| Author |
 Topic  |
|
|
Gelcur
Senior Scribe
523 Posts |
 Posted - 03 Apr 2021 : 18:01:42
|
I'm looking to get some feedback on the skin tones of various Faerunian ethnicities. The artwork often doesn't seem to fit descriptions, so I based it on source text, mostly Races of Faerun. I was shooting for the AVERAGE skin tone. Am I close?
Link to png for major humans. I'll likely do Kara-tur and maybe Maztica as well. Then work on other races and their sub-races.
|
The party come to a town befallen by hysteria
Rogue: So what's in the general store?
DM: What are you looking for?
Rogue: Whatevers in the store.
DM: Like what?
Rogue: Everything.
DM: There is a lot of stuff.
Rogue: Is there a cart outside?
DM: (rolls) Yes.
Rogue: We'll take it all, we may need it for the greater good. |
Edited by - Gelcur on 03 Apr 2021 18:02:58
|
|
|
Azar
Master of Realmslore
1309 Posts |
|
|
Gelcur
Senior Scribe
523 Posts |
Posted - 04 Apr 2021 : 04:28:52
|
Ding, ding, you are correct. Such a great game, especially the online community and the modding. The online RP servers really were amazing. Sad they dropped the ball on the sequel.
Any opinions on if I got the skin tones right for each ethnicity? |
The party come to a town befallen by hysteria
Rogue: So what's in the general store?
DM: What are you looking for?
Rogue: Whatevers in the store.
DM: Like what?
Rogue: Everything.
DM: There is a lot of stuff.
Rogue: Is there a cart outside?
DM: (rolls) Yes.
Rogue: We'll take it all, we may need it for the greater good. |
 |
|
|
Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 04 Apr 2021 : 06:47:02
|
I think the tones look like good representations. The Chultan vs Illuskan extremes aren't quite as extreme as I would imagine from the 2E-era artwork which first described them. (But then again, the publishers just couldn't or wouldn't figure out how to reproduce "realistic" skin colours for drow, orcs, or aquatics during that era - even dusky skin tones were somehow "too hard" for them. We got a lot of ruddy European sorts and a lot of exaggerations for the other sorts.)
Wouldn't each ethnicity contain a small range of possible tones? If you're striving for "realism" then perhaps the larger populations should be represented by a larger variety of tone selections? It seems like groups which spread across different climates, different latitudes, different continents would likely diverge into subtypes. |
[/Ayrik] |
|
|
|
Azar
Master of Realmslore
1309 Posts |
Posted - 04 Apr 2021 : 13:17:52
|
quote:
Originally posted by Gelcur
Ding, ding, you are correct. Such a great game, especially the online community and the modding. The online RP servers really were amazing. Sad they dropped the ball on the sequel.
Any opinions on if I got the skin tones right for each ethnicity?
Tethyr looks spot on.
quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
(But then again, the publishers just couldn't or wouldn't figure out how to reproduce "realistic" skin colours for drow)
I know that you placed a certain word in quotation marks, but, just to be safe...
If the Drow possessed melanin that was truly realistic, they would feature incredibly pale/light skin thanks to their subterranean environment; their pitch black/coal black* skin is in fact the result of a curse...magic.
* Which makes about as much sense as brown, dark blue, purple, grey or whatever color they happen to be during the current edition of D&D. |
Stand with anybody that stands right. Stand with him while he is right and part with him when he goes wrong.
Earth names in the Realms are more common than you may think. |
|
|
|
sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11830 Posts |
Posted - 04 Apr 2021 : 15:13:14
|
| Mulan and Damaran should be swapped. Mulan is supposed to be very pale in most descriptions. I would almost say swap it with Illuskan, but that kind of doesn't make sense given that they live in a very warm environment, and thus get more sun. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
|
|
|
Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 04 Apr 2021 : 17:32:13
|
| 1E/2E Realmslore used the adjective "sallow" to describe Mulan complexion. I've seen it replaced with "olive" in later Realmslore. |
[/Ayrik] |
|
|
|
sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11830 Posts |
Posted - 04 Apr 2021 : 18:30:07
|
quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
1E/2E Realmslore used the adjective "sallow" to describe Mulan complexion. I've seen it replaced with "olive" in later Realmslore.
true, which tend to be more yellow skinned. I've also seen pale-skinned in reference to them. That being said, I must admit that art may be influencing my thoughts here, and the original posters reference that art doesn't necessarily match the texts is a good point. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
|
|
|
Azar
Master of Realmslore
1309 Posts |
|
|
Gelcur
Senior Scribe
523 Posts |
Posted - 04 Apr 2021 : 23:58:33
|
quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
The Chultan vs Illuskan extremes aren't quite as extreme as I would imagine from the 2E-era artwork which first described them. (But then again, the publishers just couldn't or wouldn't figure out how to reproduce "realistic" skin colours for drow, orcs, or aquatics during that era - even dusky skin tones were somehow "too hard" for them. We got a lot of ruddy European sorts and a lot of exaggerations for the other sorts.)
Wouldn't each ethnicity contain a small range of possible tones?
I picked the darkest "realistic" skin tone that was not pure black or pure white for Chultan and Illuskan. So my goal was to set down the most common skin tone you would find for that ethnicity. In general yes there would be a range of tones. I figure for simplicity, you can either go one step up or one step down on the scale depending on conditions, constantly indoors vs constantly outdoors in unshaded terrain.
quote:
Originally posted by Azar
Tethyr looks spot on.
If the Drow possessed melanin that was truly realistic, they would feature incredibly pale/light skin thanks to their subterranean environment; their pitch black/coal black* skin is in fact the result of a curse...magic.
* Which makes about as much sense as brown, dark blue, purple, grey or whatever color they happen to be during the current edition of D&D.
Awesome Tethyrian and Calishite were my starting point and then built out the rest from there. You bring up an interesting point on Drow I will likely have to mull over when I get to elves, could be as simple as including multiple tones for them too.
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
1E/2E Realmslore used the adjective "sallow" to describe Mulan complexion. I've seen it replaced with "olive" in later Realmslore.
true, which tend to be more yellow skinned. I've also seen pale-skinned in reference to them. That being said, I must admit that art may be influencing my thoughts here, and the original posters reference that art doesn't necessarily match the texts is a good point.
I had the most trouble locking in on Mulan. I also caught the change in the text from sallow to olive. I understand that the Red Wizards of Thay are Mulan and are depicted pale. But in general most Mulan aren't pure blooded according to the text, they often have Rashemi, Turami, and Chondathans blood. Combine that with their climate they should have some color to them. Again I was shooting for the most common skin color. I imagine you could move 1 step in either direction.
quote:
Originally posted by Azar
For curiosity's sake: what about the Amnians/Amnish?
Since Amnians are not a unique ethnicity I refer to Races of Faerun, their population is composed of 65% Tethyrian, 30% Calishite.
Great feedback everyone. I'm glad I'm not like WAY off base. I did take time to do a good amount of research. I wish I had a post from Ed or a novel references where he is describing certain characters of such and such ethnicity. But I lack encyclopedic knowledge of all work Ed.
|
The party come to a town befallen by hysteria
Rogue: So what's in the general store?
DM: What are you looking for?
Rogue: Whatevers in the store.
DM: Like what?
Rogue: Everything.
DM: There is a lot of stuff.
Rogue: Is there a cart outside?
DM: (rolls) Yes.
Rogue: We'll take it all, we may need it for the greater good. |
|
|
|
Wendolyn
Seeker
56 Posts |
|
|
Gelcur
Senior Scribe
523 Posts |
Posted - 06 Apr 2021 : 04:12:39
|
Thanks. Interesting document, do you know what it was created for and/or who created it? The host site seems mostly in Russian, I think.
Most of it looks good, though I see a few minor issues, though that might be my lack of 5e knowledge. Then there's the real world references that I try to avoid whenever possible since those seem to be Ed's wishes. |
The party come to a town befallen by hysteria
Rogue: So what's in the general store?
DM: What are you looking for?
Rogue: Whatevers in the store.
DM: Like what?
Rogue: Everything.
DM: There is a lot of stuff.
Rogue: Is there a cart outside?
DM: (rolls) Yes.
Rogue: We'll take it all, we may need it for the greater good. |
|
|
|
Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 06 Apr 2021 : 04:26:14
|
quote:
Originally posted by Gelcur
Thanks. Interesting document, do you know what it was created for and/or who created it? The host site seems mostly in Russian, I think.
Couldn't tell you who actually wrote the document.
But the site is owned and operated by WotC. So (I think) the document is an "official" publication.
https://dnd.wizards.com/ddal_general |
[/Ayrik] |
|
|
|
Wendolyn
Seeker
56 Posts |
Posted - 08 Apr 2021 : 01:12:58
|
quote:
Originally posted by Gelcur
Thanks. Interesting document, do you know what it was created for and/or who created it? The host site seems mostly in Russian, I think.
Most of it looks good, though I see a few minor issues, though that might be my lack of 5e knowledge. Then there's the real world references that I try to avoid whenever possible since those seem to be Ed's wishes.
Yeah the website I got from just by Googling, but I originally encountered the document somewhere official. On the DMsguild or Wizard's website, I can't remember. I think it is official.
I fully hear you on not wanting to use real-world analogues in your work. I would avoid doing so also. The audience for this guide is for you -- the designer -- to kind of have some mental picture to go on, not to actually copy that language in your work.
Another resource that might be helpful is this blog:
https://writingwithcolor.tumblr.com/post/95955707903/skin-writing-with-color-has-received-several
Just be careful if using food metaphors to describe people with darker skin tones. This is a tired and potentially problematic trope that has been done in the Realms before, with peoples skin being described as "cinnamon-colored," etc. |
|
|
|
Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 08 Apr 2021 : 11:59:37
|
quote:
Originally posted by Wendolyn
Just be careful if using food metaphors to describe people with darker skin tones. This is a tired and potentially problematic trope that has been done in the Realms before, with peoples skin being described as "cinnamon-colored," etc.
Good advice. But does it extend to descriptions of killable dehumanized monstrous humanoids?
A vampire's complexion, paler than salted rice.
A goblin with skin colour (and texture) resembling rotten porridge.
An orc with mustard-yellow eyes and a youthful olive-drab flush.
A ghoul with skin colour best described as "burnt hombre".
A lizardman with asparagus green markings and gang-green undertones. |
[/Ayrik] |
|
|
|
Wendolyn
Seeker
56 Posts |
Posted - 08 Apr 2021 : 15:28:41
|
quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
quote:
Originally posted by Wendolyn
Just be careful if using food metaphors to describe people with darker skin tones. This is a tired and potentially problematic trope that has been done in the Realms before, with peoples skin being described as "cinnamon-colored," etc.
Good advice. But does it extend to descriptions of killable dehumanized monstrous humanoids?
A vampire's complexion, paler than salted rice.
A goblin with skin colour (and texture) resembling rotten porridge.
An orc with mustard-yellow eyes and a youthful olive-drab flush.
A ghoul with skin colour best described as "burnt hombre".
A lizardman with asparagus green markings and gang-green undertones.
Truth be told, I have no idea about the dehumanized monstrous humanoids. I think there has been movement to treat them less as inherently and essentially evil, orcs and drow I mean, but I'm don't know if that connects to language choice about their skin color. For the human ethnicities of the Realms, especially those that are easily coded to real-world analogues like Chultans, etc., this guidance seems the most directly applicable. |
|
|
|
Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36805 Posts |
Posted - 08 Apr 2021 : 16:04:50
|
| I get why vampires are generally really really pale, but I'm not a fan of it. Paler skin than the norm, yes. So pale that it really stands out? No... Predators should not stand out for something like that. Predators that need to get close to their victims should not have visible features that immediately warn the victim that something is not right. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
|
|
| |
Topic |
|
Feedback on Skin Tones
