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Demzer
Senior Scribe
873 Posts |
 Posted - 22 Jul 2022 : 19:53:05
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quote:
Originally posted by Zeromaru X
At the very least the "common races. There are like 5 protagonists. An elf and a dwarf wouldn't have been a problem.
I think Michelle Rodriguez (the barbarian) is supposed to be a dwarf? Not sure |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jul 2022 : 21:08:14
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quote:
Originally posted by Zeromaru X
At the very least the "common races. There are like 5 protagonists. An elf and a dwarf wouldn't have been a problem.
But that would invite comparisons to the Lord of the Rings movies.
Me, I don't see the issue of having a mostly human group shown in a world where humans outnumber most of the other races put together. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6643 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jul 2022 : 00:06:36
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quote:
Originally posted by Zeromaru X
At the very least the "common races. There are like 5 protagonists. An elf and a dwarf wouldn't have been a problem.
The druid character looks like an elf. Or a half-elf.
-- George Krashos |
"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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TheIriaeban
Master of Realmslore
USA
1289 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jul 2022 : 00:16:13
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quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
quote:
Originally posted by Zeromaru X
At the very least the "common races. There are like 5 protagonists. An elf and a dwarf wouldn't have been a problem.
The druid character looks like an elf. Or a half-elf.
-- George Krashos
I thought the same until I noticed her horns (they kinda blend in with her hair). And while elves are evil, they do not have horns. |
"Iriaebor is a fine city. So what if you can have violence between merchant groups break out at any moment. Not every city can offer dinner AND a show."
My FR writeups - http://www.mediafire.com/folder/um3liz6tqsf5n/Documents
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PattPlays
Senior Scribe
469 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jul 2022 : 02:39:29
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| People claim the druid is a tiefling. |
:The world's greatest OOTA fan/critic: :"Powder kegs within powder kegs!": :Meta-Dimensional Cheese: :Why is the Wand of Orcus just back?: :We still don't know the nature of Souls and the Positive Energy Plane: :PC on profile, Aldritch Elpyptrat Maxinfield: :Helljumpers, Bungie.net: :Rock Hard Gladiator, RIP Fluidanim, Long Live Pluto: :IRC lives:
https://thisisstorytelling.wordpress.com
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7966 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jul 2022 : 02:44:58
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Zeromaru X
At the very least the "common races. There are like 5 protagonists. An elf and a dwarf wouldn't have been a problem.
But that would invite comparisons to the Lord of the Rings movies.
Me, I don't see the issue of having a mostly human group shown in a world where humans outnumber most of the other races put together.
Comparisons with Middle Earth could be good or bad, depending on how carefully they depicted these races and their roles. LotR fandoms and D&D fandoms tend to overlap a lot, for obvious reasons.
Too many exotics makes everybody interchangeable, nothing intrinsically remarkable to set their species apart. Guardians of the Galaxy had green, blue, red, yellow people - nothing particularly special about any of them aside from their colour-themed attire.
I, for one, am quite pleased to have some D&D(ish) fantasy fiction which isn't packed full of elves. Even if dwarves and orcs are equally lacking.
Strange that they would choose to make one of the party a tiefling, of all things. But then again, players (in "human dominated" campaigns) often make choices which are even stranger. |
[/Ayrik] |
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Kelcimer
Learned Scribe
USA
136 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jul 2022 : 03:06:23
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First I knew of this movie was watching the trailer yesterday. I didn't even know that "Honor Amongst Thieves" (HAT) was supposed to be Forgotten Realms until I found this thread. I was considering it a point in the movies favor that they were not going to go with an established setting. As it is, I am glad that "Forgotten Realms" is not in the title.
I agree an earlier point made, that a faithful adaptation of the Realms should really be done as animation.
quote:
Originally posted by SaMoCon
Here's a question for the scribes & readers here - what would be the benchmark for a FR movie to be considered "good."
It needs to be simultaneously a) be entertaining as a movie, b) not contradict any of the setting material, and c) not interfere with the setting material. Basically do no harm and don't do anything that can't be fairly easily ignored by DM's using whatever version of the setting that is being used by the movie.
I'm not expecting the world from HAT. I think it will be a fun popcorn flick. They are leaning into the whole "iconic bad plot" of "players got hired by the bad guy and now have to fix things". I hate that plot and have never employed it myself. That said, it is a plot that a lot of lazy DMs have used. It is an iconic plot for a reason. They seem to be having fun with the material, so I am okay with them using that plot. The actors look like they fit the world for the most part. The paladin doesn't. He feels like he just graduated from high school and is standing behind the counter at his first job. Kinda would have liked the barbarian to be a strapping, but if she is the only nod to the woke, then that should be fine. The special effects are fine. I have found myself watching the trailer about four times now. It feels like it is going to be a fun ride.
Do I have any expectations of it as a FR movie? Not really.
I expect them to use the setting material to the degree they need to in order to have a fun romp. I do hope that any portrayal of deities and priests is handled well. That's about it.
I am not going to be upset with them if they diverge from the setting material otherwise, because, well, in my own game I have diverged from the setting material quite a bit. This is just some other DM's idea of what Forgotten Realms is. it will be interesting to see how they handle it. |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7966 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jul 2022 : 04:01:30
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quote:
Originally posted by Kelcimer
I agree an earlier point made, that a faithful adaptation of the Realms should really be done as animation.
With all the CGI they've shown, this movie already is essentially an animation. |
[/Ayrik] |
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Kelcimer
Learned Scribe
USA
136 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jul 2022 : 17:21:21
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quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
With all the CGI they've shown, this movie already is essentially an animation.
I have never understood equating CGI to animation. For clarity, an excellent example of animation is "An American Tail". You wouldn't confuse "An American Tail" with CGI. |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7966 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jul 2022 : 22:06:44
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quote:
I have never understood equating CGI to animation. For clarity, an excellent example of animation is "An American Tail". You wouldn't confuse "An American Tail" with CGI.
Jar-Jar Binks is an excellent example of why I consider photorealistic computer renders to be animations. |
[/Ayrik] |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4685 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jul 2022 : 23:04:27
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quote:
Originally posted by Kelcimer
quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
With all the CGI they've shown, this movie already is essentially an animation.
I have never understood equating CGI to animation. For clarity, an excellent example of animation is "An American Tail". You wouldn't confuse "An American Tail" with CGI.
computer generated imagery
is just moving cartoons generated by computer programs as opposed to the old fashion way of paper and ink by a person.
Even the definition of CGI states: "Computer-Generated Imagery, abbreviated as CGI, creates still or animated visual content with computer software.".
In any event it is defined as a animation tool, logic tends to suggest that the produced product should be considered an animated one. |
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Zeromaru X
Great Reader
Colombia
2442 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jul 2022 : 02:16:20
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
But that would invite comparisons to the Lord of the Rings movies.
This is nonsensical. D&D is basically LotR with more additions. D&D even has discount hobbits as a core race, even if they make no sense in any non-Tolkienian work. There are going to be comparisons, elves in the main cast or not. |
Instead of seeking change, you prefer a void, merciless abyss of a world... |
Edited by - Zeromaru X on 25 Jul 2022 02:17:57 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jul 2022 : 02:48:25
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quote:
Originally posted by Zeromaru X
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
But that would invite comparisons to the Lord of the Rings movies.
This is nonsensical. D&D is basically LotR with more additions. D&D even has discount hobbits as a core race, even if they make no sense in any non-Tolkienian work. There are going to be comparisons, elves in the main cast or not.
There are going to be comparisons, true -- but the average movie-goer doesn't think of D&D as "Lord of the Rings with some more stuff added in." The last thing you want them to do is sit down to watch this movie and immediately say "oh, this is a rip-off of Lord of the Rings." |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7966 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jul 2022 : 03:07:16
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"Normal" people can usually tell the difference between Star Wars and Star Trek. And if they can't then they don't care anyways.
I think it's reasonable to expect "normal" people can tell the difference between Middle Earth and D&D. And if they can't ... it hardly matters anyhow, their lack of interest will make their comparisons lack depth and insight.
There's elves, dwarves, orcs, dragons, giants, swords, and sorcery in plenty of other shows and movies. Fantasy. Mythology.
Is a movie like Willow a ripoff of Tolkien? Is a movie like Hellboy a ripoff of D&D? |
[/Ayrik] |
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Azar
Master of Realmslore
1285 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jul 2022 : 01:59:52
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| It's a self-fulfilling prophecy: "Dungeons & Dragons is goofy - because, uh, we say so - so let's not take this proposed Dungeons & Dragons film seriously." Between all of the officially published settings and their accompanying novels, it is certainly possible to create at least one good Dungeons & Dragons film which is serious in tone. By the way...given how much modern day consumers love grimdark, a pay-per-view television series based on the War of the Spider Queen books could really rake in the bucks. |
Stand with anybody that stands right. Stand with him while he is right and part with him when he goes wrong.
Earth names in the Realms are more common than you may think. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jul 2022 : 02:46:07
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quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
"Normal" people can usually tell the difference between Star Wars and Star Trek. And if they can't then they don't care anyways.
I think it's reasonable to expect "normal" people can tell the difference between Middle Earth and D&D. And if they can't ... it hardly matters anyhow, their lack of interest will make their comparisons lack depth and insight.
There's elves, dwarves, orcs, dragons, giants, swords, and sorcery in plenty of other shows and movies. Fantasy. Mythology.
Is a movie like Willow a ripoff of Tolkien? Is a movie like Hellboy a ripoff of D&D?
The thing is, setting-wise, there are a lot of similarities between Middle-Earth and the Realms, or Middle-Earth and almost any other fantasy setting. And unless great pains are taken to say "this setting is different!" and put it in the movie-goers' faces, they're really not going to pay attention to the setting. Who cares about the background, compared to the characters and story? Sure, the background is an important element, but it's also the background -- it's not the thing people are paying attention to.
So if you decide you want a movie with some humans and just one dwarf and just one elf, people are going to compare it to the only other big-name fantasy movie they've seen, that also had just one dwarf and just one elf and some humans. It's a natural comparison.
Most of the people going to see this movie will have never heard of Willow, and a fair number of them won't know a thing about Hellboy. But Lord of the Rings, they'll know and have seen. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Azar
Master of Realmslore
1285 Posts |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jul 2022 : 05:19:20
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quote:
Originally posted by Azar
Are we forever limited by the lowest common denominator?
I would say that going with what's been done before would be sticking with the lowest common denominator.
The Realms has elves and dwarves, sure -- just like every other fantasy setting. Half-elves, though, those are not as common outside of D&D. Tieflings, those are very specific to D&D. Half-orcs, dragonborn, any of the other lizard-looking folks -- those aren't seen very oft outside of D&D, either.
No movie can possibly show everything the Realms has to offer, and that applies to the many intelligent peoples of the settings. Why stick with the same old stuff when we can show people something they've not seen before?
The owlbear is also showing non-D&D people something new. I know a lot of folks are bitching about how this doesn't stick to some arbitrary ruleset -- but it's something unique to D&D, it's something new to wow the non-D&D viewers, and it just plain looks cool.
That's how you get butts in seats. You have to get the viewer's attention. And I've got more than one friend that's never rolled a D20 that has watched this trailer and wants to see more.
This is what happens when you don't cater to the lowest common denominator by showing them things they've already seen before. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Azar
Master of Realmslore
1285 Posts |
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BadCatMan
Senior Scribe
Australia
401 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jul 2022 : 06:22:31
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If anyone's interested, I've been extensively documenting the movie's production, story rumors, and news in an article on the Forgotten Realms Wiki:
https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Honor_Among_Thieves
Us wiki editors have also compiled a timestamped list of our observations, identifications of Realmslore, and other clues here; it's probably the most detailed around:
https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Forum:Honor_Among_Thieves_trailer_breakdown
But most significantly, I rolled another natural 20 on a Search check and came across a small piece of the movie's script, dated to 2020. While I can't confirm its veracity, it is convincing and everything in it was borne out by the trailer and recent news. It has minor spoilers I won't spill here, but it does namedrop Elminster!
https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Forum:Honor_Among_Thieves_script_leak
I previously identified a scene set in the town of Triboar (specifically the Tower of the Lord Protector), and the synopsis I started this thread with last year has been turned out to be completely correct. So I feel pretty pleased with myself. :D |
BadCatMan, B.Sc. (Hons), M.Sc.
Scientific technical editor
Head DM of the Realms of Adventure play-by-post community
Administrator of the Forgotten Realms Wiki |
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Azar
Master of Realmslore
1285 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jul 2022 : 06:29:16
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| The lowest common denominator includes the least intelligent, least attentive and least patient people in a given population; someone who glances at a trailer for a Forgotten Realms film, notes an elf and/or dwarf and then produces the eminently insightful observation of "It's Lord of the Rings." does not sound like an individual worth courting. Inserting attention-grabbing monster races, showy magic (including explosions...because those need to be fit in, somehow) and trendy Marvel-esque quips sounds like pandering to the LCD. |
Stand with anybody that stands right. Stand with him while he is right and part with him when he goes wrong.
Earth names in the Realms are more common than you may think. |
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PattPlays
Senior Scribe
469 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jul 2022 : 08:57:57
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quote:
Originally posted by BadCatMan
If anyone's interested, I've been extensively documenting the movie's production, story rumors, and news in an article on the Forgotten Realms Wiki:
https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Honor_Among_Thieves
Us wiki editors have also compiled a timestamped list of our observations, identifications of Realmslore, and other clues here; it's probably the most detailed around:
https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Forum:Honor_Among_Thieves_trailer_breakdown
But most significantly, I rolled another natural 20 on a Search check and came across a small piece of the movie's script, dated to 2020. While I can't confirm its veracity, it is convincing and everything in it was borne out by the trailer and recent news. It has minor spoilers I won't spill here, but it does namedrop Elminster!
https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Forum:Honor_Among_Thieves_script_leak
I previously identified a scene set in the town of Triboar (specifically the Tower of the Lord Protector), and the synopsis I started this thread with last year has been turned out to be completely correct. So I feel pretty pleased with myself. :D
Holga: I suppose that's fair — are you eating ashes?
Doric: Yes. I'm a tiefling.
What is this writing  |
:The world's greatest OOTA fan/critic: :"Powder kegs within powder kegs!": :Meta-Dimensional Cheese: :Why is the Wand of Orcus just back?: :We still don't know the nature of Souls and the Positive Energy Plane: :PC on profile, Aldritch Elpyptrat Maxinfield: :Helljumpers, Bungie.net: :Rock Hard Gladiator, RIP Fluidanim, Long Live Pluto: :IRC lives:
https://thisisstorytelling.wordpress.com
T_P_T |
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Gyor
Master of Realmslore
1621 Posts |
Posted - 21 Aug 2022 : 22:10:04
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| This movie is going to make a ton and money which means alot more D&D movies. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jan 2023 : 04:54:00
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I saw some of the action figures for the movie, at Target, the other day. They weren't bad, but didn't impress me, either.
According to the blurb on the side of the box, "Simon is a half-elf sorcerer, and a descendant of the great wizard Elminster Aumar, but lacks the self-confidence to fully control the wild magic running thought his veins and unlock his great potential."
Holga's blurb said she's from the Uthgardt Elk tribe.
And "Forge is a human rogue, and currently the Lord of Neverwinter." |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Azar
Master of Realmslore
1285 Posts |
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Scots Dragon
Seeker
United Kingdom
86 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jan 2023 : 16:09:14
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quote:
Originally posted by Azar
Simon could have shades of the "Mary Sue".
Not really. Elminster's so prolific I'm surprised he doesn't have his own specific sorcerer bloodline by now. |
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HighOne
Learned Scribe
214 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jan 2023 : 16:28:05
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quote:
Originally posted by Azar
The lowest common denominator includes the least intelligent, least attentive and least patient people in a given population
Guess who movies are made for.
Movies don't get made without a producer. A producer wants a return on their investment. That means selling tickets, and selling tickets means pandering to the lowest common denominator.
The only thing the producer cares about is how many people reach into their wallets. And they have final say over everything. |
Edited by - HighOne on 24 Jan 2023 16:35:08 |
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Azar
Master of Realmslore
1285 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jan 2023 : 17:12:07
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quote:
Originally posted by Scots Dragon
quote:
Originally posted by Azar
Simon could have shades of the "Mary Sue".
Not really. Elminster's so prolific I'm surprised he doesn't have his own specific sorcerer bloodline by now.
"Related to a famous/powerful figure." is a fairly common conceit with that sort of character; though it's not necessarily a guarantee, I would consider it a warning sign this early in the game. Then, there's the fact that he's a sorcerer while E is a wizard.
quote:
Originally posted by HighOne
quote:
Originally posted by Azar
The lowest common denominator includes the least intelligent, least attentive and least patient people in a given population
Guess who movies are made for.
There are exceptions. I will grant that any work featuring a moderate or higher amount of CGI tends to cheapen its premise in order to recoup the production cost. |
Stand with anybody that stands right. Stand with him while he is right and part with him when he goes wrong.
Earth names in the Realms are more common than you may think. |
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Scots Dragon
Seeker
United Kingdom
86 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jan 2023 : 20:34:49
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quote:
Originally posted by Azar
quote:
Originally posted by Scots Dragon
quote:
Originally posted by Azar
Simon could have shades of the "Mary Sue".
Not really. Elminster's so prolific I'm surprised he doesn't have his own specific sorcerer bloodline by now.
"Related to a famous/powerful figure." is a fairly common conceit with that sort of character; though it's not necessarily a guarantee, I would consider it a warning sign this early in the game. Then, there's the fact that he's a sorcerer while E is a wizard.
Guess what happens when you get enough arcana in a family line?
The concept of 'sorcerer born to a family of wizards' is such a common one it's basically the assumed origin of quite a few sorcerers, including a few of the 3e sorcerers in the Realms. Notably Tzigone from the Counselors and Kings series.
Being related to a major character doesn't make someone a Mary Sue. Hell, the fact that Simon clearly isn't even remotely the main character of the story, since the actual protagonist would be Chris Pine's bard character. |
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Azar
Master of Realmslore
1285 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jan 2023 : 22:38:33
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quote:
Originally posted by Scots Dragon
Being related to a major character doesn't make someone a Mary Sue.
As I said -> "though it's not necessarily a guarantee". It is, however, a frequent literary shorthand to convey that "This character is awesome.". without putting in as much work. Anyhow, time will tell. |
Stand with anybody that stands right. Stand with him while he is right and part with him when he goes wrong.
Earth names in the Realms are more common than you may think. |
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Dungeons & Dragons movie in the Forgotten Realms!
