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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36805 Posts |
 Posted - 22 Sep 2020 : 17:25:20
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quote:
Originally posted by Diffan
Honestly, what I'd love to see is a Greyhawk Setting book. With adventures from that setting already in Tales of the Yawning Portal (which, I know, is set in the Realms) PLUS the Ghosts of Saltmarsh book (which takes place in Greyhawk) it would be pretty good to have that classic back. Not to mention you could re-sell an updated Temple of Elemental Evil (which should definitely be different than Princes of the Apocalypse) and other classics like Vault of the Drow or Horror on the Hill. And I believe they already have a version of Isle of Dread - which is set in GH if I'm not mistaken.
Just a lot of good ideas from the past to be used.
In terms of popularity, I think Greyhawk would be the strongest choice. I don't have numbers or anything, but Greyhawk has been around longer, and we know that it's got people just as dedicated to it as we are to the Realms. |
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keftiu
Senior Scribe
656 Posts |
Posted - 22 Sep 2020 : 20:41:03
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| How would you pitch Greyhawk in a world that already has the Realms and Exandria? |
4e fangirl. Here to queer up the Realms. |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11830 Posts |
Posted - 22 Sep 2020 : 21:09:14
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| Yeah, I gotta agree.... what's the actual draw to release a GH supplement unless its just a single sourcebook like the SCAG kind of was? At least with these other settings it's either something different enough that people will look at it just to see what its about or its something that the younger crowd is already aware of (like Eberron) or which tends to draw a younger crowd (which I may be biased about, but I feel that's who Dark Sun is geared towards). |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36805 Posts |
Posted - 22 Sep 2020 : 21:17:00
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quote:
Originally posted by keftiu
How would you pitch Greyhawk in a world that already has the Realms and Exandria?
Pitch it as the original D&D setting*, crafted by Gary Gygax himself. That counts for a lot, with some folks, though I'm not one of them (I'm not even particularly enthusiastic about Gary Gygax).
*Pretty sure Blackmoor existed first, but Greyhawk was published first. |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Gyor
Master of Realmslore
1625 Posts |
Posted - 22 Sep 2020 : 21:29:32
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quote:
Originally posted by keftiu
How would you pitch Greyhawk in a world that already has the Realms and Exandria?
I'd add mechanics for gritter play, then compare it to some beloved gritty none DnD IP. |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 22 Sep 2020 : 21:35:42
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Greyhawk would sell simply because it contains Mordenkainen, Bigby and etc.
It could easily be “moved forward” in its timeline and many new adventures be had.
Iuz is an old foe that needs to be addressed...what has happened in the Wild Coast? How are the Ulek states doing? How has the Pomarj developed? Did Ahlissa manage to reform the Great Kingdom? How goes the Scarlet Brotherhood? On and on... |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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keftiu
Senior Scribe
656 Posts |
Posted - 22 Sep 2020 : 22:06:55
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quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden
Greyhawk would sell simply because it contains Mordenkainen, Bigby and etc.
It could easily be “moved forward” in its timeline and many new adventures be had.
Iuz is an old foe that needs to be addressed...what has happened in the Wild Coast? How are the Ulek states doing? How has the Pomarj developed? Did Ahlissa manage to reform the Great Kingdom? How goes the Scarlet Brotherhood? On and on...
A great number of 5e’s fans are people who got into the hobby with 5e. How do you make them care about Greyhawk? The nostalgia pitch means nothing to them, and like I implied, it reads as yet another classic fantasy setting in addition to the Realms and Exandria. |
4e fangirl. Here to queer up the Realms. |
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4441 Posts |
Posted - 22 Sep 2020 : 22:11:49
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Diffan
Honestly, what I'd love to see is a Greyhawk Setting book. With adventures from that setting already in Tales of the Yawning Portal (which, I know, is set in the Realms) PLUS the Ghosts of Saltmarsh book (which takes place in Greyhawk) it would be pretty good to have that classic back. Not to mention you could re-sell an updated Temple of Elemental Evil (which should definitely be different than Princes of the Apocalypse) and other classics like Vault of the Drow or Horror on the Hill. And I believe they already have a version of Isle of Dread - which is set in GH if I'm not mistaken.
Just a lot of good ideas from the past to be used.
In terms of popularity, I think Greyhawk would be the strongest choice. I don't have numbers or anything, but Greyhawk has been around longer, and we know that it's got people just as dedicated to it as we are to the Realms.
As a setting, I think it already has SOO much going for it, especially with what they have already produced. Basically ALL the adventures in Tales from the Yawning Portal, save Dead in Thay, are from Oberron, so that could easily be a starting point. Saltmarsh being a second, Isle of Dread, and the Caves of Chaos from Keep on the Borderland (2E it was set in Greyhawk).
Seems like a no-brainer to me |
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4441 Posts |
Posted - 22 Sep 2020 : 22:26:35
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quote:
Originally posted by keftiu
A great number of 5e’s fans are people who got into the hobby with 5e. How do you make them care about Greyhawk? The nostalgia pitch means nothing to them, and like I implied, it reads as yet another classic fantasy setting in addition to the Realms and Exandria.
I think it's pretty unfortunate that WotC would need a silly gimmick to get people hooked on one of the biggest and oldest settings of Dungeons and Dragons.
I guess you either like the concept of playing in a realm where Mordenkainen (of Mordenkainen's Tome of Foes) hails from. Where you can actually meet and learn from the great elven wizard Melf. See the origins of Tasha (of Tasha's Cauldron of Everything) or delve into the deep recesses where Evard dwells, or you don't and continue with other campaigns.
You have the demons like Iuz (which was already mentioned) that does need addressing, as well as possibly going on a quest to find the Eye of Vecna. Then there's Graz'zt and his crazy shenanigans.
I dunno, either people get a pull to try out the setting or they don't. For example, I thought Acquisitions Inc. was absolutely moronic and something I'd never incorporate into my games or game in. I have no desire to play a Corporate Half-Orc CEO or a Paladin body-guard for a fashion empire's heiress. The idea of being a Rogue that can dodge income taxes as easily as Lightning bolts is mind-numbing. But hey, they made that book.
I'd suggest a poll first from them to gauge interests and see where that goes. |
Edited by - Diffan on 22 Sep 2020 22:27:55 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36805 Posts |
Posted - 22 Sep 2020 : 22:52:06
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| If I was new to D&D, simply being told "this was the original D&D setting!" would generate some interest from me. I don't know that it would be enough to sell it to me, but it is the reason I originally checked out Greyhawk, back in the 2E era. |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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keftiu
Senior Scribe
656 Posts |
Posted - 23 Sep 2020 : 00:08:16
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
If I was new to D&D, simply being told "this was the original D&D setting!" would generate some interest from me. I don't know that it would be enough to sell it to me, but it is the reason I originally checked out Greyhawk, back in the 2E era.
WotC wants settings to have a clear hook: the Realms are the default, Eberron is magitek and moral grey, Dark Sun is post-apocalyptic and psionic, Ravenloft is horror... in that context, “it’s an old fantasy setting but it’s not the same old fantasy setting as the Realms” is a pitch I don’t see the suits up top thinking the market would be excited for. |
4e fangirl. Here to queer up the Realms. |
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Seethyr
Master of Realmslore
USA
1151 Posts |
Posted - 23 Sep 2020 : 00:29:00
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quote:
Originally posted by Diffan
I dunno, either people get a pull to try out the setting or they don't. For example, I thought Acquisitions Inc. was absolutely moronic and something I'd never incorporate into my games or game in. I have no desire to play a Corporate Half-Orc CEO or a Paladin body-guard for a fashion empire's heiress. The idea of being a Rogue that can dodge income taxes as easily as Lightning bolts is mind-numbing. But hey, they made that book.
I thought I was the only one flabbergasted by this choice. |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6666 Posts |
Posted - 23 Sep 2020 : 00:35:41
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quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden
Greyhawk would sell simply because it contains Mordenkainen, Bigby and etc.
It could easily be “moved forward” in its timeline and many new adventures be had.
Iuz is an old foe that needs to be addressed...what has happened in the Wild Coast? How are the Ulek states doing? How has the Pomarj developed? Did Ahlissa manage to reform the Great Kingdom? How goes the Scarlet Brotherhood? On and on...
None of the young, casual gamers who proliferate know anything about Mordenkainen, Bigby, Iuz et. al. and likely don't care, so I don't see a huge upsurge in people joining the game or sales. The people who buy the books will continue to buy them but WotC isn't stupid - it's looking to leverage its IP. The black obelisks thing is likely to be intended to be "gameworld-spanning" (given the Vecna mention) and that will be the tie for them to roll out all of their playthings and rope in a few GH, DS, Planescape, SJ grognards or uber fans for a little uptick in sales and as a nod to them ("We haven't forgotten you!"). But everything will remain in the adventure-path style format; there will be no "campaign setting books" - WotC don't need them and moreover likely consider (rightly) that the resources that would be devoted to them are best used to churn out more of the current line of products that are bringing sales and success. This is not a change in tack. They are just planning on using a bigger pot with a few more ingredients. Smart business.
-- George Krashos |
"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11830 Posts |
Posted - 23 Sep 2020 : 01:00:01
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quote:
Originally posted by keftiu
quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden
Greyhawk would sell simply because it contains Mordenkainen, Bigby and etc.
It could easily be “moved forward” in its timeline and many new adventures be had.
Iuz is an old foe that needs to be addressed...what has happened in the Wild Coast? How are the Ulek states doing? How has the Pomarj developed? Did Ahlissa manage to reform the Great Kingdom? How goes the Scarlet Brotherhood? On and on...
A great number of 5e’s fans are people who got into the hobby with 5e. How do you make them care about Greyhawk? The nostalgia pitch means nothing to them, and like I implied, it reads as yet another classic fantasy setting in addition to the Realms and Exandria.
She's right. I hate to say it in some ways, but she is right. In fact, I know some of you may have been thinking to yourself "why is Sleyvas getting so excited about stupid Satyrs in the Theros set?" when for a week I was making satyr models. Its because my girlfriend's daughter is being read the Percy Jackson series, and while I consider them cute and kidsie and hope she gets into something more serious... I don't hold out a lot of hope.... but she likes it... and its exposed her to concepts like Satyrs. She was also read the Magnus Chase books by the same author (i.e. viking myths) and it made her interested in elves and dwarves. A lot of us older grognards are buying the books and reading them slowly, but using them little, but I've been playing with younger folks in their early 20's and 30's. They don't necessarily want to know the in depth histories, and there needs to be a "hook" to make them want to learn about a world. For Theros its the "you can interact more with the gods" world. Greyhawk and the realms are a lot alike folks, and so is Krynn and birthright. If they have to pick one to support, I'm glad it is the realms.
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Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4441 Posts |
Posted - 23 Sep 2020 : 01:10:25
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quote:
Originally posted by Seethyr
I thought I was the only one flabbergasted by this choice.
Nope, it's ridiculously stupid. I have a buddy in another group who told me that their next campaign was set using Acquisitions Inc. and he just bowed out. I guess his leaving caused some contentious issues because the scrapped the notion and are doing Frost Maiden instead.
I asked what it was about and procured a PDF of the supplement.....its not good. And by that, I mean that I don't find the content interesting or remotely entertaining (obviously YMMV). For people who want to play SIMS D&D, I guesss this would be their thing. If you get enjoyment out of creating a business and having glamour spells and illusions for advertising and pixies handing out fliers on the street, and hired a debonair suave Raksasha as your salesman, well there ya go.
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keftiu
Senior Scribe
656 Posts |
Posted - 23 Sep 2020 : 01:28:59
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quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden
Greyhawk would sell simply because it contains Mordenkainen, Bigby and etc.
It could easily be “moved forward” in its timeline and many new adventures be had.
Iuz is an old foe that needs to be addressed...what has happened in the Wild Coast? How are the Ulek states doing? How has the Pomarj developed? Did Ahlissa manage to reform the Great Kingdom? How goes the Scarlet Brotherhood? On and on...
None of the young, casual gamers who proliferate know anything about Mordenkainen, Bigby, Iuz et. al. and likely don't care, so I don't see a huge upsurge in people joining the game or sales. The people who buy the books will continue to buy them but WotC isn't stupid - it's looking to leverage its IP. The black obelisks thing is likely to be intended to be "gameworld-spanning" (given the Vecna mention) and that will be the tie for them to roll out all of their playthings and rope in a few GH, DS, Planescape, SJ grognards or uber fans for a little uptick in sales and as a nod to them ("We haven't forgotten you!"). But everything will remain in the adventure-path style format; there will be no "campaign setting books" - WotC don't need them and moreover likely consider (rightly) that the resources that would be devoted to them are best used to churn out more of the current line of products that are bringing sales and success. This is not a change in tack. They are just planning on using a bigger pot with a few more ingredients. Smart business.
-- George Krashos
George, your argument falls apart a little when you see that Eberron and Exandria both got beefy hardcover campaign setting books that weren’t adventures. |
4e fangirl. Here to queer up the Realms. |
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keftiu
Senior Scribe
656 Posts |
Posted - 23 Sep 2020 : 01:31:40
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quote:
Originally posted by Seethyr
quote:
Originally posted by Diffan
I dunno, either people get a pull to try out the setting or they don't. For example, I thought Acquisitions Inc. was absolutely moronic and something I'd never incorporate into my games or game in. I have no desire to play a Corporate Half-Orc CEO or a Paladin body-guard for a fashion empire's heiress. The idea of being a Rogue that can dodge income taxes as easily as Lightning bolts is mind-numbing. But hey, they made that book.
I thought I was the only one flabbergasted by this choice.
Acquisitions Incorporated is the reason I originally got into tabletop, hearing the early actual play Perkins did with the Penny Arcade crew and Wil Wheaton. Do I get much out of the premise now? Not at all, and PA have a lovely history of transphobia and sexual assault-based punchlines that I’m uninterested in supporting, but for a lot of people it has a draw. |
4e fangirl. Here to queer up the Realms. |
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Gyor
Master of Realmslore
1625 Posts |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36805 Posts |
Posted - 23 Sep 2020 : 04:16:27
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quote:
Originally posted by keftiu
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden
Greyhawk would sell simply because it contains Mordenkainen, Bigby and etc.
It could easily be “moved forward” in its timeline and many new adventures be had.
Iuz is an old foe that needs to be addressed...what has happened in the Wild Coast? How are the Ulek states doing? How has the Pomarj developed? Did Ahlissa manage to reform the Great Kingdom? How goes the Scarlet Brotherhood? On and on...
None of the young, casual gamers who proliferate know anything about Mordenkainen, Bigby, Iuz et. al. and likely don't care, so I don't see a huge upsurge in people joining the game or sales. The people who buy the books will continue to buy them but WotC isn't stupid - it's looking to leverage its IP. The black obelisks thing is likely to be intended to be "gameworld-spanning" (given the Vecna mention) and that will be the tie for them to roll out all of their playthings and rope in a few GH, DS, Planescape, SJ grognards or uber fans for a little uptick in sales and as a nod to them ("We haven't forgotten you!"). But everything will remain in the adventure-path style format; there will be no "campaign setting books" - WotC don't need them and moreover likely consider (rightly) that the resources that would be devoted to them are best used to churn out more of the current line of products that are bringing sales and success. This is not a change in tack. They are just planning on using a bigger pot with a few more ingredients. Smart business.
-- George Krashos
George, your argument falls apart a little when you see that Eberron and Exandria both got beefy hardcover campaign setting books that weren’t adventures.
I think that it would be more accurate to say that we're going to either get the adventure-path books or the campaign books where WotC barely has to put any effort into it. The Eberron book was pretty much a reskinned copy of the original, and someone else did all the work for making Exandria a setting.
That's why I expect Dark Sun to be one of the "new" settings -- all the material is already there, they just need to reskin it a bit and they're done. |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4441 Posts |
Posted - 23 Sep 2020 : 09:41:16
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quote:
Originally posted by Gyor
https://youtu.be/ejcQN-Kw7y0
A video argueing that WotC hates the SCAG.
Meh, this Only applies to Adventure League play, which I really can't stand. It's based on the whole PHB +1 concept, that you can only choose the PHB and one other player supplement. So if a spell is in -say- Xanathar's Guide and you've chosen PHB and SCAG well then you're SOL. If you want to play as an Aasimar from Mordenkainen's Tome of Foes, well that's it.
Fortunately my group just does it's thing and we can be more open with the system. |
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keftiu
Senior Scribe
656 Posts |
Posted - 23 Sep 2020 : 10:50:29
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I have to say, a Dark Sun revival would be a pleasant surprise; I might even do a Guild project for it...
I’ll be stunned if these 3 settings aren’t Dark Sun, Ravenloft, and Spelljammer, and would be genuinely stunned if I was wrong on any of that. There’s been so many Spelljammer references, they’ve already hinted at more Ravenloft and a Vistani rewrite in it, and psionics in Tasha’s make DS obvious. |
4e fangirl. Here to queer up the Realms. |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11830 Posts |
Posted - 23 Sep 2020 : 11:41:00
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quote:
Originally posted by Diffan
quote:
Originally posted by Gyor
https://youtu.be/ejcQN-Kw7y0
A video argueing that WotC hates the SCAG.
Meh, this Only applies to Adventure League play, which I really can't stand. It's based on the whole PHB +1 concept, that you can only choose the PHB and one other player supplement. So if a spell is in -say- Xanathar's Guide and you've chosen PHB and SCAG well then you're SOL. If you want to play as an Aasimar from Mordenkainen's Tome of Foes, well that's it.
Fortunately my group just does it's thing and we can be more open with the system.
Sidebar: haven't watched that video yet, but on what Diffan just said... what moron in their company (and yes, I will go so far as to use that term in this instance and truly MEAN it) decides to tell their PAYING clientele that they can only pick a SINGLE alternate source of rules for use in their game system in which they're pushing the purchase of multiple rule books. While I could see coming up with some rulings, like maybe "you can't use X and Y book together because they're decidedly different campaign settings", beyond that it gets way too controlling. Guess that's part of why I never got into that kind of play (well, that and I've never played in a game store. I've always played from mine or someone else's house, or a few one-off convention games I ran under 1e or 2e rulesets). |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36805 Posts |
Posted - 23 Sep 2020 : 14:38:48
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quote:
Originally posted by keftiu
I have to say, a Dark Sun revival would be a pleasant surprise; I might even do a Guild project for it...
I’ll be stunned if these 3 settings aren’t Dark Sun, Ravenloft, and Spelljammer, and would be genuinely stunned if I was wrong on any of that. There’s been so many Spelljammer references, they’ve already hinted at more Ravenloft and a Vistani rewrite in it, and psionics in Tasha’s make DS obvious.
As I've said, my first love of D&D settings was Spelljammer; my username comes from there... But I don't think Spelljammer is going to be in the mix, because it's just too problematic.
I recall when it was around the first time, a lot of people couldn't get past the idea that space travel in a fantasy setting wouldn't follow all the real-world rules of space travel. And unless they isolate all the game worlds from Spelljammer, they'll have to figure out a way to keep even one or two ships from having a dramatic impact on groundling society.
Also, even when Spelljammer was a supported setting, Spelljammer material often clashed with material for specific settings. In Krynnspace, for example, it was stated that Krynn's moons formed an equilateral triangle around the planet and stayed equidistant from each other -- meaning conjuctions and the Night of the Eye could not possibly happen. (The same supplement also brought us an NPC that gets my vote for Worst RPG Concept Ever: Little Biggnome, a 6-inch tall, flying, superstrong gnome. I like to use Elfquest's Madcoil as an example of ideas that can't work as presented, but Little Biggnome goes way beyond that) |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 23 Sep 2020 14:41:40 |
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keftiu
Senior Scribe
656 Posts |
Posted - 23 Sep 2020 : 21:16:35
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| I’m no Spelljammer fan, myself, but they’ve been cramming a ton of references to it in 5e so far: you can find a spelljammer and its helm in Dungeon of the Mad Mage (which also let you visit a Githyanki dock in orbit!), for instance, and the Giff got a writeup in the Tome of Foes. Spelljammer has seen more love in this edition than any since it was being actively supported. |
4e fangirl. Here to queer up the Realms. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36805 Posts |
Posted - 23 Sep 2020 : 21:31:26
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quote:
Originally posted by keftiu
I’m no Spelljammer fan, myself, but they’ve been cramming a ton of references to it in 5e so far: you can find a spelljammer and its helm in Dungeon of the Mad Mage (which also let you visit a Githyanki dock in orbit!), for instance, and the Giff got a writeup in the Tome of Foes. Spelljammer has seen more love in this edition than any since it was being actively supported.
I'm pretty sure those are more aimed at (or inserted by) a Spelljammer fan among the designers, instead of anything else.
I've not read that far into the 5E Undermountain book (because ye gods, did they nerf it!), but I'm wondering exactly how a squidship wound up down there. Halaster generally kept things local to the Heartlands. |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 23 Sep 2020 21:32:26 |
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4441 Posts |
Posted - 23 Sep 2020 : 22:07:51
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quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
quote:
Originally posted by Diffan
quote:
Originally posted by Gyor
https://youtu.be/ejcQN-Kw7y0
A video argueing that WotC hates the SCAG.
Meh, this Only applies to Adventure League play, which I really can't stand. It's based on the whole PHB +1 concept, that you can only choose the PHB and one other player supplement. So if a spell is in -say- Xanathar's Guide and you've chosen PHB and SCAG well then you're SOL. If you want to play as an Aasimar from Mordenkainen's Tome of Foes, well that's it.
Fortunately my group just does it's thing and we can be more open with the system.
Sidebar: haven't watched that video yet, but on what Diffan just said... what moron in their company (and yes, I will go so far as to use that term in this instance and truly MEAN it) decides to tell their PAYING clientele that they can only pick a SINGLE alternate source of rules for use in their game system in which they're pushing the purchase of multiple rule books.
I don't play Adventure League, so I cannot comment on how it is at the actual store/FLGS but from my estimation, it's supposed to lessen the work on the DM on the adventures they run, and supposed to cut down on the type of Players that do a lot of cherry-picking of spells, archetypes, and races to achieve Ultimate Combos.
Looking at how tight the 5E ruleset really is, aside from some outlier options, it's pretty well balanced (at least, from a 3.5 perspective). I think people still go with the Fighter/ranger dual-crossbow (Crossbow Expert, Sharpshooter) build that deals quite a bit of damage and there's also a Tabaxi Monk that can run some 900 mph ....still nothing mind-blowing.
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
While I could see coming up with some rulings, like maybe "you can't use X and Y book together because they're decidedly different campaign settings", beyond that it gets way too controlling. Guess that's part of why I never got into that kind of play (well, that and I've never played in a game store. I've always played from mine or someone else's house, or a few one-off convention games I ran under 1e or 2e rulesets).
Same. I've done something similar when running 3.5/4E - for example - I didn't allow Dragonmarks in my Realms games because they were ingrained with the lore of Eberron. I also wouldn't allow Chosen in Eberron or people who could wield Spellfire. Races is a bit different, as I don't see why Shifters couldn't exist in Forgotten Realms, Changlinegs or Warforged (recreated as Gondsmen) either.
What I find really silly is that if you wanted to do, say a human Alchemist, for Rime of the Frost Maiden, you could only use the PHB and the Eberron book.....for a Realms game. Maybe FLGS could be asked to assume Setting Books (options in SCAG) for all Realms-related adventures and then it would be PHB + Setting book + 1? |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11830 Posts |
Posted - 24 Sep 2020 : 11:54:17
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quote:
Originally posted by keftiu
I’m no Spelljammer fan, myself, but they’ve been cramming a ton of references to it in 5e so far: you can find a spelljammer and its helm in Dungeon of the Mad Mage (which also let you visit a Githyanki dock in orbit!), for instance, and the Giff got a writeup in the Tome of Foes. Spelljammer has seen more love in this edition than any since it was being actively supported.
Hey, one thing I am curious about on that and don't feel like dragging out the book for it.... is it actually a separate helm in the module? I note that a lot of problems (not all) go away whenever the helm itself isn't "portable" to any ship that you bolt it to, so if "the ship itself" is the magic item that allows plane travel, that's at least a step in the right direction in my book. It also technically means that the "ship" isn't using a "spelljamming helm" but rather "its a ship that can move in wildspace" if you catch my drift. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Gyor
Master of Realmslore
1625 Posts |
Posted - 24 Sep 2020 : 19:44:17
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quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
quote:
Originally posted by keftiu
I’m no Spelljammer fan, myself, but they’ve been cramming a ton of references to it in 5e so far: you can find a spelljammer and its helm in Dungeon of the Mad Mage (which also let you visit a Githyanki dock in orbit!), for instance, and the Giff got a writeup in the Tome of Foes. Spelljammer has seen more love in this edition than any since it was being actively supported.
Hey, one thing I am curious about on that and don't feel like dragging out the book for it.... is it actually a separate helm in the module? I note that a lot of problems (not all) go away whenever the helm itself isn't "portable" to any ship that you bolt it to, so if "the ship itself" is the magic item that allows plane travel, that's at least a step in the right direction in my book. It also technically means that the "ship" isn't using a "spelljamming helm" but rather "its a ship that can move in wildspace" if you catch my drift.
Spoiler
There is also Nautiliods in Frostmaiden and in Volo's Guide to Monsters and BG3. And Dan Dillion apparently confirmed it, but I don't know if he was serious.
I thought Darksun and Planescape were the most likely 3rd setting (with the other two being Forgotten Realms and Ravenloft), because of their tier one popularity, but I was alot less certain about what the 3rd setting was, then FR and Ravenloft.
But it does make a certain sense, they have been using APs to experiment with Spelljammer and general vechile rules, where as while they have some Psion stuff now, they may still want to figure out a psion class before doing Darksun. And there maybe reasons why they don't feel ready to do Planescape yet. Plus they've been meanly teasing people with Spelljammer for years to the point where it stopped being funny and just dickish to Spelljammer fans, so this would make up for it. Plus its a potential link between D&D Classic Settings and MtG settings and Exandia.
There is also the possiblity they merged Spelljammer and Planescape into a single Metasetting setting, which is hinted at by the fact that unlike in 2e, Spelljammers are capable of planeshifting, or at least some of them can, like Nautiliods. |
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Gyor
Master of Realmslore
1625 Posts |
Posted - 24 Sep 2020 : 19:51:41
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quote:
Originally posted by keftiu
I have to say, a Dark Sun revival would be a pleasant surprise; I might even do a Guild project for it...
I’ll be stunned if these 3 settings aren’t Dark Sun, Ravenloft, and Spelljammer, and would be genuinely stunned if I was wrong on any of that. There’s been so many Spelljammer references, they’ve already hinted at more Ravenloft and a Vistani rewrite in it, and psionics in Tasha’s make DS obvious.
Alot of folks still want a full psionics class and Darksun isn't the only setting with Psions, Eberron and FR both have Psionics.
I think for now they will wait till they have a full Psion class to do Darksun, although the Psionic subclasses will reference Darksun in Tasha's.
Jeremy Crawford said that the Psionic subclasses in Tasha's doesn't mean they won't do a full Psion class in the future. |
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Gyor
Master of Realmslore
1625 Posts |
Posted - 24 Sep 2020 : 19:54:39
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quote:
Originally posted by keftiu
I have to say, a Dark Sun revival would be a pleasant surprise; I might even do a Guild project for it...
I’ll be stunned if these 3 settings aren’t Dark Sun, Ravenloft, and Spelljammer, and would be genuinely stunned if I was wrong on any of that. There’s been so many Spelljammer references, they’ve already hinted at more Ravenloft and a Vistani rewrite in it, and psionics in Tasha’s make DS obvious.
Alot of folks still want a full psionics class and Darksun isn't the only setting with Psions, Eberron and FR both have Psionics.
I think for now they will wait till they have a full Psion class to do Darksun, although the Psionic subclasses will reference Darksun in Tasha's.
Jeremy Crawford said that the Psionic subclasses in Tasha's doesn't mean they won't do a full Psion class in the future. |
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WotC is working on 3 classic D&D Settings
