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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
 Posted - 17 Jan 2018 : 18:59:42
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So, I know the Orcgate Wars were from -1,076 DR to -1,069 DR...
BUT, the Orcgate itself was open from -1,081 DR until...
I can't find information on when the gate was closed...or even if it was.
My powers of "search" in the documents I have access to are not giving me the answer on this.
The Orcgate Wars were being fought for around 7 years...that is a long time to be fighting a war. Were the orcs reinforcing themselves for some part of this before the gates were closed? They didn't retreat back through the portal; so why not?
Were they simply living off the land because they had no line of retreat or supply?
Was the portal only one way FROM the Orc World?
If Thayd opened the portal in -1,081 DR and "nobody knew about it" then where exactly was it that the orcs first attacked?
If nobody knew about it...how the hell is it written about?
I could have sworn I found a timeline a while back (years ago?) that laid out the War in more detail; but now I can't seem to find any information on it at all.
Sorry for the disconnected rambling; but any help would be appreciated.
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jan 2018 : 19:12:19
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For some reason, I always pictured it opening in Thazalhar, and thats where most of the godly battles took place (my assumption is the orc armies got pushed back to the gate, and the deities were trying to close it there).
Not sure why I've always thought that, but part of it may be a throw-away reference in a Hordelands product that mentions Thazalhar ('of old') being its own state (political entity). It was part of a list of 'fallen realms', I think. Thus, I may be thinking that Thazalhar (and the Ganathwood) were a much more fertile and obliging piece of terrain at one point, and then 'something major' happened that changed all that (so, the Orcgate war is a convenient tool for this take). BTW, there was more than one Orcgate in canon - there was anther opened, that's unrelated to the one that caused the well-known war (I forget the details). I asked Ed about it some years ago, and he responded (the answer was something along the lines of, "Yes, there were at least two, and probably many more no-one knows about... yet" - something like that). |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 17 Jan 2018 21:03:34 |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6361 Posts |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jan 2018 : 19:34:12
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quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal
Thazalhar was much more fertile but was annihilated in the aftermath of Thays formation. When eltab was summoned and his demon army marched on mulhorand there was a lot of fighting in Thazalhar.
Dalor are you looking for canon only or other ideas. I have working on Thay and the Orcgate Wars for a while now and have a few canon based ideas about what happened
I would love to hear ANY ideas that don't go contrary to canon material.  |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jan 2018 : 21:09:23
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Yeah, Thazalhar (and the oddball city of Sultim, which seems to have been around 'forever', and yet avoids getting demolished by warring factions... AND remains 'neutral' through it all... some sort of 'divine protection', I wonder?) seems to have been a 'no-mans land' for several major wars, and whatever sort of people and society that may have once been there got almost utterly annihlated. I say 'almost', because we still have Sultim sitting right there, looking all smug.
The place should look like a 'blasted battlefield' - probably worse than the Stonelands - with crators everywhere, and the rusting debri of war (maybe even a few non-functional (maybe) 'war hulks' (Juggernaughts) leftover from the Great Conflagration. That sort of thing. Almost like how you'd picture a post-apocalyptic setting, but on a much more localized scale). |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6361 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jan 2018 : 21:16:27
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Okay well here's what I have.
-1087 DR: The Theurgist Adept Thayd rebels, along with most of the wizards in Unther and Mulhorand.
•-1081 DR: Thayd and his conspirators are defeated. Thay’d is executed, but prophesises that Mulhorand and Unther will never be as great again.
•-1076 DR to -1069 DR: The Orcgate Wars: The Orcgate opens in what is now the Plateau of Thay; hundreds of thousands of orcs invade the northern shore of the Alamber Sea. Mulhorand loses control of the Precept of the Priador while Unther and Akanu lose the settlements in Altumbel and the Wizards’ Reach.
•-1071 DR: Battle of the Gods: The forces of Akanu, Mulhorand, and Unther; led by their godkings, launch a concerted attack on the orcs occupying their northern territories with help from native tribes in neighbouring lands. A series of grand battles begins that sees the orcs summon Avatars of their god’s and the deaths of many gods of the Old Empires; including Re, Amar-Du’uk, Sin-An’na, TiaMa’at. and many other Akanic and Untheric deities.
•-1069 DR: The Orcgate Wars are ended, the orcs are defeated and driven from the lands around the Priador Plateau.
•-1068 DR:The Scattering of the Tusks: Defeated by the forces of Mulhorand, the surviving grey orcs summoned during the Orcgate Wars flee northward into surrounding lands, coming into conflict with the elves of Lethyr. Felling trees and dying by the thousands under a storm of elvish arrows, the orcs construct crude boats and cross the Easting Reach.
Its a mix of events gathered from all the sources I can find with a few extrapolations of my own but is pretty much all we have officially on the Orcgate Wars.
Now comes my own musings and the justifications behind it.
Thayd was not the grand orchestrator behind the Orcgate Wars. He was manipulated by another and that other was Set himself.
There is a quote about the lands north of Mulhorand being known as the Precept of Priador. Like all Precepts at the time they were ruled over by a Divine Precept (one of the godkings) and this Divine Precept was noticeably absent during the Orcgate Wars.
That got me thinking that perhaps somebody sneakily opened the Orcgate on purpose and did a runner so that Mulhorand would have to pick up the pieces. The only one I can think of who would be dastardly enough is Set. He masterminded the rebellion and the Orcgate plan to weaken Mulhorand in preparation for his own takeover bid.
The Orcgate was opened using Imaskari magics but the Imaskari magics used to abduct the people of Mulhorand and Unther from their homelands were actual physical portals, huge great rings inscribed with batrachi runes and glyphs, kind of like a Stargate (from the film). The people of Mulhorand and Unther spent some time in Raurin before establishing their nations so Set may have found some clues to this portal there.
So Set leaves powerful magics and information about the portal lying around Thay and where to find the pieces and Thayd dutifully begins collecting them and when he feels he is ready he rebels (not part of Sets plan). So Set leads the forces of Mulhorand against Thayd and wins and confiscates the Orcgate Portal and deactivates it or confiscated it before it was activated (the portal is actually one of the twin portals the Imaskari used now rebuilt). Set looks like a hero and Mulhorandi thinks the threat is gone.
Set takes the portal to the top of the plateau and turns it on and then does a runner to Raurin.
It takes a few years for the orcs to find the portal and figure out what it is. They head through and see a land ripe for the conquer. Within 5 years the armies are ready and the orcs quickly overrun a lightly defended Thay.
That is -1076/-1075 DR. The orcs destroy all Mulhorandi presence up to the Thazalhar and destroy all Untheric settlements up to the forest of Yuirshanaar.
It takes Unther and Mulhorand 3-4 years to gather all its forces from across both empires. Tribes of Nar, Raumathari, and Sossrim harry the orcs from the north while the bulk of Mulhorandi forces push up from the Thazalhar and the forces of Unther land on the south coast of Thay.
By the end of the year they have trapped the bulk of the orc forces against the second escarpment and lake Thaylambar. Here is where the battle of the gods occurs. Mulhorand and Unther were supposed to smash the trapped orc forces but Tiamat and her cultists were hidden in the Untheric ranks and their timely betrayal caused the massacre of the Untheric forces and the near destruction of the Mulhorandi.
It all went well for Set. The forces of Mulhorand were decimated and Ra was slain which allowed Set to make a play for the throne of Mulhorand a few centuries later.
After the battle of the gods the Mulhorandi retreated while the Untheric forces pursued the remaining orcs with avengeance. It is during this scouring campaign that Nergal was slain (I noted he wasn't slain during the battle of the gods so I put him as slain later) far north of Thay and buried by Gilgeam who was with him (the Unapproachable East notes GIlgeam as burying him I think).
By -1068 DR the orcs had retreated north and west to the forest of Lethyr where they cross the easting reach. Others were taken as slaves back to Unther where they were sacrificed or worked to death (but some escaped).
The Orcgate was ultimately deactivated and dismantled with pieces of it buried all over Thay. I figure the Mulhorandi did this around -1071/-1070 DR while Unther was pursuing the routing orcs. The portal couldn't be destroyed so it had to be taken apart. It is the pieces of the portal that were used by the Red Wizards in the Orcgate Affairs 2000 years later, but they didn't have all the pieces so it opened a portal in the North and randomly disgorged the orcs all over
Faerun.
All based on canon (albeit some is very loosely based). No extra dates really but a hidden behind the scenes manipulator and a new motive for the events (a petty power grab).
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jan 2018 : 21:43:26
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quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal
The Orcgate was ultimately deactivated and dismantled with pieces of it buried all over Thay. I figure the Mulhorandi did this around -1071/-1070 DR while Unther was pursuing the routing orcs. The portal couldn't be destroyed so it had to be taken apart. It is the pieces of the portal that were used by the Red Wizards in the Orcgate Affairs 2000 years later, but they didn't have all the pieces so it opened a portal in the North and randomly disgorged the orcs all over
Faerun.
I like all that; but I wanted to focus on the part I've quoted here.
So I remember the Orcgate Affairs only vaguely...I know it was in 955 DR and caused a political nightmare for The Covenant.
Besides wiping out a temple of Loviatar...what else related to the Orcgate Affairs happened? |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11830 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jan 2018 : 23:43:52
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Gonna lay out some things, and they change a little bit from some stuff I was researching the other day.
One thing that I recently correlated is that the orcgate wars involved the Nars
The orcgate opens somewhere around Thay or North of it in -1081, when Thayd dies. His quote to the Mulan people is because he knows he's setup some contingency that upon his death that that portal WILL open.
From maybe -1081 to -1076 orcs are quietly coming through and scouting this new world... a world that's rich with food and resources.... maybe they even start building a city on the edge of said portal
The orcgate wars end in -1069 DR when the orcs are finally killed and the gate is closed
The Nars, as part of the orcgate wars, find this orcgate and the city surrounding the orcgate. Its kind of a nice city... it just needs some rework... oooh, and let's rename it Shandaular, because they don't like the orc name. Maybe some Mulans also help with founding the new city.
The Nars open a gate in the middle of Shandaular in -1064 DR that stays open permanently and the other end of it is in the council hills
So, my belief is that rather than creating two massive portals, combine them. Then, furthermore, link said portal network into the concept we have been talking of of an elven network of portals in at least Council Hills (Shandaular South), Ashanath (Shandaular North), Llewyrrwood (modern day Neverwinter Wood).... and this helps cover the Rus appearing in Rashemen, the Illuskans that join the Arkauin, the orcgate wars, the orcgate affair, the Llewyrr that head to the Moonshaes, and possibly even elves coming to Toril FROM the Orc World millennia ago.... and possibly even the first orcs coming to Toril from said same world millennia ago as well. In fact, I just thought about it and the Lythari in the hordelands would make an interesting group to maybe have interloped from the orc world.
Oh, and all those Untheric gods dying.... that was the orcs using the portal in Ashanath to transport to the council hills area just south of unther and do a sneak attack. This is WHY the people of Shandaular were busy trying to figure out HOW to open the portal down to council hills, because they knew it had been done before.
This helps build on the concept that the Nars and Raumathari weren't masters of planar magic or anything to build these portals. They were just learning how to tinker with what someone else had already built.
Oh, and on how people "knew about" when the orcs did what prior to attacking? They read the orcs logs.... because these were NOT stupid unthinking orcs during the orcgate wars. So, when they captured the orc city, they were able to retroactively start to put 2 and 2 together. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
Edited by - sleyvas on 17 Jan 2018 23:50:38 |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6361 Posts |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11830 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jan 2018 : 15:41:13
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quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal
Well ive got nothing more on the orcgate affairs than a link to the other orcgate. Normally i wouldnt link something just based on a name but in this case it is linked by magic (gates), people (wizards living in Thay) and geography (Thay) and lastly the name.
Im using the Orcgate to explain how orcs have managed to reach distant lands.
Orcs move by hording. Until the time of delzoun and eaerlanns fall the orcs got no further than the high forest. With those two empires lost the orcs horded further south each time until by 1000 DR they were as far as Tethyr.
Now there are orcs in the shaar and in the moonshaes and just about everywhere. Grey orcs dont horde so how did the orcs get so far south and west when just about every human, elf, dwarf, halfling will slaughter them on sight.
The Llewyrrwood (Neverwinter wood) portal for the orcs in the north (noting the covenant was in Neverwinter... and the orc horde disappears in the orcgate affair near there to go "south".... the Thayans stole them for experimentation or to make an army or to make slaves?).... linking to where the Llewyrr went in the Moonshaes (so orcs in the moonshaes).... linking to Ashanath (aka, the orcgate just north of Thay in some old ruins) and Council Hills..
Also, the elves of Durpar in the Ajmer Forest may have also had a portal termination point in this network, and thus the Leshay involvement with the Imaskari.
Now, whether the elves themselves BUILT this network or they themselves just started using it like I'm saying others are.... its possible that the batrachi built the damn things, or even the Sauroids.... or even the races that died off when the sun was destroyed during the Shadow Epoch PRIOR to the Sarrukh.... Or different races may have built different ones and tied them together. For instance, maybe the elves built the termination in the Moonshaes. Maybe the Sauroids built the termination in Ashanath or Council Hills. These portal may from certain portals even be able to open to say the Orc homeworld from certain ones and the Sauroid home world from others.
Note, I would NOT recommend tying the mucklestones/Circle of Leth and the portals throughout the Yuirwood/Forest of Lethyr into this. However, the (presumably) elven druids (Lythari?) that set those up MAY have studied the orcgate in Ashanath. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
Edited by - sleyvas on 18 Jan 2018 16:44:12 |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6361 Posts |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11830 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jan 2018 : 18:22:00
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quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal
It was a whole horde that disappeared. I dont think they would all voluntarily wander into a portal and be happy about it.
Im still putting it down to magic gone awry. The thayans did want to kidnap orcs and were using pieces of the orcgate to do it. But i opened up many little portals right in front of orcs and they stumbled right into them. Some were delivered to the thayans but others ended up in Endrera i believe nd destroyed a nation of loviatan worshippers so it seems to me that many were disgorged in random destinations that the thayans did not intend.
The portals closed soon after and the pieces of the orcgate that were used teleported themselves randomly away (or maybe not so random).
I always like unintended consequences.
I was always thinking the ashanath to shaar portal was part of the network the ilythiiri used to reach narathmault.
Who said voluntarily? Mind control some leaders.... the grunts do as told. They're told to walk through a portal... they do. Hell, they may even be tricked, because the portal in the Llewyrrwood may not LOOK like a portal, so they don't know what's happening until they're on the other side. I could definitely see elves having some illusion magic in play of some sort surrounding their portals.
Hmmmm, and on Narathmault. I wouldn't necessarily be for or against that idea. My main question would be why. I've said why I think these other portals would be linked, essentially to make canon lore true without generating all these portals all over the place |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6361 Posts |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jan 2018 : 21:30:18
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I mentioned that 'other Orcgate' I've come across in canon. I frget the details about it, other than i asked ed about it years ago.
Does anyone else recall what I am talking about? It may have even been an OGB piece of lore that was subsequently ignored (because it didn't 'fit' with the other Orcgate stuff).. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6361 Posts |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6666 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jan 2018 : 22:39:28
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I always had the Shandaular/Council Hills/Ruathym portals as constructs of the sarrukh - specifically the Ba'etith arm of that race. I think the Orcgate was separate but likely a leftover from the Imaskari - maybe some "dial-up" massive portal that could be used to access other worlds and what was used to get their slaves. Thayd recovered it and set it into motion to dial up the orc world but it didn't connect until he and his rebellion was gone (I don't see all magic as "instant" - something massive like a portal between worlds wouldn't come into existence after an hour of chanting).
The Orcgates Affair was different in that a host of pre-Zulkir (notice the capital "Z"!) mages opened a series of portals throughout the mountain ranges of the South in an arc from the Cloven Mountains across to the Dragonsword Mountains, seeking to disrupt Unther and Mulhorand and distract them from destroying fledgling Thay.
-- George Krashos |
"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
Edited by - George Krashos on 18 Jan 2018 22:43:22 |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jan 2018 : 23:44:25
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It might be more fun to say that the Imaskari did set it up, but the Orcs proved too volatile and unruly to make good slaves, so they abandoned the idea of using them, and went on to other groups.
On the other hand, I picture the Imaskari 'Capture-Gates' as massive 'scoops' of magical energy that literally scooped-up thousands of people at a time. There was something like this in the Wellworld series of novels - giant Gates that could scoop-up entire planetary populations and teleport them 'elsewhere' (really, they were 'stored' in a big computer and then recreated as other things - the Markovians really just needed the souls). And the Gates were hex-shaped, and passed through other physical matter, just grabbing all the sentient beings. I imagine the Imaskari Gates being like that. So maybe the Orcs didn't voluntarily march through them, but rather got picked-up and were very angry when they found themselves on another world.
Could the Grays be evolved Orcs? Further away from the Goblinod progenitors? Then perhaps Sarrukh or someone else (Batrachi?) tried this with orcs once before, and it didn't work out, and that's where the original green orcs in FR came from. What color are Scro? (I just sensed a giant hamster's ears perking up, and the distant sound of a charging rodent of doom LOL) |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 19 Jan 2018 18:41:51 |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6361 Posts |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11830 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jan 2018 : 12:36:02
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Ah, easier to assume that the Thayans kept the orcs around since there is no mention of their use. Probably started breeding them as an alternative to shifty gnolls (and while I know Thay has centaurs, I picture the gnoll to centaur ratio to be something like 10 to 1). They would have needed military after they sent the Chessentan mercenaries home (bearing in mind that 2 years prior as well, Chessenta was invading and occupying the cities of the Wizard's Reach right next door).
That being said, I just realized something, and I rescind the idea tying the orcgate to Shandaular. I thought it was closed, but in fact, it says destroyed. So, we do know related to Imaskari, and probably down on the first escarpment of the Priador. This does also mean that the orcgate affair did not use THAT portal.
–1069 DR The Orcgate is destroyed, and the invading orcs and their deities are defeated in the Priador
953 DR Year of the Guiding Crow
Tchazzar of Chessenta attacks the cities of the Wizards’ Reach, causing the fall of the League of Samathar. Various cities are conquered by Tchazzar [929, 1018] or make a separate peace with the warlord, becoming tributary states.
955 DR Year of the Telltale Candle
Orcgates Affair: The mages of the Covenant [797, 976] gather a great, armed host from the human settlements of the North to confront an orc horde massing in the Spine of the World. In a move known as the Orcgates Affair, the Red Wizards [934, 976] of Thay magically transport the horde far to the south by means of great portals. The North is spared much devastation, and the failure of the orcs to appear deals a significant blow to the influence and prestige of the Covenant. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6361 Posts |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36805 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jan 2018 : 13:21:56
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quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal
Destroyed isnt very descriptive. If you take a jug and smash it then it would be considered destroyed, does not mean you could not put it back together. Yes the repair would mean the jug does not work as well as before but it might work enough
A portal between worlds is going to take more than a little duct tape to fix.
Just because some destroyed things can be repaired, it doesn't mean all destroyed things can be repaired, or that such attempted repairs will result in full functionality. With a lot of things, starting over from scratch is easier and more efficient than repairing something destroyed. |
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The Masked Mage
Great Reader
USA
2420 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jan 2018 : 14:31:51
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| It would probably be just as easy to create a new orcgate as to find and repair the old one. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36805 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jan 2018 : 14:48:42
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quote:
Originally posted by The Masked Mage
It would probably be just as easy to create a new orcgate as to find and repair the old one.
That would be my expectation. |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6361 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jan 2018 : 15:40:03
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Well im intending that the gate didnt work as well because it had been taken apart and not put back together right.
So the intention was to steal a horde of mountain orcs and release them on mulhorand and unther (and keep a few for experimentation), but what happened is that the orcs got released randomly all over faerun but with a larger concentration nearer to unther and mulhorand and thay. It provides a plot device to explain orcs appearing in places they shouldnt exist.
I dont think anyone in the realms today possesses the knowledge to make permanent gates like that except for halaster (there was a whole adventure about kidnapping him to gain that knowledge).
Im thinking that creating a one way portal is easiest to do with magic and can be done with the regular spells from the weave. It allows a temporary portal to appear that allows instantaneous travel over a distance but only one way.
Two way portal requires the same spells be cast to move back in the other direction.
The longer the distance the more errors occur when using the portal (ed always built in errors). I figure the elves knew to keep the distances small to increase the chances of success and thats why we have portal networks stretching across faerun. Humans are greedy and always try to go as far as they can at once.
The gates the imaskari and sarrukh used are physical gateways like the stargate. You can pass through them to a destination with much less error chance and they stay open or closed as long as you want. To get back you need to build a similar gate on the other side.
These gates require skilled magic that few mastered (imaskari, batrachi) as they never degrade like a normal portal they are permanent unless switched off or redirected to another terminus.
Im going to treat the gates like an artifact so destroying them is almost impossible. Instead the mulhorandi took the gate apart in segments and buried the segments in the ground.
The red wizards dug up enough of these segments but rather than put it back together (which they couldnt do because they didnt have all the segments) they used each segment as part of its own portal and opened multiple little portals into the orc warrens. The magic was unstable and the orcs got dumped all over faerun along with the segmenta of the orcgate (also provides the potential that someone could gather them all together again). |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jan 2018 : 15:56:43
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| Could be that the orcs Thay stole became more stock for their neo-Orog program... |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jan 2018 : 18:48:11
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quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal
I had never considered the orcgate affair being used to occupy Unther and Mulhorand before but that was partly because there was no mentiom of any orcs appearing in Unther or Mulhorand at the time.
Easily remedied as both those realms are very secretive and do not really allow foreigners in.
The big problem i see is that there is no mention of orcs anywhere in Unther at all. So either they were incorrectly classified as something else, they were almost totally eradicated by Unther (unlikely given the decline of Unther by this time), or they were killed off by something else (perhaps a disease).
Time for my brain to start working on mountain orc incursions in Unther and what kind of ramifications that might have.
Cheers George, you always provide amazing insights (i finished a fortress in the Uthangol Mountains as you suggested and then hid it from the world to explain its lack of mention).
See? Different people read the same material and get a different picture of something.
I figured the population of Unther to be about 98% Orc.
Just a slight exaggeration LOL, but I did think Unther was loaded with Orcs. It was the only place where we see orcs getting along fine with humans, and we also see an orc (half-orc, but close enough) ruler in a nearby citystate. In fact, the only place were Orcs 'horde' and go on rampages (and are therefor 'Kill on sight' by humans) is in The North. nearly everywhere else, they are taken on a person-by-person basis, just like everyone else.
Now Drow - those guys are UNIVERSALLY feared and hated. Except in The North... not anymore, anyway. Stupid Drizzt - he turned out to be Lolth's greatest 'trap card'. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 19 Jan 2018 18:49:06 |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6361 Posts |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11830 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jan 2018 : 19:32:47
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quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden
Could be that the orcs Thay stole became more stock for their neo-Orog program...
Or the original stock. Bear in mind, this is only 30 years after the founding of Thay. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11830 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jan 2018 : 19:40:52
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quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal
Isnt chessenta the place with a city of half orcs ruled by a half orc.
That was airspur, and its now destroyed (or went to Abeir depending on your take). Of course, that's only if you accept current lore. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6361 Posts |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11830 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jan 2018 : 20:16:05
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quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal
Just checked out my archive.
No mention of orcs anywhere in the lore regarding unther except for that immediately relevant to the Orcgate Wars. No stray orcs to be found anywhere in Unther. No NPCs no monsters nothing.
Looked up the bit about what I thought was Endrara being destroyed by orcs from the Orcgates Affair and it says
955 DR Year of the Telltale Candle: Orcgates Affair: The mages of the Covenant [797, 976] gather a great, armed host from the human settlements of the North to confront an orc horde massing in the Spine of the World. In a move known as the Orcgates Affair, the Red Wizards [934, 976] of Thay magically transport the horde far to the south by means of great portals. The North is spared much devastation, and the failure of the orcs to appear deals a significant blow to the influence and prestige of the Covenant.
Multiple portals open in Undelos and disgorge untold numbers of orcs that annihilate Undelos, the Sacred Throne of Skulls and Naneethrama as well as 50 or more cities and realms across the rest of Faerűn.
So it was called the Orcgates Affair (note the plural) and 50 other cities were destroyed. I'm happy with that as it means I can have multiple portals disgorging orcs randomly and plenty of cities destroyed (maybe even a few in Unther - I feel a ruin coming along).
Where's this lore from where it detail 50 cities? |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Topic |
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Orcgate Wars
