quote:

---

Originally posted by sleyvas

So, just out of curiosity, I wanted to go back and look at the desert of desolation modules today with an eye towards what could be gleaned. One of the things that I had been postulating in other threads here is that the idea that Enlil and Anu are the same god wasn't always true and that Anu came from some other area of the south like the Shaar. I'd also been wondering if the Mulan gods were the ONLY gods to have shown up to face the Imaskari, because possibly other peoples deities had shown up, but they went in another direction (such as down towards Zakhara or the Utter East).

So, in the desert of desolation modules, it starts talking about Durpar and one of the thing it stresses is that they worship "the one god". So, I'm like "yeah, they worship the Adama"... but then I'm reading on. The "one god" to them in desert of desolation is Anu. Then it goes on to say that the Durpari want to see all other temples of old gods thrown down. This is very much different from the Adama idea that came forth in 2nd edition, in which one is accepting of all gods and then them having these specifically different god names that 3rd edition later makes into the gods of Faerun. However, it does promote the belief I have that Anu came from the south.

So, then I started thinking to myself... what happened between this printing of desert of desolation in 1st edition and the shining south presentation of durpar in 2nd edition?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by BadCatMan

That was the "Utter East Campaign + MAP!!!" thread on the old WotC forums. Pretty much completely lost now. I saved all the pages for personal reference, and never really looked at them again. So many ideas I'd do differently now.

Part of the problem with DoD, of course, is that it's rewritten from earlier, non-FR modules, with the Symbayans and Thunes, who are related peoples, changed to Durpari and Raurindi, respectively, who are not. Anu was not renamed, but in the original version, the Symbayans were converted to Anu in only the previous few decades. In the FR version, it's many Raurindi who converted to Anu and were absorbed by Durpari, "many years ago".

And don't forget, Durpari worship of the Adama is not a new thing – it dates back to #8722;256 DR, and the Durpari quickly made its prophet Satama their Maharajah, making it a state religion. It's nothing that came about after the Time of Troubles, though maybe it was an affirmation of the Adama.

So, I believe the DoD Anu-worshipping Durpari in the Raurin are ethnic Durpari who left Adama-worshipping Durpar over religious differences – Anu and Adama are basically antithetical to each other – either by being forced out or leaving willingly, and went into the Raurin. DoD page 5 says "They were driven by two motives beyond those of trade alone: as members of the one god Anu, they were sworn to the destruction of the idols of the older gods of the Raurindi, and they were secretly ashamed that they had deserted the land to the Raurindi. Thus they came back to the desert with the glint of gold in their eyes, and a hatred of the Raurindi and all they stood for in their hearts." DoD makes it clear they took over, fought, and converted the Raurindi, "many years ago".

Supporting this, The Horde campaign setting, page 19, says "The final act of this period was the invasion of the Durparans. Crossing the Raurin Desert, a dissident force from Durpar seized the weak state of Solon. The city easily fell to the army of the evil Amchubar Devayam. With Solon in his grasp, Devayam attempted to conquer the isolated Ra-Khati. Nearly successful, he was finally beaten and forced to return to Solon." So, dissidents did leave Durpar on a mission of conquest of the Raurin (with one army led by Ambuchar Devayam, who is of course the notorious Tan Chin). Storm Riders sets the attack on Ra-Khati as "nearly fifty years ago", so ''circa'' 1300 DR.

Finally, all those temples to odd gods in Medinat Muskawoon would've been built in its heyday, before it fell in the curse of Amun-Re a 1000-or-so years before, so the mid-300s DR. However, that's three centuries before the Ffolk and Northman colonization of the Utter East, so the connection is unlikely.
https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Utter_East#Western_colonization

(I finally finished detailing Blood & Magic for the Forgotten Realms Wiki! I still have so much more to do on this area, though.)

---

quote:

---

The Durpari saw the re-establishment of trade across the desert as a way to return to their heritage

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by BadCatMan

That was the "Utter East Campaign + MAP!!!" thread on the old WotC forums. Pretty much completely lost now. I saved all the pages for personal reference, and never really looked at them again. So many ideas I'd do differently now.

Part of the problem with DoD, of course, is that it's rewritten from earlier, non-FR modules, with the Symbayans and Thunes, who are related peoples, changed to Durpari and Raurindi, respectively, who are not. Anu was not renamed, but in the original version, the Symbayans were converted to Anu in only the previous few decades. In the FR version, it's many Raurindi who converted to Anu and were absorbed by Durpari, "many years ago".

And don't forget, Durpari worship of the Adama is not a new thing – it dates back to #8722;256 DR, and the Durpari quickly made its prophet Satama their Maharajah, making it a state religion. It's nothing that came about after the Time of Troubles, though maybe it was an affirmation of the Adama.

So, I believe the DoD Anu-worshipping Durpari in the Raurin are ethnic Durpari who left Adama-worshipping Durpar over religious differences – Anu and Adama are basically antithetical to each other – either by being forced out or leaving willingly, and went into the Raurin. DoD page 5 says "They were driven by two motives beyond those of trade alone: as members of the one god Anu, they were sworn to the destruction of the idols of the older gods of the Raurindi, and they were secretly ashamed that they had deserted the land to the Raurindi. Thus they came back to the desert with the glint of gold in their eyes, and a hatred of the Raurindi and all they stood for in their hearts." DoD makes it clear they took over, fought, and converted the Raurindi, "many years ago".

Supporting this, The Horde campaign setting, page 19, says "The final act of this period was the invasion of the Durparans. Crossing the Raurin Desert, a dissident force from Durpar seized the weak state of Solon. The city easily fell to the army of the evil Amchubar Devayam. With Solon in his grasp, Devayam attempted to conquer the isolated Ra-Khati. Nearly successful, he was finally beaten and forced to return to Solon." So, dissidents did leave Durpar on a mission of conquest of the Raurin (with one army led by Ambuchar Devayam, who is of course the notorious Tan Chin). Storm Riders sets the attack on Ra-Khati as "nearly fifty years ago", so ''circa'' 1300 DR.

Finally, all those temples to odd gods in Medinat Muskawoon would've been built in its heyday, before it fell in the curse of Amun-Re a 1000-or-so years before, so the mid-300s DR. However, that's three centuries before the Ffolk and Northman colonization of the Utter East, so the connection is unlikely.
https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Utter_East#Western_colonization

(I finally finished detailing Blood & Magic for the Forgotten Realms Wiki! I still have so much more to do on this area, though.)

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Gary Dallison

If I recall correctly the imaskari are related to the durpari and likely came to raurin from durpar.

If it were me I would have rauri being the people (like durpari), and imaskari were but one group of these rauri people. Then the region gets named raurin and when the mulhorandi arrive the people left from imaskar become raurindi (mixing their raurin heritage and their mulhorandi overlord naming conventions).

Just my two cents.

As for adama and anu, I had the raurindi people adopting the worship of the mulan heroes that saved them, certain tribes favouring certain of the gods depending on their location (the encyclopedia magica and the write up of the flail of the desert kings hints that the mulhorandi and untheric people established a short lived kingdom in raurin after the fall of imaskar, and this kingdom was split into two sub kingdoms roughly corresponding to mulhorand and unther).

The durpari with their worship of the one influenced these raurindi tribes as they traded with them and ultimately the raurindi adopt the idea of a single god with many aspects but keep the name of this god as anu rather than using the durpari name of adama.

Again just my two cents, but even the gods and their worship should be mutable with the passage of time.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by sleyvas


Just curious the -256 DR for the adama thing, that from GHotR? Reason why I'm saying this is that IF something happened after the ToT (and I'm not totally sold on the idea, but just trying to see if its even possible), then I'd expect all records to get changed to the new name (the magic needs to be that pervasive, and in the case of other deities where this type of stuff happens, that's the kind of stuff that happens).

Gonna look through a bunch of these other responses. I do picture a lof of the old temples to be from LONG ago, as in I was picturing many of them coming to be built prior to the fall of Netheril. The general concept I had with the Ffolk and Northmen was one I didn't make clear. Basically, I'm wondering if the Ffolk and Northmen that come down there, aren't a second wave, possibly due to some portal that fluctuates on occasion (like the one in the Shaar, which I think may have brought a lot of northmen folk who eventually settle in Ulgarth). I need to reread that whole thing in GHotR, but if the people's that created the temples in the desert area spread to other parts of the world via portals, then perhaps later their descendants return to these areas because of those same portal (i.e. a two way thing).

---