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Elren_Wolfsbane
Learned Scribe
USA
111 Posts |
 Posted - 08 Apr 2018 : 07:56:10
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I only see a few articles about the apparel the realms. Mainly a couple cities.
So, I was curious if anyone new more details about what people wear around toril?
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Aa' lasser en`coialle n`natula brown.
(May the leaves of your life tree never turn brown)
-Elren Wolfsbane |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11829 Posts |
Posted - 09 Apr 2018 : 12:09:49
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| Up near Waterdeep... lot of furs.... down near Halruaa, light, thin cloth. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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TBeholder
Great Reader
2428 Posts |
Posted - 09 Apr 2018 : 12:22:13
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| Look in novels - e.g. Elminster in Myth Drannor has mentions of Elven clothes. |
People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch |
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Elren_Wolfsbane
Learned Scribe
USA
111 Posts |
Posted - 09 Apr 2018 : 14:27:41
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quote:
Originally posted by TBeholder
Look in novels - e.g. Elminster in Myth Drannor has mentions of Elven clothes.
Ah, I will thanks
I dont know about everyone in Candlekeep, but I really do like to describe in detail what the NPC's look like. Knowing what people in thar wear, or even chult is interesting |
Aa' lasser en`coialle n`natula brown.
(May the leaves of your life tree never turn brown)
-Elren Wolfsbane |
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sfdragon
Great Reader
2285 Posts |
Posted - 10 Apr 2018 : 09:59:03
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in Chult. look at what they are wearing the neverwinter game. its current expansions are in chult.
the other palce to luck would be the current adventure... that ironically goes along with the neverwinter game.
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why is being a wizard like being a drow? both are likely to find a dagger in the back from a rival or one looking to further his own goals, fame and power
My FR fan fiction
Magister's GAmbit
http://steelfiredragon.deviantart.com/gallery/33539234 |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6666 Posts |
Posted - 10 Apr 2018 : 11:29:33
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Ed at various times has said this about clothing in the Realms:
Which brings us to lingerie: First, utilitarian underwear for men and women: women with large breasts that get in the way, or when doing activites that are going to cause chafing or discomfort (crawling on rock while mining, rowing, etc.) often wear a tight cloth breast-binding or sling (the equivalent of a modern sports bra, although instead of stretchy fabric covering a lot of skin, the Realms version is more like a trough or shelf of tightly-stretched cloth sewn to cords (precisely because elastic fabric is largely unknown in the Realms). In colder climates, soft hide bras are worn most of the time.
For the lower half of the body, both men and women wear clouts: a very tight leather, cloth, or cord (listed here in descending order of perceived quality and durability) belt worn around the hips, and usually held tight by multiple hooks (like a modern bra) at the front. Then a long, diaper-like strip of rectangular cloth (usually cotton) is passed between the legs, up through the front of the belt to dangle down, and up through the back of the belt to dangle down. In other words, the “breechclout” of some native American tribes. In many cases, the dangling front and back ends are designed to be tied together, and the cloth may be folded in on itself for extra absorbency or padding (especially when the wearer expects to be riding a mount). Menstruating women usually place another layer or two of red-hued cloth inside the clout and change this as necessary, and yes, clouts can be purchased that are decorative and ‘made to be seen.’ Freshly-perfumed clouts are often sold in Waterdeep and other large cities.
Among simple backcountry folk in cold climates, women often wear leggings, leather skirts, long hide shirts (tunics), and fur cloaks -- and a woman wanting to signal her willingness for some hanky-panky either aggressively tells her chosen partner so, or hikes up her skirts briefly to reveal that she, ahem, seems to have forgotten to put on her clout! (Prostitutes trolling for strangers often expose their breasts and hold up a lantern to spotlight this fact -- and probably also to keep the bared skin a little warmer.)
Okay, on to the alluring stuff. The concept of wire for breast support and shaping is unknown in the Realms, but corsets (laced-up, tight boiled hide, not whalebone or any sort of stiffeners) and stomachers that cinch the waist tight are popular, and many of them have shaped panels for the hips and a top ‘shelf’ to thrust out and support the breasts. Low-cut peasant blouses and even lace trimmings (as one can see from examining the covers of Volo’s Guides and much Realms interior artwork) are widely used. In hot climates, panties and translucent silk pantaloons, vests, and the like are often worn by women (Hollywood “harem” wear), also as established by some Realms artwork.
So black lace, black leather, and red (the other erotic hue) straps can be worn. Black lace dresses, garments that expose the crotch and nipples, and what we might call ‘bondage gear’ (such as tassel-adorned nipple clamps) are okay, on festhall dancers and in private, among couples. Prostitutes dress in whatever garb is allowed locally; in more conservative places, they are usually fully dressed, but in garments that show a strip of bare flesh all the way up the outside of the leg and torso (i.e. held together with a series of rings). This signals to would-be clients that this particular woman wants to be approached, rather than being someone who’ll offer instant violence AND scream for the Watch if propositioned.
Men trying to signal their interest in sex or courtship will often wear an artificial flower perched on one shoulder: a red rose for “I’m looking for courtship,” a black rose for “I’m looking for sex,” and a steel rose to signal homosexual interest (a device also used by lesbians). In ‘my’ Realms, there’s no stigma attached to homosexual relationships, only to any sexual behaviour that involves exploiting children, and any sexual behaviour that involves force or coercion (please note: WILLINGLY undergoing pain or bondage doesn’t count).
Fops or boisterous types (such as Mirt the Moneylender) might wear four or more such roses to signal that they’re interested in multiple partners for the night, but except in the right sort of festhall, such displays can often cause mirth or ridicule.
Other than the rose, men seldom wear “lingerie” per se, but may shave, perfume themselves, or wear a single black legging (usally on the right leg) decorated with scenes of heroic prowess (usually depicted in red). Tiny bells on nipple-rings are sometimes worn by individuals of either gender to ‘appear sexy,’ and some priests are reportedly excited by sexual partners who tattoo symbols of their deity on the palms of their hands.
And a glance at the published Realms should make it obvious that erotic dancing is a big part of foreplay and sexual entertainment. Elaborately-decorated (with bells, etc.) garters (we’re talking here not the modern straps between belt and silk stockings, but rather the slender belt worn around a single leg with ends a-dangle) are often worn by dancers, both professionals and houswives wanting to excite their husbands, and undone and thrown aside during the dance.
In warmer climes, both genders often signal their desire for sex by walking naked in moonlit gardens, or naked except for finely-made, ‘show’ high boots, headgear (often with face veils), and to-the-elbow gloves (an overcloak is usually worn to reach the gardens -- and if the gardens aren’t private, kept on until a desired partner is met).
Foreplay among elves and half-elves (particularly strangers) often includes the wearing of full-face masks or hoods that leave bare only the ears -- and caressing, kissing, or licking of ears (plus throat, backs of knees, and palms of hands) for and by both partners leads to more ardent activities.
Corsetry is very common, from fat male merchants and female goodwives just wanting to “improve their shape, as meets the eye” (and so donning various foundation garments, meant to stay hidden under clothing) to all sorts of alluring garments (meant to display the body, and at the same time be displayed as adornment).
To begin, let me say that fashion in Silverymoon is far more a “do your own thing, care nothing for others” affair than in Waterdeep. Both cities see constant new styles and reintroduction of older styles, and have a tolerant, cosmopolitan, sophisticated local population that sees almost constant visiting outlanders except in the harshest winter months. Both places are wealthy. All of which means both have healthy, everchanging local “fashion scenes,” far more so than in most other places in the Realms (large trading centers will always be the most “fashion-lively,” but in some places, such as Athkatla, that’s tempered by a strong local preference for something; in the case of Athkatla, demonstrating one’s wealth is paramount).
In Silverymoon, newcomers wanting to be noticed in society and individuals desiring to raise their social profile and influence in politics are usually the most fashion-conscious.
In Waterdeep, many nobles use fashion to divide themselves from commoners (and younger or ‘black sheep’ nobles use fashion to rebel or make a statement), whereas the wealthiest wannabe-noble merchants try to dress like the nobles, and most guildmasters and wealthy DON’T-wannabe-noble merchants adopt expensive but clearly different fashions, to show they’re “as good as, or better than nobles, and certainly don’t want to be nobles or mistaken for nobles.”
Right. Stage set. Now, on to specifics for females. The impression one is trying to impart is of course paramount (REALLY rich, or beyond-caring-about-coin rich, or conservative, or I’m an adventurer above all this “society” nonsense, or I’m the special guest wanting to stand out or surpass everyone, or I belong here) is usually the dominant factor in deciding what to wear.
The cheapest way to dress is the conservative look: basic black gown with high collar and/or plunge front, matching sash and boots, and a few pieces of small, tasteful jewelry (moonstone or pearl earrings and perhaps a pendant and/or finger ring). Some adventurers have, or can borrow, or can buy secondhand, all of these very cheaply. (This is the Realms equivalent of the “little black dress.”) Truly wealthy nobles have their own seamstresses, and go to the best designers, to achieve the same look for as much as 4,000 gp (plus the cost of the jewels). Most women wealthy enough to “buy new, in a hurry” can put together the same look, jewelry included, for 150 gp (50 gp/boots, 80 or so for an off-the-peg gown and sash, and the rest for jewels), IF they’re a fairly standard size (if your hips are literally four feet across, NOTHING off the peg is ever going to fit you). Almost all “new” clothiers in either city are used to doing small on-the-spot alterations to make a sale.
Someone shopping a secondhand shop, who gets lucky on finding something unsoiled, untorn, and more or less their size, who can touch up scuffed boots and wash everything, could put together the same ensemble for about 65 gp (25 gp/boots, 20 or less for the gown, and 20 gp for earrings).
The conservative look is never “out of fashion” except among a wild revelry gathering of the rebellious young, and even there it can be “dressed down” by exchanging the black sash for a flame-orange one, pinning the gown (to the inside of the sash) half-open to expose skin or a racy chemise (lace-trimmed white silk for classy look, almost anything to present other images) and jewelry (such as nipple clamps with tassels, and a gem set in the navel).
MOST well-to-do shopkeeper’s wives in both cities have the following:
* The “black look” discussed above, plus a matching cape and cap (for funerals, solemn ceremonies, and “not sure what to wear but sure don’t want to offend” feasts and meetings with nobles or social superiors).
* At least three evening gowns (ankle length), of varying degrees of daring (plunge front and/or back, cutouts, or none) and various hues, usually at least one bright red. These are for guild dinners, meals and moots with social equals (and the more of these latter they attend, the more often they’ll buy new gowns to add into the mix, so those who see them often will know they’re wealthy enough to buy a gown whenever the mood strikes them). Endless accessories (hats, purses, belts, baldrics, garters, chemises, chathra [ = petticoats; the Realms term implies trimmed so as to be partially seen], furs [usually “wraps” that are draped artistically], underthings [see Page 21 of my 2004 replies, here at Candlekeep] and jewels) are mixed and swapped with these to create different looks.
* A wild costume, or two, for costume balls and really daring revelry (masks are ALWAYS a feature of these, but they range from piratical garb to strap-on gossamer silk “fairy wings” to strap-on furry or scaled serpentine tails, and so on; by daring revelry I mean feasts and other gatherings where sexual activity or at least physical flirtation is expected; Waterdhavian matrons of a certain age often refer to these as “one of my plough-me-please outfits”).
* At least one VERY expensive and dramatic gown by a famous local designer, that will pass for being “in fashion” with the latest tastes. These can be almost anything, will come with full matching accessories (e.g. face-veils and/or half-cloaks), and tend to get “put away” in a wardrobe for a decade until they’re in fashion again. “Dramatic” is the key word here: many of these gowns have shoulder fins, daring cutouts, and impractical trimmings.
The northernmost four wards of Waterdeep bristle with shops selling overpriced clothing and footwear; personally-designed gowns (involving a “name” designer and usually many “fittings” [fitting sessions where the wearer is measured, muslin mockups and later the gowns themselves are pinned on to them, cut, and re-pinned]) can easily cost 6,000 gp each for a really rich noble and 2,000 for someone wealthy (many designers set their prices according to a client’s ability to pay, but are utterly uninterested in taking on poor clients unless they fall in love with them or are discharging a debt). Most “good” shops sell and alter close copies of the less outrageous designer gowns, and “classic” garments, for 400 gp up to 1,200 gp. Off-the-peg garments at the “less glittering shops” can often serve very well, and can be had for 80 gp up to 600 gp at most, with the majority of gowns running around 100 gp.
One recurring “fashion fallback” is to wear a simple, cheap gown, and a very “showy” trimmed slip or chemise (made for someone larger) OVER it, with a sash or belt of contrasting hue to “bind the whole look together.” Such showy undergarments cost a maximum of about 80 gp (unless custom-made), and even the classiest sash or belt is seldom more than 40 gp.
A bard may well want clothing she can most elegantly perform in; a rogue (or for that matter, all three characters, depending on what adventures they intend to get up to) often wants a dark gown that can be shed swiftly and easily, and wadded up and stuffed somewhere without being lastingly wrinkled or harmed; and a sorceress may (or may not!) want an outfit that looks mystical and darkly impressive.
Thinner, “for looks” cloaks, if made of fabric that doesn’t wrinkle terribly, are habitually constructed with a “pocket” that runs along the collar or shoulders, so that the entire cloak can be rolled tightly up, stuffed into this pocket, and the whole thing hung from a belt or around the wearer’s neck on its own sewn-on thong, when not in use.
Of heavier cloaks, many have draw-string-closed (and then knot) mini coin-pockets along the lower edges, for easy carrying of emergency spending money (fares for conveyances, a night’s lodging, a meal), and to double as weights to keep the lower edge of the cloak down in breezes (stops women from being publicly embarrassed or momentarily blinded by having their clothing blow up into their faces).
About 1 in 5 cloaks have a small-opening, deep “handy” pocket, usually in what for us would be the “low-hanging breast pocket” area, for carrying small items (supporting the weight of a spare purse that depends from a thong around the wearer’s neck, carrying a hanky, or for thieves, a garotte/strangling cord or thongs for binding wrists and ankles of captives or victims). Larger pockets, or more pockets, would have to be custom-sewn additions, yes, and most cloaks that have such pockets have linings sewn around them that make identifying carried items difficult.
The bulk or “bulge” of such carried items can usually be seen (concealing that betraying shape is one reason many merchants wear a loose scarf knotted so as to hang in an arc across their upper chests; the scarf also serves to readily cover the mouth and nose in dusty or stinky conditions), but a good cloak will hamper identification of exactly what’s being carried.
The hottest fashion in feminine hair fashion is long, free-flowing hair down the back of the head and the shoulders and back below that, that is held “up” just in front of the crown of the scalp with an elaborate hair-comb (with upward-projecting spikes, so it looks like a tiara projecting up through the hair) that ends, on the back of the head, with a decorative weave of wires (think elaborate “open” knots akin to real-world Celtic knotwork) that gathers the “fall” of hair through a large defined ‘tube’ or oval of wire. So the fall of hair is really a gigantic ponytail, spread out wide by the knots.
Those who lack long hair of their own buy woven wigs of washed, combed, sorted, and dyed real hair, originally belonging to multiple others, that attach with hooks and clips to this back-of-the-head knotwork of the hair-comb (bald individuals wear chinstrap thin flesh-hued cords that hold the comb to their scalps). This hairdo is known as “the ar-fall.”
The most fashionable headgear (for wearing over hair) is a prowed, peaked soft leather cap (think Hollywood Robin-Hood caps), fashioned to be very long and thin, that is attached to the hair-comb so it won’t fall off easily AND to keep it raked at an angle to one side of the head, and always “prow low in front, rear up at back.” Such caps always sport at least two large, fluffy feathers (from peacocks or other birds with large, colorful tailfeathers or flight feathers), one of each side of the cap. That’s the minimum; fops and the haughty may wear caps with nine or more feathers stuffed in, though all of them will be raked back (plumes to the rear). Caps of this sort are even appearing that have gauze-work woven among the feathers to support many tiny dangling “sparkle” faceted gemstones.
Such caps are formally known as “fancy-mes” but have now become more commonly known as “dees” (corruption through usages).
If Waterdhavian fashion patterns hold true, the hairdo and the cap will enjoy about the same period of wide popularity: two seasons. Thereafter, they will be used by those who want to signal they are NOT “irresponsible younglings” for another two seasons, and then retained by a few individuals for decades.
Keyhole necklines exist, are common, and are usually called "gracetels." They can be found anywhere along trade routes in the Heartlands, and along the Tashalar and Golden Gulf coasts. "Not allow" is a strong term for the Realms; except for temple, "livery" (servant uniforms) and palace/civil service/military "uniforms," styles of clothing are varied throughout the Realms, rather than following any prevalent or governing code of fashion. Among the nobility and wannabe-nobles (ambitious, socially climbing "new money" merchants) across the Realms, there are fashions that change constantly and are used to differentiate between those who are "fashionable" or "in" and those who are not (just as in our real world), but the great bulk of middle-class ("citizen shopkeepers") and labourers (lower-class, including quite wealthy "crofters" or long-established farmers) regard such chasings after fashion with amusement or even ridicule. What a woman chooses to expose or not of herself is HER affair; the "modesty" of some real-world cultures is present but not a widely-accepted or -followed norm anywhere. So no one would "not allow" the wearing of a low-cut or revealing garment, though some might privately disapprove (or think it "not fitting for the occasion").
"Gracetel" was originally an elven term, it's thought, though its origin has been lost with passing time. Humans definitely had such garment styles in long-ago Netheril, and even earlier. Alternative terms have included "heartbare/heartbaring" and "splendor-glance" (the latter being used in Waterdeep "today" [[1350s through 1370s DR]]).
I can clearly recall a sudden fad among adventurers in the Moonsea North, Dales, Sembia, Cormyr, and Lake of Dragons area, in 1357 DR, for using bucklers (the small, round, hand-sized shields). Great in unexpected duels or close-quarters taverm brawls, but of less utility against orcs or barbarians whaling away at you with huge axes or two-handed swords.
That fad was followed by a fashion that lasted for four years (and in some cases clung for another decade or so) for wearing a huge plate-armored "battle arm" (sleeve, fastened at shoulder and wrist, and covering one arm in a properly-jointed but massively armored [[and adorned]] assembly of overlapping and sliding armor plates that covered one arm from shoulder to wrist. Worn even with festive clothing, not just "when armored and ready for war."
It is correct to say that short skirts (ending above the knee) have been “in fashion", though usage and social acceptability come and go with passing time, each phase lasting one or two decades. Above-the-knee open-bottomed garments have been in fashion for both genders in Unther, for females in the Tashalar and Var the Golden, and for both genders in Estagund. And many other places, for short periods, as well - - but the places I've named have had those fashions return, more than once. The garments go by many names depending on where, when, and their precise style.
The notion of dating an elf portrait or image through garb is doomed. Although in general, over time, elves have moved from near-nakedness adorned with growing plants worn as semi-garments, through diaphanous flowing to-the-wrist and to-the-ankle robes, to increasingly practical garments (leather boots, belts, carry-pouches, and form-fitting clothing), one CAN’T date elves by their fashion.
The reasons are twofold: elves have embraced a bewildering variety of fashions, somewhat like the pace of our real-world haute couture “a new trend every time you turn around,” and the strong elven embrace of individuality: except for priestly or very practical (e.g. fighting, scouting) wear, or garments dictated by ritual and custom (royal robes during specific ceremonies), individual elves tend to wear what they want. Fashions may “sweep” a city or realm, but not since Cormanthor have elves scorned other elves as “out of fashion.” Nowadays, there’s really no such thing as that, among elves, because every elf picks and chooses what they like from the passing parade of fashion. Therefore elves can be encountered wearing just about anything.
-- George Krashos |
"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 10 Apr 2018 : 13:15:48
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quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
That fad was followed by a fashion that lasted for four years (and in some cases clung for another decade or so) for wearing a huge plate-armored "battle arm" (sleeve, fastened at shoulder and wrist, and covering one arm in a properly-jointed but massively armored [[and adorned]] assembly of overlapping and sliding armor plates that covered one arm from shoulder to wrist. Worn even with festive clothing, not just "when armored and ready for war."
This remains one of my fave bits of Edlore, right here, because it gave me an idea for a rather fun NPC I'll eventually get around to sharing. Honestly, I'd like to play the character as a PC, but it's require a lot of working with the DM and figuring out odd ways to bend rules into new but still unbroken shapes. |
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moonbeast
Senior Scribe
USA
522 Posts |
Posted - 10 Apr 2018 : 16:59:22
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quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
Up near Waterdeep... lot of furs.... down near Halruaa, light, thin cloth.
What's Waterdeep climate? Similar to New York City? It snows on most winters? But warm during the summers?
Or more like Seattle, rains way too much, and sometimes a winter snowfall.
Sorry, my current collection of 5E books rarely mentions climate/topography on the Sword Coast cities. And I never played during the 2E to 4E era when they published 5 billion books on every little thing like The Lingerie Sourcebook of Thay.
I agree that attire will surely be influenced by local climate. So my best guess is that Waterdeep is probably a cold place, since it's just 100 or 200 miles south of The North (roughly the latitude of the Spine of the World, Icewind Dale, the Dwarven northern cities, etc). So Waterdeep would be a climate just roughly below the tundra areas of The North? Someone can clarify? |
Edited by - moonbeast on 10 Apr 2018 17:08:28 |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4689 Posts |
Posted - 10 Apr 2018 : 21:35:24
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From http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=19153#448745
quote:
Mournblade is right; a warm current and winds both make Waterdeep more balmy than it would otherwise be. And Mount Waterdeep shelters much of the city from the direct force of storms blowing ashore.
However, these same "from sea to land" prevailing weather patterns make much of Waterdeep a damp, misty place when the full sun isn't beating down.
And things are definitely warming up, in Waterdeep's vicinity (i.e. the winters in the late 1200s DR and the first half of the 1300s DR were far more severe, with the harbor freezing up, etc., than they are now).
All of this comes from Ed, BTW, and being as he created the Realms and Waterdeep along with it...
love,
THO
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Gelcur
Senior Scribe
523 Posts |
Posted - 13 Apr 2018 : 06:50:56
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I imagine as far as fashion goes, major cities dictate the fashion in the region and it sort of slowly trickles out to the country side. I bet that is where last seasons cloths probably go to, could even be how the fashions spread, albeit a bit behind.
@George
I love this sort of Realms lore really gives a good footing to go further. You wouldn't by any chance have any more info on head wear squirreled away? I have always wanted to create a griffon who wears a bowler/derby hat and smokes cigars. I always doubted that style of hat would exist in the Realms figured it would have to be a "rare" import from a different time/space. |
The party come to a town befallen by hysteria
Rogue: So what's in the general store?
DM: What are you looking for?
Rogue: Whatevers in the store.
DM: Like what?
Rogue: Everything.
DM: There is a lot of stuff.
Rogue: Is there a cart outside?
DM: (rolls) Yes.
Rogue: We'll take it all, we may need it for the greater good. |
Edited by - Gelcur on 13 Apr 2018 06:52:22 |
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Apparel of the realms
