Author |
Topic |
Shadowlord
Master of Realmslore
USA
1298 Posts |
Posted - 26 Apr 2004 : 07:27:01
|
I was wondering if some of the scribes could provide me with some information not given in the Book of Vile Darkness about the rulers of the Nine Hells, preferably the Archdevil Mephistopheles. Player's Guide to Faerūn briefly touches on the fact that different Archdevils rule the different layers. I'd like to know more about the coup that Mephistopheles incited to cull betrayers, as well as more about Cania, the layer he rules. It interests me that a layer of intense cold exists in the Nine Hells...
|
The Chosen of Vhaeraun "Nature is governed by certain immutable rules. By virtue of claw and fang, the lion will always triumph over the goat.Given time, the pounding of the sea will wear away the stone. And when dark elves mingle with the lighter races, the offspring invariably take after the dark parent. It is all much the same. That which is greater shall prevail. Our numbers increase steadily, both through birth and conquest. The dark elves are the dominant race, so ordained by the gods." Ka'Narlist of the Ilythiiri. |
Edited by - Shadowlord on 02 May 2004 17:47:16
|
|
Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 26 Apr 2004 : 07:31:48
|
quote: Originally posted by Shadowlord
I was wondering if some of the scribes could provide me with some information not given in the Book of Vile Darkness about the rulers of the Nine Hells, preferably the Archdevil Mephistopheles. Player's Guide to Faerūn briefly touches on the fact that different Archdevils rule the different layers. I'd like to know more about the coup that Mephistopheles incited to cull betrayers, as well as more about Cania, the layer he rules. It interests me that a layer of intense cold exists in the Nine Hells...
2e's A Guide to Hell, plus the various Planescape material that detail's the Nine Hells and the rulers who rule over them..... |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
|
|
Lady Kazandra
Senior Scribe
Australia
921 Posts |
Posted - 26 Apr 2004 : 08:22:48
|
I have access to the Sage's vast library on planar lore Shadowlord, so I'll see what I can find.
|
"Once upon a time the plural of 'wizard' was 'war'." -- The Last Continent, by Terry Pratchett |
|
|
Lady Kazandra
Senior Scribe
Australia
921 Posts |
Posted - 26 Apr 2004 : 08:51:38
|
Okay, here's some juicy facts to whet you appetite Shadowlord -
- There is an ongoing conflict between the nativist faction (Mephistopholes and Dispater, most prominently) and the immigrant faction (Baalzebul and Belial, most prominently). Those four are the focal point of a major ideological battle in the Nine Hells.
- The one important thing to remember about Baator and it's history is that it is constantly being revised by the Ministry of Morale.
- Caina was named by Dante for the first traitor, Cain. (The misspelling "Cania" has been perpetuated in "Planescape"). It is the spiritual home of all those who in choosing hate betrayed those closest to them through natural or social law. That this is the deepest level of Lawful Evil is most fitting -- the final rejection of love itself, clearly reasoned and coldly thought-out. According to Christian lore, the first evil being betrayed supreme Goodness and is to be found at the center of this realm. Contrary to rumor, the routes to this place are clearly-marked and easy to follow. Leaving will probably be more difficult. It is a realm of heartless cold and darksome beauty. Huge glaciers, avalanches, and eternal ice storms dominate the region. The locals -- living and dead -- are egomaniacs, and they talk incessantly about how they have made the "right choice", and that ideas of "kindness", "humility", and "forgiveness" are degrading stupidity. They will remind the player characters of all their misdeeds, trying to prove that they are really lawful-evil aligned and should drop the pretense of goodness and love. Here the legions of Baator embrace the darkest spirituality. This is a common location for the headquarters of sects devoted to vanity and "the quest for excellence". All roads lead to the center, Malsheem, Palace of Supreme Excellence (satanic pride), where the full glamor of evil is displayed, and the glittering decorations are the dead who betrayed their lords and benefactors. The floor and walls smoke if they are even touched by a being not of Lawful Evil alignment. At the bottom level of Malsheem is a branch of the River Jordan, offering travel directly to Mount Celestia. This stream arises from melting ice, and utterly destroys any evil creature which touches it. Escape from this layer may also be possible by passing a test of loyalty to goodness, and willingness to put kindness and love before vanity and achievement.
More to come . . .
|
"Once upon a time the plural of 'wizard' was 'war'." -- The Last Continent, by Terry Pratchett |
|
|
Lady Kazandra
Senior Scribe
Australia
921 Posts |
Posted - 26 Apr 2004 : 09:00:08
|
Here's a little more -
- Cania, the eighth layer of the Nine Hells is a realm of pure cold. But, Cania's cold is so bitterly penetrating that it is like a living entity. Gigantic glaciers move as fast as a running prime, grinding and crashing against each other in an unholy dance of destruction. These crashes send avalanches of snow crushing down upon any creature that is unfortunate enough to have found it's way to this horrid layer. The moving glaciers will sometimes reveal thousand-year-old corpses - past victims of the chilling ice, and the unfortunate barmies who'd attempted to cross the path of the layer's lord, Mephistopheles
- The frigid cold of this plane penetrates even the warmest clothing. PCs take 3d10 points of cold damage every round they are in an unsheltered are of Cania.
Again, more to come . . .
|
"Once upon a time the plural of 'wizard' was 'war'." -- The Last Continent, by Terry Pratchett |
|
|
Arravis
Seeker
USA
93 Posts |
|
Shadowlord
Master of Realmslore
USA
1298 Posts |
Posted - 26 Apr 2004 : 20:07:59
|
Indeed, thank you, both Lady Kazandra and Arravis, for your astounding collection of facts. I am still looking for any and all information I can find about Cania (or Caina, thanks for clarifying ) and it's ruler, Mephistopheles. |
The Chosen of Vhaeraun "Nature is governed by certain immutable rules. By virtue of claw and fang, the lion will always triumph over the goat.Given time, the pounding of the sea will wear away the stone. And when dark elves mingle with the lighter races, the offspring invariably take after the dark parent. It is all much the same. That which is greater shall prevail. Our numbers increase steadily, both through birth and conquest. The dark elves are the dominant race, so ordained by the gods." Ka'Narlist of the Ilythiiri. |
|
|
Arravis
Seeker
USA
93 Posts |
Posted - 26 Apr 2004 : 20:18:34
|
If you come across some new information that I can add to the PDF, please let me know. It was made last year, but except for just a handful of things here and there it's should be pretty up to date. I started with the original AD&D stuff, old dragon magazines and worked my way forward through Planescape, etc.
The random encounter tables are my personal favorite :) |
|
|
Arivia
Great Reader
Canada
2965 Posts |
Posted - 26 Apr 2004 : 20:40:39
|
Thank you for that font of knowledge, Arravis.
I need to clean out my My Documents folder...it's some 9 gigabytes in size... |
|
|
Arravis
Seeker
USA
93 Posts |
Posted - 26 Apr 2004 : 21:01:18
|
Thanks, alot of work went into it. Except for the random encounter charts, most of it isn't my own. It's gathered mostly from official D&D sources (and where none were available I used some excellent web sources out there, www.realmsofevil.net, for example :)), at times re-written to fit current lore and edited together. I probably put way too many hours into it, but I think it works ok overall, so it was worth it.
I have only now begun lurking at Candlekeep and I regret not originally posting it here. Anyway... I'll have to post some of the other stuff I've done (A DM's Guide to Phlan for example). |
|
|
Lady Kazandra
Senior Scribe
Australia
921 Posts |
Posted - 27 Apr 2004 : 06:07:23
|
Just a word of note - some of the information from my second post of Cania comes from the Nine Hells resource. I recommend all those with an interest in the levels of Baator to download this file. It's a impressive collection of facts and random encounter charts for adventuring in the Nine Hells.
|
"Once upon a time the plural of 'wizard' was 'war'." -- The Last Continent, by Terry Pratchett |
|
|
Lady Kazandra
Senior Scribe
Australia
921 Posts |
Posted - 27 Apr 2004 : 06:09:07
|
quote: Originally posted by Shadowlord
Indeed, thank you, both Lady Kazandra and Arravis, for your astounding collection of facts. I am still looking for any and all information I can find about Cania (or Caina, thanks for clarifying ) and it's ruler, Mephistopheles.
The Sage is putting together some special information on Mephistopheles as I type this Shadowlord. I'm not sure whether he plans to visit Candlekeep today, but the next few posts on information on both the layer and it's lord will most likely be from him.
|
"Once upon a time the plural of 'wizard' was 'war'." -- The Last Continent, by Terry Pratchett |
|
|
Arravis
Seeker
USA
93 Posts |
Posted - 27 Apr 2004 : 14:32:57
|
Lady Kazandra, which Nine Hell's resource are you referring to? Just curious... |
|
|
Lady Kazandra
Senior Scribe
Australia
921 Posts |
Posted - 27 Apr 2004 : 16:14:29
|
Your work actually, from the file you provided for download it would appear . I remember that you made the details concerning Cania available on the very first incarnation of the RoE PS boards.
I apologise for the double-posting, I didn't know it came from a full document .
|
"Once upon a time the plural of 'wizard' was 'war'." -- The Last Continent, by Terry Pratchett |
|
|
Arravis
Seeker
USA
93 Posts |
Posted - 27 Apr 2004 : 17:12:28
|
Ahh, that explains that. I was worried that there was another Hell document out there and that I missed including that info. Anyway, I'm glad you guys have found it useful :).
On a side note, I originally put together the document for my own game, since the PC's would be going to hell a. I re-read Dante's Inferno, read sections of Paradise Lost, and I even bought Barlowe's Inferno (great book, available through Amazon) to better help me come up with the imagery I wanted the player's to experience.
I wanted hell to be 3 parts horrifying and 1 part seductive. I spent alot of time going over unique encounters they would have (carpets made out of human scalps, sets of weird piping noises which were the screams of headless petitioners, etc). Anyway, in the end, it seems I did my job too well. My players hated it, saying it was miserable and just too oppressive. The utter sense of hopeless and all the pain around them sucked any entertainment value from it. It was "hell", pun intended.
Anyway, I guess the lesson there is to try to infuse some hope perhaps, in DM'ng hell game. It might be more "accurate" to have hell feel like a relentless and utterly cruel force of nature, but it might make for a better game to give the players some reprieve from it once in a while when they are there. |
Edited by - Arravis on 27 Apr 2004 17:15:12 |
|
|
Shadowlord
Master of Realmslore
USA
1298 Posts |
Posted - 27 Apr 2004 : 20:03:29
|
quote: Originally posted by Lady Kazandra
The Sage is putting together some special information on Mephistopheles as I type this Shadowlord. I'm not sure whether he plans to visit Candlekeep today, but the next few posts on information on both the layer and it's lord will most likely be from him.
Excellent, I look forward to it. |
The Chosen of Vhaeraun "Nature is governed by certain immutable rules. By virtue of claw and fang, the lion will always triumph over the goat.Given time, the pounding of the sea will wear away the stone. And when dark elves mingle with the lighter races, the offspring invariably take after the dark parent. It is all much the same. That which is greater shall prevail. Our numbers increase steadily, both through birth and conquest. The dark elves are the dominant race, so ordained by the gods." Ka'Narlist of the Ilythiiri. |
|
|
The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
|
VEDSICA
Senior Scribe
USA
466 Posts |
Posted - 29 Apr 2004 : 03:55:42
|
You folks are awesome!!! |
LIFE,BIRTH,BLOOD,DOOM---THE HOLE IN THE GROUND IS COMING ROUND SOON----BLS |
|
|
The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
|
Arravis
Seeker
USA
93 Posts |
Posted - 29 Apr 2004 : 06:43:08
|
If he's including me in that, I just don't like being called "folk".
Awesome I'll take though, lol. Not out of any kind of actual talent, but simply for the time investment, hehe. That Hell pdf took me alot longer to put together then I care to admit... |
Edited by - Arravis on 29 Apr 2004 06:47:57 |
|
|
The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 29 Apr 2004 : 06:56:15
|
I think you did actually...in the same topic that the Lady Kazandra mentioned during our time at RoE.
Still, I could be mistaken. It was an awfully long time ago .
|
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
|
|
DDH_101
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1272 Posts |
Posted - 29 Apr 2004 : 15:08:13
|
Arravis, that stuff you have on Hell was really detailed and useful. Where did you find all that information? |
"Trust in the shadows, for the bright way makes you an easy target." -Mask |
|
|
Arravis
Seeker
USA
93 Posts |
Posted - 29 Apr 2004 : 15:26:30
|
DDH_101, I started with the basic 1st edition books, went through older Dragon magazines, then made my way through some of the later 1st edition books (Manual of the Planes, etc). From there I went on to the 2nd edition info (and the Dragon magazines of that time), and went through my entire Planescape library. From there I went through all the 3rd edition stuff and Dragon magazine articles. From there I looked through Milton's Paradise Lost and Dante's Inferno. The last part was to look online (especially the www.realmsofevil.net planescape forums), to fill in the rest (especially since my Planescape collection isn't complete, it isn't missing much, but enough). I did find a wealth of info there, very handy.
Most of the work isn't my own (except for the random encounter tables, those are all mine :)), it's TSR's, WoTC's and the guys at Realms of Evil. Not that putting all that info together into one document was easy.
I very much regret not keeping track of the sources on it, so I could give proper credit. This project originally started just as a few DM's notes for my game. It wasn't meant for posting on the web, so I didn't keep track of the writers of my sources. But, it kept getting bigger and bigger, and my friends finally talked me into posting it. Anyway, to all the authors, my apologies. |
Edited by - Arravis on 29 Apr 2004 15:28:29 |
|
|
Shadowlord
Master of Realmslore
USA
1298 Posts |
Posted - 29 Apr 2004 : 16:05:00
|
Indeed. I truly thank you for this information, and I believe that Alaundo would love to feature it in Candlekeep's ever growing library... However, I am still looking for any information you can find. However, this time, I'm interestedin Zariel, fallen celestial, and the prior lord of Avernus.
|
The Chosen of Vhaeraun "Nature is governed by certain immutable rules. By virtue of claw and fang, the lion will always triumph over the goat.Given time, the pounding of the sea will wear away the stone. And when dark elves mingle with the lighter races, the offspring invariably take after the dark parent. It is all much the same. That which is greater shall prevail. Our numbers increase steadily, both through birth and conquest. The dark elves are the dominant race, so ordained by the gods." Ka'Narlist of the Ilythiiri. |
|
|
Arravis
Seeker
USA
93 Posts |
Posted - 29 Apr 2004 : 16:12:20
|
Not much info on him unfortunately beyond what's in the Hell pdf (and the sources it came from)... if you find something, let me know :(. |
Edited by - Arravis on 29 Apr 2004 16:16:21 |
|
|
The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 29 Apr 2004 : 16:46:34
|
Zariel the Fallen, and the former lord of Avernus...that's a tall order . Still, I know I have some significant information on that as well. I'll post that here though rather than include it with the other information on Cania and it's lord.
Again, I ask you to be patient, while I search my archives.
|
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
|
|
Shadowlord
Master of Realmslore
USA
1298 Posts |
Posted - 29 Apr 2004 : 20:46:48
|
After living on Toril for over three millenia, I believe I can wait a little longer... I do indeed realize that Zariel is a tall order, though I'm confident that the scribes won't be dissuaded. |
The Chosen of Vhaeraun "Nature is governed by certain immutable rules. By virtue of claw and fang, the lion will always triumph over the goat.Given time, the pounding of the sea will wear away the stone. And when dark elves mingle with the lighter races, the offspring invariably take after the dark parent. It is all much the same. That which is greater shall prevail. Our numbers increase steadily, both through birth and conquest. The dark elves are the dominant race, so ordained by the gods." Ka'Narlist of the Ilythiiri. |
|
|
The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 30 Apr 2004 : 07:26:37
|
Shadowlord, I've found some significant information concerning Zariel in my archives. I'll present it here for easy of reference -
quote: ZARIEL True Lord of the First Hell (imprisoned) The Destroyer, Angel of the Pit, Mother of Spiders Alliases: Zuriel, Zavebe AoC: Punishment, Imprisonment, Holy Crusades Superior: none Allies: Tiamat, Heironeous, Lilith, Baalphegor Rivals: Hextor, Bel, Dispater, Mephistopheles, Mammon, Geryon, Lolth After the great defections of Belial, Triel, and Iblis, there were some on Mount Glory who were not willing to let the traitors get away with mere exile. One of these was Zariel, an astral deva in the service of Heironeous, god of Justice. With the blessings of her patron, she followed the cross-traders to the Pit with the intention of destroying them. Quickly, she discovered that this would be harder than she had thought. The Fallen Ones had dispersed and, as far as Zariel could tell, been consigned to lemure status by the Lords of the Hells. Convinced that a frontal assault would not work, Zariel decided to try subtlety, and so sealed her doom. She volunteered her services to the baatezu, saying she wished to join her fellows in Evil's embrace. They took her at her word, melted her down into a lemure-thing, and allowed her to prove herself in their hierarchy. By the time she advanced to gelugon status, the good in her was long since burned away. Still she burned to punish her fellows, and this hate stood her in good stead. The Lord of Nessus noticed it and made her chief punisher of the first circle, telling her to hunt down and torment the exiled nobles who wandered the Avernian desolation. This she did with cold efficiency, making herself a parody of a court, with prisoners as courtiers. She expanded her wrath, organizing armies to make bolder assaults on the Blood War front. She also drove away the strongholds that Hextor and the goblin gods had made in her domain. Hextor, the so-called Herald of Hell, swore vengence. The only allies that Zariel made in that time was with Tiamat, whose abishai troops she made good use of, and with Baalphegor, who helped her create the elite keres, spider-legged baatezu that earned her the hatred of Lolth during their multiple raids on the Demonweb Pits. Eventually, the Angel of the Pit got the opportunity she had been waiting patiently for over the millennia. The other Lords began to trust her enough to let her in on their schemes. The layers of Baator were split between those who had once been celestials and those who were united in their hatred of them. Baalzebul (formally Triel) and Belial offered their allegience in exchange for her help in conspiring against their rivals. She accepted, inwardly chuckling with sinister delight, and began plans to turn her colleagues schemes into open war, a war all the lords would lose. Inflaming the others with progressively more fiery rhetoric, it was not too long as immortals reckon time before Zariel believed she was ready. With brazen hubris, she invaded the Iron City of Dis. Mephistopheles, Geryon, and Mammon swept down to stop her, and soon all of Baator was consumed in war. Though they were eventually all chastised, most - even Zariel - were given back their original positions, with some concessions. Fuming with anger, she began to plan an even bigger disaster. Before her plans could come to fruition, however, she was betrayed by her own generals. Bel, the pit fiend who had previously betrayed Dispater to serve the Mother of Spiders, led the other warlords of Zariel in an unexpected coup. With his subordinates orchestrating a siege, Bel broke in and battled the weakened Angel of the Pit, ultimately binding her in her own webs. With dark sorcery he warped her body, creating from it the first of his scarecrowlike hellwardens. Bel then locked her away until he could fully drain her of her power and gain full control of the layer. The Destroyer is imprisoned in a subterranean chamber deep beneath Bel's throne in his Bronze Citadel. Zariel has a long, serpentine body, eight spider legs, and a humanoid upper torso. Her fanged face has dozens of eyes. From her back grows dragon wings. Her hair is bound tightly back with hooks and chains. She has been horribly crucified, her limbs broken, twisted around her bonds, and allowed to heal, sealing her in a prison of her own flesh. Kocrachons attend her, increasing her agony and "milking" her power. Her blood leaks into a vessel from which Bel periodically drinks. One of the Pit Angel's tormentors has dared to drink some of the blood for herself, and is becoming increasingly changed. The once-kocrachon fears she may soon have to flee the Hells. Lilith, the so-called Hag Countess of Malbolge, has expressed sympathy for the Destroyer. She remembers her own period of bondage to Malbolge's previous ruler Lord Moloch. Still, she realizes that it might be more to her advantage to form a firm alliance with Bel, who like herself and Levistus is mistrusted by most of the other lords. Heironeous believes Zariel's punishment was unjust and that she can still be redeemed. He hopes to break her out and bring her to the Hospital of the Plane-Scarred in Celestia for rehabilitation.
|
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
|
|
Shadowlord
Master of Realmslore
USA
1298 Posts |
Posted - 01 May 2004 : 14:34:16
|
Thank you, Sage. This is indeed valuable information about Zariel. |
The Chosen of Vhaeraun "Nature is governed by certain immutable rules. By virtue of claw and fang, the lion will always triumph over the goat.Given time, the pounding of the sea will wear away the stone. And when dark elves mingle with the lighter races, the offspring invariably take after the dark parent. It is all much the same. That which is greater shall prevail. Our numbers increase steadily, both through birth and conquest. The dark elves are the dominant race, so ordained by the gods." Ka'Narlist of the Ilythiiri. |
|
|
The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 01 May 2004 : 14:42:51
|
If you are looking for more let me know. As I am collecting the information that I can find on Mephistopheles and Cania, I also digging up references to Zariel as well. It's not much, but there are some interesting tidbits.
|
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
|
|
Shadowlord
Master of Realmslore
USA
1298 Posts |
Posted - 01 May 2004 : 21:48:09
|
Actually, I am still looking for more. Thank ye, Sage. |
The Chosen of Vhaeraun "Nature is governed by certain immutable rules. By virtue of claw and fang, the lion will always triumph over the goat.Given time, the pounding of the sea will wear away the stone. And when dark elves mingle with the lighter races, the offspring invariably take after the dark parent. It is all much the same. That which is greater shall prevail. Our numbers increase steadily, both through birth and conquest. The dark elves are the dominant race, so ordained by the gods." Ka'Narlist of the Ilythiiri. |
|
|
Topic |
|
|
|