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Mankyle
Acolyte
Spain
42 Posts |
 Posted - 12 Aug 2022 : 13:28:34
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I have just finished Glacier's Edge and I have found it mildly entertaining. This and starlight's enclave are just typical Drizt's books...
What I have found quite amusing is Salvatore's use of direct italian words in these two late books.(I'm spanish but due to job issues I understand italian quite well)
There are words in aevendrow that are just italian words or just mixes of italian words
the two that come inmediately to mind are biancorso (biancorso quarter in Callidae) and the sport they play in Starlight enclave, the cazzcalcio
Biancorso comes from bianco orso.... orso bianco in italian means "white bear"
and cazzcalcio.... 
calcio means soccer in italian (european football) and cazzo.... is the coloquial italian word for penis (cock in english)
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Edited by - Mankyle on 12 Aug 2022 13:33:35 |
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TKU
Learned Scribe
USA
158 Posts |
Posted - 12 Aug 2022 : 15:02:18
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RAS's drow are pretty well known for their distinct and alien vocabulary. It seems odd to me that he would pivot in the last few books of an almost 40-book long saga.
As for the character....inconsistencies Snowy mentioned in their review, I was looking through some old Salvatore posts the other day and found this quote.
"A general outline and then let the story take me where it will. I don't know if I could have done this in the early days, but at this point, it's second nature. And when one of my characters is acting out of character, instead of redoing it, I try to figure out why. It's a lot of fun, honestly."
From what I gather Salvatore keeps his output high like he does by being a sort of 'just write' author. He value's confidence and productivity in one's writing...and it works. He doesn't seem to suffer from writer's block like many other authors. But I think his loose writing style has it's rather evident drawbacks in long series like this. I have long wondered why his focus seems to meander around from book to book, the inconsistencies. I suspect he thinks of or encounters ideas as he writes that he thinks would be shocking or neat, w/e and just runs with them. Almost 'stream of consciousness' writing with a little novelty-chasing mixed in. When the novelty wears off or something more interesting to him comes up, he drops it and moves on. But when he's running with an idea, it becomes the focus and other things sort of bend around it.
Don't know if that makes sense, but I'm trying to articulate some of the traits I feel like I have observed (and generally come to dislike) in his writing over the years that (I feel) explain some of the peculiarities of the saga as it has advanced. |
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Irennan
Great Reader
Italy
3806 Posts |
Posted - 12 Aug 2022 : 16:31:00
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quote:
Originally posted by TKU
"A general outline and then let the story take me where it will. I don't know if I could have done this in the early days, but at this point, it's second nature. And when one of my characters is acting out of character, instead of redoing it, I try to figure out why. It's a lot of fun, honestly."
That explains a lot. It's a surefire way to pollute your stuff with shitty characterization and inconsistencies. Also, to deprive it of a cohesive theme. In storytelling there's no difference between plot and characters. You don't create them separatedly, then try to justify inconsistencies afterwards.
The character shapes the story, and the external events of the story in turn shape the character, but in order to achieve that effect you have to put the characacter, their stakes&goal, their fatal flaw/survival system (and what it represents and what it's protecting the character from) at the center.
Stories must be personal: everything is about the character and their "dramatic choices" in relations to events&ojectives that are important to them and become important to us through the character's efforts, suffering, and choices. The fatal flaw (and its relationship with the stakes and the thematic viewpoint), the character's values, and the way those generate every action, is the main way to make a story personal.
The fatal flaw (and the way it will change/devolve or be overcome) can be considered as the theme of a transformation arc condensed into the character. It leads the character to experience their stakes in a "wrong" way (according to the worldview expressed by the story), to have goals and M.O. that don't reflect (or don't fully reflect) what they actually need. And as they act to reach their goal, the fatal flaw becomes one of the most important factors that brings the character to a given scene through their flawed choices, and causes the conflict in it (which in turn leads to failure/setbacks/pyrrhic victories, and therefore to the conflict in the following scenes).
You have to accurately choose the scenes that threaten the characer's stakes in a way that stems from (and challenges) their flawed survival system (and the connected thematic viewpoint to the story). And since the survival system is what informs the most important actions of a character, the scenes must be a a consequence of the character's agency, not rained on the character.
It also gives a direction to the character's transformation (and as a side note, the character has to be capable of changing in the direction of the thematic viewpoint, otherwise you break the character-story relationship and need to choose a different character).
We care about stories because of things like this--the effect stuff has on people, how they react to iot to get what they want, how they are forced to transform, etc... Not because there's some nice plot that has the characters move like gears. It's a generative method. You can't have the character act like whatever you want because you need that for your plot, and then slap a justification on it.
There are further reasons why going with the flow and justifying OOC actions later leads to bad stories. For example, following a character as it chases their goals/purpose is one of the main factors that keeps the human brain engaged. The brain loves strong goals, the pursuit of a goal that has meaning to us triggers some of the biggest neural rewards, and we sort of experience in stories that help us place ourselves in the shoes of a characer. Once again, this means that the story must be a consequence of a character going after their goal, it must inform each scene and each action. It can't be an afterthought.
TL; DR: one of the key requisties of a good story is that it must be personal, and you achieve that through a variety of tools, the fatal flaw being the most important. Swapping protagonists changes the story dramatically, because of all I mentioned before. You can't force a plot on the character, and then if they act OOC just slap some artifical justification as a bandaid fix on it. The character's agency/goals, through the fatal flaw, is what generates the scenes and their conflict, then the scenes set the character back due the fatal flaw, causing them to change (according to or against the thematic viepoint, depending on the kind of arc you want) and, in turn, act on the story and shape it as they keep chasing their goal. |
Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things. |
Edited by - Irennan on 12 Aug 2022 16:33:37 |
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Charles Phipps
Master of Realmslore
1425 Posts |
Posted - 12 Aug 2022 : 19:06:59
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So, speaking as a religious person, one who really liked Drizzt's relationship with Mielikki, I should stop the series now.
It just will insult me now? |
My Blog: http://unitedfederationofcharles.blogspot.com/
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sno4wy
Senior Scribe
USA
466 Posts |
Posted - 12 Aug 2022 : 19:26:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Charles Phipps
So, speaking as a religious person, one who really liked Drizzt's relationship with Mielikki, I should stop the series now.
It just will insult me now?
I guess it depends on how you interpret it. To me, it read like some serious bashing of people who are religious, so much so that it's hard to imagine it not be taken that way. Even if one looked at it as the religion specific to Lolth, there's still commentary by the narrator about people of faith in general. |
Edited by - sno4wy on 12 Aug 2022 19:26:59 |
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Irennan
Great Reader
Italy
3806 Posts |
Posted - 12 Aug 2022 : 21:51:54
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quote:
Originally posted by Mankyle
I have just finished Glacier's Edge and I have found it mildly entertaining. This and starlight's enclave are just typical Drizt's books...
What I have found quite amusing is Salvatore's use of direct italian words in these two late books.(I'm spanish but due to job issues I understand italian quite well)
There are words in aevendrow that are just italian words or just mixes of italian words
the two that come inmediately to mind are biancorso (biancorso quarter in Callidae) and the sport they play in Starlight enclave, the cazzcalcio
Biancorso comes from bianco orso.... orso bianco in italian means "white bear"
and cazzcalcio....
calcio means soccer in italian (european football) and cazzo.... is the coloquial italian word for penis (cock in english)
Biancorso can mean "white avenue" if you read it as "bianco corso" with the "co" being shared. But cazzcalcio sounds like some dull and juvenile joke tbh. |
Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things. |
Edited by - Irennan on 12 Aug 2022 21:52:27 |
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CorellonsDevout
Great Reader
USA
2708 Posts |
Posted - 13 Aug 2022 : 01:52:42
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quote:
Originally posted by Charles Phipps
So, speaking as a religious person, one who really liked Drizzt's relationship with Mielikki, I should stop the series now.
It just will insult me now?
It's kind of been that way for a while, he's just getting more obvious about it. It's one of the reasons I stopped reading them (haven't read Starlight Enclave or Glacier's Edge), and I am not very religious. There was an interview I saw with him shortly after Relentless was released that heavily implied he was against the Eilistraeens because they followed Eilistraee (ie, a goddesss). He loves telling the story about the biblical story of Jericho "broke him". Basically, he's a bitter ex=Catholic projecting his views into a fictional setting, where religion=bad.
While Lolth is definitely an evil deity, it feels like he often uses her and her followers to represent religion as a whole. She was referred to an "infection". But even as far back as Cleric Quintet, there was a misrepresentation of the Ilmatarans. Salvatore presented all of them as the extremists who whip themselves, and the dwarves make fun of them. Drizzt himself has said that Mielikki is "what is in his heart", but when Catti-brie supposedly gets a decree from Mielikki to kill all goblins (which is OOC for Mielikki), rather than questioning it, Drizzt turns away from Mielikki and acts as the "moral compass" (aka non-theist) for Catti-brie.
There are many instances in the books that indicate RAS hating on *all* the gods, good and bad, and they just get more obvious as the series goes on. He's so bitter he even hates on fictional deities. |
Sweet water and light laughter |
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sno4wy
Senior Scribe
USA
466 Posts |
Posted - 13 Aug 2022 : 03:50:35
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| He's a total hypocrite though. I can't help but wonder if all of that is just him posturing, because the entire premise of Entreri's redemption is a super transparent rip off of the concept that if you don't do certain things you're going to hell. This, in a world where there isn't that binary concept, not to mention a whole slew of other things. |
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Irennan
Great Reader
Italy
3806 Posts |
Posted - 13 Aug 2022 : 04:20:56
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quote:
Originally posted by sno4wy
He's a total hypocrite though. I can't help but wonder if all of that is just him posturing, because the entire premise of Entreri's redemption is a super transparent rip off of the concept that if you don't do certain things you're going to hell. This, in a world where there isn't that binary concept, not to mention a whole slew of other things.
IMO, he might come back to that in the future, make Entreri go through some breakdown related to the experience with the demon thingy, and claim that he had planned that all along to show how religion and believing in hell can hurt people. Just like he has claimed that he had planned the different drow civilization at the very beginning (even though he obviously hadn't). And despite having now said that he doesn't really plan that far ahead. |
Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things. |
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sno4wy
Senior Scribe
USA
466 Posts |
Posted - 13 Aug 2022 : 05:31:14
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quote:
Originally posted by Irennan
IMO, he might come back to that in the future, make Entreri go through some breakdown related to the experience with the demon thingy, and claim that he had planned that all along to show how religion and believing in hell can hurt people. Just like he has claimed that he had planned the different drow civilization at the very beginning (even though he obviously hadn't). And despite having now said that he doesn't really plan that far ahead.
That would be super poor storytelling but honestly, I'd be glad if he did it, because that entire cocoon thing is among the most stupid and contrived BS I've ever encountered. |
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Irennan
Great Reader
Italy
3806 Posts |
Posted - 13 Aug 2022 : 06:06:25
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| I mean, it wouldn't be surprising. Especially considering what he recently admitted. |
Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things. |
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Erikor
Seeker
Norway
60 Posts |
Posted - 17 Aug 2022 : 02:18:13
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quote:
Originally posted by jordanz
quote:
Originally posted by Erikor
Did anyone pre-order the new book? I did, I've read every other Drizzt book so I feel like I can't stop now. About a month to go.
2 days to go from now....Please let us know what you think of it once you've read it.
I've read it but I don't think I can say anything that hasn't already been said here. The story wasn't bad but Drizzt beats two dragons in a fist fight and stands his ground for a while against a demigod. It's just too much. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 17 Aug 2022 : 02:49:16
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quote:
Originally posted by Erikor
I've read it but I don't think I can say anything that hasn't already been said here. The story wasn't bad but Drizzt beats two dragons in a fist fight and stands his ground for a while against a demigod. It's just too much.
Please tell me that this is an over-simplification or an exaggeration. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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The Red Walker
Great Reader
USA
3567 Posts |
Posted - 17 Aug 2022 : 03:11:36
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Well I loved it. Also, I did not read any of his self help journal what’s its as I have not for all 30 whatever Drizzt books…. Skipped all the scenes in menzo that didn’t involve an interesting character…. Fast forwarded through the fight scenes…. Avoided the godlike power of the green bearded Druid, although I’d see a major surprise for him…. HE GOT HIS ARM BACK!!! It’s a festivus MIRACLE! But only after he “dies” but shows back up either riding on or In A giant block of ice?
That’s enough spoilers for now |
A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka
"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -
John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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Edited by - The Red Walker on 17 Aug 2022 03:20:03 |
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sno4wy
Senior Scribe
USA
466 Posts |
Posted - 17 Aug 2022 : 03:18:26
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Erikor
I've read it but I don't think I can say anything that hasn't already been said here. The story wasn't bad but Drizzt beats two dragons in a fist fight and stands his ground for a while against a demigod. It's just too much.
Please tell me that this is an over-simplification or an exaggeration.
It's not. What Erikor didn't mention is also that Drizzt and Kane have a sparring match to see how they compare and they come out of it equally hurt. Kane also makes Drizzt promise not to challenge the current frontrunner for Grandmaster of Flowers.
This is just so incredibly dumb. The one saving grace to Drizzt's Mary Sueness for me was always that at least he's not as strong as the Grandmaster of Flowers, who is one of the few fighter-types that can stand a chance against the most powerful individuals in the Realms, all of whom are magic-types. I knew that with the way RAS is, Drizzt would inevitably get there, but he got there within the span of what, 5 books and less than 5 in universe years? |
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TheIriaeban
Master of Realmslore
USA
1289 Posts |
Posted - 17 Aug 2022 : 03:55:38
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Anyone happen to have Kane's stats? I wrote a tool that you can plug in the stats of 2 monks and it will go through a round by round fight to see who is the winner. I have Drizzt's from Hall of Heroes. I would just need a 2e set for Kane and then we could see how an impartially run fight would turn out.
Edit: Oh, almost forgot. Since this is to determine who gets that slot in the hierarchy, they both have to be the same level so what level would you say they are? |
"Iriaebor is a fine city. So what if you can have violence between merchant groups break out at any moment. Not every city can offer dinner AND a show."
My FR writeups - http://www.mediafire.com/folder/um3liz6tqsf5n/Documents
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Edited by - TheIriaeban on 17 Aug 2022 03:57:40 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 17 Aug 2022 : 04:55:38
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quote:
Originally posted by TheIriaeban
Anyone happen to have Kane's stats? I wrote a tool that you can plug in the stats of 2 monks and it will go through a round by round fight to see who is the winner. I have Drizzt's from Hall of Heroes. I would just need a 2e set for Kane and then we could see how an impartially run fight would turn out.
FR9 The Bloodstone Lands says Kane is a 17th level monk with 17 Dexterity. He's got about a third of a page, but does not have a full stat block.
The Bloodstone modules, though, give a more complete set of stats -- but they're 1E stats.
From page 46 of The Mines of Bloodstone (and in the remaining two modules; his stats in the first module are abbreviated)... This is slightly trimmed; I'm assuming you don't need 1E stuff like his Comeliness score. The book notes that he is a pre-Oriental Adventures monk, using the 1E PHB rules.
16th-level Human Monk (Master of Spring)
Lawful Good
Strength 15
Intelligence 15
Wisdom 15
Dexterity 17
Constitution 14
Charisma 8
Armor Class -2
Movement Rate 30
Hit Points 40
Proficiencies: Weapon: bo stick, caltrop, crossbow, dagger, jo stick, lasso, sap, quarterstaff, halberd;
Nonweapon: animal trainer (WIS on d20), animal noise (WIS - 1), blind-fighting, direction sense (WIS + 1), endurance, rope use (triple proficiency, DEX +4)
Magical Items: carpet of flying (smallest size) |
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TheIriaeban
Master of Realmslore
USA
1289 Posts |
Posted - 17 Aug 2022 : 14:54:01
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Thank you. Here are the results:
Drizzt came out strong on this one. Kane barely did any damage to him.
The winner of the trial by combat in round 3 is Drizzt
This one was a real slugfest with the two of them. Towards the end they were blocking each others attacks but Kane was able to get one through and take out Drizzt.
The winner of the trial by combat in round 7 is Kane
The last one was really just a replay of the first one.
The winner of the trial by combat in round 3 is Drizzt
Drizzt has the advantage because he is smarter and wiser than Kane so he is tactically better off in a fight. He also has more hit points. The only thing that could even them out is if Kane is significantly luckier than Drizzt.
Edit: Looking at Kane's stats and seeing that he made it to level 16, he would have had to have been luckier than most because, for a monk, his stats are really just the baseline ones so that he qualifies to be one. So, adjusting for luck, here are the results:
The winner of the trial by combat in round 13 is Kane
he winner of the trial by combat in round 3 is Kane
The winner of the trial by combat in round 8 is Kane
This assumes that Drizzt's luck is just average. |
"Iriaebor is a fine city. So what if you can have violence between merchant groups break out at any moment. Not every city can offer dinner AND a show."
My FR writeups - http://www.mediafire.com/folder/um3liz6tqsf5n/Documents
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Edited by - TheIriaeban on 17 Aug 2022 15:15:16 |
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The Red Walker
Great Reader
USA
3567 Posts |
Posted - 17 Aug 2022 : 17:06:43
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quote:
Originally posted by TheIriaeban
Thank you. Here are the results:
Drizzt came out strong on this one. Kane barely did any damage to him.
The winner of the trial by combat in round 3 is Drizzt
This one was a real slugfest with the two of them. Towards the end they were blocking each others attacks but Kane was able to get one through and take out Drizzt.
The winner of the trial by combat in round 7 is Kane
The last one was really just a replay of the first one.
The winner of the trial by combat in round 3 is Drizzt
Drizzt has the advantage because he is smarter and wiser than Kane so he is tactically better off in a fight. He also has more hit points. The only thing that could even them out is if Kane is significantly luckier than Drizzt.
Edit: Looking at Kane's stats and seeing that he made it to level 16, he would have had to have been luckier than most because, for a monk, his stats are really just the baseline ones so that he qualifies to be one. So, adjusting for luck, here are the results:
The winner of the trial by combat in round 13 is Kane
he winner of the trial by combat in round 3 is Kane
The winner of the trial by combat in round 8 is Kane
This assumes that Drizzt's luck is just average.
In all seriousness, D man’s luck is off the charts. He wins all “rolls”
Also don’t forget. He now wears the bracers of speed on his wrists again, because his monk training has speed up hi feet now that he’s balanced. That’s no joke it says that in text. I just wanna know why his hand led didn’t improve also? Because now he has to take 3 attacks for what used to be two to be balanced. Are there really bracers that make you 50% faster? |
A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka
"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -
John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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The Red Walker
Great Reader
USA
3567 Posts |
Posted - 17 Aug 2022 : 20:24:32
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And to be clear. For all it’s faults I still loved it. Why you ask? I love the Realms…. Always will. Not saying it will ever happen…. But if it’s ever to regain what it was it has two lifelines.
1. Bob’s novels. We need sales enough that the publisher (or another) wants to give another author a shot at the realms( please call Elaine, please call Elaine) or asks Bob to write about something else in the realms
2. The upcoming D and D movie Being a hit. It rumored to be set in the realms… with Waterdeep playing a big role…. If this one sinks it’s probably no realms video projects ever again. If it is successfully? Whelp Hollywood is all about “new” and highly franchisable IP. Movies, series, comics, novels all back as possibilities.
So don’t let this novels turn your eye from the chance we have for our Realms.
I’ve literally showed the D and D teaser trailer to all my non realms fan friends and asked them to go see it. Tell them to go for Chris Pine, or Hugh Grant or Michelle Rodriguez….. and if that doesn’t get them …. Remind them you went to see Twilight for them |
A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka
"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -
John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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Edited by - The Red Walker on 17 Aug 2022 20:25:07 |
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sno4wy
Senior Scribe
USA
466 Posts |
Posted - 17 Aug 2022 : 20:36:10
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| Kane is a far cry from those stats though. Back then, he was only a Master of Spring. Now, he's the Grandmaster of Flowers, and has been for over 100 years. He's not only transcended the human life expectancy, he's not even really mortal anymore. How this translates into stats, I have no idea, but I think it's safe to say that he's max level with no small amount in epic levels and feats. |
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Irennan
Great Reader
Italy
3806 Posts |
Posted - 17 Aug 2022 : 22:04:51
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quote:
Originally posted by The Red Walker
So don’t let this novels turn your eye from the chance we have for our Realms.
I’ve literally showed the D and D teaser trailer to all my non realms fan friends and asked them to go see it. Tell them to go for Chris Pine, or Hugh Grant or Michelle Rodriguez….. and if that doesn’t get them …. Remind them you went to see Twilight for them
Eh, to me quality takes priority over loyalty to a setting (especially a setting that has honestly kinda lost any kind of identity). And the quality of the stories being currently told is abysmal.
I personally won't promote the D&D movie until I know it has a good screenwriting and good acting. The trailer was a bunch of tropes mashed together, so I'm not exactly excited. I'll wait and see what they do before recommending (or not).
I too hope that the Realms will see quality stories again, but I'll keep my expectations for the future super low, because being disappointed sucks a lot. |
Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things. |
Edited by - Irennan on 17 Aug 2022 22:14:09 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 17 Aug 2022 : 22:59:48
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quote:
Originally posted by TheIriaeban
Edit: Looking at Kane's stats and seeing that he made it to level 16, he would have had to have been luckier than most because, for a monk, his stats are really just the baseline ones so that he qualifies to be one. So, adjusting for luck, here are the results:
17th level, actually, according to The Bloodstone Lands. The full stats, where he was level 16, were from a series of 1E modules. The Bloodstone Lands was a 2E sourcebook.
... penned by one R. A. Salvatore. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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sno4wy
Senior Scribe
USA
466 Posts |
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Renin
Learned Scribe
USA
290 Posts |
Posted - 18 Aug 2022 : 00:53:45
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RAS wrote Drizz't as his own mouthpiece for organized religion. He's said as much in interviews.
I remember one book back down the years, where D didn't say he worshipped Mielikki, just that she was already on a path he was following, so he would follow it too. If she strayed or would enforce something he didn't believe, then that relationship would end.
Whatever, dude.
There's almost a part of me where RAS is having a joke on all his fans. "They want another one? Hmm...I bet my drow could run across water, outrace an elemental, and cause a king to give up his crown to D. I'll write that...and they'll still buy it! Bwhahahaha!"
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CorellonsDevout
Great Reader
USA
2708 Posts |
Posted - 18 Aug 2022 : 00:58:28
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quote:
Originally posted by The Red Walker
And to be clear. For all it’s faults I still loved it. Why you ask? I love the Realms…. Always will. Not saying it will ever happen…. But if it’s ever to regain what it was it has two lifelines.
1. Bob’s novels. We need sales enough that the publisher (or another) wants to give another author a shot at the realms( please call Elaine, please call Elaine) or asks Bob to write about something else in the realms
2. The upcoming D and D movie Being a hit. It rumored to be set in the realms… with Waterdeep playing a big role…. If this one sinks it’s probably no realms video projects ever again. If it is successfully? Whelp Hollywood is all about “new” and highly franchisable IP. Movies, series, comics, novels all back as possibilities.
So don’t let this novels turn your eye from the chance we have for our Realms.
Except that the Drizzt books are on Realms books on a technicality. They don't represent the Realms at all, and RAS does what he wants, using the Realms as a backdrop. |
Sweet water and light laughter |
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Irennan
Great Reader
Italy
3806 Posts |
Posted - 18 Aug 2022 : 01:59:25
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quote:
Originally posted by sno4wy
For those interested, I just posted the next part of my detailed review/analysis. This part's about the positives aspects of the novel: https://archiveofourown.org/works/40921692/chapters/103033185
There are some nice nuggets there, I really liked the analysis you did on similes and metaphors (and the ones RAS used were indeed good).
This reminds me that the way RAS (and whoever still writes with the omniscent narrator) uses metaphor and similes kinda leaves me puzzled. How do you decide when to use them, if you have no PoV?
Metaphors and similes are double edged swords. They are good because our brains LOVE connecting things that are apparently unrelated; our thinking and imagination are associative in nature. OTOH, metaphors and similes have the disadvantage of bringing the reader out of PoV and of the context, because they make people think of an entirely different scenario, and because sensory associations can in turn evoke emotions connected to our past experiences (and this can lead to unexpected results). A good rule of thumb is to use a metaphor only if:
1)The PoV would actually make that comparison in that situation, which depends on their characterization and past experiences.
2)The scenario is too unlike anything that exists IRL to be described, so a metaphor substitutes the actual sensory detail AND may also be a comparison that the PoV would actually make, if the scenario is unfamiliar to them too (because we perceive things by comparing them with our experience. Classic example: comparing the scream of an alien or a monster to a different sound that we already know).
The problem is: since the concept of PoV just doesn't exists in RAS' writing, you're left with either just 2), or with dropping metaphors wherever you want. It further hurts the need that narrative has to be transparent in order to facilitate immersion--i.e. the mechanics of writing need to never be apparent, the flow of details needs to be as close as possible as the natural way the character would perceive their situation, so the scenes (and the story) need to be designed from within their PoV. A metaphor dropped with no other criterion other than the writer's personal decision smells like intrusive narrator. But I guess it can't be helped if there's no PoV who experiences the scene, so maybe this use of metaphors is as good as it gets when you write omniscent. |
Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things. |
Edited by - Irennan on 18 Aug 2022 02:01:15 |
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HighOne
Learned Scribe
216 Posts |
Posted - 18 Aug 2022 : 16:35:29
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quote:
Originally posted by The Red Walker
Well I loved it. Also, I did not read any of his self help journal what’s its as I have not for all 30 whatever Drizzt books…. Skipped all the scenes in menzo that didn’t involve an interesting character…. Fast forwarded through the fight scenes….
This has been my method for enjoying the Drizzt series too: I skip the parts I don't like, including whole books (that one about Wulfgar never interested me). It makes the experience much better. |
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TheIriaeban
Master of Realmslore
USA
1289 Posts |
Posted - 18 Aug 2022 : 18:38:24
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quote:
Originally posted by sno4wy
For those interested, I just posted the next part of my detailed review/analysis. This part's about the positives aspects of the novel: https://archiveofourown.org/works/40921692/chapters/103033185
That was very interesting. It was much longer than I expected given what was contained in the Introduction. |
"Iriaebor is a fine city. So what if you can have violence between merchant groups break out at any moment. Not every city can offer dinner AND a show."
My FR writeups - http://www.mediafire.com/folder/um3liz6tqsf5n/Documents
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sno4wy
Senior Scribe
USA
466 Posts |
Posted - 19 Aug 2022 : 06:27:21
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quote:
Originally posted by TheIriaeban
quote:
Originally posted by sno4wy
For those interested, I just posted the next part of my detailed review/analysis. This part's about the positives aspects of the novel: https://archiveofourown.org/works/40921692/chapters/103033185
That was very interesting. It was much longer than I expected given what was contained in the Introduction.
I'm glad you found it interesting! All the sections following the introduction are much longer than the introduction. Except for the conclusion. |
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Glacier's Edge coming later this year
