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Originally posted by Zeromaru X

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Originally posted by cpthero2

Great Reader sleyvas,

I can absolutely concur with the outlook that people of Thay may not see themselves as evil. It's all about what they've been acculturated too, in terms or values, ethics, and morals. Clearly Thay is a consequentialist country focusing on what delivers the best (Utilitarian specifically) to the masses. That's why the silliness of how alignment is dealt with in D&D in general is so childish. It reduces the very nature of people, why they make their decisions for a job, to take a life, to be kind, or mean, to plot map.

The Realms are a lot richer, because they are grayer, with all of the values based issues. People love to have it easy and have clear cut choices, etc., but we all know, that's not how it works.

The best characters deal with those moral and ethical quandaries all the time.

Best regards,

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Oh, yeah. But the "grey morality dilemma" can be used either in Nazi Thay and in Undead Thay. It's not something inherent of a given version of something.

Anyway, I read Unapproachable East's section about Thay, and I found that slaves there are harshly treated (see the Rashemi entry) and that they are non-persons without any rights. I didn't find any entry saying they were "well-treated" or something like that. So, basically, no different between Thayan slaves and Thayan undead... or between Thay, and Calimshan, or Unther, or *insert here any other slaver nation of pre-Spellplague Faerūn*...

Again, I fail to see the alure of the pre-undead Thay.

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Originally posted by cpthero2

Master Zeromaru X,

Oh, I concur with your point about the slaves: slaves are not people there. That's just how Thay is. Pro-slavery, deny basic rights, etc. When I was talking about how the "people" likely didn't see themselves as evil, I was talking about the non-slaves. Slaves as far as I've read as well in Thay are just that: sub-species, not worthy of anything, so we wouldn't include them in any relevant discussions about rights, privileges, etc.

For me, the pre-undead Thay is alluring because of its potential. The unabashed approach to magic that they take which in many other countries would be denied because of risk to life, property, and more. They could be a real powerhouse nation that could have so much more influence in their region, and by that, create more fantastic adventuring opportunities for characters. :)

Best regards,

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Originally posted by Zeromaru X

quote:

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Originally posted by cpthero2

Master Zeromaru X,

Oh, I concur with your point about the slaves: slaves are not people there. That's just how Thay is. Pro-slavery, deny basic rights, etc. When I was talking about how the "people" likely didn't see themselves as evil, I was talking about the non-slaves. Slaves as far as I've read as well in Thay are just that: sub-species, not worthy of anything, so we wouldn't include them in any relevant discussions about rights, privileges, etc.

For me, the pre-undead Thay is alluring because of its potential. The unabashed approach to magic that they take which in many other countries would be denied because of risk to life, property, and more. They could be a real powerhouse nation that could have so much more influence in their region, and by that, create more fantastic adventuring opportunities for characters. :)

Best regards,

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I see. It makes sense, even if I still see it as a place of evil. Just change undead for evil living magi.

Do you know sources where I can learn more about the original Thay. Even if I never use it, it's good to know how it was before Szass Tam. As already mentioned, I have the 3e Unapproachable East sourcebook.

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