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hashimashadoo
Master of Realmslore
United Kingdom
1152 Posts |
 Posted - 24 May 2021 : 01:34:44
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I listed all of these reasons. And I got a 24-hour ban and then ignored by the moderators when I asked for justification. Yours is honestly the first actual response I've gotten, other than another moderator claiming -- years later -- that I was using profanity and attacking others.
H-uh. Didn't know that part.  |
When life turns it's back on you...sneak attack for extra damage.
Head admin of the FR wiki:
https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/ |
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HighOne
Learned Scribe
216 Posts |
Posted - 24 May 2021 : 01:37:23
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quote:
Originally posted by hashimashadoo
quote:
Originally posted by HighOne
...have you ever read a movie review?
Not out loud to the movie's director in the middle of their fan club, no.
Ah, good, so you admit it's a fan club and not a forum. Not that there's anything wrong with running a fan club -- you benefit from the participation of the people whose works are being discussed. But I wouldn't expect to find much meaningful criticism in such an environment. You need looser strictures for that. |
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hashimashadoo
Master of Realmslore
United Kingdom
1152 Posts |
Posted - 24 May 2021 : 01:39:44
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quote:
Originally posted by HighOne
Ah, good, so you admit it's a fan club and not a forum.
Well, yeah. The first sentence of our 'About' section is:
"The Forgotten Realms Archives is a group specifically dedicated to the The Forgotten Realms novel line and moreso to the Forgotten Realms authors."
As for our stance on criticism, as I said to Wooly, we have specific rules against bashing the works we discuss and their authors. |
When life turns it's back on you...sneak attack for extra damage.
Head admin of the FR wiki:
https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/ |
Edited by - hashimashadoo on 24 May 2021 01:41:17 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 24 May 2021 : 01:42:57
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quote:
Originally posted by hashimashadoo
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I listed all of these reasons. And I got a 24-hour ban and then ignored by the moderators when I asked for justification. Yours is honestly the first actual response I've gotten, other than another moderator claiming -- years later -- that I was using profanity and attacking others.
H-uh. Didn't know that part.
That's why I walked away from the group. Some actual explanation -- or a warning -- would have been nice.
It's also part of the reason I won't go back. There's more to it, but it comes down to my word against someone else's, and I'm not playing that game nor going into it further, here.
I do appreciate your response, though. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
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sno4wy
Senior Scribe
USA
466 Posts |
Posted - 24 May 2021 : 02:00:46
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quote:
Originally posted by John Daker
Is this the kind of comment that proves a diversity of viewpoints is welcome here at Candlekeep, Wooly Rupert?
http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=21541
I thought you were leaving? Yet you keep coming back into this thread and dropping melodramatic comments, very much like literally every bootlicking Drizzt fanboi ever. I'm not as kind as the other members here that'll tolerate your bullshit.
Candlekeep is one of the very few places where people can express perspectives both positive and negative. Most of the time, it's the only place where people can share opinions without going to fundamentally flawed arguments like being "100% sure" in a hypothesis. If you can't handle it and must misrepresent this place as something other than what it is, you're obviously not able to handle opinions that differ from yours and should not visit forums. |
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John Daker
Seeker
USA
78 Posts |
Posted - 24 May 2021 : 02:06:32
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quote:
Originally posted by Therise
So we tend to be frustrated and cranky at times. As do all long-term followers and fans of any IP.
Frustrated and cranky I can roll with. Knives out on anyone who isn’t also frustrated and cranky, not so much. And I’ve seen too much of that around here.
The viciousness is coming from just a few people, but to me it has cast the negativity of most other contributors in a stark light. I don’t contribute here all that much, but until today I counted it as one of my favorite sites to browse, because of the intermittent participation of some of my favorite creative artists and because of the bottomless lore deep-dives possible here. I’m seeing a different side of it now, and disappointedly realizing that I’m not really shocked at that—that is, it makes sense that people who behave like I’ve seen a few people behave here today would feel at home here, because the pervasive, overall “frustrated and cranky” tone fosters that sort of thing. And while I’m much less fond of aggressive moderation than most people my age, I’m pretty amazed that some of the comments in this thread are considered acceptable by the moderator—who, to his or her credit, has engaged my concerns, even if only to insist they’re not valid. So I’m reconsidering my participation here, and getting the sense from more than a few participants that they’d be glad to see me go, although in the last page or so I’ve also been cheered to see several people, such as yourself, who are capable of treating one another with respect and who have spoken more thoughtfully about the problems I’m seeing—which is why I’m still here, trying to salvage my love of this site.
Maybe the fellow who implied this community just isn’t a good fit for me is right—but if so, it’s a tone problem, not a taste problem.
Full disclosure: I’m pretty dissatisfied with 5e, I don’t like Drizzt all that much, RAS wouldn’t make my top twenty Realms novelists, I spend way too much of my free time studying Realms lore, and I’m not especially enthusiastic about the new drow stuff that’s being teased—though it’s honestly a far, far less radical change than I figured they were going to have to make (my money was on “Drizzt uses the Netherese obelisks to time-travel and defeat Lolth for once and for all in the past, prior to the descent of the drow, so the dark elves can be completely retconned into happy rays of sunshine”). So on the merits of the case, I’m more aligned with the haters than most of them have assumed.
But if someone shows up to participate in a conversation, is met with sarcasm and scorn at every turn, says wow, the prevailing tone around here is pretty toxic, and the moderator defends that tone by saying (and I’m paraphrasing) yeah it’s toxic but it’s been that way around here forever and anyway fans everywhere are always mean little jerks—you should see how fans of stories with laser guns in them behave!—then yeah, I guess maybe I should move along. |
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Azar
Master of Realmslore
1309 Posts |
Posted - 24 May 2021 : 02:13:39
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quote:
Originally posted by Irennan
quote:
Originally posted by Azar
Well, there's the problem.
 .
I'll be blunt: this comes off as a sign that you...
So much for using a winking face to preemptively deflate tension and/or indicate a playful observation rooted in wordplay  (e.g., the same way people use the phrase "inhuman treatment" when the conversation revolves around aliens). Seriously speaking, however, there is a fine line to walk when it comes to beings such as elves; too much similarity and you end up with the stereotypical "humans with pointy ears". An elf lives for a good long while and their mindset - outside of battle or times of crisis - typically moves at a correspondingly slower pace. If an individual elf can pivot on a viewpoint as relatively swiftly as a human can and make it stick, well...you should somehow indicate that they're exceptional in that regard. |
Stand with anybody that stands right. Stand with him while he is right and part with him when he goes wrong.
Earth names in the Realms are more common than you may think. |
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John Daker
Seeker
USA
78 Posts |
Posted - 24 May 2021 : 02:16:13
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quote:
Originally posted by sno4wy
I thought you were leaving? Yet you keep coming back into this thread and dropping melodramatic comments, very much like literally every bootlicking Drizzt fanboi ever.
No one told me to leave, huh, Wooly? |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 24 May 2021 : 02:21:57
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quote:
Originally posted by John Daker
But if someone shows up to participate in a conversation, is met with sarcasm and scorn at every turn, says wow, the prevailing tone around here is pretty toxic, and the moderator defends that tone by saying (and I’m paraphrasing) yeah it’s toxic but it’s been that way around here forever and anyway fans everywhere are always mean little jerks—you should see how fans of stories with laser guns in them behave!—then yeah, I guess maybe I should move along.
That is not what I said. As I've already tried to explain to you, I was addressing your assertion that no other place had any negativity.
And I'm not defending a toxic tone or saying it's been that way forever. I said that the people you paint as having been driven off are still here, or in some cases they were trying to drive off others.
What I'm seeing right here, right now, is that you're taking everything I say out of context and judging everything on this forum by this one discussion. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 24 May 2021 : 02:24:42
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quote:
Originally posted by John Daker
quote:
Originally posted by sno4wy
I thought you were leaving? Yet you keep coming back into this thread and dropping melodramatic comments, very much like literally every bootlicking Drizzt fanboi ever.
No one told me to leave, huh, Wooly?
Tell you what -- show me where someone told you to leave.
Also, your own words implied an imminent leave-taking:
quote:
Originally posted by John Daker
But the fact is that there are other places where FR fans gather, places where the range of viewpoints isn't quite so monolithic, and where it isn't considered acceptable behavior to spew vicious ad hominem vituperation at an FR creator for pages on end.
Maybe I'll see some of you there.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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sno4wy
Senior Scribe
USA
466 Posts |
Posted - 24 May 2021 : 02:32:43
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quote:
No one told me to leave, huh, Wooly?
Telling you to leave and telling you to follow through on something that YOU said personally are two different things. The first is inciting based on nothing, the second is telling someone to not be a melodramatic tool and preserve some shred of honor. Which, by the looks of things, is out the window, given how you continue to abuse Wooly despite his font of infinite patience with you that is most assuredly not deserved. |
Edited by - sno4wy on 24 May 2021 02:33:32 |
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HighOne
Learned Scribe
216 Posts |
Posted - 24 May 2021 : 02:34:52
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quote:
Originally posted by John Daker
my money was on “Drizzt uses the Netherese obelisks to time-travel and defeat Lolth for once and for all in the past, prior to the descent of the drow, so the dark elves can be completely retconned into happy rays of sunshine”
What does it say about me that I actually like this idea?
In any case, I haven't been around here long enough to know what the prevailing mood is, but I think your concerns are valid: There's a lot of negativity in this thread; some posters are coming across as overwrought or cartoonishly rude (see above). It does seem to be the case that this community is more critical than other Forgotten Realms communities, particularly those located on newer platforms.
Coincidentally, I encountered this same divide in another fandom recently: the decades-old forum is mostly grumping and groaning, while the social media community is mostly love and adoration. It sucks when you fall somewhere between those two extremes, because neither community really fits your needs and temperament, but that's just the way it is. Communities tend to stagnate over time as one viewpoint prevails and the proponents of other viewpoints leave, either voluntarily or by force (i.e. moderation).
Also coincidentally, one of the problems I encountered in that other community was that users weren't utilizing the tools available to them to curate their experience. If another user was consistently annoying me (as was the case), I blocked them. Other users? Not so much. They just kept pounding their head against the wall that is internet arguing, continuing to engage with people who pushed their buttons when they could have just blocked them instead.
During the Usenet days, we used to have a saying: "Don't feed the trolls." If someone was spewing drivel you didn't like, then you just blocked them and moved on. So that would be my advice to you: keep the parts of Candlekeep you like and drop the rest. Block the people you don't like, and interact with the ones you do. Voila. Problem solved. |
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John Daker
Seeker
USA
78 Posts |
Posted - 24 May 2021 : 02:36:51
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| 5. Always be courteous and polite to other members...Openly attacking other members will result in the suspension of your account. |
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CorellonsDevout
Great Reader
USA
2708 Posts |
Posted - 24 May 2021 : 02:42:39
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quote:
Originally posted by John Daker
Full disclosure: I’m pretty dissatisfied with 5e, I don’t like Drizzt all that much, RAS wouldn’t make my top twenty Realms novelists, I spend way too much of my free time studying Realms lore, and I’m not especially enthusiastic about the new drow stuff that’s being teased—though it’s honestly a far, far less radical change than I figured they were going to have to make (my money was on “Drizzt uses the Netherese obelisks to time-travel and defeat Lolth for once and for all in the past, prior to the descent of the drow, so the dark elves can be completely retconned into happy rays of sunshine”). So on the merits of the case, I’m more aligned with the haters than most of them have assumed.
I hadn't even thought of that  I'm kind of surprised they haven't used those obelisks yet, outside RotFM.
To be clear (though I can only speak for myself), my negativity comes from years of that frustration--and I'm actually one of the younger fans. The most recent Drizzt books, plus the interview I linked earlier, have left a very sour taste in my mouth. Yes, I can ignore whatever I don't like, but over the last few years, more and more of what I love about the Realms is getting changed to the point it doesn't even feel like it's the Realms anymore, or it gets thrown out entirely. Yes, I am frustrated with RAS, and he comes off as very egotistical in his interviews, so he has rubbed me the wrong way, thus my criticism. He gets a lot more leeway from fans than others do--not to mention from WotC itself. |
Sweet water and light laughter |
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Gyor
Master of Realmslore
1625 Posts |
Posted - 24 May 2021 : 03:13:15
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quote:
Originally posted by CorellonsDevout
quote:
Originally posted by John Daker
Full disclosure: I’m pretty dissatisfied with 5e, I don’t like Drizzt all that much, RAS wouldn’t make my top twenty Realms novelists, I spend way too much of my free time studying Realms lore, and I’m not especially enthusiastic about the new drow stuff that’s being teased—though it’s honestly a far, far less radical change than I figured they were going to have to make (my money was on “Drizzt uses the Netherese obelisks to time-travel and defeat Lolth for once and for all in the past, prior to the descent of the drow, so the dark elves can be completely retconned into happy rays of sunshine”). So on the merits of the case, I’m more aligned with the haters than most of them have assumed.
I hadn't even thought of that I'm kind of surprised they haven't used those obelisks yet, outside RotFM.
To be clear (though I can only speak for myself), my negativity comes from years of that frustration--and I'm actually one of the younger fans. The most recent Drizzt books, plus the interview I linked earlier, have left a very sour taste in my mouth. Yes, I can ignore whatever I don't like, but over the last few years, more and more of what I love about the Realms is getting changed to the point it doesn't even feel like it's the Realms anymore, or it gets thrown out entirely. Yes, I am frustrated with RAS, and he comes off as very egotistical in his interviews, so he has rubbed me the wrong way, thus my criticism. He gets a lot more leeway from fans than others do--not to mention from WotC itself.
My Hypothsis was they would use them somehow to merge the MtG and D&D multiverses, and thqt was wrong so who knows what they plan to do with them. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 24 May 2021 : 03:14:37
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Upon reflection, this discussion has trended way more negatively than I'm entirely comfortable with.
We're lore junkies, and we are passionate about the setting -- so we react when we see what appears to be disregard for the lore and mistreatment of the setting. It's understandable.
But reacting the way we have, here, isn't a good look for us. I don't think it reflects who we are -- I think we've gotten into something of a feedback loop, with one bit of negativity feeding the next and growing a little worse, each time.
I've already removed at least one comment from this discussion. We need to tone this down, NOW.
Really, I shouldn't have let it get this far, and I do apologize for that. I'll take some of the blame.
Let's just all take a moment, a few deep breaths, maybe step away from the keyboard for a bit. Have a beer (or a cider, in my case). Watch some cat videos or something. Let's just calm down and ease back on the throttle -- because this discussion is not going in a good direction, and I don't want to have to lock it. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Gyor
Master of Realmslore
1625 Posts |
Posted - 24 May 2021 : 03:20:53
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Can we all please get back to the point of this discussion?
Personally after all the melodrama of last year, I'm going just sit make and reserve Judgement until I have alot more details.
Still things in the FR community largely felt they they'd been stuck in suspended animation since the novel line ended and with the odd interesting tid bit aside,was feeling very thin gruel, at least this interesting.
Also RA Salvatore indicted what they had plannes was addictive, not subtractive. |
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Gyor
Master of Realmslore
1625 Posts |
Posted - 24 May 2021 : 03:23:29
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Upon reflection, this discussion has trended way more negatively than I'm entirely comfortable with.
We're lore junkies, and we are passionate about the setting -- so we react when we see what appears to be disregard for the lore and mistreatment of the setting. It's understandable.
But reacting the way we have, here, isn't a good look for us. I don't think it reflects who we are -- I think we've gotten into something of a feedback loop, with one bit of negativity feeding the next and growing a little worse, each time.
I've already removed at least one comment from this discussion. We need to tone this down, NOW.
Really, I shouldn't have let it get this far, and I do apologize for that. I'll take some of the blame.
Let's just all take a moment, a few deep breaths, maybe step away from the keyboard for a bit. Have a beer (or a cider, in my case). Watch some cat videos or something. Let's just calm down and ease back on the throttle -- because this discussion is not going in a good direction, and I don't want to have to lock it.
I like to think I have been the voice of positivity and open mindedness in this thread. Still this isn't the only place where fans are losing it over this, I think the marketing has been careless in its pitch, but I think the new cities eill be fine ultimately   |
Edited by - Gyor on 24 May 2021 03:25:55 |
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HighOne
Learned Scribe
216 Posts |
Posted - 24 May 2021 : 03:25:57
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| Thank you, Wooly. Also, I couldn't find the ignore feature when I searched for it just now. Does Candlekeep not have such a feature? |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 24 May 2021 : 03:26:24
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quote:
Originally posted by CorellonsDevout
quote:
Originally posted by John Daker
Full disclosure: I’m pretty dissatisfied with 5e, I don’t like Drizzt all that much, RAS wouldn’t make my top twenty Realms novelists, I spend way too much of my free time studying Realms lore, and I’m not especially enthusiastic about the new drow stuff that’s being teased—though it’s honestly a far, far less radical change than I figured they were going to have to make (my money was on “Drizzt uses the Netherese obelisks to time-travel and defeat Lolth for once and for all in the past, prior to the descent of the drow, so the dark elves can be completely retconned into happy rays of sunshine”). So on the merits of the case, I’m more aligned with the haters than most of them have assumed.
I hadn't even thought of that I'm kind of surprised they haven't used those obelisks yet, outside RotFM.
I'm not convinced the obelisks will be used that way. A lot of what WotC has done with the 5E Realms has been to smooth over or simply not address 4E elements that were not well-received. They've not retconned any of those things as much as they've just ignored them or quietly undid them. WotC has had a lot of chances to go full retcon to remove things the fans hated, but they've worked around those things, instead.
And to be honest, I can't fault them for that. I'd love to see everything after the end of 2E retconned, with some but not all of the following events allowed to happen again while others were not repeated. Skip the War of the Spider Queen, for example, but let's do more with the Rage of Dragons (I always felt that there should have been wider repercussions from that one).
But any kind of move like that is going to destroy credibility, with a lot of folks.
So if they retconned Lolth out of existence, that's going to not only change huge portions of Realmslore, it's also going to make Drizzt just an ordinary guy. And it would also present us with lore conundrums, like "was this in the Lolth timeline or the no-Lolth timeline?"
I think the obelisks will get used in one of two ways: either as a way to introduce more non-Realms material in the setting, or as the centerpiece of an adventure where something happens in the beginning of the adventure and has to be undone by using the obelisks. The latter is the only way I can see that you'll have a major time-travel element without breaking a lot of stuff.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 24 May 2021 03:27:56 |
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Azar
Master of Realmslore
1309 Posts |
Posted - 24 May 2021 : 03:28:20
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| In your opinion, how much input should Salvatore have going forward? Does his popularity make him a setting juggernaut for the foreseeable future? |
Stand with anybody that stands right. Stand with him while he is right and part with him when he goes wrong.
Earth names in the Realms are more common than you may think. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 24 May 2021 : 03:29:54
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quote:
Originally posted by HighOne
Thank you, Wooly. Also, I couldn't find the ignore feature when I searched for it just now. Does Candlekeep not have such a feature?
We do not.
I personally wouldn't use it, if we did. There's been a couple of people that I have disagreed with here most strongly -- but they offered some wonderful fanlore that I would have missed had I ignored them. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Therise
Master of Realmslore
1272 Posts |
Posted - 24 May 2021 : 03:31:39
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quote:
Originally posted by John Daker
...So I’m reconsidering my participation here, and getting the sense from more than a few participants that they’d be glad to see me go, although in the last page or so I’ve also been cheered to see several people, such as yourself, who are capable of treating one another with respect and who have spoken more thoughtfully about the problems I’m seeing—which is why I’m still here, trying to salvage my love of this site.
I took several years away from here, so I know where you're coming from. But I also won't deny that I have some sharp knives when it comes to one or two people. We can be a contentious lot, no doubt.
Since you do love the site, remember that you share a passion for at least one or more editions of Realms material, like we all do. The other side of that love, though, can be some pretty gutting criticism. But rather than perhaps viewing Candlekeep as a typical friendly forum, think of us more as a seedy bar on the stenchstreets of Waterdeep. We all know each other, and sometimes the drunk bastards get uppity. Wooly may not slap a fine on pirate Steve every time he gets mouthy, but he will stop a brawl before it gets too bloody. Usually. Well, fairly often. 
quote:
Full disclosure: I’m pretty dissatisfied with 5e, I don’t like Drizzt all that much, RAS wouldn’t make my top twenty Realms novelists, I spend way too much of my free time studying Realms lore, and I’m not especially enthusiastic about the new drow stuff that’s being teased—though it’s honestly a far, far less radical change than I figured they were going to have to make (my money was on “Drizzt uses the Netherese obelisks to time-travel and defeat Lolth for once and for all in the past, prior to the descent of the drow, so the dark elves can be completely retconned into happy rays of sunshine”). So on the merits of the case, I’m more aligned with the haters than most of them have assumed.
I was a huge advocate for using the time travel obelisks to completely undo the Spellplague. Frankly, I wouldn't be opposed to using them to undo the gods-fall, Kelemvor, Cyric, Mystra 2.0 and all that. Some people disliked my solution so much that... well, knives were out. |
Female, 40-year DM of a homebrew-evolved 1E Realms, including a few added tidbits of 2E and 3E lore; played originally in AD&D, then in Rolemaster. Be a DM for your kids and grandkids, gaming is excellent for families! |
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Azar
Master of Realmslore
1309 Posts |
Posted - 24 May 2021 : 03:37:55
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quote:
Originally posted by Therise
undo the gods-fall
Is there still a lot of fire in the hearth for the Time of Troubles "controversy"? |
Stand with anybody that stands right. Stand with him while he is right and part with him when he goes wrong.
Earth names in the Realms are more common than you may think. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 24 May 2021 : 03:38:54
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quote:
Originally posted by Azar
In your opinion, how much input should Salvatore have going forward? Does his popularity make him a setting juggernaut for the foreseeable future?
It depends on the topic, really.
But it's not just him: I think WotC should be regularly soliciting input -- AND acting on it -- from Ed Greenwood and Eric L Boyd and George Krashos and several others that helped build this setting.
Obviously, I wouldn't expect WotC to scrap all of its plans because one of these folks said "nay!" to something, but I would like to see those folks have some involvement and help steer the setting.
For example, if told, "give us a city of ice drow and a city of forest drow" Ed would have spun several pages of wonderful lore on the spot, with none of it even appearing to contradict anything else, and Eric Boyd would have called Krash and they'd've consulted their voluminous notes and drawn myriad tiny little snippets of published Realmslore together to give us something really amazing.
That's what's so frustrating to me, to watch WotC: there are so many resources they could draw on to give us some amazing stuff, and those resources are not being used. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Therise
Master of Realmslore
1272 Posts |
Posted - 24 May 2021 : 03:42:46
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quote:
Originally posted by Azar
quote:
Originally posted by Therise
undo the gods-fall
Is there still a lot of fire in the hearth for the Time of Troubles "controversy"?
I don't know, to be honest, I've been away several years.
Probably not? But lordy I remember when it happened. Seems like fans were on that old listserv at the time, IIRC. Whoo. |
Female, 40-year DM of a homebrew-evolved 1E Realms, including a few added tidbits of 2E and 3E lore; played originally in AD&D, then in Rolemaster. Be a DM for your kids and grandkids, gaming is excellent for families! |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 24 May 2021 : 03:45:30
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quote:
Originally posted by Azar
quote:
Originally posted by Therise
undo the gods-fall
Is there still a lot of fire in the hearth for the Time of Troubles "controversy"?
Surprisingly, I do still see a lot of comments about it.
Me, I came aboard just in time for the ToT. And I was coming here from Dragonlance, which at the time hit a wall after the Twins books -- they weren't moving forward, only sideways or backward.
I came to the Realms, and the first thing I saw was a major event happening. It wasn't static! So I readily embraced it.
That said, with my opinions on some of the things since the advent of 3E, I really appreciate where the anti-ToT people are coming from. I don't agree with them, but I think a lot of us have our own "this was great up until THIS happened" point -- and not just with the Realms, either. Trekkies have that, Star Wars fans have that, BattleTech fans (since I mentioned that fandom earlier) have that, I'm sure Doctor Who fans have regular battles over which Doctor was better... It's the nature of fandom: at some point, it changes too much and we put on the brakes. |
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HighOne
Learned Scribe
216 Posts |
Posted - 24 May 2021 : 04:16:01
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quote:
Originally posted by Therise
I was a huge advocate for using the time travel obelisks to completely undo the Spellplague. Frankly, I wouldn't be opposed to using them to undo the gods-fall, Kelemvor, Cyric, Mystra 2.0 and all that. Some people disliked my solution so much that... well, knives were out.
When the power of the obelisks was first revealed, my wish was that Wizards would design an adventure that ends with the protagonists going back in time to undo some historical event without revealing what that event is. So it's left up to the readers/players to decide how the world has changed as a result, and suddenly all fanon becomes canonical, because any DM can say that their alternative world was born of the changes wrought by the obelisks.
"Yeah, the world was different up until 1493 DR, but then someone went back in time and changed history, and my campaign world was born..."
Of course, a DM can already do this, but Wizards putting their rubberstamp on the idea might make a lot of otherwise reluctant people jump on board. It would also absolve Wizards of trying to please so many disparate groups. Don't like the Spellplague? Obelisks! Don't like the Time of Troubles? Obelisks! Don't like the descent of the drow? Obelisks, obelisks, obelisks!
Of course, for this really to work, Wizards would need to stop progressing the timeline, because you can't do that without canonizing one history. But I get the sense that they already want to do that. They've said before that there's no more meta-plot, and they cancelled the novel line, so the world has sort of stagnated anyway. Bring on the obelisks, I say. |
Edited by - HighOne on 24 May 2021 04:17:48 |
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Zeromaru X
Great Reader
Colombia
2476 Posts |
Posted - 24 May 2021 : 04:21:23
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| Cancelling the novel line implies no Drizzt novels as well. Oh, look, there is yet another Drizzt novel in the near future... |
Instead of seeking change, you prefer a void, merciless abyss of a world... |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 24 May 2021 : 04:30:51
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quote:
Originally posted by Zeromaru X
Cancelling the novel line implies no Drizzt novels as well. Oh, look, there is yet another Drizzt novel in the near future...
But it's not WotC publishing it. I'm honestly curious to know who approached who, on farming that one out.
And once upon a time, the novel line consisted of more than just one character. |
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Upcoming changes to drow
