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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
 Posted - 14 Nov 2018 : 02:44:11
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I'd not even call it common amongst the 1% -- I think that's still too large a figure.
Either way, though, as I've been saying, it's not common for the setting as a whole. There's a hell of a difference between saying that magical communications are common amongst a fraction of 1%, as opposed to "It's very common in the setting fiction for most to communicate long distances, for example." |
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bloodtide_the_red
Learned Scribe
USA
302 Posts |
Posted - 14 Nov 2018 : 23:50:45
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I'd not even call it common amongst the 1% -- I think that's still too large a figure.
Again, I'd point to Realms fiction where anyone who is not a poor commoner has access to magical communication.
And the setting details that have at least ten mid level spellcasters in even small towns and maybe like a hundred or more in large cities.
The Realms is a setting where the "sage in the tower" or "tavern keeper" and "shop keeper" is a 16th level arch wizard, not a zero level commoner.
I guess you could say these hundreds of people never cast a communication spell and just sit around and hope a bard wanders by...but it does not really seem to fit. |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 15 Nov 2018 : 01:14:15
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| The people of the Realms tend to live in a "small" world anyhow. The wonderful gossip and happenings in faraway Waterdeep or even just the Moonsea are always interesting fare, the sort of stuff which makes travelling bards and wandering nobility into celebrities, but it's just not very central and has little impact on the lives of the Dalesfolk when crops need planting and barns need building. Not so much need to always have instant communication with people you'll hardly ever meet anyhow because you're separated by ten days of hard riding, unless you need to know whether they're raising an army or something. |
[/Ayrik] |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 15 Nov 2018 : 03:13:38
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quote:
Originally posted by bloodtide_the_red
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I'd not even call it common amongst the 1% -- I think that's still too large a figure.
Again, I'd point to Realms fiction where anyone who is not a poor commoner has access to magical communication.
And the setting details that have at least ten mid level spellcasters in even small towns and maybe like a hundred or more in large cities.
The Realms is a setting where the "sage in the tower" or "tavern keeper" and "shop keeper" is a 16th level arch wizard, not a zero level commoner.
I guess you could say these hundreds of people never cast a communication spell and just sit around and hope a bard wanders by...but it does not really seem to fit.
And I would point to the fact that more than 99.9% of the people in the Realms are the commoners who don't have access to magical communication spells. You speak of "hundreds of people" of people in a setting with millions, if not tens of millions, of people. Do the math.
And of that less than .1% who do have access, the majority of them are going to have better things to do with their time than try to stay on top of news and events in distant places, that they will never be affected by. And/or they're going to have better things to do than sit around and pretend to be a telephone for any passing commoner.
Just because someone can do something, it doesn't mean they have any reason or inclination to do it. The mere possibility of something is not proof of its existence.
Oh, and those 16th level tavern keepers you speak of? Those might be found in the larger communities -- but those same communities will have a lot more tavern keepers that are just regular joes, maybe as high as 5th level in a non-spellcasting class. And then there are all the communities that are simply too small to appear on any map -- most of those places would be lucky to have a 5th level wizard there.
You yourself said that the fiction focuses on the extraordinary people of the setting. You can't keep pointing to that as proof of what the common folk experience. I'm sticking with the words of the guy who created the setting, who said that most news comes from bards and merchants. |
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Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 15 Nov 2018 03:15:17 |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11827 Posts |
Posted - 15 Nov 2018 : 14:40:53
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| Wooly..... you keep forgetting the turkey overland messaging system (TOMS)... I think the emerald enclave faction created it. Granted it did have some "issues" delivering to Veldorn, Thar, Vaasa, and a few other countries... but I think they just started charging extra for those regions to cover the training of a new turkey. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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TheIriaeban
Master of Realmslore
USA
1289 Posts |
Posted - 15 Nov 2018 : 17:12:56
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quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
Wooly..... you keep forgetting the turkey overland messaging system (TOMS)... I think the emerald enclave faction created it. Granted it did have some "issues" delivering to Veldorn, Thar, Vaasa, and a few other countries... but I think they just started charging extra for those regions to cover the training of a new turkey.
That was only for long range communication. For short range stuff, they would just fox 'em. I believe I first heard about it in reference to some guy named Rabin Heed or something like that.
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"Iriaebor is a fine city. So what if you can have violence between merchant groups break out at any moment. Not every city can offer dinner AND a show."
My FR writeups - http://www.mediafire.com/folder/um3liz6tqsf5n/Documents
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TheIriaeban
Master of Realmslore
USA
1289 Posts |
Posted - 15 Nov 2018 : 17:23:32
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| I think it is funny how everyone has latched onto communication. There are other ways to integrate magic into everyday life. Nchaser's glowing globes for lighting is one. In that vein, there were similar spells researched to heat/cool homes and to preserve food. As a joke, someone even came up with one to deal with excrement. There can also be some other infrastructure type things like how one of the high level mages in our group worked with the Temple of Eldath in Iriaebor to purify the Iriaeban sewage before it was discharged into the Chionthar River. Now you can't tell how close you are to the city by how smelly the river is. |
"Iriaebor is a fine city. So what if you can have violence between merchant groups break out at any moment. Not every city can offer dinner AND a show."
My FR writeups - http://www.mediafire.com/folder/um3liz6tqsf5n/Documents
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 15 Nov 2018 : 19:41:51
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The 2E Shining South includes a spell for keeping the home cool.
A lot of that stuff has been left out of published lore, though, because it's just not flashy enough or of use to the PCs. |
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bloodtide_the_red
Learned Scribe
USA
302 Posts |
Posted - 15 Nov 2018 : 20:47:24
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
You yourself said that the fiction focuses on the extraordinary people of the setting. You can't keep pointing to that as proof of what the common folk experience. I'm sticking with the words of the guy who created the setting, who said that most news comes from bards and merchants.
You might be a bit to focused on the News and the Common Folk. The Realms does not have 'news networks' and the common people are just common: both are true.
Still, for anyone that is not a commoner they have access to magic communication (but, again, not "news").
And, again, I'd point you to The Creator that does have such non-commoners use magical communication in most of his fiction stories and does fill the world with 16th wizard tavern owners.
quote:
Originally posted by TheIriaeban
Nchaser's glowing globes for lighting is one.
Again, magical lighting is in use...for anyone who is not a commoner. Fiction is again, full of them. Drift globes are quite common in fiction and books.
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
A lot of that stuff has been left out of published lore, though, because it's just not flashy enough or of use to the PCs.
Ed Greenwood, and a couple others, do make a point to include such things in the Lore and Fiction. They don't make it much into the "All Combat" typical Realms book. Even more so from 3E on. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 15 Nov 2018 : 22:09:54
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quote:
Originally posted by bloodtide_the_red
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
You yourself said that the fiction focuses on the extraordinary people of the setting. You can't keep pointing to that as proof of what the common folk experience. I'm sticking with the words of the guy who created the setting, who said that most news comes from bards and merchants.
You might be a bit to focused on the News and the Common Folk. The Realms does not have 'news networks' and the common people are just common: both are true.
I've been focused on how common long-range magical communications are because of your words, emphasis mine: "It's very common in the setting fiction for most to communicate long distances, for example."
And I maintain that something that's an option for only a fraction of a percent of the population is not very common, and it's certainly not an option for most in the setting. |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 15 Nov 2018 : 22:30:03
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quote:
There are other ways to integrate magic into everyday life. Nchaser's glowing globes for lighting is one. In that vein, there were similar spells researched to heat/cool homes and to preserve food. As a joke, someone even came up with one to deal with excrement. There can also be some other infrastructure type things like how one of the high level mages in our group worked with the Temple of Eldath in Iriaebor to purify the Iriaeban sewage before it was discharged into the Chionthar River. Now you can't tell how close you are to the city by how smelly the river is.
Low-level magic can easily do many things like provide light, levitate and carry objects, dig holes, fix or maintain things, influence winds and waters and weather, attract lovers, repel vermin, etc. Not to mention "joke" spells which cure hangovers, cook delicious feasts, throw magic snowballs, leave long trails of glowing footprints - all kind of silly and all actually surprisingly useful. |
[/Ayrik] |
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bloodtide_the_red
Learned Scribe
USA
302 Posts |
Posted - 16 Nov 2018 : 00:12:49
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I've been focused on how common long-range magical communications are because of your words, emphasis mine: "It's very common in the setting fiction for most to communicate long distances, for example."
And I maintain that something that's an option for only a fraction of a percent of the population is not very common, and it's certainly not an option for most in the setting.
Well, what I said is accurate: It is common, in that most stories have it present. And most people, in the fiction, do use magical communication.
Though "the fiction" is about the uncommon people: the powerful people. Nobles, Governments, Merchants, Religions, Secret Societies, and Spellcasters. They are the ones with the very common access.
So, yes, it's not common for most of the common folk, but it is common to everyone else except them.
Again, like most magic, communication is a luxury. Powerful or rich people can afford it and use it, common people can't.
Like Drift Globes are common magic items, again you will find them in a lot of taverns, inns, government buildings, temples, shops and spellcaster homes. But again, Farmer Bob does not have one. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 16 Nov 2018 : 00:19:26
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| Even in the fiction, most people do not use magical communication. It is not common. |
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bloodtide_the_red
Learned Scribe
USA
302 Posts |
Posted - 17 Nov 2018 : 02:40:31
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Even in the fiction, most people do not use magical communication. It is not common.
Ok? How about used frequently by anyone who is not a common folk?
Most Realms novels have characters in the novel using magical communication, so it is there on the page to read. Though your correct in saying just as some importing powerful people use magical communication, there are like a million farmers that don't....but then they are not in the novels much anyway. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 17 Nov 2018 : 15:29:08
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| I honestly can't think of more than once or twice that magical communication has been used in novels -- and I've read most of them. The majority of the novels keep the focus on one group of characters that stays together, so there's no need for them to employ long-range communication methods. |
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TheIriaeban
Master of Realmslore
USA
1289 Posts |
Posted - 17 Nov 2018 : 16:28:57
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| Sadly, that leaves out one of the more fun modern movie genres: the heist movie. You could have a wizard scrying on the group that he hired or is a member of that needs to get something out of some location. He would be the equivalent of the computer guy that has hacked the security system. He could let them know what is ahead and even cast some spells that are usable through the scrying spell/item. With communication established with the group members, they could be doing their own little specialty. That way, you wouldn't have a single group going from one encounter to the next, slaughtering everyone they find. That could even lead to some very nice character driven dramatic tension: "Oh, crap, they have a hill giant here. Where is the ranger??? He can't kill it. It will bring the whole place down on us!" |
"Iriaebor is a fine city. So what if you can have violence between merchant groups break out at any moment. Not every city can offer dinner AND a show."
My FR writeups - http://www.mediafire.com/folder/um3liz6tqsf5n/Documents
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 17 Nov 2018 : 17:03:04
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quote:
Originally posted by TheIriaeban
Sadly, that leaves out one of the more fun modern movie genres: the heist movie. You could have a wizard scrying on the group that he hired or is a member of that needs to get something out of some location. He would be the equivalent of the computer guy that has hacked the security system. He could let them know what is ahead and even cast some spells that are usable through the scrying spell/item. With communication established with the group members, they could be doing their own little specialty. That way, you wouldn't have a single group going from one encounter to the next, slaughtering everyone they find. That could even lead to some very nice character driven dramatic tension: "Oh, crap, they have a hill giant here. Where is the ranger??? He can't kill it. It will bring the whole place down on us!"
Or embed a psionicist with the group.  |
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bloodtide_the_red
Learned Scribe
USA
302 Posts |
Posted - 18 Nov 2018 : 06:03:21
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I honestly can't think of more than once or twice that magical communication has been used in novels -- and I've read most of them. The majority of the novels keep the focus on one group of characters that stays together, so there's no need for them to employ long-range communication methods.
Really? You'd be hard pressed to find a novel about the Chosen of Mystra or their friends and allies where they don't use magical communication. The same is true for The Harpers, the Cult of the Dragon, the Zhentarim, Red Wizards and their associates, A lot of people in Cormyr(goverment, nobles, War Wizards) and elves (in general).
In a general sense, the ''average author'' finds it impossible to set a story with ''no quick ranged communication''. Not even like sat in the 1980's before cell phones. So you see heroes and villains sending a lot of magical messages. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 18 Nov 2018 : 15:02:20
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Considering that I've read most of the Realms novels and I'm not recalling much, if any, magical communication, I'd say I'd not be hard-pressed at all to find novels without it.
As I said, the novels usually focus on one group that stays together -- so there's no need for such communications. |
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People's view of Magic
