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Azar
Master of Realmslore
1309 Posts |
 Posted - 11 Apr 2021 : 05:49:32
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Hello hello.
I remember someone here (Wooly Rupert, maybe?) talking about Moander and how it is best used as a threat via a possible resurrection...the impetus for a quest to stop evil...as opposed to an actual active malefactor. That got me thinking: what other elements of the Realms are best left/used as forever potentialities? Most of these prospects are - I assume - detrimental to civilization, but it is certainly possible that at least a few lofty goals are effectively impossible to realize yet are still worth striving towards.
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Stand with anybody that stands right. Stand with him while he is right and part with him when he goes wrong.
Earth names in the Realms are more common than you may think. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36805 Posts |
Posted - 11 Apr 2021 : 16:16:59
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I always felt Myrkul had more potential as an intelligent artifact than as a returned god.
I also feel that the Thayan civil war would have had orders of magnitude more roleplaying possibilities if it had wound up a long-term conflict between Zsass Tam's faction at home and a Thay-in-Exile faction abroad.
The reclaiming of Myth Drannor also could have had years of role-play potential, instead of the "okay, it's a viable city again" thing. |
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3743 Posts |
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4441 Posts |
Posted - 11 Apr 2021 : 20:36:54
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quote:
Originally posted by Lord Karsus
-Always preferred the murderer of Ilsevele Miratar to have been left an unsolved mystery instead of being dryly revealed.
Um,...when did this happen? Last I checked, after dumb City of Shade fell onto Myth Drannor she and Fflar led their people to Semberholme?
As as far as Myth Drannor's reclamation, it was far from over and only small sections of the city were said to have been restored. Consider Garen Hulmaster as he went back to Myth Drannor and helped his Bladesinger friend clear out some old cellars that were blocked off because they were possibly inhabited by monsters - and that was in the 1470's DR, almost a full century after Ilsevele had been crowned Coronal. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36805 Posts |
Posted - 11 Apr 2021 : 21:58:44
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quote:
Originally posted by Diffan
As as far as Myth Drannor's reclamation, it was far from over and only small sections of the city were said to have been restored. Consider Garen Hulmaster as he went back to Myth Drannor and helped his Bladesinger friend clear out some old cellars that were blocked off because they were possibly inhabited by monsters - and that was in the 1470's DR, almost a full century after Ilsevele had been crowned Coronal.
Yeah, but the trilogy that covers the Reclamation had it as a habitable city just 5 years later.
And the FRCG backs that up, on page 156:
quote:
Myth Drannor is essentially a city-state, one that has been largely restored to its old beauty. The city features flourishing glades, wide forest meadows, cobbled roads, and stately buildingsboth free-standing structures and those incorporated into the boughs and canopy of Cormanthor Forest. The population of Myth Drannor is mostly eladrin, though a few thousand elves also call the city home.
A repaired mythal firmly seals the citys numerous old portals and prevents planar intrusions (even, ironically, from the Feywild). Current Myth Drannor is smaller than its ancient footings; large stretches of pristine forest now make up whole districts. These woods squat over haunted regions of restless undead and deadly trapsmany, but not all, fully cleared out.
The book also speaks of alliances with neighbors and says, on the same page as the other quote, "The new Myth Drannor is not as powerful or widespread as the realm that fell in the Year of Doom (714 DR), but its still the strongest state between Sembia and Thay."
So there were still dangerous areas, but it was otherwise a restored city.
One of the things the Lost Mythal novels indicated was that the fey'ri just came in and mostly cleared out all the threats, which would explain how the restoration happened so quickly... Of course, I personally think it implausible that the fey'ri could have really done that much, but it's canon that they did.
Personally, if it had been up to me, the fey'ri would have basically made themselves a walled enclave among the ruins -- big enough to hold them, but not much bigger than that. A few blocks, perhaps. Then, when the elves kicked them out, the elves would have repurposed that same enclave for themselves, and used it as a base for further excursions into the ruins. They would make their own trips into the ruins and aim adventurers at other spots, slowly expanding the safe areas. I see this as taking decades, if not a full century, given the damage to Myth Drannor and its mythal and the centuries of lying in ruin. |
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4441 Posts |
Posted - 11 Apr 2021 : 22:59:37
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| Was there any indication of the mass amount of monsters that were in the ruins or just supposition based on a few novels? I do have the 2e sourcebook Ruins of Myth Drannor, but I haven't given it much perusal honestly. I wonder if it might be in there? I'm not sure what part of the novel mentions the city being habitable 5 years later, I'll have to go back and reread the Last Mythal trilogy. I guess it really depends on what and how many monsters were really there in the Ruins before Ilsevele got there and finished what the Fey'ri started. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36805 Posts |
Posted - 11 Apr 2021 : 23:19:46
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quote:
Originally posted by Diffan
Was there any indication of the mass amount of monsters that were in the ruins or just supposition based on a few novels? I do have the 2e sourcebook Ruins of Myth Drannor, but I haven't given it much perusal honestly. I wonder if it might be in there? I'm not sure what part of the novel mentions the city being habitable 5 years later, I'll have to go back and reread the Last Mythal trilogy. I guess it really depends on what and how many monsters were really there in the Ruins before Ilsevele got there and finished what the Fey'ri started.
As I recall, the Knights of Myth Drannor were formed, in part, to protect people from the dangers of the ruins.
And the box set made it pretty clear it was not a spot for a picnic. Unstable magic, hostile critters of all types including baatezu, phaerimm, alhoon (illithid liches), naga, a lich who was in the city when it fell... And then of course there's the standard stuff like ogres and gargoyles and undead.
Basically, there's a reason the city was empty for 600 years.
The Last Mythal books basically brushed all that to the side and just had the fey'ri take over with no mention of real opposition -- other than the temple of Lathander that they destroyed. The novels set this temple within the city, but the boxed set makes it clear it was well outside the city.
The epilogue of the trilogy is where were see Myth Drannor portrayed like it was any other city. |
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3743 Posts |
Posted - 12 Apr 2021 : 23:55:13
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quote:
Originally posted by Diffan
quote:
Originally posted by Lord Karsus
-Always preferred the murderer of Ilsevele Miratar to have been left an unsolved mystery instead of being dryly revealed.
Um,...when did this happen? Last I checked, after dumb City of Shade fell onto Myth Drannor she and Fflar led their people to Semberholme?
-Meant Aravae Irithyl. |
(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know)
Elves of Faerūn
Vol I- The Elves of Faerūn
Vol. III- Spells of the Elves
Vol. VI- Mechanical Compendium |
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Azar
Master of Realmslore
1309 Posts |
Posted - 14 Apr 2021 : 05:54:46
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
The reclaiming of Myth Drannor also could have had years of role-play potential, instead of the "okay, it's a viable city again" thing.
Mystery is its own reward.
That sentiment aside, I can't help but wonder if this development was brought about by the crowding of the Realms. |
Stand with anybody that stands right. Stand with him while he is right and part with him when he goes wrong.
Earth names in the Realms are more common than you may think. |
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Storyteller Hero
Learned Scribe
USA
329 Posts |
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Shadowsoul
Senior Scribe
Ireland
705 Posts |
Posted - 23 Apr 2021 : 13:18:32
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Myth Drannor always had so much potential but of course like with everything the novels to handwave stuff to the side.
I also hate how cities like Hillsfar and it's ruler Malthiir get treated. Dorry but still bitter about that whole time jump nonsense. |
Fantasy is escapist, and that is its glory. If a soldier is imprisioned by the enemy, don't we consider it his duty to escape?. . .If we value the freedom of mind and soul, if we're partisans of liberty, then it's our plain duty to escape, and to take as many people with us as we can!
#8213; J.R.R. Tolkien
*I endorse everything Dark Wizard says*. |
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Zeromaru X
Great Reader
Colombia
2476 Posts |
Posted - 23 Apr 2021 : 15:59:34
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Wasn't Hillsfar the paradise for racists and racial supremacists since 1e/2e, tho?
Anyways, I have always thought that the Realms has more potential during the 4e Realms, because those time periods is where it feels the players have a chance to be the real protagonists of the story and not just the NPCs' flunkies... |
Instead of seeking change, you prefer a void, merciless abyss of a world... |
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Shadowsoul
Senior Scribe
Ireland
705 Posts |
Posted - 23 Apr 2021 : 18:30:54
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quote:
Originally posted by Zeromaru X
Wasn't Hillsfar the paradise for racists and racial supremacists since 1e/2e, tho?
Anyways, I have always thought that the Realms has more potential during the 4e Realms, because those time periods is where it feels the players have a chance to be the real protagonists of the story and not just the NPCs' flunkies...
Unless your PC's were a part of a novel you always had the choice of them being whatever they wanted to be. 4th Edition had nothing to do with that, it's been there since the beginning.I'm curious as to how previous editions kept your players from being the protagonists? |
Fantasy is escapist, and that is its glory. If a soldier is imprisioned by the enemy, don't we consider it his duty to escape?. . .If we value the freedom of mind and soul, if we're partisans of liberty, then it's our plain duty to escape, and to take as many people with us as we can!
#8213; J.R.R. Tolkien
*I endorse everything Dark Wizard says*. |
Edited by - Shadowsoul on 23 Apr 2021 18:32:22 |
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Zeromaru X
Great Reader
Colombia
2476 Posts |
Posted - 23 Apr 2021 : 19:03:13
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Too many uber NPCs wandering about. Granted, that doesn't stop me to just not use them and problem solved, but my DMing style is (or was) "by the book", as I didn't had that many time for homebrewing. And my players also took what was written even more seriously than myself, so they just keep asking "why Drizz't/Laeral/Elminster/etc. aren't solving this adventure?". They themselves felt as if their PCs didn't matter because the sole existence of such NPCs.
In 4e there is a by the book answer for that: they are either weakened, incapacitated or dead. There were no goody uber NPCs in 4e. It was up to the players to solve stuff. Sadly, the uber NPCs returned with 5e... |
Instead of seeking change, you prefer a void, merciless abyss of a world... |
Edited by - Zeromaru X on 23 Apr 2021 19:04:55 |
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Azar
Master of Realmslore
1309 Posts |
Posted - 24 Apr 2021 : 00:57:02
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quote:
Originally posted by Zeromaru X
Too many uber NPCs wandering about. Granted, that doesn't stop me to just not use them and problem solved, but my DMing style is (or was) "by the book", as I didn't had that many time for homebrewing. And my players also took what was written even more seriously than myself, so they just keep asking "why Drizz't/Laeral/Elminster/etc. aren't solving this adventure?". They themselves felt as if their PCs didn't matter because the sole existence of such NPCs.
In 4e there is a by the book answer for that: they are either weakened, incapacitated or dead. There were no goody uber NPCs in 4e. It was up to the players to solve stuff. Sadly, the uber NPCs returned with 5e...
The lore of the Realms up until - oh - D&D 3e/3.5e was damn good. Seeing most of that rich history/geographical detail being extirpated with the advent of 4e was a gut-wrenching experience. |
Stand with anybody that stands right. Stand with him while he is right and part with him when he goes wrong.
Earth names in the Realms are more common than you may think. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36805 Posts |
Posted - 24 Apr 2021 : 01:27:09
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quote:
Originally posted by Zeromaru X
Too many uber NPCs wandering about. Granted, that doesn't stop me to just not use them and problem solved, but my DMing style is (or was) "by the book", as I didn't had that many time for homebrewing. And my players also took what was written even more seriously than myself, so they just keep asking "why Drizz't/Laeral/Elminster/etc. aren't solving this adventure?". They themselves felt as if their PCs didn't matter because the sole existence of such NPCs.
In 4e there is a by the book answer for that: they are either weakened, incapacitated or dead. There were no goody uber NPCs in 4e. It was up to the players to solve stuff. Sadly, the uber NPCs returned with 5e...
It's always been up to the PCs to fix stuff. There's a few dozen "uber NPCs" in the setting, compared to millions (if not far more) other folks.
You don't need to blow up the setting to fix a problem that doesn't exist. You just need to apply a little logic. |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Zeromaru X
Great Reader
Colombia
2476 Posts |
Posted - 24 Apr 2021 : 01:36:28
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Why to fix something when the equivalent of the Justice League exist in this world? Like, yes, the players can kill a bunch of kobolds, but for stuff like the demon princes, the Shade, Tiamat, the not-Huns, etc., the burden is for Elminster and friends. Why sent a bunch of lv. 10 adventures to deal with Orcus when Elminster, Drizz't and the others are like lv. 40 or something, Chosen of the gods and whatnot? Is really a joke to do so. Or so my players say.
The problems is in their minds, I guess. But the fact that WotC officially killed or weakened the NPCs was reassuring for them. They now know why sent those lv. 10 adventures: there are no other high leveled guys around. |
Instead of seeking change, you prefer a void, merciless abyss of a world... |
Edited by - Zeromaru X on 24 Apr 2021 01:38:02 |
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Qilintha
Seeker
76 Posts |
Posted - 24 Apr 2021 : 03:16:10
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I am sorry but your reasoning is just wrong. Justice League would assume El, Drizz't , Laeral are do-gooders... They aren't , they follow their ( Mystra's in the CHosen cases) agendas. They're not by any means the deus ex machina of good. They almost never act by themselves but often use proxies ( Harpers, adventurers and so on) otherwise if Justice League barges in, the Injustice League comes as well ...and Faerun is destroyed or a confrontation that Mystra doesn't want happens. Demons have plans that work in the hundreds of years. El or Blackstaff or whoever way to go is almost always " why not use 10 level PCs to remove a small plague before it becomes a real threat?" That's how, quite often, the "Justice League" works. Ed stated so for sure, unless it's truly something Realm-shaking, Elminster spends most of the time, learning/creating new spells, creating magical objects he crafted and placing them in ancient tombs for people to find. He is one of the guardians of the Weave not a guardian of Faerun. Speaking on DC terms, he is not a member of the Justice League but more like a member of the Council of Elders, he watches the world going on but very rarely intervenes directly.
Your argument is like : why cops exist if the Justice League exists?
Besides they're not ubiquitous or omniscient, if the adventure is built properly any DM can find a ton of excuses for them not being aware or interested of the problem. So as Wooly said in much shorter words, the problem didn't exist to begin with.
To remain in topic: Always fascinated by the Imaskari and Jhaamadth, a real shame it's always Netheril when there have been two others incredibly magic powerful empires in the history of Faerun that we know...almost nothing about. |
Edited by - Qilintha on 24 Apr 2021 03:18:14 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36805 Posts |
Posted - 24 Apr 2021 : 04:59:08
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quote:
Originally posted by Qilintha
To remain in topic: Always fascinated by the Imaskari and Jhaamadth, a real shame it's always Netheril when there have been two others incredibly magic powerful empires in the history of Faerun that we know...almost nothing about.
I have a particular fascination with Jhaamdath, myself.
I'd love to find out that somewhere on Toril there was a Jhaamdathi equivalent of Halruaa -- a group of psionicists decided they didn't like the direction the nation was going in, and found themselves a new home, elsewhere, where they have quietly lived ever since. |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Azar
Master of Realmslore
1309 Posts |
Posted - 24 Apr 2021 : 06:40:50
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A pre-4e/5e idea I have in mind is the possible need to resurrect Amaunator. There are three moon-based goddesses (Selune, Sehanine Moonbow and Eilistraee)...so why not two sun gods  ? |
Stand with anybody that stands right. Stand with him while he is right and part with him when he goes wrong.
Earth names in the Realms are more common than you may think. |
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Shadowsoul
Senior Scribe
Ireland
705 Posts |
Posted - 24 Apr 2021 : 12:40:51
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quote:
Originally posted by Zeromaru X
Why to fix something when the equivalent of the Justice League exist in this world? Like, yes, the players can kill a bunch of kobolds, but for stuff like the demon princes, the Shade, Tiamat, the not-Huns, etc., the burden is for Elminster and friends. Why sent a bunch of lv. 10 adventures to deal with Orcus when Elminster, Drizz't and the others are like lv. 40 or something, Chosen of the gods and whatnot? Is really a joke to do so. Or so my players say.
The problems is in their minds, I guess. But the fact that WotC officially killed or weakened the NPCs was reassuring for them. They now know why sent those lv. 10 adventures: there are no other high leveled guys around.
D&D isn't a comicbook so your logic doesn't hold any water. Unless any NPC in the Forgotten Realms is somehow a real being that has the ability to place itself in all of your adventures against your wishes your reasoning is rubbish. Now someone can correct me if I'm wrong but I can't recall an adventure saying this can't be completed unless Elminster does it for you. As a DM you have the power to use these NPC's anyway you want. Your adventures do no affect the overall canon of the world so why does it matter? 1st and 2nd edition had everything spot on as to how the lore should be written but that was all undone and then half arsed replaced by 2 editions. |
Fantasy is escapist, and that is its glory. If a soldier is imprisioned by the enemy, don't we consider it his duty to escape?. . .If we value the freedom of mind and soul, if we're partisans of liberty, then it's our plain duty to escape, and to take as many people with us as we can!
#8213; J.R.R. Tolkien
*I endorse everything Dark Wizard says*. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36805 Posts |
Posted - 24 Apr 2021 : 16:16:03
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quote:
Originally posted by Azar
A pre-4e/5e idea I have in mind is the possible need to resurrect Amaunator. There are three moon-based goddesses (Selune, Sehanine Moonbow and Eilistraee)...so why not two sun gods ?
The issue is that those three are all different pantheons. In the Faerūnian pantheon, having Lathander and Amaunator both is redundant.
Though I'd not have an issue with another sun god in another pantheon. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 24 Apr 2021 16:16:18 |
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4441 Posts |
Posted - 24 Apr 2021 : 20:14:31
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quote:
Originally posted by Zeromaru X
Why to fix something when the equivalent of the Justice League exist in this world? Like, yes, the players can kill a bunch of kobolds, but for stuff like the demon princes, the Shade, Tiamat, the not-Huns, etc., the burden is for Elminster and friends. Why sent a bunch of lv. 10 adventures to deal with Orcus when Elminster, Drizz't and the others are like lv. 40 or something, Chosen of the gods and whatnot? Is really a joke to do so. Or so my players say.
The problems is in their minds, I guess. But the fact that WotC officially killed or weakened the NPCs was reassuring for them. They now know why sent those lv. 10 adventures: there are no other high leveled guys around.
I get what you're saying and to me, it does make sense. I think a LOT of this comes from the over-saturation of NPCs during 3e/3.5 reign where we're given levels and stats of just about every single person mentioned from your small 70 person Thorpe to your thousands of people in Waterdeep.
When you have to go out of your way as to explain why X, Y, and Z person isn't there dealing with this threat when they have just as must or more stake in the area, it might become problematic. |
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Shadowsoul
Senior Scribe
Ireland
705 Posts |
Posted - 25 Apr 2021 : 01:46:33
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quote:
Originally posted by Diffan
quote:
Originally posted by Zeromaru X
Why to fix something when the equivalent of the Justice League exist in this world? Like, yes, the players can kill a bunch of kobolds, but for stuff like the demon princes, the Shade, Tiamat, the not-Huns, etc., the burden is for Elminster and friends. Why sent a bunch of lv. 10 adventures to deal with Orcus when Elminster, Drizz't and the others are like lv. 40 or something, Chosen of the gods and whatnot? Is really a joke to do so. Or so my players say.
The problems is in their minds, I guess. But the fact that WotC officially killed or weakened the NPCs was reassuring for them. They now know why sent those lv. 10 adventures: there are no other high leveled guys around.
I get what you're saying and to me, it does make sense. I think a LOT of this comes from the over-saturation of NPCs during 3e/3.5 reign where we're given levels and stats of just about every single person mentioned from your small 70 person Thorpe to your thousands of people in Waterdeep.
When you have to go out of your way as to explain why X, Y, and Z person isn't there dealing with this threat when they have just as must or more stake in the area, it might become problematic.
I've been playing D&D since 1985 and I've never had anyone ask why such and such NPC didn't handle things. I think this is over exaggerated and a poor excuse. |
Fantasy is escapist, and that is its glory. If a soldier is imprisioned by the enemy, don't we consider it his duty to escape?. . .If we value the freedom of mind and soul, if we're partisans of liberty, then it's our plain duty to escape, and to take as many people with us as we can!
#8213; J.R.R. Tolkien
*I endorse everything Dark Wizard says*. |
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Zeromaru X
Great Reader
Colombia
2476 Posts |
Posted - 25 Apr 2021 : 02:08:54
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quote:
Originally posted by Qilintha
I am sorry but your reasoning is just wrong.
Not my reasoning, my player's reasoning. My only problem was to find belivable explanations for why Drizzt Do'Urden wasn't saving Neverwinter when the NCS says he has a camp in Castle Never...
And sure, cops are there to deal with regular criminals (kobolds), not to deal with Lex Luthor or Darkseid...
quote:
Originally posted by Shadowsoul
D&D isn't a comicbook so your logic doesn't hold any water. Unless any NPC in the Forgotten Realms is somehow a real being that has the ability to place itself in all of your adventures against your wishes your reasoning is rubbish. Now someone can correct me if I'm wrong but I can't recall an adventure saying this can't be completed unless Elminster does it for you. As a DM you have the power to use these NPC's anyway you want. Your adventures do no affect the overall canon of the world so why does it matter? 1st and 2nd edition had everything spot on as to how the lore should be written but that was all undone and then half arsed replaced by 2 editions.
Oh, sure, there is no adventure saying that Elminster must save the world. There are players, however, feeling that their immersion is broken when this Good NPC is not present saving the world, when he is more powerful than any of them. They are Good guys, is their responsibility to save the world. Or at least, that's what my players think. |
Instead of seeking change, you prefer a void, merciless abyss of a world... |
Edited by - Zeromaru X on 25 Apr 2021 02:11:13 |
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4441 Posts |
Posted - 25 Apr 2021 : 05:22:18
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quote:
Originally posted by Shadowsoul
I've been playing D&D since 1985 and I've never had anyone ask why such and such NPC didn't handle things. I think this is over exaggerated and a poor excuse.
Cool? Congratulations? Obviously the designers at that time DID feel this was an issue or received feedback making it appear so.... |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36805 Posts |
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Azar
Master of Realmslore
1309 Posts |
Posted - 25 Apr 2021 : 11:07:50
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Azar
A pre-4e/5e idea I have in mind is the possible need to resurrect Amaunator. There are three moon-based goddesses (Selune, Sehanine Moonbow and Eilistraee)...so why not two sun gods ?
The issue is that those three are all different pantheons. In the Faerūnian pantheon, having Lathander and Amaunator both is redundant.
Though I'd not have an issue with another sun god in another pantheon.
There's a thought: Amaunator reborn in a dwarven or halfling mold because of a calamity among either race that necessitates the presence of an orderly sun god.
Now, if you'll excuse me, I'll just slip into my devil's advocate suit...
I don't believe that the idea of Amaunator and Lathander functioning in the same pantheon is too wild to consider. In much the same way Oghma is the general god of knowledge and Deneir is more-or-less the god focused on the written word, Amaunator would be concerned with the overall importance of the sun while Lathander champions the dawn. With this change in the primary pantheon, Lathander remains an optimistic, friendly and good deity; however, he would also be the itinerant positive "face" of all things solar. Of course, Lathander may be reduced to an "Intermediate" or even "Lesser" deific status to compensate for the return of a related divine power.
My games are 2e-based and so Amaunator is dead by default. I only offer this suggestion because I think it can work if a DM puts in the effort to make it fit. |
Stand with anybody that stands right. Stand with him while he is right and part with him when he goes wrong.
Earth names in the Realms are more common than you may think. |
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4441 Posts |
Posted - 25 Apr 2021 : 14:10:18
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
The issue is that those three are all different pantheons. In the Faerūnian pantheon, having Lathander and Amaunator both is redundant.
Helm, Tyr, and Torm are all pretty much redundant - despite slightly different bents on Lawfulness and Knighthood.
Eldath, Silvanus, Mielikki, Lurue.....all kinda Redundant since they're just different aspects of nature and Forest dwellers.
Redundant deities with only a slight difference in ethos and alignment are sort of the Forgotten Realms wheelhouse  |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11830 Posts |
Posted - 25 Apr 2021 : 14:45:59
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quote:
Originally posted by Diffan
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
The issue is that those three are all different pantheons. In the Faerūnian pantheon, having Lathander and Amaunator both is redundant.
Helm, Tyr, and Torm are all pretty much redundant - despite slightly different bents on Lawfulness and Knighthood.
Eldath, Silvanus, Mielikki, Lurue.....all kinda Redundant since they're just different aspects of nature and Forest dwellers.
Redundant deities with only a slight difference in ethos and alignment are sort of the Forgotten Realms wheelhouse
Things become different more when its a god of an "object" versus an "idea". Ideas can be melded more where "I'm the god of this aspect of knowledge, death, destruction, etc....). When it's "the sun" having another god of "the sun" becomes problematic in the same pantheon. However, stating what they're responsible for CAN change that up some (i.e. a god of light versus a god of "the sun"). I think that's where a lot of folks (including myself) were seeing more of a problem. The idea that there might be a god of the "orderly nature of the sun" and another god who is "the god of bright beginnings" and another god who is "the god of the dying of the light, spreading of shadow" or some other variations that focuses on them being a "sun god" in a different way.... I'd find that more palatable, but they need to be presented that way. It can't be that "and Lathander has complete control of the sun" if that's the case. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Shadowsoul
Senior Scribe
Ireland
705 Posts |
Posted - 25 Apr 2021 : 15:16:17
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quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
quote:
Originally posted by Diffan
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
The issue is that those three are all different pantheons. In the Faerūnian pantheon, having Lathander and Amaunator both is redundant.
Helm, Tyr, and Torm are all pretty much redundant - despite slightly different bents on Lawfulness and Knighthood.
Eldath, Silvanus, Mielikki, Lurue.....all kinda Redundant since they're just different aspects of nature and Forest dwellers.
Redundant deities with only a slight difference in ethos and alignment are sort of the Forgotten Realms wheelhouse
Things become different more when its a god of an "object" versus an "idea". Ideas can be melded more where "I'm the god of this aspect of knowledge, death, destruction, etc....). When it's "the sun" having another god of "the sun" becomes problematic in the same pantheon. However, stating what they're responsible for CAN change that up some (i.e. a god of light versus a god of "the sun"). I think that's where a lot of folks (including myself) were seeing more of a problem. The idea that there might be a god of the "orderly nature of the sun" and another god who is "the god of bright beginnings" and another god who is "the god of the dying of the light, spreading of shadow" or some other variations that focuses on them being a "sun god" in a different way.... I'd find that more palatable, but they need to be presented that way. It can't be that "and Lathander has complete control of the sun" if that's the case.
It's a bit overkill to be honest. I mean splitting hairs and creating a god for each little thing is just too much. |
Fantasy is escapist, and that is its glory. If a soldier is imprisioned by the enemy, don't we consider it his duty to escape?. . .If we value the freedom of mind and soul, if we're partisans of liberty, then it's our plain duty to escape, and to take as many people with us as we can!
#8213; J.R.R. Tolkien
*I endorse everything Dark Wizard says*. |
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Your favorite Forgotten Realms potentialities?
