've never heard about this creature, how did you defeated it? I've got many problems with the illicids and the ulitharids, so i wanna be ready when i find it. |
"If you are to truly understand, then you will need the contrast, not adherence to a single ideal." - Kreia
"I THINK I JUST HAD ANOTHER NEAR-RINCEWIND EXPERIENCE"- Discworld's Death frustrated after Rincewind scapes his grasp... again.
"I am death, come for thee" - Nimbul, from Baldur's Gate I just before being badly spanked
Sapientia sola libertas est |
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Lady Kazandra
Senior Scribe
Australia
921 Posts |
Posted - 19 May 2004 : 15:33:33
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quote:
Originally posted by Arivia
Your response, Glon, has reminded me of one of the more terrifying creatures I've encountered-a half-illithid rust dragon and it's spawn. The dragon cracked open, rended, and disintegrated characters' defenses, and then sucked out their brains. A mighty foe.
So let me get this straight... You encountered a strange creature of considerable size with tentacles around it's mouth and great draconic wings...
Doesn't this remind you of anything? 
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"Once upon a time the plural of 'wizard' was 'war'." -- The Last Continent, by Terry Pratchett |
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Thelonius
Senior Scribe
Spain
730 Posts |
Posted - 19 May 2004 : 15:42:54
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Actually... not. Sorry, maybe that i've spent to much time in my deep forest. |
"If you are to truly understand, then you will need the contrast, not adherence to a single ideal." - Kreia
"I THINK I JUST HAD ANOTHER NEAR-RINCEWIND EXPERIENCE"- Discworld's Death frustrated after Rincewind scapes his grasp... again.
"I am death, come for thee" - Nimbul, from Baldur's Gate I just before being badly spanked
Sapientia sola libertas est |
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Lady Kazandra
Senior Scribe
Australia
921 Posts |
Posted - 19 May 2004 : 15:48:33
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Actually, I was talking to Arivia  .
I wouldn't apologise for spending time in Spanish forests though. I've been to Spain, and the woodland regions in that country are quite spectacular . . .  . So, if anyone else has experienced these natural wonders, they'll understand completely .
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"Once upon a time the plural of 'wizard' was 'war'." -- The Last Continent, by Terry Pratchett |
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Thelonius
Senior Scribe
Spain
730 Posts |
Posted - 19 May 2004 : 16:37:15
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| You speak wisely Lady Kazandra. The forest are one of our most valuable resources here in Spain. |
"If you are to truly understand, then you will need the contrast, not adherence to a single ideal." - Kreia
"I THINK I JUST HAD ANOTHER NEAR-RINCEWIND EXPERIENCE"- Discworld's Death frustrated after Rincewind scapes his grasp... again.
"I am death, come for thee" - Nimbul, from Baldur's Gate I just before being badly spanked
Sapientia sola libertas est |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 19 May 2004 : 17:15:50
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quote:
Originally posted by Lady Kazandra
quote:
Originally posted by Arivia
Your response, Glon, has reminded me of one of the more terrifying creatures I've encountered-a half-illithid rust dragon and it's spawn. The dragon cracked open, rended, and disintegrated characters' defenses, and then sucked out their brains. A mighty foe.
So let me get this straight... You encountered a strange creature of considerable size with tentacles around it's mouth and great draconic wings...
Doesn't this remind you of anything?
A lawyer?  
Actually, it does sound Cthulhu-esque. I didn't catch that before. |
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Sarelle
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
508 Posts |
Posted - 19 May 2004 : 17:32:34
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Lady Kazandra
[quote]Originally posted by Arivia
Doesn't this remind you of anything?
A lawyer?
Actually, it does sound Cthulhu-esque. I didn't catch that before.
LOL! rofl |
Chair of the The Rightful Return of Monster Deities to FR Society (RRMDFRS)
My character, drawn by Liodain: Sarelle / Sarelle (smaller) |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 20 May 2004 : 11:02:29
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quote:
Originally posted by Lady Kazandra
quote:
Originally posted by Arivia
Your response, Glon, has reminded me of one of the more terrifying creatures I've encountered-a half-illithid rust dragon and it's spawn. The dragon cracked open, rended, and disintegrated characters' defenses, and then sucked out their brains. A mighty foe.
So let me get this straight... You encountered a strange creature of considerable size with tentacles around it's mouth and great draconic wings...
Doesn't this remind you of anything?
You never told me you were a Lovecraft devotee...
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Arivia
Great Reader
Canada
2965 Posts |
Posted - 20 May 2004 : 14:32:56
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I did ask afterwards, actually-I was told that was part of the inspiration, in addition to the fact that the DM thought the two would make an interesting combination, stats-wise-He was right.
Ah, Glon, the plan went along the lines of "have half the party fall under the dragon's attacks while wildly trying to slay it by spell"-it was a hasty one, and one that didn't work too well in terms of party mortality. You'll likely not face one, anyway. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 20 May 2004 : 14:40:31
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Actually Arivia, is there any chance you can acquire the stats for this creature? I'd really like to see the work-up for it. I have stats for a Cthulhu-type creature, but I like to read other DM's interpretations as well.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Arivia
Great Reader
Canada
2965 Posts |
Posted - 20 May 2004 : 14:44:36
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
Actually Arivia, is there any chance you can acquire the stats for this creature? I'd really like to see the work-up for it. I have stats for a Cthulhu-type creature, but I like to read other DM's interpretations as well.
I can get something fairly close. I know the DM in question doesn't have the notes anymore, but I do remember enough to write them up myself. Yet another thing to do...I believe my pile is approaching yours, Sage... |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 20 May 2004 : 15:20:21
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Really...?
I have to use a teleport spell just to exit and enter my room because the multitude piles of work still to be done stand like the silent stone Pillars of Argoth...
What do you use?
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Fireheart
Learned Scribe
USA
109 Posts |
Posted - 21 May 2004 : 21:58:00
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quote:
Originally posted by Gion
Tell us whats the worst creature you've ever seen, or this one that you really hate, and your experiences whith them.
Behirs..I hate Behirs. Well, I hate Behirs that get close to you. (Ranged weapons good for Behirs...swords not so much.) The swallow whole and acid damage is a tough thing to fight, even at the appropriate levels.
2 Behirs nearly wiped out out our party of 4 (or 5) level 6-8 characters. It was a challange.
~Fireheart |
I believe in what I see/I believe in what I hear/I believe that what I'm feeling/Changes how the world appears
-Rush "Totem" |
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Arivia
Great Reader
Canada
2965 Posts |
Posted - 21 May 2004 : 23:53:03
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
Really...?
I have to use a teleport spell just to exit and enter my room because the multitude piles of work still to be done stand like the silent stone Pillars of Argoth...
What do you use?
Flight. There's a tiny crawlspace at the top of the pile of desks and chairs-that works for me. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 22 May 2004 : 06:36:38
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I have a particularly nasty version of a 'Paragon' Balor that I'd like to post, but I think I'll ask for Alaundo's permission first.
Do I have the okay for this Alaundo?
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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The Cardinal
Senior Scribe
Canada
647 Posts |
Posted - 22 May 2004 : 06:45:40
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| The Bane of our existence is anything that poisons... Poison daggers, posion arrows.. poison bites... Poison claws... Undercooked food... We HATE poison.. useful tool yes but not when used against our chars... Poison=Death... why? Several reasons... some from personal experience and the other is : our characters follow the thought that "that which does not kill us makes us stronger"... and then we usually die of poison... Disease O.K... only hate poison... and Bunnies... Vicious animals those... |
It has to be Certain, the Gods Hate Me. For whatever irrevokable Fate, I have been made the walking Joke. Either that, or Beshaba is overlyfond Of Me.
-Unknown |
Edited by - The Cardinal on 22 May 2004 06:49:59 |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 22 May 2004 : 06:59:37
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I'd like to add to that list, if I may Cardinal...?
As well as bunnies, I'd also like to mentioned Giff. Bunnies and Giff, the true horrors of the multiverse...
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Alaundo
Head Moderator
United Kingdom
5695 Posts |
Posted - 22 May 2004 : 10:13:37
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
I have a particularly nasty version of a 'Paragon' Balor that I'd like to post, but I think I'll ask for Alaundo's permission first.
Do I have the okay for this Alaundo?
Well met
Indeed, Sage. Let's see your pennings |
Alaundo
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 22 May 2004 : 10:31:40
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Thank you Alaundo .
Now, before I present the creature, please bear in mind that it is not yet fully complete. It's a creation for a one-shot adventure that I'm designing for some characters who are about to undertake their first planar adventure (even though they are 25+ level PCs). It uses the standard Balor stats from the SRD, and the 'Paragon' template from the ELHB.
Paragon Balor (Tanar'ri)
Large Outsider (Chaotic, Evil)
13d8+156 plus 156 (416 hp)
Initiative: (+9 Dex, +4 Improved Initiative)
Speed: 120 ft, fly 270 ft (good)
AC: 62 (-1 size, +9 Dex, +12 luck, +12 insight, +20 natural)
Attacks: +1 vorpal greatsword +51/+46/+41, whip +50 melee; or two slams +52 melee
Damage: +1 vorpal greatsword 2d6+36, whip 1d4+27 and entangle; or slam 1d6+35 and fear
Face/Reach: 5 ft by 5 ft/ 10 ft
Special Attacks: Spell-like abilities, fear, entangle, body flames, summon tanar'ri
Special Qualities: Tanar'ri qualities, Damage Reduction 20/+6, SR 43, fast healing 20, death throes
Saves: Fort+29, Ref+26, Will+30
Abilities: Str 40, Dex 28, Con 34, Int 35, Wis 35, Cha 31
Skills: Bluff +35, Concentration +37, Diplomacy +34, Hide +31, Knowledge (any) +30, Listen +45, Move Silently +29, Scry +38, Search +37, Sense Motive +37
CR: 33
Treasure: Standard coins, double goods, plus whip; standard items plus +1 vorpal greatsword
Alignment: Always chaotic evil
Spell-like abilities: At will- blasphemy, deeper darkness, desecrate, detect good, detect law, fear, greater dispelling, pyrotechnics, read magic, suggestion, symbol (any), telekinesis, teleport w/out error (self plus 50 lbs objects only), tongues (self only), unhallow, unholy aura, unholy blight, and wall of fire; 3/day-haste; 1/day- fire storm and implosion- as a 35th level sorcerer. (Save DC 20+ spell level)
Fear (Su): A creature hit by a paragon balor's slam attack must succeed at a Will save (DC 39) or flee in terror for 1d6 rounds.
Body Flames (Su): A paragon balor can wreathe its body in roaring flames as a free action. The balor suffers no harm, but anyone grappling with it takes 4d6+13 points of fire damage each round.
Detect Magic (Su): A paragon balor continuously detects magic as the spell cast by a 35th level sorcerer.
See Invisibility (Su): A paragon balor continuously sees invisibility as the spell cast by a 35th level sorcerer.
Death Throes (Ex): When killed, a paragon balor explodes in a flash of light that deals 50 points of damage to everything within 100 feet (Reflex half DC 28)
All other special abilities are as a standard balor.
Now, it would probably be wielding a sword more formidible than the traditional +1 vorpal and possibly an improved whip as well... Also, being not particularly fond of working with Epic material in the first place, I have absolutely no clue when and how it qualifies for Epic feats. The Paragon mind flayer given as example would seem to me to not be eligible for any beyond the two bonus feats (since its hit dice, unlike its hit points, have not increased), and yet it has five of them- it's not that the additional hit points qualify as hit dice for feats, or else a paragon would get additional skill points from its boosted intelligence, which the example does not. (It should have them anyway, technically, just like an "elite" specimen of a species does if it happens to have higher intelligence than average, but it still doesn't... seems like an error to me....)
Note that some paragon abilities are omitted- a balor's natural energy resistances are greater than that granted by the template- additionally, See Invisibility and Greater Dispelling 3/day are redundant with the standard balor's spell-likes ("continuous" and "at will", respectively).
More to come...
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Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Arivia
Great Reader
Canada
2965 Posts |
Posted - 22 May 2004 : 14:06:19
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| Good question, Sage-and the answer is an odd one. Strictly according to the rules, the epic prerequisite for feats for NPCs goes like this: 21 or more HD. However, Wizards has not used this when creating creatures-they tend to use CR of 21 or more as a prerequisite-and they have good reason to. There's no denying it-there's a large power jump at level 21. Why? Epic feats. The PCs don't have access to epic spells or epic magic items yet, but they do have access to epic feats, which will immediately make them much tougher. So the opponents must receive the same power increase-so Wizards deliberately broke the rules, but didn't tell anyone. My best guess is that a monster can take one epic feat at CR 21, and an additional feat for every increase in CR of 2 beyond that-so a CR 21 creature can take 1 epic feat, while a CR 23 creature can take 2 epic feats. However, this does not grant them bonus feats in any quantity-it's a limit on how many epic feats they can have, based upon non-class HD. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
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Arivia
Great Reader
Canada
2965 Posts |
Posted - 22 May 2004 : 16:26:32
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That's why it was so formidable......said rust dragon/illithid was a customized bloodscaled fury......So, short stat line looks like this:
Oolvulnath(CE great wyrm half-illithid rust dragon bloodscaled fury 12)
There's more to it then that-I've received what little notes still exist, so the complete stat list should appear soon...still, |
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Sarelle
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
508 Posts |
Posted - 22 May 2004 : 16:31:56
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See I would think you are right about acqisition of Epic feats being allowed by creatures of CR 21+ - they give another example in the Fiend Folio when they give a CR 21/18 HD demon an epic feat, but I would still think that epic feats are 'purchased' by no. of HD.
So take the paragon balor - he's CR 33, but I don't think he gets any extra (epic) feats until you advance him to 15 HD. When he's at 15 HD, cos he is over 21 CR he can get Epic feats (or another normal feat). The way feats are 'purchased' is layed out in the Epic section of the DMG 3.5, and it hasn't changed (i.e. 1 feat at 21 HD, 24, 27, 30 blah, blah!). That is how I would work it. |
Chair of the The Rightful Return of Monster Deities to FR Society (RRMDFRS)
My character, drawn by Liodain: Sarelle / Sarelle (smaller) |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
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Enemies and minions
