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_Jarlaxle_
Senior Scribe
Germany
584 Posts |
 Posted - 31 Jan 2022 : 14:49:28
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What has always irked me since I saw it in the Sword Costs Adventurer's Guide, is it listing Larloch as an example for an Undying Warlock patron in the realms.
It even mentions Warlock's Crypt which in previous lore came from a mispronunciation of Larloch's name, which he really didn't like.
But even aside from this I never saw any lore that supported him giving powers to warlocks. Am I missing something that would support an explanation where the autor didn't just fall for the "Warlock's Crypt" thing?
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MandarinB
Acolyte
USA
28 Posts |
Posted - 31 Jan 2022 : 15:38:51
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| I think it as more just the author looking for famous liches and deciding 'that one will do'. A similar thing gets done when Strahd is mentioned as a patron for an Undead Warlock in Van Richten's Guide to Ravenloft. It's hard to see Larloch or Strahd caring to give a lesser being pact magic, but they are both technically possible patrons for those looking to make warlocks. |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11829 Posts |
Posted - 31 Jan 2022 : 15:39:14
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I've personally had a problem with the concept of warlock patrons as presented. It makes for a cute story that its someone like Larloch, but then you never get a reason WHY he has the power to do this. I've heard of people wanting to do the same with Szass Tam, and I find that 20 times worse, because I see him as an NPC for players to challenge. The whole idea of them popping in and out of your character's lives like in the Brimstone Angels novels is a fun concept as well, but it presents the believability issue of "oh, want to disempower that 20th level warlock? Go kill that CR 16 devil". Granted, Larloch is meant to be "that level way beyond players", so it COULD make sense, but I agree... I don't like it. Personally, I like using the concept with saw with Binders in 3.5e as warlock patrons. They are trapped somewhere. They want to interact with the world again. They're giving power for that purpose. Weaker gods that can't yet power clerics, paladins, druids, or rangers might instead be able to empower warlocks and "witches". Primal spirits, primordials, archfey, fiend lords that rule planes.... all of these I buy having warlocks. In fact, I like the idea of fiend lords having warlocks over having clerics, etc... though I know we'll never get that concept back into its box.... perhaps something like the divine soul, but with warlocks, to simulate them having priests.
In fact, going back to the binder concept, it makes a lot more sense to me that warlocks have a patron in the form of a "type" of being, and then allowing them to make deals amongst them for power. So, for instance, they can call upon the "power" of a plane of hell and they might need to make an offering to them for the power... but they aren't beholden to any one demon for their powers. Less like a cleric and more like a mercenary willing to bargain with whatever beings they have to to get their power. Similarly they might work with different genies, different powers of necromancy, etc... they know Kiaransalee likes this offering, but that if they want Myrkul's blessing they should offer something else. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
Edited by - sleyvas on 31 Jan 2022 15:46:48 |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11829 Posts |
Posted - 31 Jan 2022 : 15:41:32
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quote:
Originally posted by MandarinB
I think it as more just the author looking for famous liches and deciding 'that one will do'. A similar thing gets done when Strahd is mentioned as a patron for an Undead Warlock in Van Richten's Guide to Ravenloft. It's hard to see Larloch or Strahd caring to give a lesser being pact magic, but they are both technically possible patrons for those looking to make warlocks.
Yeah, see I could see it more being a person in Ravenloft is contacted by "the Dark Powers" who gives them their power more than a domain lord. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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LordofBones
Master of Realmslore
1536 Posts |
Posted - 01 Feb 2022 : 10:32:52
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| The entire shtick of the Dark Powers is ironic hell; I can't see them being patrons to warlocks unless it's to screw over the warlock in the process. |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11829 Posts |
Posted - 01 Feb 2022 : 13:37:52
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quote:
Originally posted by LordofBones
The entire shtick of the Dark Powers is ironic hell; I can't see them being patrons to warlocks unless it's to screw over the warlock in the process.
Or to elevate them to the point that they screw over a domain lord and eventually replace him.... which of course fits as well as screwing over the warlock. But that's what Ravenloft games typically turn into that I've seen (granted I haven't run in Ravenloft now for more than 20 maybe 25 years ..... I liked the concept early on, and its fine for a short campaign, which most would be nowadays honestly... but I enjoy the world building / design concept nowadays more than playing... as I suspect many do) |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3741 Posts |
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questing gm
Master of Realmslore
Malaysia
1451 Posts |
Posted - 02 Feb 2022 : 00:38:10
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quote:
Originally posted by _Jarlaxle_
What has always irked me since I saw it in the Sword Costs Adventurer's Guide, is it listing Larloch as an example for an Undying Warlock patron in the realms.
It even mentions Warlock's Crypt which in previous lore came from a mispronunciation of Larloch's name, which he really didn't like.
But even aside from this I never saw any lore that supported him giving powers to warlocks. Am I missing something that would support an explanation where the autor didn't just fall for the "Warlock's Crypt" thing?
Ed's chime in about Larloch being patron for warlocks:
quote:
@LonePaladin
So how would he work as a warlock patron?
@TheEdVerse
Badly, considering he's out of contact with the Realms right now. And quite possibly with continued existence. I'd not want to fight toe-to-toe with the Srinshee.
@LonePaladin
Waidaminit. What did I miss? Larloch's listed in the SCAG as a patron, but I'm clearly out of the loop.
@TheEdVerse
The big battle at the end of THE HERALD, the final novel of The Sundering Saga. Some dramatic things happened. ;}
Source: https://twitter.com/TheEdVerse/status/1237936263883358209
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Larloch as patron for warlocks
