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Shadowlord
Master of Realmslore

USA
1298 Posts

Posted - 02 May 2004 :  17:43:12  Show Profile  Visit Shadowlord's Homepage Send Shadowlord a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Since we are now talking about more than just Mephistopheles, I think it would be safe to rename this scroll "The Archdevils and the Nine Hells," lest we incur Alaundo's wrath.

The Chosen of Vhaeraun
"Nature is governed by certain immutable rules. By virtue of claw and fang, the lion will always triumph over the goat.Given time, the pounding of the sea will wear away the stone. And when dark elves mingle with the lighter races, the offspring invariably take after the dark parent. It is all much the same. That which is greater shall prevail. Our numbers increase steadily, both through birth and conquest. The dark elves are the dominant race, so ordained by the gods." Ka'Narlist of the Ilythiiri.
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D-brane
Learned Scribe

United Kingdom
140 Posts

Posted - 07 May 2004 :  07:33:58  Show Profile  Visit D-brane's Homepage Send D-brane a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Since this thread now covers the entire Nine Hells, I feel that I can post some information that I have pertaining to the Dark Eight.

Here's the first of such updates. It's written in treatise form, although the first few lines should explain it's purpose more -
quote:
To: Malfeaz, Lord of Seven Darks, Master of Mungoth.

From: Herab Serap, Master of Ravens, Disperser of the Young.

Being an updated and expanded treatise on the secrets and weaknesses of Baator's DARK EIGHT, revised from the original document written by the Togarini in ages past.


BAALZEPHON, the Minister of Supply, is one of the two most ancient surviving members of the Eight, and the one who remains most free of entanglements with Baator's nobility. Baalzephon believes she most purely serves the purpose for which the Dark Eight were created, reducing the power of the Lords of the Nine.

Weaknesses: Baalzephon's arrogance has no equal in the rest of the Eight. She treats her ministry as if it were a feudal state and she its unquestioned lord. At the bottom of the Ministry of upply's ranks this is literally true, with spinagon peasants grimly tending herds of stench kine and petitioners, their situation as desperate as that of their mortal counterparts. In higher ranks are the ambassadors, knights, and merchant-princes who visit the courts of powerful entities throughout the planes to garner trade deals and contracts. Baalzephon herself wears the regalia of a mighty emperor, the solar orb and crown of Aerdy (a nation of the material plane that worships Baalzephon as Baalzi, god of wealth) her frequent symbol. Baalzephon is the only member of the Dark Eight that can afford to treat the Lords of the Nine (save the Deepest) with contempt. She does have an alliance with Hextor, a power of Acheron, who helped her create her army of undead animuses. In exchange, she razed a rakshasa city, something that does not endear her to that race (although they must trade with her representatives nonetheless). This, too, can be exploited.

If Baalzephon fuels the Blood War's physical needs, then ZIMIMAR fuels its will. Her ministry weaves epic stories of victories won and traitors suppressed, of conspiracies unraveled and foes outwitted. If you belive Zimimar's propaganda machine (and you will, one way or another), Baator is on the very brink of victory, always and continually. History is flux, perpetuatally rewritten to create an image across the planes of a Baator slowl, steadily progressing toward inevitable multiversal domination.

The present Minister of Morale is not the original Zimimar. The original was a duke in the service of Count Minauros. This original Zimimar, a male pit fiend, won fame in Minauros' court as head of the Count's osylut secret police, eclipsing even the terrible Duke Bael in esteem. As a result, he was easily able to win the right to command Minauros' armies during the Siege of Dis. What no one at the time knew was that Zimimar had been drawn into the fold of Cantrum of Nessus, as all the great generals were.

Exactly when Zimimar was assassinated and replaced, and indeed how many times, is unclear, for the present Zimimar has rewritten all records. She is now the original - she has made herself so by controlling Baator's belief. She has been Zimimar since the dawn of time. In the names of the Lords of the Nine, the Dark Eight have always ruled, Zimimar among them.

Zimimar's appearance changes continually, but official press releases assure us that it has always been the same. To better inspire the troops, she is usually a pit fiend of perfect symmetry, a paragon of strength and scaly beauty, but the details vary radically. Her human guises are always neatly attired and attractive, but still strong and forminable in their way. In any shape, she is always seen with a fixed, manic smile that she sees as reassuring, but which inspires terror in all who witness it.

Weaknesses: Perhaps Zimimar is mad. Perhaps the stress of manipulating the beliefs of the entire baatezu race has unhinged her brain, making it as twisted and contrary as her propaganda. Alone of the baatezu, she must remember all past narratives, keeping them straight in her mind in case they are needed again, or in case previous stories reemerge to become a threat. Perhaps the zealotry with which she urges the baatezu to battle and hunts down thought-criminals is fueled by the terror within her that someday she will forget, and become a prisoner of her own lies, created rather than creatrix. Such a fate, slave to her fictions like everyone else, is perhaps too much for her to bear.

"Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence."
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D-brane
Learned Scribe

United Kingdom
140 Posts

Posted - 07 May 2004 :  07:35:29  Show Profile  Visit D-brane's Homepage Send D-brane a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I'll probably cover Pearza next. He's the Minister of Research for the arch-devils of the Nine Hells.

"Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence."
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Shadowlord
Master of Realmslore

USA
1298 Posts

Posted - 07 May 2004 :  08:17:17  Show Profile  Visit Shadowlord's Homepage Send Shadowlord a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Extremely interesting, D-brane... Glad to see someone is finally shedding some light on the Generals of the Blood War.

The Chosen of Vhaeraun
"Nature is governed by certain immutable rules. By virtue of claw and fang, the lion will always triumph over the goat.Given time, the pounding of the sea will wear away the stone. And when dark elves mingle with the lighter races, the offspring invariably take after the dark parent. It is all much the same. That which is greater shall prevail. Our numbers increase steadily, both through birth and conquest. The dark elves are the dominant race, so ordained by the gods." Ka'Narlist of the Ilythiiri.
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D-brane
Learned Scribe

United Kingdom
140 Posts

Posted - 07 May 2004 :  13:25:40  Show Profile  Visit D-brane's Homepage Send D-brane a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I've never actually read alot regarding the Dark Eight anyway. Even the existant Planescape material is vague when it comes to detailing these exemplars of the ultimate Pit Fiend.

What I would like to see though, is some stats for these Fiends. I mean, we know they are more powerful than the average Pit Fiend, but are yet considered to be a grade below the power of the Arch-Devils.

"Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence."
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High

Australia
31774 Posts

Posted - 08 May 2004 :  03:18:56  Show Profile Send The Sage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by D-brane

I'll probably cover Pearza next. He's the Minister of Research for the arch-devils of the Nine Hells.


I see you've been mining my archives again D-brane .

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Sachiel
Acolyte

Australia
17 Posts

Posted - 19 May 2004 :  03:52:32  Show Profile  Visit Sachiel's Homepage Send Sachiel a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Does anyone have any detailed information on Nessus itself, preferrably Malsheem?

"Maybe all those people who think me a fool are onto something."
-- Danilo Thann, "Elfshadow"
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Lady Kazandra
Senior Scribe

Australia
921 Posts

Posted - 19 May 2004 :  06:37:37  Show Profile  Visit Lady Kazandra's Homepage Send Lady Kazandra a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Sachiel, you're going to have to be a little more specific. Both Nessus and Malsheem are very large areas, and the information I have access to (the Sage's of course ) is nearly as big. So in order for me to find something appropriate and useful, more specific search parameters will be required.

Is there anything that particularly deals with Malsheem that you want to know about?

"Once upon a time the plural of 'wizard' was 'war'." -- The Last Continent, by Terry Pratchett
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DDH_101
Master of Realmslore

Canada
1272 Posts

Posted - 19 May 2004 :  23:46:19  Show Profile  Visit DDH_101's Homepage Send DDH_101 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Speaking of Nessus, I read that the gate that leads to Nessus from Cania is guarded by 9999 devils. Is this the only way to get into Asmodeus's domain?

"Trust in the shadows, for the bright way makes you an easy target." -Mask
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The Cardinal
Senior Scribe

Canada
647 Posts

Posted - 20 May 2004 :  04:59:31  Show Profile  Visit The Cardinal's Homepage Send The Cardinal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Actually I myself have heard theories of Nessus being connected to some point in the upper planes... Of course this goes on the theory that Asmodeus 'fell' from somewhere and in striking ground created the Nine Hells... We cannot remember if this was written somewhere or we dreamed it up after reading Dante's Inferno.... The Real Dante's Inferno Book set and not that horrible movie...


It has to be Certain, the Gods Hate Me. For whatever irrevokable Fate, I have been made the walking Joke. Either that, or Beshaba is overlyfond Of Me.
-Unknown
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DDH_101
Master of Realmslore

Canada
1272 Posts

Posted - 20 May 2004 :  06:07:54  Show Profile  Visit DDH_101's Homepage Send DDH_101 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
PART of your theory was in the Book of Vile Darkness. It was said taht when Asmodeus fell to the Nine Hells, he suffered severe injuries, injuries that still aren't healed even today. The cause of this fall is unknown but it was probably a major battle with some celestia or deity.

However, the part about his fall creating the Nine Hells, I am not so sure about.

"Trust in the shadows, for the bright way makes you an easy target." -Mask
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High

Australia
31774 Posts

Posted - 20 May 2004 :  10:29:19  Show Profile Send The Sage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by DDH_101

Speaking of Nessus, I read that the gate that leads to Nessus from Cania is guarded by 9999 devils. Is this the only way to get into Asmodeus's domain?

That is the only way known to mortals (and most deities), yes. There is rumored to be another access portal from Nessus to Cania, but only Asmodeus and Mephistopheles know of it's existence. It is said to be an 'escape portal', in the very unlikely event that Asmodeus should he ever fall from power.

Actually, can you fall further than the ninth layer...?

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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High

Australia
31774 Posts

Posted - 20 May 2004 :  10:33:30  Show Profile Send The Sage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by DDH_101

PART of your theory was in the Book of Vile Darkness. It was said taht when Asmodeus fell to the Nine Hells, he suffered severe injuries, injuries that still aren't healed even today. The cause of this fall is unknown but it was probably a major battle with some celestia or deity.

However, the part about his fall creating the Nine Hells, I am not so sure about.

It's important to remember that when Asmodeus fell, there were no deities or celestials, only Jazirian. She was the likely cause of Asmodeus's fall, although some GRR products dispute this. It really all depends on which planar origin theory you accept as truth.

While I commonly believe the tales put forth in the 1e MotP and the PS setting, the Guide to Hell tome has some interesting points that cannot be dismissed so easily. Chris Pramas made certain of that...

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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)

"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood

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Sarta
Senior Scribe

USA
505 Posts

Posted - 21 May 2004 :  08:52:34  Show Profile Send Sarta a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage

Actually, can you fall further than the ninth layer...?



Gargauth: Yes... yes you can.



Sarta
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High

Australia
31774 Posts

Posted - 21 May 2004 :  09:45:45  Show Profile Send The Sage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Yes, although Gargauth was a unique example. It should be noted that many other 2e planar sources actually go as far to dispute this.

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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)

"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood

Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High

Australia
31774 Posts

Posted - 21 May 2004 :  09:56:49  Show Profile Send The Sage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Sachiel

Does anyone have any detailed information on Nessus itself, preferrably Malsheem?


Ask and you shall receive...eventually

Anyway Nessus, named for the lusty centaur, is the spiritual home of vicious sensualists, and also of domestic tyrants who exploited and abused the families they should have truly loved, turning "family values" into cruel tyranny. It is a windswept wasteland ("a waste of shame" -- Shakespeare ) under a dull-green sky filled with lightning. The winds may seem to whisper unspeakable things. The locals -- living and dead -- suffer in the storm, or in the bestial dungeons below the plane. They are fond of talking about how all love reduces to animal instinct, how "superior individuals" have a "duty to choose the finest breeders", how "interpersonal gratification" is the "right of those who have won power", and so forth. They may be suprisingly well-informed about any situations in which the player characters have played with the feelings of others. Many cults of sensuality, incest, and depravity have their headquarters here. They offer addictive pleasures, for which one may finally pay the ultimate price. At the center is the Palace of True Love (lust). Escape from this layer may be possible by passing a test of the player characters' ability to show genuine love without expecting anything in return.

I hope that helps and remember, as is always the way, I have more...

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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)

"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood

Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage
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cpthero2
Great Reader

USA
2286 Posts

Posted - 30 Sep 2018 :  16:08:55  Show Profile  Visit cpthero2's Homepage Send cpthero2 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Master Shadowlord,

Here are two sources you may enjoy (if you have not already enjoyed them):


Best regards,



quote:
Originally posted by Shadowlord

I was wondering if some of the scribes could provide me with some information not given in the Book of Vile Darkness about the rulers of the Nine Hells, preferably the Archdevil Mephistopheles. Player's Guide to Faerūn briefly touches on the fact that different Archdevils rule the different layers. I'd like to know more about the coup that Mephistopheles incited to cull betrayers, as well as more about Cania, the layer he rules. It interests me that a layer of intense cold exists in the Nine Hells...


Higher Atlar
Spirit Soaring
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