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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11829 Posts |
 Posted - 12 Feb 2022 : 16:18:20
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Hey,
So, I want to introduce some centaurs that are nothing special other than zebra bottomed. I got to thinking about coloration of them, and I know there's white/black, white/dark brown, light brown/black.... but then I thought "why limit it to our world". So, my mind first went to "green and yellow".... because of battlecat. But the more I think on that the more it just makes me go "too cartoony". There any color combos that jump out at anyone as "that would make sense". Not interested in a rainbow zebra unless its like a goddess or something. They'd be living in a plains environment. To note, their skin colorations will run the gamut (some ebony, some nut brown, some a light mocha, some pale skinned) and their hair may also vary between human degrees... but they may like coloring it. In fact, they might even dye the fur on their horse half.
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Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Seethyr
Master of Realmslore
USA
1151 Posts |
Posted - 13 Feb 2022 : 16:55:50
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Hrmmm, it’s tough to say because I’m stuck in the mindset of what evolution would bring about. Nothing other than the very plain colorations of normal zebras comes to mind without a good magical reason to do otherwise. If, perhaps, there is a type of blue reed or grass that they live among perhaps stripes of blue with brown would go well together?
Perhaps this could give them some connection to the nic’Epona if Planescape as well? |
Follow the Maztica (Aztec/Maya) and Anchorome (Indigenous North America) Campaigns on DMsGuild!
The Maztica Campaign
The Anchorome Campaign |
Edited by - Seethyr on 13 Feb 2022 16:56:51 |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11829 Posts |
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TomCosta
Forgotten Realms Designer
USA
971 Posts |
Posted - 14 Feb 2022 : 00:29:43
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| The centaurs of the Shaar are "zebra-taurs" with more fey-like faces according to 3E Shining South p 163. The humanoid/fey portion has golden bronze skin and light brown or golden hair. |
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Azar
Master of Realmslore
1309 Posts |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11829 Posts |
Posted - 14 Feb 2022 : 13:17:21
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quote:
Originally posted by TomCosta
The centaurs of the Shaar are "zebra-taurs" with more fey-like faces according to 3E Shining South p 163. The humanoid/fey portion has golden bronze skin and light brown or golden hair.
Ok, I thought there was somewhere a mention of them in the shaar. That being said, I won't be going for the pointed ears/fey look. They'll also use the 5e rules for centaurs from guildmaster's guide to Ravnica and be size medium. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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TomCosta
Forgotten Realms Designer
USA
971 Posts |
Posted - 14 Feb 2022 : 21:24:06
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quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
quote:
Originally posted by TomCosta
The centaurs of the Shaar are "zebra-taurs" with more fey-like faces according to 3E Shining South p 163. The humanoid/fey portion has golden bronze skin and light brown or golden hair.
Ok, I thought there was somewhere a mention of them in the shaar. That being said, I won't be going for the pointed ears/fey look. They'll also use the 5e rules for centaurs from guildmaster's guide to Ravnica and be size medium.
FWIW, Shining South says aside from their appearance they are statistically just like other centaurs, so I'm guessing that's fine. Although I personally think 5E player centaurs should still be size Large, it doesn't make too much difference in 5E play either way. |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11829 Posts |
Posted - 15 Feb 2022 : 01:08:54
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quote:
Originally posted by TomCosta
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
quote:
Originally posted by TomCosta
The centaurs of the Shaar are "zebra-taurs" with more fey-like faces according to 3E Shining South p 163. The humanoid/fey portion has golden bronze skin and light brown or golden hair.
Ok, I thought there was somewhere a mention of them in the shaar. That being said, I won't be going for the pointed ears/fey look. They'll also use the 5e rules for centaurs from guildmaster's guide to Ravnica and be size medium.
FWIW, Shining South says aside from their appearance they are statistically just like other centaurs, so I'm guessing that's fine. Although I personally think 5E player centaurs should still be size Large, it doesn't make too much difference in 5E play either way.
Well, for Anchorome, I created 2 different versions of the race (one large and one medium), and I put the "native" ones as medium and the large ones as from Faerun. Those were based on the native ones being somewhat like the native American cultures, etc.... and the "imported ones" came in with Thayan immigrants then joined existing cultures. So, I'm keen on the idea that not all things are the same size everywhere. For instance, my Anikiwah are basically a size medium hybsil with less of a fey link. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11829 Posts |
Posted - 16 Feb 2022 : 13:57:55
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| So, I can't believe this just hit me.... it's kind of obvious, but sometimes you just have to mull stuff in your mind while doing other things. Normal is white with black stripes, but predominantly white. The polka dotted one made me realize it could also be the reverse... mostly black with white or light brown stripes... mostly dark brown with white or light brown stripes. This actually opens up some more believable colorations to me as well like mostly black with a tawny orange/yellow (tiger color). So perhaps the pale/slightly tanned ones will have the normal look, whereas the darker skinned ones will be more likely to have the reverse colorations. At the same time, I also want a gazelle/impala/nyala/kudu race of tauric folk as well as competition (possibly relatives of my deer folk in Anchorome that I call anikiwah) and this other race will be refer to themselves as Nyalaaku, and will vary between size small and medium. The big physical difference between the two races, one has horns the other doesn't, but different outlooks. Another big difference, these people look very human, have no ties to the fey, and in fact their histories hint that they may have been human long ago. Changes like what Zaltec did to the humans in Maztica may not have been the only changes, possibly long ago.... though whether they were human caused or divine.... |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
Edited by - sleyvas on 16 Feb 2022 14:01:35 |
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sno4wy
Senior Scribe
USA
466 Posts |
Posted - 19 Feb 2022 : 06:11:40
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There's no reason that they can be whatever you want aesthetically, "because magic". There are so many examples of creatures that'd migrated to FR from other worlds that there's no reason that a combination you like couldn't have just been as a result of a series of freak accidents.
That being said, if you wanted to follow scientific reasons for why zebras are the way that they are for the human portions, then it'd depend on which reasoning you follow for a zebra's stripes. The cause of the stripes are apparently still being investigated, but some of those reasons might not apply in a fantasy world. If the stripes are evolved mainly as a byproduct of camouflage, maybe the look of the human portion would follow that impetus, and as that portion rises above the grassline, maybe it can match the color of the sky, seen in the spectrum that the creature's predominant predator views the sky. if the stripes evolved mainly to deal with temperature regulation, the human portion could be wholly unaffected, as the zebra part is probably significant enough of surface area to shed the heat. If the stripes evolved as a way to deter disease-transmitting parasites that feed on the zebrataurs' blood, maybe the human portions would be striped too (albeit in a different way), or spotted, or via some other visual means to deter such parasites. |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 19 Feb 2022 : 08:07:14
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Horses and zebras are part of the same taxon family. Though rare, the species have successfully been interbred to produce sterile mule-like "zebroids" like "hebras" and "donkras".
But zebras and horses are different in a lot more ways than just stripes.
Horses are social herd animals. They're "easily" domesticated because they form bonds and relationships, taming a herd alpha causes the others to naturally fall into line. They have psychology and instincts wired to naturally follow the lead, even when the lead is a human or is being ridden by a human. The proverb is that every horse will be broken with enough time and patience. The other proverb is that the right horse can be the truest friend you'll ever have.
Zebras are solitary herd animals. Their herd clusters provide safety in numbers. Though they prefer to be alone or to surround themselves with as few other animals as possible. They do not recognize relationships or bonds with others of their kind. Outside of brief mating behaviours it's just every zebra for itself, they don't even protect their own mates or young. They don't bother to warn or defend each other, they only become aware of predators by noticing that others are fleeing or being attacked. And they have universally bad attitudes, they're all mean bastards who'll bully weaker animals, they're all pathetic cowards who'll run from stronger animals. They're also stubbornly indomitable and extremely unpredictable. Humans have never domesticated zebras, never really found it worth the effort to tame zebras, rarely even found zebras worthwhile to keep as pets or in zoos.
I imagine that a half-zebra vs half-horse would have very different temperaments and behaviours. For starters, it seems very unlikely that you'd ever encounter a herd of zebrataurs rambling around the plains, they'd all prefer to remain solitary unless safety in numbers is necessary. And if they generally dislike being around their own kind then they certainly dislike being around your kind. Each one would be a stubbornly self-reliant survivalist type, they probably wouldn't even rush to aid each other if you attacked one, not their problem if a better-you-than-me target can't defend itself. Although then again they might join the fight, simply because they might have the advantage over combatants who are already distracted and injured by each other. Wild zebras are opportunistic and often attack each other without any apparent reason or provocation.
But to be fair, D&D has many other human-animal hybrids, half horse, half tiger, half fish, half snake, half whatever. Without much regard for the "ecology", "biology", or "psychology" of such creatures beyond how cool they might look in the artwork. |
[/Ayrik] |
Edited by - Ayrik on 19 Feb 2022 08:40:56 |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11829 Posts |
Posted - 19 Feb 2022 : 15:38:15
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quote:
Originally posted by sno4wy
There's no reason that they can be whatever you want aesthetically, "because magic". There are so many examples of creatures that'd migrated to FR from other worlds that there's no reason that a combination you like couldn't have just been as a result of a series of freak accidents.
That being said, if you wanted to follow scientific reasons for why zebras are the way that they are for the human portions, then it'd depend on which reasoning you follow for a zebra's stripes. The cause of the stripes are apparently still being investigated, but some of those reasons might not apply in a fantasy world. If the stripes are evolved mainly as a byproduct of camouflage, maybe the look of the human portion would follow that impetus, and as that portion rises above the grassline, maybe it can match the color of the sky, seen in the spectrum that the creature's predominant predator views the sky. if the stripes evolved mainly to deal with temperature regulation, the human portion could be wholly unaffected, as the zebra part is probably significant enough of surface area to shed the heat. If the stripes evolved as a way to deter disease-transmitting parasites that feed on the zebrataurs' blood, maybe the human portions would be striped too (albeit in a different way), or spotted, or via some other visual means to deter such parasites.
I'm not going that scientific that I want blue bodied centaurs. Its magically related. I just didn't want to go so far afield that a person looking at a picture would immediately think "that's dumb looking" or "that looks like a cartoon". That's why, like I said, the first thoughts I had were of a green and yellow, and then I pictured it in my head... and I was like "yeah, that's too far". I won't explain HOW they became like this either, but it will be something related to magic and them being former humans long ago (as I'm doing with a LOT of races where I'm doing this). |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11829 Posts |
Posted - 19 Feb 2022 : 15:47:23
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quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
Horses and zebras are part of the same taxon family. Though rare, the species have successfully been interbred to produce sterile mule-like "zebroids" like "hebras" and "donkras".
But zebras and horses are different in a lot more ways than just stripes.
Horses are social herd animals. They're "easily" domesticated because they form bonds and relationships, taming a herd alpha causes the others to naturally fall into line. They have psychology and instincts wired to naturally follow the lead, even when the lead is a human or is being ridden by a human. The proverb is that every horse will be broken with enough time and patience. The other proverb is that the right horse can be the truest friend you'll ever have.
Zebras are solitary herd animals. Their herd clusters provide safety in numbers. Though they prefer to be alone or to surround themselves with as few other animals as possible. They do not recognize relationships or bonds with others of their kind. Outside of brief mating behaviours it's just every zebra for itself, they don't even protect their own mates or young. They don't bother to warn or defend each other, they only become aware of predators by noticing that others are fleeing or being attacked. And they have universally bad attitudes, they're all mean bastards who'll bully weaker animals, they're all pathetic cowards who'll run from stronger animals. They're also stubbornly indomitable and extremely unpredictable. Humans have never domesticated zebras, never really found it worth the effort to tame zebras, rarely even found zebras worthwhile to keep as pets or in zoos.
I imagine that a half-zebra vs half-horse would have very different temperaments and behaviours. For starters, it seems very unlikely that you'd ever encounter a herd of zebrataurs rambling around the plains, they'd all prefer to remain solitary unless safety in numbers is necessary. And if they generally dislike being around their own kind then they certainly dislike being around your kind. Each one would be a stubbornly self-reliant survivalist type, they probably wouldn't even rush to aid each other if you attacked one, not their problem if a better-you-than-me target can't defend itself. Although then again they might join the fight, simply because they might have the advantage over combatants who are already distracted and injured by each other. Wild zebras are opportunistic and often attack each other without any apparent reason or provocation.
But to be fair, D&D has many other human-animal hybrids, half horse, half tiger, half fish, half snake, half whatever. Without much regard for the "ecology", "biology", or "psychology" of such creatures beyond how cool they might look in the artwork.
Thank you for this... its very interesting because where I wanted to go wasn't to have a "unified zebrataur nation", but rather one grouping that does have a society and work together and then other small groups that are very much competitive and essentially at odds with each other for territory (as well as at odds with nearly everything else around). I was also playing with the idea that they might have different attitudes about their own kind based on coloration (after all, who says humans have a lock on being racist). Finally, I also wanted to have many of them, as loners, who hire themselves out as bodyguards, mercenaries, town patrol guard, wilderness guides, etc.... |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 20 Feb 2022 : 04:51:30
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Well, to continue being fair ... centaurs in D&D don't seem particularly "horse-like" in their psychology. I don't know much about horses but I'm pretty sure they don't enjoy endless partying, shameless promiscuity, and getting drunk on cheap wine. From my understanding, horses tend to form family units and friendships, and though they like the wild gallop now and then they generally prefer a placid lifestyle of just standing around with their buddies, happily snorting and munching on plants.
But centaurs are half "human", after all. The top half, at least, where all the brains are. So, aside from always having two empty stomachs to feed (and some other horse-like anatomical specifics), they're probably about as "intelligent" and varied in their behaviours as any other human would be.
Zebras have a vicious double-hoofed back kick they sometimes use against predators (or each other). They also have a vicious bite, big strong jaws which can grab and twist chunks of flesh. Though they don't use their bite against predators (because they're running) and they tend to only tear chunks of mane out of each other. Nobody knows why they fight each other, it's apparently not to establish some sort of social hierarchy or status, but while they're unpredictably aggressive they're also not suicidally stupid. They still naturally herd together - and have to tolerate some amount of cooperating with each other - in the African savannahs because those who stray too far too often usually end up getting eaten.
Biologists have studied zebras a lot. But also haven't studied zebras a lot. The consensus appears to agree on describing zebras as a semi-violent antisocial animal. Others argue passionately that zebras are social animals with complex social structures (including "royalty" and "harems") who demonstrate compassion, altruism, and sacrifice for each other. There might be different zebra species in different regions, documentaries and online sources don't seem to agree. |
[/Ayrik] |
Edited by - Ayrik on 20 Feb 2022 06:15:20 |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11829 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jul 2022 : 19:25:44
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quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wOmjnioNulo
That was INCREDIBLY good to watch in that it broke down in a good way the difference between tamed and domesticated, etc... Thank you. Very much stresses their lack of familial bonding, and makes me think Zebrataurs should act similarly. It's a good way to differentiate them from centaurs. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Centaur Colorations: Zebrataurs
