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Gelcur
Senior Scribe
535 Posts |
 Posted - 10 Jun 2018 : 05:36:17
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A few friends and I were discussing the proper term for groups of creatures, of course we quickly moved on to fantasy creatures.
We eventually got to Beholders... all our searching yielded nothing. Even dug up the old Ecology article from Dragon 76 that Ed had a hand in still nothing.
Anyone have any ideas or "definitive" source?
Our top two contenders were a Bunch of Beholders or, my favorite, a Bouquet of Beholders. We figured it would be amusing the compare them to flowers, beauty in the eye of and all, but also all the eye stock kind of reminded us of a bunch of flowers.
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The party come to a town befallen by hysteria
Rogue: So what's in the general store?
DM: What are you looking for?
Rogue: Whatevers in the store.
DM: Like what?
Rogue: Everything.
DM: There is a lot of stuff.
Rogue: Is there a cart outside?
DM: (rolls) Yes.
Rogue: We'll take it all, we may need it for the greater good. |
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The Masked Mage
Great Reader
USA
2420 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jun 2018 : 06:59:17
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Beholders are hive-based, with a queen, so I'd base it off of insects.
Once you get past descriptors of the community (like "nation," "hive," "nest," "den," "brood," etc.) or military terms, options for the collective terms of groups would therefor include:
"swarm" (like many insects, including bees),
"intrusion" (like cockroaches - I like this as it alludes to their invasion of worlds), or even "plague" (like locusts)
Other possibilities could be "host," "pod" (like whales), a "descent" (like woodpeckers) or "hover" (like trout - both allude to their levitation), a "rout" (like wolves - referring to the result of their attacks). |
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LordofBones
Master of Realmslore
1566 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jun 2018 : 07:05:44
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| The obvious answer is 'bordello'. |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6680 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jun 2018 : 08:51:17
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Ed actually did a Realms terms of venery article for Dragon I think, but it was never published.
— George Krashos |
"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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TBeholder
Great Reader
2469 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jun 2018 : 09:48:18
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quote:
Originally posted by Gelcur
A few friends and I were discussing the proper term for groups of creatures, of course we quickly moved on to fantasy creatures.
We eventually got to Beholders... all our searching yielded nothing.
Hive or cluster, depending on the organization.
quote:
Anyone have any ideas or "definitive" source?
I, Tyrant. |
People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch |
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Elren_Wolfsbane
Learned Scribe
USA
111 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jun 2018 : 13:59:24
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Swatm sounds appropriate, though if Ed (or the other writers) had something else in mind, then go with that.
This is why I love this forum. Conversations like this |
Aa' lasser en`coialle n`natula brown.
(May the leaves of your life tree never turn brown)
-Elren Wolfsbane |
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Taleras
Seeker
75 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jun 2018 : 14:04:15
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| I like a "murder of Beholders" personally! |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36869 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jun 2018 : 16:23:23
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Many years ago, I saw a list someone did online that named groups of various D&D monsters... Unfortunately, if I saved it, I don't know what I saved it under, so I can't find it now.  |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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The Masked Mage
Great Reader
USA
2420 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jun 2018 : 00:20:01
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quote:
Originally posted by Taleras
I like a "murder of Beholders" personally!
I had thought of that, but I like keeping that reserved for crows :) |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jun 2018 : 08:46:56
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| I think I'd go with a "torment of tyrants" or a "spectrum of beholders". |
[/Ayrik] |
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Storyteller Hero
Learned Scribe
USA
329 Posts |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36869 Posts |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6381 Posts |
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Starshade
Learned Scribe
Norway
279 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jun 2018 : 15:23:52
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Like in a tower of giraffes, a cauldron of bats?
Tbh this is the first time 'hive' is mentioned related to beholders. Not sure it's a good match, but it is at least more meaningful than speaking of flying cauldrons. |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6381 Posts |
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Elren_Wolfsbane
Learned Scribe
USA
111 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jun 2018 : 18:26:39
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Beholder's have immense telepathic powers that could indicate hive mind (hell, they give birth by just thinking of another beholder
Take in consideration what a hive mind means. Here I will focus on the second meaning of the definition.
Hive mind:
Psychology, Sociology.
a collective consciousness, analogous to the behavior of social insects, in which a group of people become aware of their commonality and think and act as a community, sharing their knowledge, thoughts, and resources.
such a group mentality characterized by uncritical conformity and loss of a sense of individuality and personal accountability.
So, can you really say each individual Beholder is not their own being, with it's own personality, etc... |
Aa' lasser en`coialle n`natula brown.
(May the leaves of your life tree never turn brown)
-Elren Wolfsbane |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36869 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jun 2018 : 18:39:56
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| Except we've seen plenty of example of independent beholders doing their own thing and pursuing their own ambitions, and I'm not recalling any examples of a beholder hive mind. Off the top of my head, I'm not really recalling any intelligent D&D critters that are part of a hive mind, though I'm sure that someone will come along and correct me on that. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6381 Posts |
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Elren_Wolfsbane
Learned Scribe
USA
111 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jun 2018 : 19:50:38
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Except we've seen plenty of example of independent beholders doing their own thing and pursuing their own ambitions, and I'm not recalling any examples of a beholder hive mind. Off the top of my head, I'm not really recalling any intelligent D&D critters that are part of a hive mind, though I'm sure that someone will come along and correct me on that.
I agree that there is no one instance of a hive Beholders in lore, but this is D&D, you never know.
I was looking around, and Cranium Rats (and supposedly at one time) a group of Mind Flayers (but I'm unsure of that). I would also assume Insects fall in that hive mind category |
Aa' lasser en`coialle n`natula brown.
(May the leaves of your life tree never turn brown)
-Elren Wolfsbane |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11987 Posts |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11987 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jun 2018 : 22:38:41
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Except we've seen plenty of example of independent beholders doing their own thing and pursuing their own ambitions, and I'm not recalling any examples of a beholder hive mind. Off the top of my head, I'm not really recalling any intelligent D&D critters that are part of a hive mind, though I'm sure that someone will come along and correct me on that.
Worth discussing as a sidebar. I can think of Formians and Bacar (both are ants) and Abeil (bee people) and illithids.
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Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Elren_Wolfsbane
Learned Scribe
USA
111 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jun 2018 : 23:22:16
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quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Just found two things, since I had some time for the Google-Fu:
A prior discussion, here in our halls: Terms of Venery - Names for groups of things
And a graphic:
The Stoakes-Whibley Natural Index of Supernatural Collective Nouns, some of which can be used for D&D critters.
Two Words
Holy Cr@p
Good link!
I was thinking, would you consider a Beholder almost alien like to the realms? (Also, now I think of it Mind Flayers Are infact alien to Toril) |
Aa' lasser en`coialle n`natula brown.
(May the leaves of your life tree never turn brown)
-Elren Wolfsbane |
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Elren_Wolfsbane
Learned Scribe
USA
111 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jun 2018 : 23:27:06
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| A pension of Beholders! ??? |
Aa' lasser en`coialle n`natula brown.
(May the leaves of your life tree never turn brown)
-Elren Wolfsbane |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36869 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jun 2018 : 03:24:42
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quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Except we've seen plenty of example of independent beholders doing their own thing and pursuing their own ambitions, and I'm not recalling any examples of a beholder hive mind. Off the top of my head, I'm not really recalling any intelligent D&D critters that are part of a hive mind, though I'm sure that someone will come along and correct me on that.
Worth discussing as a sidebar. I can think of Formians and Bacar (both are ants) and Abeil (bee people) and illithids.
I'm not sure that I'd include illithids, there... To me, a hive mind implies one mind controlling many bodies, with each body being either entirely dependent on that hive mind or greatly diminished when apart from it. Illithids gain from being part of the mental collective, but they can function perfectly well independently, and even when part of the collective are still independent entities.
My favorite hive minds from fantasy and sci-fi are the cho-ja from the Riftwar books, and Rook Gestalt from the book The Rook.
The cho-ja were much like the thri-kreen, physically. They lived in hives, and the Queen of each hive bred workers, soldiers, and other queens. And like many insects, the workers were specialized for one function, like feeding others, mating, providing ventilation, or crafting. The warriors had some independence, but the rest were fully part of the hive mind. And the Queen acted as a sort of node for the hive mind; the hive mind contained all the memories of all the cho-ja to have lived -- so it was a racial memory, as well as a hive mind. It also meant that the entire race was essentially one eternal consciousness.
Gestalt, from The Rook, was one human mind with four bodies: a brother and sister that were fraternal twins, and two other brothers. Gestalt could control any one or all four of his bodies simultaneously, to the point of having martial arts sparring matches with himself or acting as 4 members of a special forces unit. Gestalt could also withdraw from any of his bodies, leaving that body mindless and inactive. Other people, when discussing upcoming meetings with Gestalt or something, would have to ask which bodies were going to be in attendance.
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Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 12 Jun 2018 03:29:44 |
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The Masked Mage
Great Reader
USA
2420 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jun 2018 : 03:29:54
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quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
I think I'd go with a "torment of tyrants" or a "spectrum of beholders".
I like torment, but spectrum alludes to a light... I'm guessing you're going for something about the eyes, but to me its more like spectrum means the source of light not its endpiont. |
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The Masked Mage
Great Reader
USA
2420 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jun 2018 : 03:35:48
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| Beholders living in "hives" has many sources in FR, the actual den of such a hive sometimes being called "warrens." It also comes from 1st & 2nd Ed AD&D sources and spelljammer... most likely there are a couple Dragon Mag articles as well but that's just a guess. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36869 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jun 2018 : 04:44:59
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I've suggested a goggle of beholders, in the past. Or maybe a glare.
Or flock. That is my general collective term for just about anything. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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The Masked Mage
Great Reader
USA
2420 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jun 2018 : 05:51:47
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| I like goggle - like a gaggle with many eyes :P |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6680 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jun 2018 : 10:08:58
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A tyranny of beholders?
-- George Krashos |
"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36869 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jun 2018 : 10:47:54
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quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
A tyranny of beholders?
-- George Krashos
That's a good one. 
But how about an eyeful of beholders? |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jun 2018 : 13:08:40
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The "black cover" 2E Monster Manual (TSR 2140B) has a large section on beholders and beholder-kin. In which the plural is passingly referenced as a "cluster of beholders".
A "float of beholders" also sounds pretty good to me. Old Monster Manuals assert that "sphere of many eyes" and "eye tyrant" are (supposedly) more common names for these monsters than "beholder", although 2E later defined "eye tyrant" as a specific subspecies. So maybe a "globe of beholders". Or even an "orbit of beholders" (if you like double-entendres). |
[/Ayrik] |
Edited by - Ayrik on 12 Jun 2018 13:09:35 |
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A Bunch of Beholders
