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Zeromaru X
Great Reader
Colombia
2476 Posts |
 Posted - 30 Jul 2021 : 18:10:56
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quote:
Originally posted by Irennan
I hope you now understand why people react to what's canon and what isn't, even though they are already ignoring what they don't like. You're doing it yourself right now.
Oh, but I'm not reacting to what's and isn't canon. I'm just happy that they made it official, that's all.
I do understand the people that is overreacting over canon, but I consider that it is an overreaction. Just go and read the very first post of this topic if you disagree with me.
quote:
Originally posted by questing gm
Has anyone ever felt 'like they must read a novel, play a video game, or buy a third-edition sourcebook to enjoy our game and get the most out of our current line of products.'? Sounds to me like most of us can agree that our canon starts and ends where we want the canon to be. Has anyone actively not run or play a FR campaign until they have done their homework? (not a rhetoric, actually curious)
Who are these DMs being burdened?
When I became DM for the very first time, like 13 years ago, because the original DM left, I had to be the DM (despite the fact I was a new player as well) because no one else had the patience to "read zillions of novels just to prepare an adventure". And I HAD to read a lot of stuff just to met the expectations of those very players. Even worst, most of the materials were in English, a language I wasn't familiar with yet, so I had to taught myself to read in English to be able to read the sourcebooks and novels I didn't had in Spanish.
That's why I really liked the 4e Realms when they came, because it freed me from that burden. While I can absolutely empathize with fans who were frustrated by such a drastic transformation of a beloved setting, and I'm not justifying the approach that was taken, for me it was liberating. I felt that I was now free to actually run the campaign I wanted, instead of playing in the campaign of the creators of the setting.
So, that it doesn't have happened to you doesn't mean it doesn't happen. Just search in the Internet, and there are hundreds or more stories like mine.
quote:
Originally posted by questing gm
Interesting. I guess even the 5E adventure modules are also not considered canon now? This also sounds like 5e canon is now in stasis since nothing can/will overwrite the core rulebooks until a new edition is released.
They are considered 5e canon, just not "essential canon". The only thing that is essential is the most-up-to-date version of the core books. The rest of the stuff it's its own canon.
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Instead of seeking change, you prefer a void, merciless abyss of a world... |
Edited by - Zeromaru X on 30 Jul 2021 18:20:10 |
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Zeromaru X
Great Reader
Colombia
2476 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jul 2021 : 18:34:19
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quote:
Originally posted by PattPlays
[quote]You didn't miss a 4th edition novel. You missed a 5th edition novel set in the 1480's. I have absolutely no idea what came first: the Vizeran or the egg. You buy a book from a bookstore you read the Archmage series about the Rage of Demons pre-second-sundering and thus when Mystra was not fully restored and there's no weave and Netheril is still rockin around. Reading those books you evidently witness Drizz't banish Demogorgon. You buy a book from a gamestore and you play as level 1 escaped prisoners of the drow in 5th edition where Demogorgon romps around and you can banish him yourself. These two crowds don't intersect much outside of what is basically just this forum for all I can tell as an outsider. But if WOTC told people to read Salvatore's work (which very likely could have been just "the game designers made demon lord stat blocks and made this cool thing with Vizeran Devir, Llolth, and Oakenshield in it so we need you to write the novel version- OOORRR Salvatore writes Archmage and Chris Perkins is given the lore to make something unique and playable out of it and goes "this is now alice in wonderland stuff lvl 1 thru 15 and I'm gonna fill it with stuff" but also it's a part of the rage of demons multimedia escapade and the game designers of one game obviously took from Perkins who seems to have made the world engine ((or his team did)) as a unique artifact to the out of the abyss module and that world engine shows up in the mmo but in an isometric game's dlc you get to play alongside Drizz't who shoddily pantomimes his actions in the books after helping you to defeat Zyrog, who is teased in the out of the abyss adventure module where Drizz't doesn't make an appearance and you help to deal with Demogorgon without him-
Or it was just what always happens with RAS: he writes a novel with no respect to previous lore (and he can do it and nobody complaints, unlike what happens when WotC does the same thing...). It has happened before. That's why I don't like the Drizzt's novels. |
Instead of seeking change, you prefer a void, merciless abyss of a world... |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11829 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jul 2021 : 19:37:44
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
*Oh gods, I hate how WotC loves reusing book titles. Every time I have to specify which version of a particular title I'm referring to, it irritates the bejeebers out of me.
Preach brother Preach.... with as many editions as we have now, it is beginning to creep. How many draconomicons have we had now? Is it just 3 still? |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Gyor
Master of Realmslore
1625 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jul 2021 : 20:34:48
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quote:
Originally posted by Irennan
So, basically, this is the alternate timelines thingy that some people were proposing here years ago, except turned up to 11.
But done in away that makes absolutely no sense. They didn't think this through. |
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Gyor
Master of Realmslore
1625 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jul 2021 : 20:42:10
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| Screw Perkins and Crawford, this blog post is what isn't canon. |
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Gelcur
Senior Scribe
523 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jul 2021 : 20:48:27
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quote:
Originally posted by questing gm
Has anyone ever felt 'like they must read a novel, play a video game, or buy a third-edition sourcebook to enjoy our game and get the most out of our current line of products.'? Sounds to me like most of us can agree that our canon starts and ends where we want the canon to be. Has anyone actively not run or play a FR campaign until they have done their homework? (not a rhetoric, actually curious)
Who are these DMs being burdened?
I guess... me? I did not DM FR till I had done my homework. No one had DMed me in FR previously but I understood even at the time no campaign setting was quit as broad and deep as FR. I knew this because I had played all the Baldur's Gate and Icewind Dale games, turns out the creators were hardcore Forgotten Realms fans and it showed. So I began by reading the 3E FR Campaign Setting cover to cover. This made sense to me, when I started as a player I read the AD&D PHB cover to cover and again when we switched to 3E. After a bit of research I realized reading Spellfire would give me a good feel for what Ed intended. After all this I started my own campaign. Note, my plan was to run something home made and spanning much of Faerun. If my plan was to run a store bought quest I'd likely have read some of the FRCS and winged it looking up things if I needed.
Now I have no want to direct hate towards Chris Perkins, I would dare say I like the guy. I watched him DM quests online for years, and his updates of old modules seemed solid. That said, here is what goes through my head reading his post:
quote:
Originally posted by Chris Perkins
I’m Chris Perkins, one of the D&D Studio’s principal game architects.
We are starting off on a bad foot. I've been at places where titles like these started getting used, doesn't go well.
quote:
Originally posted by Chris Perkins
Our studio treats D&D in much the same way that Marvel Studios treats its properties. The current edition of the D&D roleplaying game has its own canon, as does every other expression of D&D. For example, what is canonical in fifth edition is not necessarily canonical in a novel, video game, movie, or comic book, and vice versa. This is true not only for lore but art as well.
And now you are describing how you are treating D&D like this other thing. Great for later since it is open to interpretations rather than just making a solid list of rules. Marvel Studios by the way does not encompass the comics, it only dictates Film and Television, the MCU, or Marvel Cinematic Universe. They have had varying success tying everything together but as far as I know nothing has been thrown out. It even looks like they are trying to merge back in the licenses they did not previously control using a multiverse. But maybe he meant Marvel Entertainment which controls both Comics and MCU.
quote:
Originally posted by Chris Perkins
Creatively, it’s liberating. This approach also acknowledges that different media have unique challenges and requirements.
Doing things can be hard, we don't like it when things are hard. Difficult things take more time and money.
quote:
Originally posted by Chris Perkins
It can also be said that every campaign that’s ever been run in any of our published settings has its own canon. Your version of the Forgotten Realms has its own canon, which doesn’t make it any less valid than anyone else’s version. Elminster might be a lich in your Forgotten Realms campaign. Elminster might be a miniature giant space hamster in mine—both are acceptable and awesome.
Kumbaya, no one is wrong, everyone gets a trophy. At some point you change something enough, it is no longer what it used to be.
quote:
Originally posted by Chris Perkins
Key to our approach is the belief that the story belongs to the DM and the players, not us.
Sure, unless I try to publish a work of fiction in the Forgotten Realms without Wizards, then there would be an issue.
quote:
Originally posted by Chris Perkins
We make a conscious effort to preserve as many opportunities as possible for DMs to play with their own ideas. That’s why we don't produce sourcebooks that spool out a ton of backstory. The DM or player remains the ultimate arbiter of what’s true in their expressions of D&D.
Can't we have both. Backstory that DMs and Players to choose to use if we want? It has worked well enough for so many years and previous editions.
quote:
Originally posted by Chris Perkins
we don’t want DMs or players to feel like they must read a novel, play a video game, or buy a third-edition sourcebook to enjoy our game and get the most out of our current line of products.
Money is a limited resource make sure to spend it on our new things.
quote:
Originally posted by Chris Perkins
DMs and players should be able to use our content without having to keep up on some metaplot that stretches across novels, comics, and video games.
This was mentioned already by Wooly but is worth repeating. So like Marvel? Or not like Marvel? Marvel by the way does a fairly good job of having a metaplot you do NOT need to follow to enjoy any individual movie.
quote:
Originally posted by Chris Perkins
Beyond these core rulebooks, we don’t have a public-facing account of what is canonical in fifth edition because we don’t want to overload our fellow creators and business partners.
We don't like what we inherited but we can't trust ourselves going forwards either. Plus it is hard work managing a lot of different things at once, lets just not do it.
quote:
Originally posted by Chris Perkins
Whether or not a piece of art or lore is canonical in fifth edition should have little or no bearing on how most people interact with the game. If I told you that Markham Southwell is canonically the sheriff of Bryn Shander circa 1492 DR, would that really impact your experience running or playing Icewind Dale: Rime of the Frostmaiden?
And yet for some of us, who have spent a lot of good money on that art and on that lore it does. AND some previous creators did care to put the effort to make things accurate. Is the sheriff of a town in important? Maybe. Markham Southwell is from Storm King's Thunder, maybe my players played that, maybe they RPed with him, maybe they killed him. Or maybe not. Give me the choice to use it. Sounds like some classic DM trickery here, pick left or right it doesn't matter leads to same place, no more lore.
quote:
Originally posted by Chris Perkins
Those among us who are fortunate enough to become shepherds or stewards of the D&D game must train ourselves to become art and lore experts so that we know when we’re being faithful to the game’s past and when we’re moving in a new direction.
YES! "Those who destroy knowledge, with ink, fire, or sword, are themselves destroyed." -Candlekeep's one absolute rule.
quote:
Originally posted by Chris Perkins
If the artwork or lore hasn’t withstood the test of time, we can update or discard it.
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On the other hand, if you’re familiar with old maps of Waterdeep, you might recall that one of its seedier avenues was named Slut Street. When we updated the map for Waterdeep: Dragon Heist, we gave that street a new name. The old name was never good to begin with and does not withstand the test of time.
And there we have it. Forget whether I like or dislike the changes made by Wizards. And YES I did catch the change to Slut Street. Explain it, add another layer of lore. Tell me a story as to why it changed. You want to redeem the Drow do it. But don't tell me it was always this way, which is what throwing away canon does. Make something so grand that instead of getting angry I say "well done".
quote:
Originally posted by Chris Perkins
TAKE THE 5E CANON COMMANDO QUIZ!
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No correct answers: Time to hit the books!
1 or 2 correct answers: Albuquerque is a real place, believe it or not.
3 or 4 correct answers: You are hereby permitted to apply for open positions in the D&D Studio.
All 5 answers correct: Your Canon-fu is the best.
This joke might be more telling than they intended. Your knowledge is at 3 out of 5? 60% is good enough to work at wizards.
Lets just go back to the days where the main campaign setting was "generic" so you can do whatever you want and leave the Realms alone. |
The party come to a town befallen by hysteria
Rogue: So what's in the general store?
DM: What are you looking for?
Rogue: Whatevers in the store.
DM: Like what?
Rogue: Everything.
DM: There is a lot of stuff.
Rogue: Is there a cart outside?
DM: (rolls) Yes.
Rogue: We'll take it all, we may need it for the greater good. |
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Gelcur
Senior Scribe
523 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jul 2021 : 20:53:33
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quote:
Originally posted by Gyor
Screw Perkins and Crawford, this blog post is what isn't canon.
You sir win at the internet. Congratulations on your fabulous looking grey beard. |
The party come to a town befallen by hysteria
Rogue: So what's in the general store?
DM: What are you looking for?
Rogue: Whatevers in the store.
DM: Like what?
Rogue: Everything.
DM: There is a lot of stuff.
Rogue: Is there a cart outside?
DM: (rolls) Yes.
Rogue: We'll take it all, we may need it for the greater good. |
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HighOne
Learned Scribe
216 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jul 2021 : 22:51:16
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| That quiz is just bizarre. Only five questions, two of which have obvious answers (Las Vegas and Albuquerque), and one of which is specifically about Eberron. Is it supposed to be a joke? An insult? A poke in the eye? I don't get it. |
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Irennan
Great Reader
Italy
3806 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jul 2021 : 23:57:23
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quote:
Originally posted by Zeromaru X
quote:
Originally posted by Irennan
I hope you now understand why people react to what's canon and what isn't, even though they are already ignoring what they don't like. You're doing it yourself right now.
Oh, but I'm not reacting to what's and isn't canon. I'm just happy that they made it official, that's all.
I do understand the people that is overreacting over canon, but I consider that it is an overreaction. Just go and read the very first post of this topic if you disagree with me.
But that's still a reaction to the news that 4e stuff is canon for 4e, even though you were already doing that in your games (if my understanding is correct).
Whether negative reactions are healthy or not is a different matter, but they do make sense for a variety of reasons (especially for people who don't DM).
The only way to not have a reaction to this is to drop any attachment you have to the setting/story. Even then, some stuff may very well remain dear to you, and you may still care about what they do to it. |
Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things. |
Edited by - Irennan on 30 Jul 2021 23:57:56 |
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Zeromaru X
Great Reader
Colombia
2476 Posts |
Posted - 31 Jul 2021 : 01:41:24
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quote:
Originally posted by HighOne
That quiz is just bizarre. Only five questions, two of which have obvious answers (Las Vegas and Albuquerque), and one of which is specifically about Eberron. Is it supposed to be a joke? An insult? A poke in the eye? I don't get it.
WotC are known to make fun of their "nerdy" fanbase. I remember that joke in 4e that still infuriates some people here, so I guess this is that kind of joke. You cannot be a canon lord if you don't know how many eyes has a Beholder. |
Instead of seeking change, you prefer a void, merciless abyss of a world... |
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Zeromaru X
Great Reader
Colombia
2476 Posts |
Posted - 31 Jul 2021 : 01:57:30
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quote:
Originally posted by Irennan
But that's still a reaction to the news that 4e stuff is canon for 4e, even though you were already doing that in your games (if my understanding is correct).
Whether negative reactions are healthy or not is a different matter, but they do make sense for a variety of reasons (especially for people who don't DM).
The only way to not have a reaction to this is to drop any attachment you have to the setting/story. Even then, some stuff may very well remain dear to you, and you may still care about what they do to it.
Oh, sure. I understand this. But one thing is being upset when the setting you love has been changed, and other is to be overly dramatic about.
You'll never see me saying "they destroyed the Realms" or "they had a evil intent when they changed this", even when the SCAG literally ended my longest campaign (as the players were so pissed off that Neverember became the "loved ruler of Neverwinter", that they asked me to drop the campaign...) |
Instead of seeking change, you prefer a void, merciless abyss of a world... |
Edited by - Zeromaru X on 31 Jul 2021 01:58:51 |
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Irennan
Great Reader
Italy
3806 Posts |
Posted - 31 Jul 2021 : 02:56:10
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quote:
Originally posted by Zeromaru X
quote:
Originally posted by Irennan
But that's still a reaction to the news that 4e stuff is canon for 4e, even though you were already doing that in your games (if my understanding is correct).
Whether negative reactions are healthy or not is a different matter, but they do make sense for a variety of reasons (especially for people who don't DM).
The only way to not have a reaction to this is to drop any attachment you have to the setting/story. Even then, some stuff may very well remain dear to you, and you may still care about what they do to it.
Oh, sure. I understand this. But one thing is being upset when the setting you love has been changed, and other is to be overly dramatic about.
You'll never see me saying "they destroyed the Realms" or "they had a evil intent when they changed this", even when the SCAG literally ended my longest campaign (as the players were so pissed off that Neverember became the "loved ruler of Neverwinter", that they asked me to drop the campaign...)
Kinda same difference, since each person has their own way of expressing a frustration. I understand that being overly dramatic doesn't look good, but the substance behind the reaction is very similar.
quote:
"they had a evil intent when they changed this"
Heh, not sure if I'm misunderstanding, but this seems to be specifically directed at my comments about Lady Penitent.
I didn't use that expression until Erik de Bie confirmed that, during that time, WotC did indeed see getting people to dislike Eilistraee as a win, which definitely was a malicious intent. Perkins also confirmed that that series was indeed written to make Drizzt more special, which you could count as malicious, because it amounted to getting rid of stuff that people liked (not before having distorted them into something that contradicted everything they were, at that) because the designers had a weird obsession with Drizzt and exceptionalism.
Before the conversation with Erik, I used to say that the distorted portrayal of Eilistraee in those books was intentional, because it sniped specific key lines from her writeups as well as fundamental concepts of her character, but I never said it was malicious.
So yeah, sometimes WotC designers have indeed been childish and malicious, and I don't see any wrong in pointing that out, especially to new people delving into the topic: I don't want a character that means a lot to me to be disliked due to some dudebros' weird obsession with Drizzt. |
Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things. |
Edited by - Irennan on 31 Jul 2021 03:01:12 |
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Zeromaru X
Great Reader
Colombia
2476 Posts |
Posted - 31 Jul 2021 : 04:02:07
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quote:
Originally posted by Irennan
Heh, not sure if I'm misunderstanding, but this seems to be specifically directed at my comments about Lady Penitent.
I didn't use that expression until Erik de Bie confirmed that, during that time, WotC did indeed see getting people to dislike Eilistraee as a win, which definitely was a malicious intent. Perkins also confirmed that that series was indeed written to make Drizzt more special, which you could count as malicious, because it amounted to getting rid of stuff that people liked (not before having distorted them into something that contradicted everything they were, at that) because the designers had a weird obsession with Drizzt and exceptionalism.
Before the conversation with Erik, I used to say that the distorted portrayal of Eilistraee in those books was intentional, because it sniped specific key lines from her writeups as well as fundamental concepts of her character, but I never said it was malicious.
So yeah, sometimes WotC designers have indeed been childish and malicious, and I don't see any wrong in pointing that out, especially to new people delving into the topic: I don't want a character that means a lot to me to be disliked due to some dudebros' weird obsession with Drizzt.
I don't see that as a "malicious" intent, at least not from WotC's part. That was a pure business decision based in pleasing their best-selling author's desires. Now, if there was a malicious intent, perhaps was from RAS' part, as you have mentioned he really disliked Eilistraee and wanted Drizzt to be the "Only One"™. Becase, as far as I know, that series of novels were presented as "R.A. Salvatore's War of the Spider Queen". Meaning those novels were his idea and he was the one supervising the stuff.
But I can't be sure that RAS or WotC really wanted to spit on the face of the fans out of malice. WotC only wants money and their decisions are informed by this desire, and RAS... well, I dunno.
So, as much I can only blame WotC of making an utterly dumb decision to please an author known for doing with Realmslore whatever he wants. |
Instead of seeking change, you prefer a void, merciless abyss of a world... |
Edited by - Zeromaru X on 31 Jul 2021 04:04:31 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 31 Jul 2021 : 04:06:32
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quote:
Originally posted by Irennan
Heh, not sure if I'm misunderstanding, but this seems to be specifically directed at my comments about Lady Penitent.
I didn't use that expression until Erik de Bie confirmed that, during that time, WotC did indeed see getting people to dislike Eilistraee as a win, which definitely was a malicious intent. Perkins also confirmed that that series was indeed written to make Drizzt more special, which you could count as malicious, because it amounted to getting rid of stuff that people liked (not before having distorted them into something that contradicted everything they were, at that) because the designers had a weird obsession with Drizzt and exceptionalism.
Before the conversation with Erik, I used to say that the distorted portrayal of Eilistraee in those books was intentional, because it sniped specific key lines from her writeups as well as fundamental concepts of her character, but I never said it was malicious.
So yeah, sometimes WotC designers have indeed been childish and malicious, and I don't see any wrong in pointing that out, especially to new people delving into the topic: I don't want a character that means a lot to me to be disliked due to some dudebros' weird obsession with Drizzt.
*sigh*
I hate to defend WotC, but I disagree that deliberately trying to turn people against something was being malicious. It's honestly a good strategy: if you want your vision of something to overrule a prior, different vision, you've got to either make something really awesome, and/or downplay what came before.
I'm not saying I agree with what they did; far from it. I'm just really, really reluctant to assign maliciousness when laziness or disregard for something prior is the more likely conclusion. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
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Irennan
Great Reader
Italy
3806 Posts |
Posted - 31 Jul 2021 : 04:16:09
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@ZeromaruX
RAS' involvement in WotSQ was just to make sure that everything about the drow stayed the same, he didn't do anything beyond that. It's possible that WotC was trying to please him, yes, but I don't have any confirmation of it. The only things we knows is that WotC did indeed want people to dislike Eilistraee, and that they wanted to remove her to make Drizzt "the one".
That said, wanting people to dislike a character, as well as the way they removed the character (I'm talking about all the statements of "she is not just gone, she's completely erased from the face of the universe!!!1!" and "there's no more use for her" that were in the books)... it did indeed carry doggedness in it. Yes, those statements ended up being undone and all you have, but at the time the intention was there.
Distorting the creation of another person into some perversion of what that creation was supposed to be also counts as malice in my book. They're colleagues working on the same world, on the same story, they should support each other's work, not trying to get people to dislike the work of a colleague. Wtf even is that kind of behavior? Removal is a thing, this is a whole different matter.
Yeah, you could apply Hanlon's razor (don't assume malice when you can assume stupidity), but there are too many deliberate choices here for me to assume stupidity. |
Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things. |
Edited by - Irennan on 31 Jul 2021 04:22:18 |
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Irennan
Great Reader
Italy
3806 Posts |
Posted - 31 Jul 2021 : 04:20:59
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@Wooly,
As I said, they were throwing mud on the work of their colleague (in this case, Ed) and on a character that is dear to many (I'm biased, but as far as I know Eilistraee used to be quite popular back then--not that it changes the quality of what they did, but it makes it more evident). You may call it pragmatism, however the disregard wasn't just towards the character, but also towards the creator and towards people. This counts as malice to me.
EDIT: or at very least spite. Yes, I guess this word is more appropriate to describe what I mean. |
Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things. |
Edited by - Irennan on 31 Jul 2021 07:27:55 |
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Irennan
Great Reader
Italy
3806 Posts |
Posted - 31 Jul 2021 : 04:26:01
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| Oh, Erik also commented about the snark displayed by the WotC dudebros when Brian James and Eric Menge (not the same Erik) proposed Eilistraee and Vhaeraun as archfey for the 4e Menzo book. The person in charge dismissed the two characters as mere internet memes, and just axed everything. This sounds like some heavy personal bias was involved in the matter. |
Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things. |
Edited by - Irennan on 31 Jul 2021 04:26:35 |
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PattPlays
Senior Scribe
469 Posts |
Posted - 31 Jul 2021 : 05:00:12
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quote:
Originally posted by Irennan
Oh, Erik also commented about the snark displayed by the WotC dudebros when Brian James and Eric Menge (not the same Erik) proposed Eilistraee and Vhaeraun as archfey for the 4e Menzo book. The person in charge dismissed the two characters as mere internet memes, and just axed everything. This sounds like some heavy personal bias was involved in the matter.
Yikes. Wasn't Kiaransalee also axed in a similar fashion?
Praise be to Ao for restoring all these gods to useful forms in the transition. |
:The world's greatest OOTA fan/critic: :"Powder kegs within powder kegs!": :Meta-Dimensional Cheese: :Why is the Wand of Orcus just back?: :We still don't know the nature of Souls and the Positive Energy Plane: :PC on profile, Aldritch Elpyptrat Maxinfield: :Helljumpers, Bungie.net: :Rock Hard Gladiator, RIP Fluidanim, Long Live Pluto: :IRC lives:
https://thisisstorytelling.wordpress.com
T_P_T |
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Irennan
Great Reader
Italy
3806 Posts |
Posted - 31 Jul 2021 : 05:03:23
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| She was, but at least her character wasn't distorted into some weird perversion of what she's supposed to be. |
Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things. |
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PattPlays
Senior Scribe
469 Posts |
Posted - 31 Jul 2021 : 05:34:58
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quote:
Originally posted by Irennan
She was, but at least her character wasn't distorted into some weird perversion of what she's supposed to be.
I personally found it fun to imagine some elves thinking "if we wipe out her name from the minds of her faithful, then she won't exist!" and then she returns because everyone else still remembered her and it was just a speedbump. Also Ao's restoration of the gods. |
:The world's greatest OOTA fan/critic: :"Powder kegs within powder kegs!": :Meta-Dimensional Cheese: :Why is the Wand of Orcus just back?: :We still don't know the nature of Souls and the Positive Energy Plane: :PC on profile, Aldritch Elpyptrat Maxinfield: :Helljumpers, Bungie.net: :Rock Hard Gladiator, RIP Fluidanim, Long Live Pluto: :IRC lives:
https://thisisstorytelling.wordpress.com
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Irennan
Great Reader
Italy
3806 Posts |
Posted - 31 Jul 2021 : 05:45:51
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| The ritual was supposed to erase her name from the minds of everyone, even other gods. Which was stupid for countless reasons, but yeah, this is quite common for those events, and this is not the thread for that. Regardless, Kiaransalee was indeed remembered and she returned because of that. |
Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things. |
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PattPlays
Senior Scribe
469 Posts |
Posted - 31 Jul 2021 : 06:31:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Irennan
The ritual was supposed to erase her name from the minds of everyone, even other gods. Which was stupid for countless reasons, but yeah, this is quite common for those events, and this is not the thread for that. Regardless, Kiaransalee was indeed remembered and she returned because of that.
Elves forgot about books. Pfft. |
:The world's greatest OOTA fan/critic: :"Powder kegs within powder kegs!": :Meta-Dimensional Cheese: :Why is the Wand of Orcus just back?: :We still don't know the nature of Souls and the Positive Energy Plane: :PC on profile, Aldritch Elpyptrat Maxinfield: :Helljumpers, Bungie.net: :Rock Hard Gladiator, RIP Fluidanim, Long Live Pluto: :IRC lives:
https://thisisstorytelling.wordpress.com
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3741 Posts |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11829 Posts |
Posted - 31 Jul 2021 : 15:47:39
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I'm just wondering how many of you got the canon test wrong because you assumed that Albuquerque was incorrect? AJA and I made it canon last month.
http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?whichpage=25&TOPIC_ID=22581#542611
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
quote:
Originally posted by AJA
[quote]Originally posted by sleyvas
River-Rhine?
Riverine
riv·er·ine (riv'?-rin', -ren')
adj.
1. Relating to or resembling a river.
2.
a. Located on or inhabiting the banks of a river; riparian: a riverine settlement.
b. Relating to a system of inland wetlands and deep-water habitats associated with nontidal flowing water, characterized by the absence of trees, shrubs, or emergent vegetation.
On what would have been the night of Flamerule 22 in normal times and normal places, the Dreaming Sun tacked right to avoid darkened cliffs that rose suddenly and with evil intent from the sea-bed below and sent furious waves and malevolent spirits of silver haze after them for two days and nights, until the ship and crew found themselves run aground on the shoals ringing the isle where deathless Xardr slumbered in his tumbled pyramid and the yellowed willow-maidens writhed over clear brooks lined with star-dust and skulls. It was on this island that Ammarkhan found his ring and fought for his trident and learned exactly why the willow-maidens both mourned over, and made sure to add to, their count of river skulls.
I am telling you this because if the crew of the Dreaming Sun had wanted to get to the River Rhine instead of the Riverine Ring, they shoulda taken a left turn at Albuquerque instead.
You goodsir have taught me many new words in the last 2 or 3 years in this side project of yours. I thank you for a new one.
SIDENOTE AND LITTLE KNOWN FACT: Albuquerque is the source of a major planar nexus. I believe Elminster once used it to meet up with a very sly rabbit. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11829 Posts |
Posted - 31 Jul 2021 : 15:53:03
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quote:
Originally posted by Lord Karsus
-Kiaransalee is/was a totally underused and underappreciated character. Random tangent.
May be random, but let me agree here. I really like her. I really liked the module they did in ... was it 3.5 or 3.0? |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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TheIriaeban
Master of Realmslore
USA
1289 Posts |
Posted - 31 Jul 2021 : 19:11:54
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quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
SIDENOTE AND LITTLE KNOWN FACT: Albuquerque is the source of a major planar nexus. I believe Elminster once used it to meet up with a very sly rabbit.
I lived there for several years. That explains why the state sport is drunk driving. After seeing all kinds of weird stuff pop out of that nexus, you would want a drink, too. Several of them, in fact. |
"Iriaebor is a fine city. So what if you can have violence between merchant groups break out at any moment. Not every city can offer dinner AND a show."
My FR writeups - http://www.mediafire.com/folder/um3liz6tqsf5n/Documents
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 01 Aug 2021 : 00:55:37
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quote:
Originally posted by TheIriaeban
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
SIDENOTE AND LITTLE KNOWN FACT: Albuquerque is the source of a major planar nexus. I believe Elminster once used it to meet up with a very sly rabbit.
I lived there for several years. That explains why the state sport is drunk driving. After seeing all kinds of weird stuff pop out of that nexus, you would want a drink, too. Several of them, in fact.
Maybe it was through Albuquerque that St. Sollars wound up in the Realms. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11829 Posts |
Posted - 01 Aug 2021 : 15:45:37
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by TheIriaeban
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
SIDENOTE AND LITTLE KNOWN FACT: Albuquerque is the source of a major planar nexus. I believe Elminster once used it to meet up with a very sly rabbit.
I lived there for several years. That explains why the state sport is drunk driving. After seeing all kinds of weird stuff pop out of that nexus, you would want a drink, too. Several of them, in fact.
Maybe it was through Albuquerque that St. Sollars wound up in the Realms.
Yep, Aluquerque was founded in 1706 on both our earth and the "earth" known as Ravenloft's "Masque of the Red Death" campaign. There are those who believe that undead have used that nexus to escape into our world. Some other illusion using undead have used this nexus to escape into toon town, and have since inserted themselves into some old cartoons. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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TheIriaeban
Master of Realmslore
USA
1289 Posts |
Posted - 01 Aug 2021 : 16:11:08
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quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by TheIriaeban
I lived there for several years. That explains why the state sport is drunk driving. After seeing all kinds of weird stuff pop out of that nexus, you would want a drink, too. Several of them, in fact.
Maybe it was through Albuquerque that St. Sollars wound up in the Realms.
Yep, Aluquerque was founded in 1706 on both our earth and the "earth" known as Ravenloft's "Masque of the Red Death" campaign. There are those who believe that undead have used that nexus to escape into our world. Some other illusion using undead have used this nexus to escape into toon town, and have since inserted themselves into some old cartoons.
It would be more likely that the Franciscan Missionaries from the San Miguel Mission in Santa Fe were the ones that traveled through that Nexus. That mission was built between 1605 and 1608. It may have even been founded to keep an eye on the Nexus (from a safe distance).
Today, there is the Sandia National Laboratory there to keep stuff "from just wondering in". By doing research on the Nexus, they are one of the leaders in energy research. They have a big microwave "gun" there that they supposedly use to measure radar cross sections. It's actual use is to blast anything they don't like popping in from another dimension.
Edit: I forgot to mention, if you are in the area, pop by the National Nuclear Museum (https://www.nuclearmuseum.org/) before heading off to Roswell (because, really, why would anyone be going to New Mexico, anyway. For the skiing?) |
"Iriaebor is a fine city. So what if you can have violence between merchant groups break out at any moment. Not every city can offer dinner AND a show."
My FR writeups - http://www.mediafire.com/folder/um3liz6tqsf5n/Documents
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Edited by - TheIriaeban on 01 Aug 2021 16:16:59 |
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4441 Posts |
Posted - 01 Aug 2021 : 21:50:41
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quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
quote:
Originally posted by Lord Karsus
-Kiaransalee is/was a totally underused and underappreciated character. Random tangent.
May be random, but let me agree here. I really like her. I really liked the module they did in ... was it 3.5 or 3.0?
City of the Spider Queen was a 3.0 adventure and hard as hell. Heavily invested with Kiaransalee. |
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Forgotten Realms Novels Not Canon: WotC
