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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
 Posted - 06 Jun 2023 : 00:21:16
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Why not a no-name? An unknown, fresh out of acting school or a stage/theatre company? All of the famous names started off as no-names.
Oh yes. No-names aren't recognized by the audience, the marketing, the investors. Chris Pine all over the trailers and posters certainly brings in audiences who would never normally watch a nerdy D&D-based movie. |
[/Ayrik] |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jun 2023 : 03:28:32
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Just finished watching this and it was fun!
Two thumbs up for sure.
Was it on par with mega-movies...no; but it wasn't a B movie either!
All around good fun.
I don't even have a gripe. |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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BileDemon
Acolyte
14 Posts |
Posted - 17 Oct 2023 : 12:52:33
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Did finally have the possibility to watch it and - damn, what a let-down. This movie is really stupid. Even Uwe Boll´s "Dungeon Siege" movie with Jasom Statham did a better job, and that says a lot.
My main issue is that the main characters weren´t really likeable. We have the never-ever-stopping-to-talk bard who doesn´t fight(so, the typical beta male they want to shove down our throats in Hollywood) and the ass-kicking female warrior(same here). Yeah, totally logic, a leather-clad 1,65m Letty beats up armored warrios with a stone and bare fists. Michelle Rodriguez might make a good thug in the FF films(who have become a parody of themselves anyway) but not as a barbarian.
Also, it seems they couldn´t make their mind up if it should be a serious film or a comedy. So they went with comedy despite the rather dramatic background(dead wive and estranged child).
The effects were also silly and looked cheap, even Harry Potter movies from 20 years ago make them look dated. Heck, even Szass Tam(with very short screen time) looked like Voldemort.
The whole story was hamfisted anyway.
TBH the only enjoyable sight here was the cute Sophia Lillis as Tiefling.
I would also have liked to see a really bloody fight here, but it seems they tuned it down for the rating.
Just my 2 cents.
Overall it felt like a waste of time. |
Edited by - BileDemon on 17 Oct 2023 14:37:42 |
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_Jarlaxle_
Senior Scribe
Germany
584 Posts |
Posted - 17 Oct 2023 : 13:29:41
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Did you unironically just use the expression "beta male"?
:D :D
At least that makes me glad, that your opinion on the movie is the complete oposite of mine. |
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BileDemon
Acolyte
14 Posts |
Posted - 17 Oct 2023 : 14:42:35
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Indeed, in my book this is the fitting term. I would have preferred a Conan-like character. Like Wulfgar, a 2,10m man who can crush his opponents skull with bare hands.
Well, to each his own.
On a side-note, as you are from Germany too, maybe it was also just me but I really cringed when they used these translations like "Harfners" or "Nieglut". |
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Delwa
Master of Realmslore
USA
1271 Posts |
Posted - 17 Oct 2023 : 15:15:58
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I've watched it a couple times now, figured I'd come drop my two cp.
It was fun, enjoyable, and all around what I'd expected given the promotional material that we were being fed to set expectations. It had all the lore Easter Eggs of Peter Jackson's Lord of the Rings, but with all the seriousness of Guardians of the Galaxy. I saw it the first time with my girlfriend, long time DnD player, but still green to the Forgotten Realms lore, and she enjoyed it a lot, started asking questions, and it got her reading some of my old sourcebooks. Just went straight to my shelf and picked up Code of the Harpers and dived in.
Did a watch party with my players for the movie. Their DnD and Realmslore experience spans seasoned vets to total newbies, and they all got a great laugh out of the film. Many "totally done that" and "hey, <player name> you totally should try that" moments, and tons of lore questions as well.
Point is, it got my guys talking and diving into the lore the film drew from, however accurately or inaccurately it may have done so, and that makes this DM happy. I've got one or two players that will actually read lore info out of game, but this movie spurred the rest of them to start researching out of game, and that's made play infinitely more fun. So I'm calling it a win. |
- Delwa Aunglor
I am off to slay yon refrigerator and spoil it's horde. Go for the cheese, Boo!
"The Realms change; seldom at the speed desired of those who strive, but far too quickly for those who resist." - The Simbul, taken from the Forgotten Realms Campaign Conspectus |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 17 Oct 2023 : 22:59:52
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quote:
Originally posted by Delwa
I've watched it a couple times now, figured I'd come drop my two cp.
It was fun, enjoyable, and all around what I'd expected given the promotional material that we were being fed to set expectations. It had all the lore Easter Eggs of Peter Jackson's Lord of the Rings, but with all the seriousness of Guardians of the Galaxy. I saw it the first time with my girlfriend, long time DnD player, but still green to the Forgotten Realms lore, and she enjoyed it a lot, started asking questions, and it got her reading some of my old sourcebooks. Just went straight to my shelf and picked up Code of the Harpers and dived in.
Glad she liked it! |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
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Werthead
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
191 Posts |
Posted - 18 Oct 2023 : 22:11:34
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| Code of the Harpers is a good one to dive into, it also details Moonrise Towers, which is a huge location in the other massive FR-boosting release this year, Baldur's Gate III. |
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Giant Snake
Seeker
80 Posts |
Posted - 01 Nov 2023 : 16:59:56
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| I thought it was great! Some parts were hilarious like the halfling who is in to big strong womenMaybe a little too much humor in some places (I didn’t like the roly poly dragon) but the lighthearted tone suited the ragtag band of rogues. The ending was satisfying too. |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 01 Nov 2023 : 18:22:32
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quote:
Originally posted by Giant Snake
I thought it was great! Some parts were hilarious like the halfling who is in to big strong womenMaybe a little too much humor in some places (I didn’t like the roly poly dragon) but the lighthearted tone suited the ragtag band of rogues. The ending was satisfying too.
The zombies feed on brains. Brains, brains! They examine and ignore the party, just moving along in search of brain food somewhere else. It becomes obvious the whole encounter was just a setup for this weak throwaway joke, the levity is completely out of place (why would the director/editor throw a cheap joke between "serious" scene?), it basically shatters investment and immersion, it's just bad a storytelling choice, a clumsy blunder.
The speak-with-dead-three-questions joke got old and tired fast, somehow they flubbed the delivery and just dragged the scene out instead of pushing the adventure and the narrative forward.
The puny-little-man-with-big-strong-women joke was funny. I think because (aside from some "eye language") it was not given any direct acknowledgement by the characters or the dialogue.
The fat dragon was just sad. It's hard to take anything seriously when it's turned into a childish cartoon. It could've been funny but the way it was done just made me think I was watching Shrek and Donkey run from the Fairytale Dragon. |
[/Ayrik] |
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Werthead
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
191 Posts |
Posted - 03 Nov 2023 : 23:33:42
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| Themberchaud was an absolute unit in the film because that's how he's been portrayed in the source material since his first appearance in Out of the Abyss. It's not even his first appearance in a visual medium, he previously showed up near the end of the Sword Coast Legends video game, when he was also pretty rotund (not as much as in the movie, but still larger than your average dragon). |
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Giant Snake
Seeker
80 Posts |
Posted - 04 Nov 2023 : 03:05:11
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| To me the way the characters had to come up with creative solutions to get out of situations is really what makes the movie work. Really enjoyed seeing it on the screen and how it’s good lateral thinking. |
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Gord
Acolyte
Canada
14 Posts |
Posted - 02 Dec 2023 : 14:19:25
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I lived this film and Chris Pine announced the other day a sequel is very likely. He was an exec. producer on Honor Among Thieves.
A whole bunch of world building was going on too. If we get more FR films, there may need a new section on these boards.
So many of the early FR novels would make great films. All the following trilogies, Icewind Dale, Avatar, Findersstone, Moonshae. The Songs and Swords series would be my favorite to see though. Followed by Icewind. |
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Azar
Master of Realmslore
1309 Posts |
Posted - 02 Dec 2023 : 14:43:57
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quote:
Originally posted by Gord
I lived this film and Chris Pine announced the other day a sequel is very likely. He was an exec. producer on Honor Among Thieves.
A whole bunch of world building was going on too. If we get more FR films, there may need a new section on these boards.
So many of the early FR novels would make great films. All the following trilogies, Icewind Dale, Avatar, Findersstone, Moonshae. The Songs and Swords series would be my favorite to see though. Followed by Icewind.
I'd hate to see any of those novels filtered through a modern lens. |
Stand with anybody that stands right. Stand with him while he is right and part with him when he goes wrong.
Earth names in the Realms are more common than you may think. |
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Seravin
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1288 Posts |
Posted - 02 Dec 2023 : 15:49:03
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It's just that Hollywood seems incapable of sticking to source material lately, so if they adapt something the screen play writers inevitably think they're better than the original authors whose IP they have been given, and the modifications they make are always for the worse. See The Witcher series, Wheel of Time series, last few seasons of Game of Thrones, etc
So I share trepidation of adapting early FR novels to the big screen, even if I really want to see Alias and Danilo and Regis on my screen. I know a lot of fans may revolt if they race swap or gender swap some characters to make movies more diverse casting choices (despite it being a fantasy setting with other humanoid races), but I don't care about that as long as the story remains close to the source material.
I forget, did Honor Among Thieves depict a dark elf? I need to google that. I could see dark elves being problematic on the big screen. |
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Azar
Master of Realmslore
1309 Posts |
Posted - 02 Dec 2023 : 16:10:32
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quote:
Originally posted by Seravin
So I share trepidation of adapting early FR novels to the big screen, even if I really want to see Alias and Danilo and Regis on my screen. I know a lot of fans may revolt if they race swap or gender swap some characters to make movies more diverse casting choices (despite it being a fantasy setting with other humanoid races), but I don't care about that as long as the story remains close to the source material.
Personally, I don't like any casting changes; if I read that a character was a certain way, I want to see that character depicted that certain way on the silver screen. Bigwigs desperate to fulfill a quota can use existing characters that already fit their criteria or - and here's a radical concept - create new characters for new stories. It's not a complicated subject...unless you are affording the bellyaching of spectators (i.e., non-fans) more importance than it deserves.
However, I was also considering the attention span differences between then (the late 1980s) and now (the 2020s); you can bet your bottom dollar that there would be a glut of unnecessary spectacle, CGI and "coolness" (the artificial unearned sort). Elements will be condensed, reworded or removed altogether in order to pander to the LCD. Then, there's that godawful Marvelesque humor that has crept into everything.
quote:
Originally posted by Seravin
I could see dark elves being problematic on the big screen.
In what way? |
Stand with anybody that stands right. Stand with him while he is right and part with him when he goes wrong.
Earth names in the Realms are more common than you may think. |
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Gord
Acolyte
Canada
14 Posts |
Posted - 02 Dec 2023 : 17:00:28
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quote:
Originally posted by Seravin
It's just that Hollywood seems incapable of sticking to source material lately, so if they adapt something the screen play writers inevitably think they're better than the original authors whose IP they have been given, and the modifications they make are always for the worse. See The Witcher series, Wheel of Time series, last few seasons of Game of Thrones, etc
So I share trepidation of adapting early FR novels to the big screen, even if I really want to see Alias and Danilo and Regis on my screen. I know a lot of fans may revolt if they race swap or gender swap some characters to make movies more diverse casting choices (despite it being a fantasy setting with other humanoid races), but I don't care about that as long as the story remains close to the source material.
I forget, did Honor Among Thieves depict a dark elf? I need to google that. I could see dark elves being problematic on the big screen.
Hollywood doesn't seem to want to pay anyone either. But you never know. If the new films remain successful, we may get some of those books on the screen.
As for Dark Elf, they're grey now as opposed to black. That's what the Drizzt figure was that Hasbro put out. And I am all for it in the films too. Will save a bunch of backlash and of course we got grey dwarves and gnomes in the Underdark, so it makes sense. |
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Seravin
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1288 Posts |
Posted - 02 Dec 2023 : 17:34:39
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| I think the problem is depicting a dark skinned race that is almost exclusively evil inherently. From what reddit tells me, Drizzt and other dark elves were supposed to be in the Honor Among Thieves movie but it was pulled for that reason. Unless I missed something, no dark elves in the film at all. |
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Azar
Master of Realmslore
1309 Posts |
Posted - 03 Dec 2023 : 08:09:43
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quote:
Originally posted by Gord
As for Dark Elf, they're grey now as opposed to black.
Page 1 of Homeland ->
quote:
He had no light to guide him, but he needed none. He was a dark elf, a drow, an ebony skinned cousin of those sylvan folk who danced under the stars on the world’s surface.
There is no ambiguity here. An Orwellian retroactive alteration to decades of lore in order to appease people unable to separate fantasy from reality is flat-out wrong.
quote:
Originally posted by Seravin
I think the problem is depicting a dark skinned race that is almost exclusively evil inherently. From what reddit tells me, Drizzt and other dark elves were supposed to be in the Honor Among Thieves movie but it was pulled for that reason. Unless I missed something, no dark elves in the film at all.
One superficial characteristic when nothing else about the Drow resembles humanity? They sound...superficial (or, rather, are worried about superficial observers who take a single glimpse and form their judgements right on the spot). |
Stand with anybody that stands right. Stand with him while he is right and part with him when he goes wrong.
Earth names in the Realms are more common than you may think. |
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Seravin
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1288 Posts |
Posted - 03 Dec 2023 : 10:19:30
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No arguments from me, just the real world environment has reached our adaptations to avoid controversy. Thankfully they're unable to go back and re-write the old novels and sourcebooks, as I agree with you that people should be able to separate a fictional race of demi-humans from any real world race connotations. The argument is that the fantasy races being evil AND dark skinned is rooted in real world historical depictions (think golliwogs in Noddy), even if drow had no connection to anything real world.
You can see how a movie studio trying to make a successful movie would steer clear and keep drow out of their movie altogether, rather than piss off purist fans who want ebony drow or piss off people who don't like depictions of dark skinned humanoids being evil in their media. So until they solve this (likely by using a showcased grey or purple skinned Drizzt to say not all drow are bad along with Menzo), we probably won't see drow in the live action media. |
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Gord
Acolyte
Canada
14 Posts |
Posted - 03 Dec 2023 : 12:28:50
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quote:
Originally posted by Azar
quote:
Originally posted by Gord
As for Dark Elf, they're grey now as opposed to black.
Page 1 of Homeland ->
[quote]He had no light to guide him, but he needed none. He was a dark elf, a drow, an ebony skinned cousin of those sylvan folk who danced under the stars on the world’s surface.
Yes, I read the books and haave been playing D&D since the early 80's.
As I said, he's grey skinned now. As in the action figures and I'm sure if Drow are portrayed in film they will be grey skinned also.
They won't be changing that in the already published novels now.
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Edited by - Gord on 03 Dec 2023 12:30:03 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 03 Dec 2023 : 18:50:12
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quote:
Originally posted by Seravin
No arguments from me, just the real world environment has reached our adaptations to avoid controversy. Thankfully they're unable to go back and re-write the old novels and sourcebooks, as I agree with you that people should be able to separate a fictional race of demi-humans from any real world race connotations.
Sure they can. Drizzt's age was retconned years ago -- he was originally stated to be over 200 years old. Later printings of the novel changed that to match the Dark Elf trilogy. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Seravin
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1288 Posts |
Posted - 03 Dec 2023 : 22:17:16
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| Oh wow - I know of course they retcon things in FR all the time, but I didn't know the later prints changed the wording in the original books. Weird. At least we have our original books; I don't think you can even legally watch things like the original Star Wars trilogy without the "special edition" changes unless you have access to a VCR. |
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Athreeren
Learned Scribe
144 Posts |
Posted - 04 Dec 2023 : 05:57:50
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There was a live-action sketch recently that was sponsored content, all around Drizzt. I'm guessing the company that made the corresponding video game thought that this colour of skin (grayish purple) would not get them cancelled (and indeed, the comments are positive on the character design). So it seems that tone of skin works. After all, Star Trek has gotten away with a whole Pantone catalogue of human-like aliens, so as long as "drow" does not mean "dark elf", it should be fine.
I think part of the problem is that when you look at the old illustrations, the design of drow took a lot of inspiration from the trope of the African savage (with dark brown skin, even though the description clearly did not say that). Whatever they do to change the way they look, people will still point out those drawings to argue that the writers just made the minimum of changes to get away with using their racist tropes. Even if the "minimum of changes" is changing absolutely everything about the species. |
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Gord
Acolyte
Canada
14 Posts |
Posted - 04 Dec 2023 : 10:03:53
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| Well to give a real world example. Zwarte Piet is a person from Dutch Christmas folklore. He accompanies Santa and goes up and down chimneys covering himself in soot. And that's how he's depicted, covered in soot. He isn't evil or dark in anyway, but the United Nations Committee on the Elimination of Racial Discrimination has labeled his image as being racist. |
Edited by - Gord on 04 Dec 2023 10:04:54 |
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Giant Snake
Seeker
80 Posts |
Posted - 09 Dec 2023 : 00:49:08
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| There’s no getting around the Drow when they’re one of the defining bits of any d and d lore as opposed to all other fantasy. The highest of high elves are the same way with extreme stratification they just don’t do sacrifices and unpaid internships. I don’t pay attention to consultants and Pharisees and for that reason I’m never really worried. Hope to see Drizzt break the real actual haters and unfairs IRL by appearing and making them look feckless and bullying. |
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Azar
Master of Realmslore
1309 Posts |
Posted - 20 Dec 2023 : 12:32:08
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If this is supposed to be a complete retcon...fine. We can ignore all of those literary references (along with accompanying illustrations), game supplement descriptions (ditto), CRPGs, trading cards, comic books, miscellaneous promotional materials and so on and so forth. We have always been at war with Eastasia.
However, if this is the way they are now while the past is still officially recognized (insofar as it brings in those coppers, anyhow), then that gives rise to a big question. What is the reasoning? If the head honchos actually gave a fig, they have the perfect in-setting excuse: the rift within the Seldarine. The Drow became what they are because of betrayal instigated their monarch and an ensuing divine curse. Correllon - or some other sufficiently potent cosmic force - could reverse the curse...at least, to an extent. Unfortunately, this would require Wizards to acknowledge a very particular bit of canon and that is not likely to happen any time soon. So, there is no artistic merit to this change.
I then thought in more pragmatic terms: rules (specifically, game rules). After much trying, I arrived at the conclusion that there is no mechanically-based reason to take the Dark Elves down the Smurf and Skeeter route. Maybe I have my blinders on here, but as far as game balance goes, any justification would be quarter-assed at best.
Simply put, we are dealing with optics. Too many people who are either unwilling to look or incapable of looking beyond one surface detail (simultaneously ignoring the eyes, the ears, the face, the hair, the build/height, et cetera) while sidestepping the longevity factor, disregarding the affinity for magic and completely missing the culture plus religion have bellyached and Wizards caved. Chances are a good chunk of them are cheerleaders from the sidelines who have no interest in actually playing D&D or getting immersed in setting lore (because, if they did, a modicum of brainpower would show that the Drow are a fantastic* race untethered to reality).
Capitulation is harmful in at least two ways. By affording power to people who are stretching harder than Reed Richards (either because they are bored or because they are in some way profiting by pandering to a point-of-view), they are lending legitimacy to similar claims. Not only are developers going to be walking on eggshells when it comes to monsters (including, yes, but also beyond mere pigmentation, to be clear), but so are DMs and players; incidentally, folks who have no problems with longstanding races as-is are going to encounter insults and be stared at askance.
Furthermore, as these races are heavily scrutinized in this context, an especially human frame of reference is encouraged (perhaps even enforced). In other words, they are squeezed into the confines of anthropocentrism because of a strong implication if not outright assertion that they must be regarded as an analog of or allegory for humanity. A narrow interpretation for narrow minds. Good grief...as if these creations have not already been made too familiar in recent years; elves in general have been watered down (i.e., turned into humans with pointy ears and attendant human physiognomy) and orcs/half-orcs are losing their bestial nature by being rendered increasingly conventionally attractive**. The magic is getting sucked out. Unreality is being diminished. That is boring.
Worry not, for not all is grim. We can count on Wizards to deal with the "problematic" portrayal of standard unicorns as good and their Stygian kin as evil. While they are tackling related pressing issues, they can speak to manufacturers of the arcane to redesign their popular line of clothing (they would not want to give the impressionable any ideas). Finally, perhaps they can hire a PR firm to help evil gods (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6) distance themselves from their popular chromatic-themed appellations.
* "fantastic" as in "rooted in fantasy" and not "cool". Although, if you dig the Drow, more power to you.
** Is it not ironic that the lesson of acceptance/tolerance as it pertains to the inhuman is lost in these attempts to make them more outwardly appealing to humans? |
Stand with anybody that stands right. Stand with him while he is right and part with him when he goes wrong.
Earth names in the Realms are more common than you may think. |
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Giant Snake
Seeker
80 Posts |
Posted - 24 Dec 2023 : 17:32:03
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| Elves were never boring just as humans were never boring. It just would be the problem of the writer or the dm running that particular game. I am good with neither good nor evil elf being in the movie because I want there to be an element of mystery. They’re better when they’re rarer. Now getting the Dwarf right if they have a contrasting Duergar themed enemy in a new movie? That could totally rock. You have the guys who are always good up against the dreary kind of evil. |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11829 Posts |
Posted - 29 Dec 2023 : 14:34:07
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So, rather than start a new thread...
Something just happened this year that happened last year around Christmas ... at which point I found out that it was for a new movie (i.e. the Honor Among Thieves movie).
So, I went to walmart, and there amongst all the marked down wrapping paper were several rolls of D&D wrapping paper. I thought for a second that they were just leftovers from last year, but I noted that there was no owlbear on them. So, I bought all 3 rolls that I saw, and took two from each year to keep as keepsakes and told my wife to use the roll from each year for my presents next year. So, I'm posting this here because.... wondering is there another movie in the works? I will say I thoroughly enjoyed the last, even if there were certain things that did suspend my belief.
I'll also add.... if they do do another one... they absolutely should keep doing the easter egg of showing the original cartoon characters appearing in the background. I'd recommend this time though actually giving them some lines and maybe even hint to them doing "something" with some of the other characters that were created for this cartoon (i.e. Kelek, Venger, Warduke, Strongheart, etc...). So many of us loved this homage. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
Edited by - sleyvas on 29 Dec 2023 14:44:55 |
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Gyor
Master of Realmslore
1625 Posts |
Posted - 31 Dec 2023 : 21:12:06
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quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
So, rather than start a new thread...
Something just happened this year that happened last year around Christmas ... at which point I found out that it was for a new movie (i.e. the Honor Among Thieves movie).
So, I went to walmart, and there amongst all the marked down wrapping paper were several rolls of D&D wrapping paper. I thought for a second that they were just leftovers from last year, but I noted that there was no owlbear on them. So, I bought all 3 rolls that I saw, and took two from each year to keep as keepsakes and told my wife to use the roll from each year for my presents next year. So, I'm posting this here because.... wondering is there another movie in the works? I will say I thoroughly enjoyed the last, even if there were certain things that did suspend my belief.
I'll also add.... if they do do another one... they absolutely should keep doing the easter egg of showing the original cartoon characters appearing in the background. I'd recommend this time though actually giving them some lines and maybe even hint to them doing "something" with some of the other characters that were created for this cartoon (i.e. Kelek, Venger, Warduke, Strongheart, etc...). So many of us loved this homage.
Chris Pine has heard rumours that are planning a sequel, but nothing solid, but he seems confidant that it's going to be coming.
Also there is a live action D&D TV show in the works at Paramount, delayed by the strikes, with different characters, we should at least learn more next year. |
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Dungeons & Dragons movie in the Forgotten Realms!
