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Originally posted by The Masked Mage

Does anyone know if any baneliches were ever detailed other than in the Ruins of Zhentil Keep box set? By that I mean specific personalities, not the redone stats for the monster books.

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Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

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Originally posted by The Masked Mage

Does anyone know if any baneliches were ever detailed other than in the Ruins of Zhentil Keep box set? By that I mean specific personalities, not the redone stats for the monster books.

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There was one in the novel Finder's Bane.

For the most part, though, they were presented as generic monsters and then killed off, offscreen.

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Originally posted by The Masked Mage

The wording about them in the Cloak and Dagger sourcebook is:

Hidden baneliches in Hillsfar, Phlan, Tantras, Yhaunn, Talbegg, and Marsember explode as their power is ripped from them.

Now, those locations make up a very specific region, which leaves the vast majority of Faerun - where Bane has been worshipped a long time - to have as many baneliches as we want. :)

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Originally posted by The Masked Mage

It only names 6 cities. It doesn't even name Zhentil Keep if you look closely... so the ONE AND ONLY banelich we knew about might still be there in his subterranean hideout. :P It would seem a huge oversight if that's not the intention.

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Originally posted by Lord Karsus

-I think it was Monsters of Faerun during the 3e era that had Baneliches, but I don't really know if it presented any new information on them, as opposed to just giving them updated 3e stats.

-Was never a fan of them being something "different" as opposed to just regular Liches, or some other kind non-lich of Undead.

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Originally posted by The Masked Mage

Update - excerpt from the timeline of Cloak and Dagger

1370 DR, Hammer 11-20: Manshoon hears about the events in Mulmaster, and hears that the beholders there are working with Fzoul. Rather than risk confronting him (and potentially a god) directly, Manshoon sends spies against Fzoul and Selfaril. He also discreetly sets up a meeting with a banelich to use against the priest of Xvim.

This is the Banelich that attacks Fzoul openly and is destroyed by the Scepter of the Sorcerer Kings, Faram Khaldan, former High Imperceptor of Bane.

The instigator is Manshoon - one of him anyway.

Now lets assume he didn't stop with just one Banelich, but instead sought say a dozen of them out. He gets the Baneliches who are busy doing what liches do in their catacombs to get together and start acting to oppose the Heretic Xvimlar. Something THEY do is what causes the later "Bane-birth" - killing off the pretender and restoring the one true Bane to his full glory. This is what I'm going to start writing up for my home-brew. There is no evidence either way in any source I've read recently (which goes through every mention of these topics and Zhents from 2nd to 5th ed).

Now - as for the extent of Bane's worship - he was "the most widely worshipped" of the evil gods before the TOT. This says to me you can get Baneliches all over. The office of High Imperceptor is kind of like the office of Magister - it goes to the current most powerful priest of Bane. I see no reason to assume this would be limited to the Moonsea region. This stuff comes from Faith and Avatars.

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Originally posted by The Masked Mage

The Moonsea is where Bane is most openly worshipped in the 1000s through 1300s. There are a lot of years before that :P

Check this bit from the Ruins box:

Stallac Benadi, First Imperceptor of Bane (735-844 DR): First and greatest follower of Bane, invested with the title of Imperceptor by the avatar of the Lord of Strife himself. Seventh in Faerūn to receive the greatest gift of Bane.

Tomar of Bane, Second Imperceptor of Bane (801-877 DR): Most ruthless of all Imperceptors, Tomar’s greatest achievement was the introduction of a deadly plague into the Western Heartlands, causing the deaths of thousands. Eighth in Faerūn to receive the greatest gift of Bane. WESTERN HEARTLANDS

Harr Santolic, Third Imperceptor of Bane (848-966 DR): Following in the footstep of his predecessors, Harr Santolic is attributed
with the rise in the church of Bane in the Western Heartlands. AGAIN WESTERN HEARTLANDS

Wedic B’donder, Fourth Imperceptor of Bane (901-1010 DR): A savage Imperceptor, who brought the worship of the Lord of Strife to full blossom within the walls of Zhentil Keep. Last in Faerūn to receive the greatest gift of Bane.

The "First and greatest" line has to be taken with a grain of salt because that is what Stellac claims in his history. Also, we can infer that the "greatest gift of Bane" is the that they were made Baneliches, as that date 1010 DR corresponds to the date when Bane created the last Banelich. So, this tells us that there were 6 Baneliches in existence BEFORE 844 DR and that they were not High Imperceptors because they predated the office. Also we know that both Stellac and Wedic were based in Zhentil Keep, but that prior to about 1000 DR the area was not the center of Bane's worship.

Also remember that most temples of Bane are hidden, because the other faiths gather en masse when such temples are revealed and are seen as powerful. I'd bet on Hidden temple in every major city that does not have an open temple. I'd also bet that many of the leaders of these temples are powerful enough to hold their own in a dangerous environment.

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Originally posted by Brimstone

Bane did/does have a presence in the Lake of Steam area...

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Originally posted by Markustay

So everyone is just going to ignore Thay, or the rest of the Unapproachable East? (and I would include the Hordelands in that as well, because all of the 'Dark Three' are mentioned in The Horde material).

In the novel series, the Bane church was being portrayed as being 'above' Kossuth's (which I found odd). Heck, Szass Tam even summoned Bane (something dozens of far more powerful liches have never been able to accomplish, BTW). Of course, it we put a bunch of Baneliches there - which fits the 'feel' of the place perfectly - one has then wonder as to who those liches answer to - Bane, or Szass Tam?

And could Larloch possibly have control of a few? Could our 'current' (1e/2e/3e period) info on them be 'light' on Western Heartlands Liches because Larloch sought them out and enslaved them? That could be our answer right there - Bane's church may have been much more omnipresent pre-1200's, but between the rise of civilization in the region (major settlements getting rid of their Banite temples), and Larloch going around and capturing their 'nukes' (Baneliches), that could have caused a massive reversal of power for the Banites, and they had to settle for the Moonsea - their original main base of operations.

While we are discussing Bane, were there any Bane-like powers around before he reared his head? Like, who did the Netherese, Jhaamdath, and calimshan have in their pantheons? I mean, the OE had Set (not quite the same thing but he fills the niche), but everywhere else was there a vacuum?

Or did everyone just forget about a god... or group of gods? (something to do with the Dawn Catclysm perhaps?)

There is (core) canon proof Bane has been around 'since the beginning', and now that there is no such thing as 'core' (its all just 'D&D canon' now), that becomes part of OUR canon, so bane was always around, but not present in the realms. Why would that be? Was he just someone else before (an alias), or did something happen to the original Bane and everyone just forgot? (like what happened to Kiaransalee, or what Ao attempted to do with himself... which didn't work... which seems to imply what mortals did had more power than Ao... but lets just ignore that little thing).

And the reason why my brain even went there is because there might be more ancient Baneliches that people don't even realize were Baneliches. Ones that no longer have to answer to the 'upstart' Bane (just like how chosen of Mystyl seem to just be left 'hanging out to dry' when she came back as Mystra). You rally ant to stretch things? Say that Acerarak is a 'failed' Banelich (although I think I just read somewhere that he was a worshiper of Orcus while he lived...)

Too bad he isn't a devil instead... I could have had a LOT of fun with that. Orcus as an 'undead' aspect of THE Bane (The multispheric, Estelar Bane from 4e lore). Of course, demons and devils have switched sides before... Orcus... Bane looks kinda Orcish... Hmmmmm... Orcus was also a mortal once, which I just found out. A Servant of Asmodeus corrupted by Gruumsh... hmmmmm... thats one I have to ponder on.

Maybe... ALL liches were Baneliches... Maybe Bane invented the process, and the others are just the 'knock-offs'.

EDIT:
And then there is the Tenbrous... the first Orcus 'died', and then something was left, and that 'something' was the Tenebrous, which became the Orcus we know of today. So maybe Orcus was a 'Bane'. We don't know his mortal name or much about his pre-Orcus existence - and the thing that survived was a badly corrupted piece of divinity (Godshard), which was the Tenebrous. It wasn't until after this 'come back' that he becomes Orcus. So what if he was a Chosen of someone else, and that little fragment of divinity within him is what survived, thus Orcus is something akin to an Atropal (an 'undead' Godshard that became its own thing).

So perhaps this 'Tenebrous' was the very first lich? And after that, maybe Bane saw the usefulness in those kinds of servants and created the Baneliches?

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Originally posted by Markustay

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Originally posted by Brimstone

Bane did/does have a presence in the Lake of Steam area...

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I wonder if the Twisted Rune would allow a banelich to join?

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Originally posted by Shadowsoul

Weren't Baneliches basically Bane's Chosen of Mystra where as they each held a portion of Bane's divinity? Basically a get out of death free card.

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