| Author |
 Topic  |
|
Venger
Learned Scribe
USA
268 Posts |
 Posted - 31 May 2018 : 02:44:47
|
|
I'm just wondering if there are any good sources to tell me what the Realms looks like in 5E.
|
"Beware what you say when you speak of magic, wizard, or you shall see who has the greater power." |
|
|
Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 31 May 2018 : 02:52:11
|
They've been scattering stuff around various sources, but the Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide (also called the SCAG) is prolly the most informative single book and the closest thing to a setting book.
Officially, they're undoing a lot of what was done for 4E... Though they're also playing vague on a lot of things, as an attempt to keep both the pro-4E and anti-4E crowds aboard by not being definitive on anything. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
 |
|
|
Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6361 Posts |
|
|
Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4441 Posts |
Posted - 31 May 2018 : 08:30:00
|
| Run how you want the Realms to run, canon is a joke. Use it like a big ol' buffet and take the parts that are good, ignore the parts that are bad (subjectively speaking). |
|
|
|
Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6361 Posts |
|
|
Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4441 Posts |
Posted - 31 May 2018 : 09:49:20
|
quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal
Which is exactly the approach I take and why I don't use 4e or 5e
I run all over. Pre-3e doesn't affect my games because the timeframe of that era is not appealing to run in for me. I've ignored some 3e content such as the whole events of the Crescent Blade and Tyr not "dying" after "killing" Helm.
I didn't adopt the 4E "destruction" of Lantan and did something fun with the island nation instead. I transported Gondsmen (aka Warforged) to Anglarond to help the Symbol deal with the undead threat of Thay. The Sea of Fallen Stars isn't nearly as depleted in my Realms as The book makes it to be.
Mystra only stayed dead for a short time in my Realms, getting divinity back only after about 25 years absence.
Dwarf pantheon is mostly intact.
In 5e, well I discarded the Sundering almost entirely. Earthmotes are still there. No Mulhorand. No Maztica. Halruua is in a lot better shape. Event of Archmage weren't nearly as devastating and as such, only a portion of Myth Drannor is effected. |
|
|
|
Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3741 Posts |
|
|
Irennan
Great Reader
Italy
3806 Posts |
Posted - 31 May 2018 : 20:13:08
|
quote:
Originally posted by Lord Karsus
-Are they seriously not planning on making a setting book?
Yeah, they aren't. SCAG was the "setting book" in their mind, while the remaining info is scattered across multiple sources. |
Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things. |
|
|
|
Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 31 May 2018 : 20:52:25
|
quote:
Originally posted by Lord Karsus
-Are they seriously not planning on making a setting book?
If they are, they've not announced it. Apparently, the "major adventure with some lore" format is now the preference. They're basically following the Pathfinder Adventure Path model, but doing it in one book.
Personally, I think the biggest reason they're doing that is so they can just make stuff up as they go, rather than sit down beforehand and think everything out, and then try to adhere to it. You don't have to worry about canon if you can decide what canon is when you need it. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
|
|
|
TomCosta
Forgotten Realms Designer
USA
971 Posts |
Posted - 31 May 2018 : 23:20:12
|
SCAG is the closest thing to a "setting" book we have. That said, the hardcover adventures have lots of info on the regions they take place in (mostly the Sword Coast and North). Notably Storm's King Thunder has a whole "setting" section on locations in the North. Similarly, Tomb of Annihilation does the same with Chult.
That said, I do think it would be great to have a full fledged setting book.
|
|
|
|
Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3741 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jun 2018 : 00:01:22
|
| -Wow, that's a pretty big 180 from how it's always been. I mean, I guess it's market tested and all of that, but I really have to squint my eyes to see the benefits of doing it that way. I mean, they're basically cheating themselves out of a source book they can justifiably charge a decent price a pop (a la the FRCS and FRCG). |
(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know)
Elves of Faerūn
Vol I- The Elves of Faerūn
Vol. III- Spells of the Elves
Vol. VI- Mechanical Compendium |
|
|
|
Irennan
Great Reader
Italy
3806 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jun 2018 : 00:08:52
|
| I think the reason is what Wooly pointed out. They don't want to set up lore for the various regions, because they want to make it up to fit their adventures as they go. |
Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things. |
|
|
|
moonbeast
Senior Scribe
USA
522 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jun 2018 : 01:53:56
|
| Yeah, I take it that instead of publishing a single "One Setting Book to Rule Them All", they are instead doing several regional books. We already have one for the Sword Coast. We have one for Chult. I suppose we could eventually see one for
the Lands of Fate? Cormyr/Sembia? Kara-Tur? |
|
|
|
Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6361 Posts |
|
|
sfdragon
Great Reader
2285 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jun 2018 : 07:48:02
|
| well they still could do one, when they figure out what they want in it.... |
why is being a wizard like being a drow? both are likely to find a dagger in the back from a rival or one looking to further his own goals, fame and power
My FR fan fiction
Magister's GAmbit
http://steelfiredragon.deviantart.com/gallery/33539234 |
|
|
|
Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6361 Posts |
|
|
Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6361 Posts |
|
|
TomCosta
Forgotten Realms Designer
USA
971 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jun 2018 : 14:02:52
|
So I think that many of the designers prefer Greyhawk, which is fine, but not awesome if FR is a better seller. They are capable smart folks, but if the love and lore isn't quite there, they are likely to make some notably gaffes with the setting we love.
That said, if I had to guess, I think the more likely issue is that FR is so big that it became an impediment to playing the game (much like the implicit requirement for minis in 3.5 and especially 4E caused some to not play or even start playing) for some (probably a lot, especially more casual players) who felt they needed to know all the lore so they don't want to overproduce. I think this is partially why they got out of novels. In the beginning it was a great selling, ahem, novelty, but over time saturated the setting with so much lore (and again became another impediment to new players) you needed the PhD in Realmslore that we all have to get it right. I mean one of the reasons we have these forums is so we can all geek out on the lore and remind each other of bits we've forgotten, but not everybody, probably most people (which is fine, but, you know, their loss), aren't like that. So the setting stays, but in smaller, more digestible chunks with enough distance from what was that small errors in lore can easily explained away. |
|
|
|
CorellonsDevout
Great Reader
USA
2708 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jun 2018 : 17:54:49
|
quote:
Originally posted by TomCosta
So I think that many of the designers prefer Greyhawk, which is fine, but not awesome if FR is a better seller. They are capable smart folks, but if the love and lore isn't quite there, they are likely to make some notably gaffes with the setting we love.
That said, if I had to guess, I think the more likely issue is that FR is so big that it became an impediment to playing the game (much like the implicit requirement for minis in 3.5 and especially 4E caused some to not play or even start playing) for some (probably a lot, especially more casual players) who felt they needed to know all the lore so they don't want to overproduce. I think this is partially why they got out of novels. In the beginning it was a great selling, ahem, novelty, but over time saturated the setting with so much lore (and again became another impediment to new players) you needed the PhD in Realmslore that we all have to get it right. I mean one of the reasons we have these forums is so we can all geek out on the lore and remind each other of bits we've forgotten, but not everybody, probably most people (which is fine, but, you know, their loss), aren't like that. So the setting stays, but in smaller, more digestible chunks with enough distance from what was that small errors in lore can easily explained away.
This could also be why they are going with the "multiversal" approach with the MToF. They are trying to lump all the settings together with one "canon" story in order to simplify things. In my mind, they would make more money if they focused on products for each setting--and I think they would appease more fans--but hey, maybe they're trying to save on printing costs. I don't like it, and I hope I'm wrong, but that's how it seems to me.
I started out as a casual Realms fan, reading a few of the novels recommended to me by my best friend (yes, they were the Drizzt novels). Then I started reading more FR novels, and I started buying sourcebooks, especially once I got involved in forums like this one. I became invested in the setting (in more ways than one). I realize fans like are secondary concern to hardcore gamers (or even casual gamers), but it still sucks to have what you love butchered or ignored in favor of "profit". |
Sweet water and light laughter |
|
|
|
Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jun 2018 : 19:07:34
|
quote:
Originally posted by TomCosta
So I think that many of the designers prefer Greyhawk, which is fine, but not awesome if FR is a better seller. They are capable smart folks, but if the love and lore isn't quite there, they are likely to make some notably gaffes with the setting we love.
That said, if I had to guess, I think the more likely issue is that FR is so big that it became an impediment to playing the game (much like the implicit requirement for minis in 3.5 and especially 4E caused some to not play or even start playing) for some (probably a lot, especially more casual players) who felt they needed to know all the lore so they don't want to overproduce. I think this is partially why they got out of novels. In the beginning it was a great selling, ahem, novelty, but over time saturated the setting with so much lore (and again became another impediment to new players) you needed the PhD in Realmslore that we all have to get it right. I mean one of the reasons we have these forums is so we can all geek out on the lore and remind each other of bits we've forgotten, but not everybody, probably most people (which is fine, but, you know, their loss), aren't like that. So the setting stays, but in smaller, more digestible chunks with enough distance from what was that small errors in lore can easily explained away.
That was part of their justification for the time jump: kind of acting as a reset so people could jump in without worrying about everything that came before.
My thinking of why they did that is less charitable: I think it was to make things easier on the writers and designers. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
|
|
|
Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6361 Posts |
|
|
Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jun 2018 : 21:19:28
|
They never had to do that. All they had to do is approach the fan community, and we'd happily help them out for free.
Case in point: Steven Schend once came in here, asking for a detail on a character that only saw print on a couple of pages of a comic book. And he got that info, freely offered, and used it in a novel.
This forum -- and the WotC forums, when they were active -- were and always have been potential resources for WotC. But these resources have remained untapped.
And it's not even something they have to do openly... We've had countless cases of NewRando#6 coming in just to ask a couple of lore questions and then never coming back. Any author or designer could use that same approach. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
|
|
|
Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6361 Posts |
|
|
Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jun 2018 : 23:36:01
|
quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal
True but to been counters if something is free then it is worthless plus the closure of their own forums shows how much they valued the opinions of their customers.
I'm not talking about bean counters or WotC soliciting opinions.
Though my suggestion would help both -- a free resource would please the bean counters who look only at the bottom line, and enlisting customer support makes the customers feel involved and thus more favorable about the end result.
That's part of why Pathfinder was so successful as an RPG, right from the start -- they held the open beta and involved the players, giving people a real stake in their hobby. Plus that open beta was a brilliant maneuver from a playtesting standpoint, because they go way, way more playtesters than any other RPG has ever had -- and they did it for free.
|
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
|
|
|
sfdragon
Great Reader
2285 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jun 2018 : 01:29:07
|
| paizo is having a playtest for pathfinder 2.0 |
why is being a wizard like being a drow? both are likely to find a dagger in the back from a rival or one looking to further his own goals, fame and power
My FR fan fiction
Magister's GAmbit
http://steelfiredragon.deviantart.com/gallery/33539234 |
|
|
|
Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4441 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jun 2018 : 04:40:00
|
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
That's part of why Pathfinder was so successful as an RPG, right from the start -- they held the open beta and involved the players, giving people a real stake in their hobby. Plus that open beta was a brilliant maneuver from a playtesting standpoint, because they go way, way more playtesters than any other RPG has ever had -- and they did it for free.
Did you miss the two years of development D&D: Next had with thousands of playtesters? I wish I had my old packets from the early days - back around 2014 or so - which was very interesting to be a part of to say the least. Its one of the reasons why I think its popularity has soared higher than any previous edition in the game's history |
|
|
|
George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6666 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jun 2018 : 04:57:24
|
quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal
It means they don't have to pay for expert realmsian consultants on their "FR" products.
I always did it for free, except for GHotR where I was one of several official designers. But the contact some writers/designers/tinkerers (the last group is me) received prior to the Sundering event and the advent of 5E was very interesting from my point of view. A big web meeting where a few things were discussed and our input requested, a request for a bunch of race specific information that we scrambled to provide, then queries from our end re what our role was to be (and to be truthful, queries as to how WotC was going to recognise this assistance "officially" going forward from some of our number - I didn't waste my time in that regard; I knew we had a snowball's chance in Avernus of being paid, and I don't need their money) and then ... nothing.
I think that what the Realms was going to be in 5E was still up in the air at that stage, and certainly they were still intending to produce novels. That clearly changed as time went on and WotC decided to go with their current model - adventure paths leading the way (stealing off Paizo in that regard), soundbites from all of their campaign world intellectual property, and a big focus on the Adventure's League organised play.
So the Realms remains a place to set adventures in and to borrow bits and pieces from when playing your game or setting up your campaign. I guess it's always been that, throughout the editions. It was only through the prolific and brilliant creativity of Ed Greenwood that we got more than that for a time (just like Gary did for Greyhawk, Bruce Heard for Mystara, Keith Baker for Eberron, etc. etc.). But as with all such things, once those individuals lost their voice in the game, the setting they championed fell away.
But the Realms remains. I know that because I have a book shelf and hard drive full of Realms material. More importantly, I have a scattering of grey matter that thinks about the Realms every day - and a bunch of scribbled in notebooks to attest to that also (yesterday I scribbled in one of them "the Ioulamic Codex". I don't know what that is yet, but I might one day). So enjoy the Realms. It remains important to gaming, but only so long as people champion it in large ways and small. I'm looking forward to the Candlekeep Seminar and Gen Con in general to chat about my favourite campaign world with like-minded folk. Such an opportunity is an eternal blessing.
-- George Krashos |
"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
|
|
|
Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6361 Posts |
|
|
Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jun 2018 : 15:28:33
|
quote:
Originally posted by Diffan
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
That's part of why Pathfinder was so successful as an RPG, right from the start -- they held the open beta and involved the players, giving people a real stake in their hobby. Plus that open beta was a brilliant maneuver from a playtesting standpoint, because they go way, way more playtesters than any other RPG has ever had -- and they did it for free.
Did you miss the two years of development D&D: Next had with thousands of playtesters? I wish I had my old packets from the early days - back around 2014 or so - which was very interesting to be a part of to say the least. Its one of the reasons why I think its popularity has soared higher than any previous edition in the game's history
Actually, I totally forgot about that, partially because I don't pay attention to the current ruleset of D&D (not dislike, just not my thing), and partially because Paizo did it first.
Consider my prior statement amended to "way more playtesters than any other RPG had ever had before". |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
|
|
|
Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jun 2018 : 15:32:47
|
quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal
If people want to play in the realms and want new lore then they need to join in and help create it for themselves (or help others in their efforts). Otherwise all you will receive is the confusing and contradictory garbage that we have seen from wotc so far plus a few passable adventures.
And with no coordination, no centralized guidance, and just anyone doing what they want and also being able to ignore whatever they wanted, "confusing and contradictory garbage" is all we'd get.
quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal
Let wotc provide the rules for the game. Everything else needs to come from people that love the setting.
No. Have WotC do what they once did -- employ and use people with a passion for the setting. Then we'll get good material, and it'll all be official so we'll all be on the same page.
|
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
|
|
|
Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6361 Posts |
|
|
Topic |
|
Any sources for the current status of the setting?
