quote:

---

Originally posted by Brimstone

Looks like you beat me to it Wooly!

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Azar

I am scared.

---

quote:

---

The Astral Adventurer’s Guide, a 64-page hardcover book for players and Dungeon Masters that presents the Astral Plane as a campaign setting and includes space-based character options, spells and magic items, deck plans and descriptions for spelljamming ships, and more
Boo’s Astral Menagerie, a 64-page hardcover book for Dungeon Masters that presents game statistics and descriptions for over 60 creatures found in Wildspace and the Astral Sea, including astral elves, cosmic horrors, lunar and solar dragons, murder comets, and space clowns.
Light of Xaryxis, a 64-page hardcover adventure for Dungeon Masters that is set in the Astral Plane and designed for characters of levels 5–8
Double-sided poster map of the Rock of Bral, an asteroid-city that can serve as both an adventure location and a campaign hub in the Astral Plane
Sturdy, four-panel Dungeon Master’s screen designed for use with the books in this set

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ayrik

... Planescape envy ... mutter mutter grumble phlfbt ...

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

Honestly, I expected the revisited settings to be Dragonlance and Dark Sun, with Planescape being a strong possibility. I've long felt that Spelljammer was just too problematic, and even when it was going strong, it wasn't as popular as most of the other settings -- so this move really surprises me.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by PattPlays

I just watched the animated trailer, which depicts the rock of bral floating in a pink astral mist. They're really going to depict a satellite asteroid as an astral object, not in the material plane. I bet you these spelljammers will get a magic item entry as a wonderous vehicle that "allows you to plane shift into the astral" and that's it. So much for sailing to Greyhawk or Krynn without ever leaving the material plane. Candlekeep mysteries has a rocketship, Baldur's Gate III has nautiloids with space-illithid, but the Tears of Selune are too complicated for a mass fantasy audience?

They advertise Sun and Moon dragons in the bestiary, which are NOT astral creatures. I just hope that astral background for the Rock of Bral in the trailer isn't canon. They claim to take you through Wildspace.. but I don't see how they're going to have a monster entry that says "this creature lairs on the surface of suns" and then call the Rock of Bral a city in the plane of dreams. Maybe they just plane-shift the city there for an adventure.. That'd be entirely forgivable.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by George Krashos

Looks like they've borrowed off the old Voidjammer Dragon article.

-- George Krashos

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Balmar Foghaven

Given how its being directly tied to the Astral Plane, I'm wondering if this is not some sort of fusion of Spelljammer and Planescape settings... Jammers that can plane shift to any of the inner or outer planes, anyone?
That said, I wonder how this will affect the lore surrounding crystal spheres...

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Outlander

So first off, I saw on FB that Jeff Grubb wasn't consulted or asked about any part of this. So, that's already a little disappointing. That aside:

My main issue with this is not that the Phlogiston is gone. It admittedly had issues. The main issue is that it makes the Astral Plane into a place that can be accessed by physically traveling "up".

(snip)

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

quote:

---

Originally posted by Outlander

So first off, I saw on FB that Jeff Grubb wasn't consulted or asked about any part of this. So, that's already a little disappointing. That aside:

My main issue with this is not that the Phlogiston is gone. It admittedly had issues. The main issue is that it makes the Astral Plane into a place that can be accessed by physically traveling "up".

(snip)

---

We don't know ANYTHING other than that space is now in the Astral Sea. We don't know that that works, at all -- so we don't know that up goes to the Astral.

My personal SPECULATION is that there's a limit to how high a ship can go, over a planet. I think ships will phase out of the Prime and into the Astral. It may be that it happens at a particular altitude, it may be that it happens X rounds after a helm is activated. And if it is altitude-based, then there will likely be some limitation in place to make sure it's only ships that this happens to; anything else will only get so high before it can't generate enough lift to keep going up.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by PattPlays

Agreed, outlander- and welcome to the forum.

We cried and yelled and shouted and eventually, an executive heard us. What was heard was: "we will buy product if its named spelljammer" and so they set their teams to make "spelljammer" with nobody knowing what it is or why we want it.
Pray for Dragonlance- who knows how much it will be butchered. If Jeff Grubb wasn't consulted for this then that just makes me think that Dragonlance's upcoming 5e modules will have blurbs of flavor quotes in the margins by famous Krynn characters without the novel writers getting consulted on anything. I mean, no products are actually out yet, but the decisions have clearly already been made for both products and WOTC won't turn back. I see no downside to getting all the anger out while we wait. Might help me enjoy this not-at-all-spelljammer suite as an independent astral package unrelated to this whole thing.

Maybe we should all find some quotes from last year and before about various users really really wanting spelljammer in 5e, and then get a side-by-side reaction of their disappointment. Quick, someone play Little Dark Age over a slideshow of original Spelljammer art! Get those worst-timeline vibes going.

Also, RIP the planets of Toril. We will never hear tale of them again. Because the planets no longer exist and Toril is more or less a Flat World like I've heard Greyhawk described as. Above the world is the astral, and selune doesn't exist, the dawn heralds don't exist, the rock of bral is in the astral, and the space-faring illithid are now just illithid.
Rejoice, for your prayers have been answered. Whereas Realmspace lore was once forgotten it shall now be unmade and a dummy shall be gilded and dangled from the pole of the hype that we generated for their pockets.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

And things like dohwar, space swine, zodar, and of course the giant space hamster, are all from the Monstrous Compendium entries.

They may not have consulted Jeff Grubb, but I don't see an issue with that. They consulted his work, which is just as important (and easier than involving someone who is now an outsider).

Changes have obviously been made, but I've already seen more effort to incorporate old material than anything WotC has given us for a long time.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ayrik


Though I admit I'm skeptical about WotC's intentions (or competence). This is the sort of product I'd examine carefully at the store before buying (or not buying). I hope for the best but must also expect more of the worst.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

quote:

---

Originally posted by PattPlays

Agreed, outlander- and welcome to the forum.

We cried and yelled and shouted and eventually, an executive heard us. What was heard was: "we will buy product if its named spelljammer" and so they set their teams to make "spelljammer" with nobody knowing what it is or why we want it.
Pray for Dragonlance- who knows how much it will be butchered. If Jeff Grubb wasn't consulted for this then that just makes me think that Dragonlance's upcoming 5e modules will have blurbs of flavor quotes in the margins by famous Krynn characters without the novel writers getting consulted on anything. I mean, no products are actually out yet, but the decisions have clearly already been made for both products and WOTC won't turn back. I see no downside to getting all the anger out while we wait. Might help me enjoy this not-at-all-spelljammer suite as an independent astral package unrelated to this whole thing.

Maybe we should all find some quotes from last year and before about various users really really wanting spelljammer in 5e, and then get a side-by-side reaction of their disappointment. Quick, someone play Little Dark Age over a slideshow of original Spelljammer art! Get those worst-timeline vibes going.

Also, RIP the planets of Toril. We will never hear tale of them again. Because the planets no longer exist and Toril is more or less a Flat World like I've heard Greyhawk described as. Above the world is the astral, and selune doesn't exist, the dawn heralds don't exist, the rock of bral is in the astral, and the space-faring illithid are now just illithid.
Rejoice, for your prayers have been answered. Whereas Realmspace lore was once forgotten it shall now be unmade and a dummy shall be gilded and dangled from the pole of the hype that we generated for their pockets.

---

Here's a couple more "maybes": Maybe it won't be all that bad. Maybe we could do this absolutely crazy thing of waiting until it actually comes out, and judge it based on what it actually is, instead of condemning it based purely on your own uninformed expectations.

And yes, "uninformed". The product isn't out yet, no previews have been released, no one has been given advanced copies to discuss. As of now, IT DOES NOT EXIST. So you have NO information beyond an advertisement, and yet you're trash-talking it.

You want to speculate? That's fine, I encourage it. And I encourage actually looking at the product when it comes out.

I have been utterly sick, for years now, of people rushing to condemn new products the second they're announced. This is one of the things that drives fans away and encourages companies to entirely drop product lines.

All I ask for is one simple thing: Have an INFORMED opinion. Judge something when you can actually lay hands on it and see what it is. Until then, enough with the "this thing doesn't exist yet but it sucks!" crap.

---