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Originally posted by Scimitars of Drizzt

Hey all,

I'm pretty uneducated when it comes to Realms lore in general, but I've been slowly learning. I have some generic, and some very specific questions, and I'm hoping somebody can provide further clarity on these subjects. I get the Realms are a campaign setting, and that Faerun exists there on the planet Toril.

I've read all articles on the FR wiki relating to these concerns, but I'm still having trouble in understanding some of the nuances of the Realm, and its physics.

1. I've seen that D&D 1st edition takes place in 1357 or 1358. Now take editions 2-5 and consider all information - everything they added in those editions - throughout the years: I am to obviously assume that any work of published fiction in the Realms that takes place in 1358 or before is only taking into consideration the information in D&D 1st edition, correct? Any new creature, spell, event, detail, etc, that is introduced in editions 2-5 would be taking place past 1358, so they can't exist in a piece of fiction taking place before 1358. I'm hoping I understand this right, and if not please help me get it right. What are the exceptions, if any?

2. If applicable, a specific example I'm interested in to the above would be hags: I believe only sea hags (and maybe night hags) were the only variant that existed in the 1st edition. This means that prior to 1358, no other types of hags existed, right? Or are we to assume that in this instance, nobody simply knew of the existence of other hag variants in Faerun, but they could still theoretically exist before 1358? This is basically what I'm asking, but for all accounts of data in editions 2-5. I mean, obviously new locations/events gotta not exist pre-edition, but I'm wondering if it is to be assumed that some details of information (see #5. lines 2&3) could exist but just not be "known".

3. I'm still trying to completely understand who and what races are able to practice magic. Take clerics and divine magic for example. On FR wiki, it's stated that worshipers of Talos include ravagers, raiders, looters, and brigands. Would this mean that literally any entity of any race could worship Talos if they were a raider, for example? I'm just wondering if there could be any restrictions because any given entity should/could be worshiping a more suitable god. I get they would need true devotion to draw on any powers, but I'm just wondering the entirety of the restrictions, if any.

4. Take a silly, extreme example to the above: what would happen if Cadderly whole-heartedly started worshiping Bane. Considering Cadderly' prowess, would he be able to slowly gain the favor of Bane, and draw on his powers, or would Deneir himself perhaps interfere somehow, preventing this? I know it would never happen, but the answer would help me understand how clerical magic works, greatly, in combination with thoughts from #3 above.

5. Continuing on with clerics AND hags, specifically sea hags. The FR wiki states that sea hags can train as fighters, barbarians, and clerics. I found everything but the latter to be kind of weird, but the cleric part caught my eye. Assuming this information isn't actually new to editions 2-5 (I know they added general hag lore in addition to more hag types in those editions, so this ties to my 1st question too; Idk if any new generalized info from editions 2-5 can exist pre 1358?) as I'm not sure, who would a hag be more likely to worship for clerical magic? I see the Hag Countess was alive in 1358, but she wasn't particularly powerful, and the FR wiki doesn't state she had worshipers. Is it possible a sea hag could have been a cleric of the Hag Countess in 1358? (maybe she isn't powerful enough, idk) Even if yes or no, would that even make sense considering a greater evil god could provide the hag with greater powers?

6. Lastly, I want to talk about Arcane magic. I understand it takes great discipline, and not everyone can just start wielding powerful magic, but is it possible that virtually any race could learn magic? What are the restrictions? For example, it's conceivable that a warrior halfling could spend enough effort to learn a single spell, say levitate? I'm pretty sure halflings never study magic, so I chose that example in specific, wondering if it's possible.

Sorry if some of these questions seem obvious, for a lot of them I am truly almost certain, but clarity is my blind spot. Thank you.

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Originally posted by George Krashos

If you want to appreciate the Forgotten Realms, don't try and do it while clutching the Players Handbook.

-- George Krashos

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Originally posted by LordofBones

Cegilune, the Hag Queen, is the racial goddess of hags.

Anyone can study magic. The halfling warrior better get ready to learn grease before levitate though, seeing as levitate is a higher level spell.

And no, you don't need to be a specific race or class to worship a god. Brigands and robbers worship Talos because he appeals to them as deity of might makes right; that doesn't mean they wouldn't worship Mask or Set or Cyric.

Number Four is a bit of an odd question. Cadderly is Deneir's Chosen and possibly his most powerful servant. Losing him to Bane, his traditional archenemy, would be a massive blow to him and a huge feather in Bane's cap. If Bane finds him to be sufficiently loyal (as in, actually, genuinely loyal to his dogma), then the tyrant-god would effectively have, if not another Chosen, a very powerful servant.

Deneir can't interfere in the clerical link between Bane and Cadderly. The link between a cleric and his god is personal.

Also, with regard to #5, the Hag Countess was just a powerful night hag that had been accepted into the baatezu nobility. She's not actually venerated over, say, their actual goddess, Cegilune, or evil deities of the fey, or evil nature gods.

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Originally posted by Gary Dallison

And robbers and brigands like almost everyone else in the realms actually worship all the gods. A few might favour one above the rest but they still offer veneration to any god appropriate to their current situation.

Only priests and zealots worship only a single god to the exclusion of all others (and even they offer lip service to a few of the others just in case).



If you want to learn about the forgotten realms the best place to start is the old edition sourcebooks. Start with the 1e or 2e campaign setting to learn about all the places. Then pick a region and get hold of the sourcebooks for that region. As you find bits that interest you (like the zhentarim or the harpers or the cult of the dragon) then get hold of those sourcebooks.

Read the novels if you want but keep in mind that the novels are always the exception to the rule, not the norm.

And anything you dont understand or want to know more specifics about come on these forums and ask.

Thats how i learned about the realms

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Originally posted by sleyvas

What you need to understand from an outsiders view before reading the below is that you are thinking from a very logical perspective. However, one of the chief concepts of world design is to not build everything at once. You won't have every good idea right up front. Thus, a lot of the "backstory" of the realms was only contrived 5 to 30 years after the original boxed set and original regional source book releases as NEW authors came in and added their takes on a region. For instance, one guy wrote Empire of the Sands, and it got a basic regional idea. Then R.A. Salvatore fleshed out Calimport some for Calimshan. Then Steven Schend & Dale Donovan wrote Empires of the Shining Sea. Then other snippets were written all over the place in other products.

#1 would be incorrect. Plenty of history and such were written in later editions that "occurs" prior to 1357. The editions aren't "hard facts" when it comes to the game. So, someone could play a game with, for instance, specialist wizards and set said game in 300 DR if they wanted to. Similarly, some people LIKE the lore for the 1360's and early 1370's, but they want to use 5th edition rules.

#2 would also be incorrect. The various versions of hags simply "weren't well documented yet" would be a good way to describe away discrepancies

#3 any race can worship any god. In much earlier editions of the game, only certain races could be clerics though, and there were limits on how high in level they could go. This clearly made no sense. To note though, worship and being clerics are different. A person can worship a god and receive no magic in return, and in fact most people are this way. Most people also honor more than one god. A cleric or druid or some other spellcasting class that is divine in origin is a special kind of devotion.

#4 a cleric can switch gods. Fzoul Chembryl for instance served several different gods in his time.

#5 & #6 Prior to 3rd edition, there were controls in place to prevent certain races from taking certain classes. To note, that is almost 20 years ago now (almost half my mortal life). So things like dwarven and halfling wizards were "impossible" in prior editions (which led to debates as to what race and class the dungeon master was in the d&d cartoon, because to many of us he looked like a halfling more than a gnome or dwarf or short human)

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Originally posted by sleyvas

So things like dwarven and halfling wizards were "impossible" in prior editions (which led to debates as to what race and class the dungeon master was in the d&d cartoon, because to many of us he looked like a halfling more than a gnome or dwarf or short human)

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Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

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Originally posted by sleyvas

So things like dwarven and halfling wizards were "impossible" in prior editions (which led to debates as to what race and class the dungeon master was in the d&d cartoon, because to many of us he looked like a halfling more than a gnome or dwarf or short human)

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I think he looks more like a gnome, myself. I never would have thought about statting him up, though... I wonder if he was statted in that little book that came with the DVDs? Have to dig out my copy of that, now...

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Originally posted by bloodtide_the_red



1.It is a mess. From the real world perspective, only things that have been created can be in a work. If you read something published in the early 1990's, it would be full of "The Spellplauge" on every other page. Of course newer works often 'go back in time'. And while the 1E/2E change was a well done event that changed things in the Realms in universe, sadly all the other editions were not like that. Starting with 3E came the reton that THIS editions things have always been this way from the dawn of time. So for 3, 4, and 5E the whole fabric of Realms reality was changed three times; each to make the current edition the One True Official Realms.

Though that being said, it does depend on the writer. Some writers like and respect Realms history, and some destroy it to be Super Cool. So sometimes a story set in the past will use timeline appropriate things, and sometimes 1350DR Realms will be crawling with Dragonborn Warlocks because the dragonborn have officially always been there.

Though all that being said a lot or works, and a HUGE amount of the fiction don't exactly "follow" the rules at all. And unless the writer name drops "official 4th or 5th edition buzz words" every other paragraph, you might not even know "when" a novel or story takes place.

2.1E (and 0E) had (green) Hags, Night Hags, Sea Hags and Annis Hags. A lot of the others did not come around until 2E or 3E, BUT yes they could have been there all along.

3.All races can use magic. Anyone can worship any god.

4.Cadderly, any cleric or any person can change gods at any time. Realmslore is full of examples of this, and while it's not common, it's not unknown.

5.A hag could worship any god. Cegilune does not come up until 2E, but she might have always been there. Talos, Malar, Bane and Umberlee are the more obvious deity's a hag might worship.

6.Yes and none. Some editions did forbid magic use by some races. For example in 1E/2E halflings could NOT be Bards EVER. But Realms fiction did have Olive...a, er, halfling thief that liked music and said she was a 'bard'. But free from the editions any race can use magic.

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Originally posted by CorellonsDevout

As others have said, anyone can worship any god. Most gods won't turn away followers. Of course, elves, gnomes, dwarves, halflings, etc, are most likely go to worship their own pantheon. Also, most Faerunians are polytheistic, worshiping various gods throughout their lives, though most will end up venerating one above the others. This is the god that is most likely to take in their soul when they enter the afterlife.

The editions build on each other, so some things that weren't fleshed out in an older edition will be in a later edition. Of course, there have been retcons and discrepancies. The novels are, for the most part canonical, as they often cover big events in the world, and the novels are often used to showcase said event and move the edition forward (Time of Troubles, Spellplague, Sundering, etc). Some authors take better care to fact check than others, but some of the novels are in fact good for lore (I always suggest Elaine Cunningham).

I know you said in a previous comment that you haven't been able to get your hands on the sourcebooks yet, but when you do, the ones from older editions are particular good for lore. Some of my favorites are Demihuman Deities, Faiths & Avatars, Player's Guide to Faerun, and the 3.0 FR Campaign Guide. I myself haven't played D&D much, but I will use sourcebooks to gain learn more lore. The wiki is great, but I wouldn't rely on it as your sole source.

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Originally posted by Zzdtri

Thanks, bloodtide!

Wow, things really look bleak, the way you put it
A real shame. I might not remember it exactly as it was, but it seems to me that things used to be much more "vibrant" back then. What the hell happened?! Was Ed cut out or something? What about the others?

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