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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
 Posted - 24 Jan 2018 : 19:02:58
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quote:
Originally posted by Fineva
I found that Artus Cimber is regarded as Chosen of Auril. He doesn't seem to be her worshipper or even close to one. Looking deeper he has the Ring of Winter. Could it be that the chosen power resides in items as well as beings? The ring is sentient after all.
With this I submit the dragon masks once assembled as some similar power as Tiamat needed them to return to the world, thus answering my questions about why a chosen of Tiamat wasn't in the ritual...it was, only as a great mask..subtle.
Any speculations and comment welcome.
THIS is a brilliant line of reasoning - I LOVE it!
What if the power of the Frost-Sprite Queen was fragmented when Auril was driven insane (by the Black Diamond)? Pieces of her consciousness - and power - wound-up residing in the Regalia of Winter. Thus, the only way to fully 'reassemble' herself (and get most of her mind back) is to collect all the bits, which would include the one Artus holds... I absolutely LOVE it! It can connect so many dots together!
This means the Raven Queen probably got ahold of one of the fragments, and that would be how she snatched a piece of godhood for herself. Kiaransalee could be another involved! Instead of all this 'reaching' I've been doing linking them all together, we could just say that each of them has an artifact, and that's the common thread. Its so much simpler (easier to swallow).
Kudos!
quote:
Originally posted by LordofBones
Only in the revolving door that is death in the Forgotten Realms. Other pantheons have deities that are well and truly gone.
It does start to look like a particularly cheesy anime, after awhile, doesn't it? When death becomes meaningless, so does paying attention. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 24 Jan 2018 19:05:38 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jan 2018 : 21:31:40
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quote:
Originally posted by Fineva
I found that Artus Cimber is regarded as Chosen of Auril. He doesn't seem to be her worshipper or even close to one. Looking deeper he has the Ring of Winter. Could it be that the chosen power resides in items as well as beings? The ring is sentient after all.
Where is it said that the ring is sentient? I don't recall that one. |
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3741 Posts |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11829 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jan 2018 : 02:21:51
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| I could buy the concept that some gods have an essence tied into some artifacts, and maybe they want these back (like Sauron and his ring), and that maybe the possessor gains the powers of a chosen in some form. Someone had noted that there were rules for such in earlier editions, calling such items legacy items, and just possessing them didn't open you to them. You had to unlock its abilities somehow. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jan 2018 : 03:58:49
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The reason why I am so crazy about the concept is that the whole Auril/Queen of Air & Darkness/The Raven Queen/Kiaransalee lore was all intertwined and confusing. Linking them all together was really reaching (them being 'aspects' of one shattered consciousness), but them being different people who just happened to get a hold of artifacts that had their OWN memories and personality, and you can see where the confusion could have come in, on a much more LOGICAL basis than I was able to put forth before. It's like what happened with Laeral and the CoH (which I ALSO think is related, but that's not pertinent right now). Some of the QoA&D's craziness was transferred to her regalia, and now those bits of her mind and memories have fused with others (so they are her, in a manner of speaking, but really, they aren't her).
Its also why they are all missing various bits of their memories (some were 'overwritten'), and the Raven Queen isn't even sure who she used to be (and that part's canon). The Black Diamond tainted Auril (what is her original NAME?!), and then her persona corrupted her Regalia, and those artifacts in-turn corrupted those other would-be goddesses. That's what they get for playing with someone else's toys.
As for Artus Cimber, he just got caught-up in all of this. Because he is man, he might be somewhat resistant to the memory overwrite (he certainly doesn't remember wearing that pretty dress to a party! lol) Or maybe it is just starting to affect him, after all these years. It could be the more you use an item, the more the personality-corruption happens, and since he tries to NOT use his item, he just hasn't quite succumbed to it... yet. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 25 Jan 2018 20:18:57 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jan 2018 : 12:50:55
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Fineva
I found that Artus Cimber is regarded as Chosen of Auril. He doesn't seem to be her worshipper or even close to one. Looking deeper he has the Ring of Winter. Could it be that the chosen power resides in items as well as beings? The ring is sentient after all.
Where is it said that the ring is sentient? I don't recall that one.
So Fineva aimed me in the right direction, on this one. Page 207 of Tomb of Annihilation:
"The Ring of Winter is sentient and tries to take control of any creature that wears it (see "Sentient Magic Items" in chapter 7 of the Dungeon Master's Guide). If it succeeds, the ring compels its wearer to cause undue harm to everyone and everything around it, in a cold-hearted attempt to incur the wrath of enemies and bring about the wearer's doom."
Of course, that is a blatant retcon. From page 112 of Volo's Guide to All Things Magical (which fails to even imply that the ring is sentient; ditto for the novel The Ring of Winter):
"However, the Ring serves only the powers of good - if used for evil ends, it twists its wielder's intent to bring down disaster."
Given the way they twisted Ras Nsi into something almost entirely different from what he'd been before, I shouldn't be surprised -- but it's still disappointing that they seem to simply not care about prior canon. |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 25 Jan 2018 12:51:30 |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11829 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jan 2018 : 13:26:46
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
The reason why I am so crazy about the concept is that the whole Auril/Queen of Air & Darkness/The Raven Queen/Kiaransalee lore was all intertwined and confusing. Linking them all together was really reaching (them being 'aspects' of one shattered consciousness0, but them being different people who just happened to get a hold of artifacts that had their OWN memories and personality, and you can see where the confusion could have come in, on a much more LOGICAL basis than I was bale to put forth before. Its like what happened with Laeral and the CoH (which I ALSO think is related, but that's not pertinent right now). Some of the QoA&D's craziness was transferred to her regalia, and now those bits of her mind and memories have fused with others (so they are her, in a manner of speaking, but really, they aren't her).
Its also why they are all missing various bits of their memories (some were 'overwritten'), and the Raven Queen isn't even sure who she used to be (and that part's canon). The Black Diamond tainted Auril (what is her original NAME?!), and then her persona corrupted her Regalia, and those artifacts in-turn corrupted those other would-be goddesses. That's what they get for playing with someone else's toys.
As for Artus Cimber, he just got caught-up in all of this. Because he is man, he might be somewhat resistant to the memory overwrite (he certainly doesn't remember wearing that pretty dress to a party! lol) Or maybe it is just starting to affect him, after all these years. It could be the more you use an item, the more the personality-corruption happens, and since he tries to NOT use his item, he just hasn't quite succumbed to it... yet.
So, in essence, the "Queen of Air & Darkness" original lore is of a throne of nothing but blackness from which a voice speaks, and no one knows its former name. Then there's "wondering" if Cegilune and the QoA&D are related.
In this instance, I would recommend that we lump together all of these entities in this stew. Furthermore, I'd change it from the Regalia of Winter , and instead call it something with a link to cold, dark winds.... maybe, and I'm not sold on this, but its the first thing coming to mind.... Regalia of Black Ice or Regalia of Air & Darkness . Then extend who all might be involved. By that I'm meaning the following
Auril
The Raven Queen
Kiaransalee (her item maybe can allow for memory alteration on a grand scale, but it also makes her vulnerable to such as well)
Cegilune
Ulutiu
Tarsellis Meunniduin (the snow elven god who was turned by Lolth against Corellon)... it should be noted here that this is before Lolth became Lolth, and in the story her original name was Megwandir (not Araushnee). Lore from dragon #155, and its not related specifically to FR.
Fenmarel Mestarine - Given that Fenmarel Mestarine also had a dalliance with Lolth, is also a god of outcast elves, and a loner, etc... it wouldn't take much to make me believe these two are the same entity with different names. However, it could also be that Lolth was an elven goddess who was manipulating many of the male gods of Faerie.
Which then leads to Lolth.
Shar definitely fits the mold of being corrupted by a piece
and this may be pushing it, but
Leira - I've always pictured her as a goddess of Faerie who has been turned (specifically of illusions and glamours).
So, perhaps some individuals are able to break free from the influence of the regalia (like Tarsellis and Fenmarel), and those gods make good ones for perhaps having a cloak or boots as the item in question. Ulutiu has the necklace. Auril has the black diamond. TRQ may have like a scepter or crown.
And similar to Sauron, perhaps LOOONNNNNGGGG ago there was an actual Queen of Air and Darkness. She was destroyed and only by having all her regalia rejoined can she fully reform. However, then comes the question, why is the ring of winter punishing evil behavior then.
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Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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The Masked Mage
Great Reader
USA
2420 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jan 2018 : 14:38:30
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| I'd dispute any argument that the ring of winter is sentient. No evidence of that if you ask me. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jan 2018 : 20:36:11
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While I would agre with you 100% here, and do not like the change, it is, unfrtunately, now canon.
The best we can do is figure out why the ring itself changed. The simplest thing is to say some other sentience entered the ring after the novel (the easiest path would be to say it was auril herself - perhaps the ring was separated from her before her 'fall', and now that she has somehow 'made contact with it', her corrupted personality has leeched-in).
And WHAT WAS AURIL'S NAME? I need to write that down! I haven't been able to find it, and I stupidly forgot to write it down the last time someone told me. It would have to be in something Brian James wrote in 4e - ZeromaruX? Anyone?
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
Tarsellis Meunniduin (the snow elven god who was turned by Lolth against Corellon)... it should be noted here that this is before Lolth became Lolth, and in the story her original name was Megwandir (not Araushnee). Lore from dragon #155, and its not related specifically to FR.
I think you may have quoted the wrong magazine article here - I know there was at least one other with 'Elven gods' (people seem to forget the Seldarine are a much bigger group than FR lore implies). What was that other issue?
Agreed about Cegliune - I've gone so far as to connect BOTH her and Baba Yaga together, and that perhaps Cegliune was the first 'Queen of Winter'. I think it may have skipped a generation - I have to go back and look what else i've written on the subject (I had two versions, slightly different). Lolth got pulled-in, as did Old Night.
And I'd keep that - the 'Winter' title for the Regalia, because that's the frost-Sprite title, and just sounds so much more FEY that way (connecting ti to seasons, rather than elements or conditions). |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 25 Jan 2018 20:36:43 |
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Speculation on deity "fragments" held by mortals
