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Originally posted by sleyvas

On the manifestations coming to Toril via some kind of magic ships, I have no problem with. There was a lore issue that could use some kind of explanation (i.e. why are there physical manifestations of the gods only in two countries). They created this artificial boundary as a result with lore, and they created a solution around the artificial boundary at the same time. In many ways, it was an elegant answer. The question I've always had was, where did the gods come FROM in their magic ships. Off the record, we've had several authors nod that it is Earth that they came from, so we do have the intent, though that may have been because that's what they were being asked as well (I don't propose that I can read minds, so I don't truly know the original intent).

So, people point out that our world had those gods. I like to think, well, what if some of the people from those regions went to earth? They might have come over with stories of these gods and their powers, and they could have brought the religions with them. Also, if the people of Mulhorand had advanced technology (which we've been led to believe they USED to study technology more), that might explain some of the amazing construction miracles that modern scientists wonder about (and if they did bring some limited magical ability, that might also help such). Furthermore, IF such were to happen, then in Toril the discussion wouldn't be about "where did these people come from", it might be just randomly that some people disappear..... (before someone tries to conflate that with what happened during the spellplague, remember then that OUR world and Toril are also supposed to be roughly in some kind of time sync, so unless those people got sent into our past.... not outside the bounds of possibility mind you.... then that's not what happened, because Ed's supposedly talking to Elminster in the 1350s-1370's).

To add to this, what Ayrik just pointed out, yes it could very much make sense if some things (dragons, giants, leprechauns, fairies, etc...) that were exceptionally rare things in our world that few ever saw.... well they might be much more common in the realms, but they crossed to this world because of some portal or fey crossroad on accident, and their myths dried up in a century or two because no more of them came through.

Also, Ayrik asks a very good question in why don't we have something more on other races, cultures, or civilizations claiming origins from other settings? I'd speculate that maybe a lot of them have forgotten that history from so long ago, because I find it hard to believe that so many intelligent races would spring into being in the same world (again, not impossible with magic, especially since magic can GIVE intelligence to even a dumb animal, just harder to believe).

I guess in the end, a good question to ask is what do we feel like we NEED to have come from earth? I mean, if we say that just having trees and such similar, well then that's going to mean that earth needs to touch nearly everything. If its that there's certain cultures or words that are just too similar, then which ones are they that we can't explain away in some other means? While I'm not averse to having contact between our worlds, the more "ties" we have between them, the harder it becomes to maintain credulity when fact A and fact B don't line up timeline wise, etc... whereas using some totally made up world allows us to play with facts at our whims. Having numerous points of origin for cultures allows even more flexibility (for instance maybe some avariels came from Mystara, but others came from the feywild, and a third group which was killed off came from Greyhawk.... and then maybe we find out that Mystara is to Greyhawk in a manner similar to how Abeir is to Toril).



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It wouldn't even require a mass exodus to Earth to bring those religions here, if they originated elsewhere. It could have been just a handful of people, spreading the word as they integrated into an existing society.

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Originally posted by bloodtide_the_red

There is always the possibility that many people will hide or obscure where they came from and how.

You can find this world wide, but a great example are the people living in the Americas before 1492 or so. A great many of these people will claim with no question that their people have been there forever. Science shows people walked to the Americas or took a boat or two. And yet they will still say they have always been there and never came from anywhere. And this does not even scratch the surface of each group saying that their group was their first.

A Realms example is the Djen: who brought human and halfling slaves from elsewhere(maybe several places) to Toril 8,000 years ago. But most Realmslore says nothing about them. And very little is said about the halflings at all, but they would seem to be the ancestors of most of the Sword Coast and Heartland halflings.

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Originally posted by bloodtide_the_red

There is always the possibility that many people will hide or obscure where they came from and how.

You can find this world wide, but a great example are the people living in the Americas before 1492 or so. A great many of these people will claim with no question that their people have been there forever. Science shows people walked to the Americas or took a boat or two. And yet they will still say they have always been there and never came from anywhere. And this does not even scratch the surface of each group saying that their group was their first.

A Realms example is the Djen: who brought human and halfling slaves from elsewhere(maybe several places) to Toril 8,000 years ago. But most Realmslore says nothing about them. And very little is said about the halflings at all, but they would seem to be the ancestors of most of the Sword Coast and Heartland halflings.

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You know what.... I hadn't considered this until you just said it, but I think it was Dalor Darden the other day who was talking about adapting the five shires content to the realms (since Ed said he originally meant it to be there).

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I wonder if he took this into consideration, because where he's putting it is right next to Calimshan.

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Originally posted by ElfBane

This thread has been fun, but when we get down to it, the whole entirety of the FR world is anthropic. We have magic in FR because we have magic superstitions in our past. We have pantheism because pantheism is in our past (and present for some cultures). And so on... you get the drift.

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Originally posted by cpthero2

Great Reader Karsus,

Deep words for sure. Metaphysics in epistemology is some crazy stuff. I am assuming you are pulling that from something Immanuel Kant wrote in the Prolegomena to Any Future Metaphysics? I can't say that I remember that quote, but the way it comes across is very Kantian.

A brutal read that was for sure.

Best regards,

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-Haha, it does sound deep, doesn't it? Never read any Kant other than basic categorical imperative stuff in Philosophy 101 years ago. Regardless, it's just something I've noticed in any fantasy/sci-fi/alternate setting, regardless of how different the in-setting world wants to be from Earth. Geography might be different, technology might be different, societal mores might be different, but when you get down to the nitty-gritty nothing is ever that revolutionary and radical because it's always based off of the way we look at things and do things in the actual world.

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