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Zeromaru X
Great Reader
Colombia
2481 Posts |
 Posted - 08 Sep 2017 : 00:36:02
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So, I was reading Planescape's On Hallowed Ground (another book I borrowed from a friend), and found this
"Fact is, Ao's punishment may be part of the reason the Torilian deities are starting to look outside their crystal sphere and leaning toward the Outer Planes..."
On Hallowed Ground, p.168
The punishment they are talking about was the ToT. And we know that in 4e, there was a certain Bane (cof cof) being revered in another pantheon of the multiverse.
So, besides Bane, which other native deities from Toril we know that have became multi-spheric?
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Instead of seeking change, you prefer a void, merciless abyss of a world... |
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sfdragon
Great Reader
2285 Posts |
Posted - 08 Sep 2017 : 01:19:57
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<- ignores all things 4e....
Moradin, the seldarine all came from greyhawk...
Tyr came from earth
Tych came from earth....( think the realms might have been better off with tyche other than her twin daughters)
Poseidon came from earth( yes he is in the realms... a little known interloper)
could be wrong, think it is just Bane. |
why is being a wizard like being a drow? both are likely to find a dagger in the back from a rival or one looking to further his own goals, fame and power
My FR fan fiction
Magister's GAmbit
http://steelfiredragon.deviantart.com/gallery/33539234 |
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Zeromaru X
Great Reader
Colombia
2481 Posts |
Posted - 08 Sep 2017 : 02:48:34
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Well, in Core 4e (Nentir Vale/Dawn War world), was this Bane that "wasn't FR Bane", but a full god from the beginning of his existence (Dragon 372), but we later discover that this "beginning of his existence" was in fact a goblin myth, and that Bane was indeed a mortal who achieved godhood (Secrets of the Astral Sea). Then, in the 5e DMG, they outright said "the Bane from the Dawn War pantheon is Bane from FR".
At first, I saw this as a DM's tool (reusing gods from your campaign if you don't want to world-build), but then I found that statement in On Hallowed Ground, and all made sense at last.
As for the topic, there weren't such instances in 3.x or 2e? I remember that stuff of Shar being multi-spheric as well, in the Sundering novels. |
Instead of seeking change, you prefer a void, merciless abyss of a world... |
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sfdragon
Great Reader
2285 Posts |
Posted - 08 Sep 2017 : 03:02:53
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the 5e dmg note would invalidate lore previous editions that stated ascended.....
and I thought taht planescape lore was not FR lore.... or was that spelljammer.... either way, Im sure MArkustay or wooly will be along shortly to correct me on it. |
why is being a wizard like being a drow? both are likely to find a dagger in the back from a rival or one looking to further his own goals, fame and power
My FR fan fiction
Magister's GAmbit
http://steelfiredragon.deviantart.com/gallery/33539234 |
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sfdragon
Great Reader
2285 Posts |
Posted - 08 Sep 2017 : 03:03:43
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yeah which sundering novel?
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why is being a wizard like being a drow? both are likely to find a dagger in the back from a rival or one looking to further his own goals, fame and power
My FR fan fiction
Magister's GAmbit
http://steelfiredragon.deviantart.com/gallery/33539234 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36812 Posts |
Posted - 08 Sep 2017 : 03:27:12
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quote:
Originally posted by sfdragon
the 5e dmg note would invalidate lore previous editions that stated ascended.....
and I thought taht planescape lore was not FR lore.... or was that spelljammer.... either way, Im sure MArkustay or wooly will be along shortly to correct me on it.
At one time, Planescape and Spelljammer both joined Greyhawk, the Realms, Dragonlance, and just about anything else a DM wanted to add. Planescape covers all the planes, which includes the Prime Material plane -- which the other campaign settings were part of. And Spelljammer was the outer space connection between those worlds.
So it might be more proper to say that the Realms was within Planescape and Spelljammer, and thus its lore was part of theirs.
Admittedly, though, there wasn't nearly as much work done to integrate Spelljammer as there should have been. Spelljammer will always be my first love of TSR settings (hence my username), but -- like psionics -- it was a clumsy bolt-on that never smoothly fit the other settings.
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Zeromaru X
Great Reader
Colombia
2481 Posts |
Posted - 08 Sep 2017 : 03:33:03
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Dunno. The one of Shar. I guess it was the Sentinel or the Herald.
As for lore, On Hallowed Ground has a section that is specific Realmsian (and other for Greyhawk and Krynn). |
Instead of seeking change, you prefer a void, merciless abyss of a world... |
Edited by - Zeromaru X on 08 Sep 2017 03:34:17 |
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sfdragon
Great Reader
2285 Posts |
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Zeromaru X
Great Reader
Colombia
2481 Posts |
Posted - 08 Sep 2017 : 04:00:34
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| I guess is the Sentinel. |
Instead of seeking change, you prefer a void, merciless abyss of a world... |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 08 Sep 2017 : 06:42:13
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Weirdly, 2e's Planescape might be more canon now then it was at the time (which Wooly already described perfectly). Why I say this is that before we had 'different settings', but starting in 4e they (WotC) began to do this 'its all D&D' thing with the setting(s), and started blending it all together (in a haphazard way). Now we have 5e, and instead of 'the blend' they weren't quite pulling off (Nerath), we have the multiverse back the way it was (and even more interconnected than it was in 2e), but the mantra from 4e - "its all D&D now" stayed... and seems to be working.
And at its heart (Core) is the FR setting. FR has become the 'hub' that Ed had always meant it to be; the Prime Material's version of The Great Wheel. With the cross-world novel series (wasn't there TWO? and its nothing new - we've had setting-crossovers before), and all this 'leakage' from one setting to the next (and not just Gods - seems we have a lich infestation LOL), I would say that one setting is no longer a 'subset' of another - "its all just D&D now". Thus, whatever On Hallowed Ground says is probably accurate (in as much as something several editions out-of-date can be) in regards to the Realms, because the whole "who's canon is it anyway?" argument no longer holds water (with all this constant cross-pollination).
I would say 'Bane made the leap'. He probably put his plans into motion prior to the Tot (and being a pretty smart dude, I can see him hiding a couple of aspects in other spheres 'just to be on the safe side', before he put his plans into motion with the other two Dark Gods). Xvim was another 'fail safe'. This means 'Core Bane' and 'FR Bane' ARE both the same god, and NOT the same God, at the same time. Once a god detaches an aspect and sends it outside it's primary Crystal Sphere, it is subject to the whims (physics & belief systems {dogma}) of the new sphere and its inhabitants. Just like in the Elric novels, when Elric encountered Arioch outside of his home 'plane', the god looked and behaved a bit different, and although Elric was aware of it, the God was not. This all goes back to my theories that being a 'deity' (a being capable of sending and receiving power to and from mortals) is a double-edged sword. Once the connection is made, you get 'anchored' by the beliefs of those mortals (which also effects the physics of the Sphere).
In fact, I think the true power of Ao (and other Overgods) isn't that they have any real power over spheres and Gods at all. I think the best kept secret is that they really have total say over the mortals, and can effect their minds en masse (and we've seen Ao demonstrate this exact thing). Think about it - mortal belief is what is really controlling the gods and the cosmology, and Ao gets to 'nudge' their thinking. He doesn't like a god, he snaps his fingers and *POOF* they're gone. But what he really did was snap is fingers and make everyone forget that God ever existed. Or convince everyone that 'the god is dead' (when of course we know gods don't really die, EVER). Maybe thats all an Overgod is - the 'Overmind' (collective consciousness) of the mortals residing in the Sphere itself. Its only real power is to change the way people think.
Anyhow, definitely Bane and Shar, but I think both were working toward that end for some time prior to the Avatar Crisis (especially Shar - she's probably been 'going multispheric' since before Bane ascended). We have many others that are, but most of them are from other worlds, and not 'native'. I think the elemental lords are much more than they seem - I think the names we have for them are just FR-specific aspects. The probably have as many names as there are spheres.
I have some new/old theories I wanted to put in the cosmology thread, that I was thinking about today, but its super-late and I need some sleep. Maybe tomorrow if I remember it all. Nothing entirely new - just a more systematic way of looking at how 'the gods' work. Some of it comes from my current reading of Shadowbane: Eye of Justice (which centers around a tripartite deity). |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 08 Sep 2017 06:44:43 |
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sfdragon
Great Reader
2285 Posts |
Posted - 08 Sep 2017 : 08:22:06
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look forward to it....
I'd just like to get past the Sehanine is selune ,misery from the 4efiasco.... |
why is being a wizard like being a drow? both are likely to find a dagger in the back from a rival or one looking to further his own goals, fame and power
My FR fan fiction
Magister's GAmbit
http://steelfiredragon.deviantart.com/gallery/33539234 |
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Bladewind
Master of Realmslore
Netherlands
1280 Posts |
Posted - 08 Sep 2017 : 14:50:14
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The only truly native deities of Toril are Shar and Selune. Chauntea was created after Selune got wind of the creation of Life in other multiverses, after which she invited more help in shaping the world by calling on aspects of the primordials. After the first god of the sun was created she pissed of Shar immensely and from this struggle before time Mystra/Lurue sparked into being from Shar and Selunes' shredded bodies. During this War of Light and Darkness aid was called by both sides; Silvanus, the God of War and Oghma came to aid Selune and the Gods of Fury, Malar, Ghaunadaur, Piscaethces and Mask came to support the efforts of Shar or spread their own influence on the newly populated world. The first mortal Death called in creation of the Fugue plane upon which the first death god (Nerull or Jergal?) krept onto the scene.
The other deities were either invaded (much) later on or created a means for their race to invade into Abeir-Toril either during the War of Light and Darkness or during the Dawn Ages, such as Annam, Io/Asgorath, the Celestial Emperor (maybe he came later?), Horus-Re (definately a late comer), Gorellik (Pre-demonic Dawn Age Gnoll deity), Fate (she might be an ascended native immortal though), Maglubiyet, Sseth and Blibdoolpoolp.
So of the above almost all are multispheric to begin with, having divine influence over their domains on other worlds in the Multiverse. For example Silvanus is highly likely older than Shar and Selune, having created woodland life on worlds such as Blackmoor, Oerth, Mystara and Krynn. Oghma was already naming things in other parts of the Multiverse afore he came across the vibrant space Chauntea and Selune and the First Sun god were creating, and started naming them in kind. |
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Druidic Groves
Creature Feature: Giant Spiders |
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Mirtek
Senior Scribe
595 Posts |
Posted - 08 Sep 2017 : 19:46:53
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quote:
Originally posted by Zeromaru X
And we know that in 4e, there was a certain Bane (cof cof) being revered in another pantheon of the multiverse.
So, besides Bane, which other native deities from Toril we know that have became multi-spheric?
Actually the 4e deity was a different entity that just shared the same name.
However from the Finder Trilogy we know that Bane made some efforts to etablish a multispheric following.
From Stormlight we know that Bane is native to a place far different from Faerun |
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Zeromaru X
Great Reader
Colombia
2481 Posts |
Posted - 08 Sep 2017 : 22:47:56
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quote:
Originally posted by Mirtek
quote:
Originally posted by Zeromaru X
And we know that in 4e, there was a certain Bane (cof cof) being revered in another pantheon of the multiverse.
So, besides Bane, which other native deities from Toril we know that have became multi-spheric?
Actually the 4e deity was a different entity that just shared the same name.
However from the Finder Trilogy we know that Bane made some efforts to etablish a multispheric following.
From Stormlight we know that Bane is native to a place far different from Faerun
While Dragon 372 states that "Core Bane wasn't FR Bane", this is contradicted by later sources, such as Divine Power and, more importantly, Secrets of the Astral Sea. In this book, its specifically stated that the story of Achra (the story told in Dragon 372), was a goblin myth, and that Bane was originally a mortal ascended to godhood and later usurped Tuern, the former god of war.
Also, in the story published in Dragon 372, Achra, Tuern and Kord are brothers, but Kord is not considered Bane's brother in the myths about Khala—his mother—and the Raven Queen.
And there is the 5e DMG statement, of course. |
Instead of seeking change, you prefer a void, merciless abyss of a world... |
Edited by - Zeromaru X on 08 Sep 2017 22:55:00 |
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Zeromaru X
Great Reader
Colombia
2481 Posts |
Posted - 08 Sep 2017 : 22:56:54
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quote:
Originally posted by sfdragon
look forward to it....
I'd just like to get past the Sehanine is selune ,misery from the 4efiasco....
I guess that they explained that saying that some gods lost so much power in the Spellplague, that were absorbed by other gods, or preserved by fusing with gods of similar portfolios to survive. Then Ao restored those gods to their normal selves in the Second Sundering. |
Instead of seeking change, you prefer a void, merciless abyss of a world... |
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Zeromaru X
Great Reader
Colombia
2481 Posts |
Posted - 08 Sep 2017 : 23:02:29
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quote:
Originally posted by Bladewind
The only truly native deities of Toril are Shar and Selune. Chauntea was created after Selune got wind of the creation of Life in other multiverses, after which she invited more help in shaping the world by calling on aspects of the primordials. After the first god of the sun was created she pissed of Shar immensely and from this struggle before time Mystra/Lurue sparked into being from Shar and Selunes' shredded bodies. During this War of Light and Darkness aid was called by both sides; Silvanus, the God of War and Oghma came to aid Selune and the Gods of Fury, Malar, Ghaunadaur, Piscaethces and Mask came to support the efforts of Shar or spread their own influence on the newly populated world. The first mortal Death called in creation of the Fugue plane upon which the first death god (Nerull or Jergal?) krept onto the scene.
The other deities were either invaded (much) later on or created a means for their race to invade into Abeir-Toril either during the War of Light and Darkness or during the Dawn Ages, such as Annam, Io/Asgorath, the Celestial Emperor (maybe he came later?), Horus-Re (definately a late comer), Gorellik (Pre-demonic Dawn Age Gnoll deity), Fate (she might be an ascended native immortal though), Maglubiyet, Sseth and Blibdoolpoolp.
So of the above almost all are multispheric to begin with, having divine influence over their domains on other worlds in the Multiverse. For example Silvanus is highly likely older than Shar and Selune, having created woodland life on worlds such as Blackmoor, Oerth, Mystara and Krynn. Oghma was already naming things in other parts of the Multiverse afore he came across the vibrant space Chauntea and Selune and the First Sun god were creating, and started naming them in kind.
I love this backstory. Is Oghma a god in any other D&D pantheon? |
Instead of seeking change, you prefer a void, merciless abyss of a world... |
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Bladewind
Master of Realmslore
Netherlands
1280 Posts |
Posted - 09 Sep 2017 : 00:04:54
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Aye, there used to be a series of historical settings for 2nd edition AD&D. Oghma is described in Legends and Lore and the 'Celts ' [historical reference campaign sourcebook] as a heroic member of the Tuatha De Danann and probably previous Gallic diety Ogmios, a god of eloquence for the Gaulish celts.
The Tuatha De Danann were 'the tribe of the goddes Danu' a group of magically powerful heroes from a mainland gaulish tribe, who invaded the British Isle and conquered the island from the Fomorians. After they are defeated by a rival celtic tribe they retreated to the feywild, and ascended in Tir Na Nog (their feywild isle) because of the conditions of the tributes they had set up from the other tribes (ceremonial rituals and the beginnings of organised druidic traditions).
So Oghma and the Tuatha De Danann, such as Cernunnos/Silvanus, Goibhniu/Gond and Tarranis/Talos, hailed from D&D Celtic Earth, and probably came along Torils sphere very early on. |
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Druidic Groves
Creature Feature: Giant Spiders |
Edited by - Bladewind on 09 Sep 2017 00:19:34 |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11854 Posts |
Posted - 09 Sep 2017 : 17:10:08
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quote:
Originally posted by Zeromaru X
quote:
Originally posted by Bladewind
The only truly native deities of Toril are Shar and Selune. Chauntea was created after Selune got wind of the creation of Life in other multiverses, after which she invited more help in shaping the world by calling on aspects of the primordials. After the first god of the sun was created she pissed of Shar immensely and from this struggle before time Mystra/Lurue sparked into being from Shar and Selunes' shredded bodies. During this War of Light and Darkness aid was called by both sides; Silvanus, the God of War and Oghma came to aid Selune and the Gods of Fury, Malar, Ghaunadaur, Piscaethces and Mask came to support the efforts of Shar or spread their own influence on the newly populated world. The first mortal Death called in creation of the Fugue plane upon which the first death god (Nerull or Jergal?) krept onto the scene.
The other deities were either invaded (much) later on or created a means for their race to invade into Abeir-Toril either during the War of Light and Darkness or during the Dawn Ages, such as Annam, Io/Asgorath, the Celestial Emperor (maybe he came later?), Horus-Re (definately a late comer), Gorellik (Pre-demonic Dawn Age Gnoll deity), Fate (she might be an ascended native immortal though), Maglubiyet, Sseth and Blibdoolpoolp.
So of the above almost all are multispheric to begin with, having divine influence over their domains on other worlds in the Multiverse. For example Silvanus is highly likely older than Shar and Selune, having created woodland life on worlds such as Blackmoor, Oerth, Mystara and Krynn. Oghma was already naming things in other parts of the Multiverse afore he came across the vibrant space Chauntea and Selune and the First Sun god were creating, and started naming them in kind.
I love this backstory. Is Oghma a god in any other D&D pantheon?
Oghma, Loviatar, Tyr, Tyche, Mielikki, etc... all are from other pantheons. Its also arguable that Helm is Heimdahl under another name. Many believe Sune and Venus to be the same (and attribute the backwards spelling of Venus being Sunev). Lathander draws out fights as to whether he's his own entity, Apollo, Frey, or some other god. Of course, if you start down that road, it opens up a lot of paths. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36812 Posts |
Posted - 09 Sep 2017 : 18:33:26
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I would also posit that some interloper FR gods are from other, known pantheons, but are not those original deities. Like the Helm/Heimdall thing, for example. Perhaps Heimdall was trying to get a foothold in the Realms, and got his toe in the door. However, Realms-Heimdall found a different role than Earth-Heimdall. As Realms-Heimdall gained power in the Realms under the new role, he began emerging as his own distinct entity. Eventually, Realms-Heimdall was unique enough that he and Earth-Heimdall became two different individuals. Either Realms-Heimdall changed his name at that time, or he had already been working as Helm, but either way, Helm originated as but was no longer connected in any way to the original Heimdall.
At least, that's my spin on it. |
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Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 09 Sep 2017 18:34:06 |
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AuldDragon
Senior Scribe
USA
574 Posts |
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sfdragon
Great Reader
2285 Posts |
Posted - 10 Sep 2017 : 07:05:46
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I dont think any of the dark 3 came from Toril when they were still mortals.
though... they could have come from abeir..
lets face it Myrkul by far no mage of little power to begin with. it takes a good deal of pwer to planar travel
mielikki is finish iirc so is loviatar |
why is being a wizard like being a drow? both are likely to find a dagger in the back from a rival or one looking to further his own goals, fame and power
My FR fan fiction
Magister's GAmbit
http://steelfiredragon.deviantart.com/gallery/33539234 |
Edited by - sfdragon on 10 Sep 2017 07:06:52 |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11854 Posts |
Posted - 10 Sep 2017 : 12:00:26
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quote:
Originally posted by sfdragon
I dont think any of the dark 3 came from Toril when they were still mortals.
though... they could have come from abeir..
lets face it Myrkul by far no mage of little power to begin with. it takes a good deal of pwer to planar travel
mielikki is finish iirc so is loviatar
Actually somewhat canon lore from 4e hints at Myrkul coming from the area surrounding Raurin. Someone with his name is called a prince in a dungeon adventure. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 10 Sep 2017 : 18:19:51
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I think Bane - at least, FR-Bane - is a half-orc. Core Bane doesn't appear to be, but if ours is the original (and I don't see why he couldn't be... since in reality, HE IS), it could just be that he has taken on a 'more polished look' for other worlds.
Myrkul is definitely from FR - he was a Prince of Murghôm. (And I really don't want that messed with - I've found too many connections with The Taan region and a 'Black Diamond').
Bhaal may actually have been Baal, who absorbed some lesser FR deity (of murder) to get his toe-hold in The Realms. Thats how I tend to spin it. However, we know the least about him of the 'Dark Three', so you can say he is whatever you want.
I also believe there used to be a 'Fourth' member of their group - Kiputytto - whom they betrayed at some point. Thats pure homebrew, though: My love of 'cosmic balance' - you'd have the Fighter (Bane), the Wizard (Myrkul), the Rogue (Bhaal), and the Cleric (Kiputytto). Here's how I spin that - after Kiputytto lost her divinity in her battle with Talona, the Dark Three found her and used her connection to the gods to find their own way to divinity (and she, of course, wanted to become a God again). She would have been able to lead them to the tombs of the Lost Gods. Later, they either abandoned her, or locked her back away wherever Talona had put her (I'm thinking a tomb under on the Tunland Marshes). Although no longer a God, she would still be immortal - like a vampire denied sustenance, she would have become a sunken, hollow shell of herself, lying in a coma... until the ToT).
Once again,nearly all of that last part is HOMEBREW. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 10 Sep 2017 18:42:36 |
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CorellonsDevout
Great Reader
USA
2708 Posts |
Posted - 14 Sep 2017 : 03:09:47
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quote:
Originally posted by sfdragon
I'd just like to get past the Sehanine is selune ,misery from the 4efiasco....
Same. It's fine if the deities are multi-spheric (many of them probably are), but that is different than being aspects of each other in the same space (in this case, the Realms). I prefer each deity to be an individual, as opposed to Selune and Sehanine both being aspects of each other, or Hanali and Sune. |
Sweet water and light laughter |
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Bladewind
Master of Realmslore
Netherlands
1280 Posts |
Posted - 18 Sep 2017 : 16:34:18
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Aye, Sehanine is my personal favorite elven deity so I had to stew on a acceptable solution for the 'aspect of Selune' lore. I twisted that story into the temporary absorption of parts of Sehanine into both Selune and Angharradh while Torils nearest planar realms violently rearranged, reflecting the desperation of her waning clergy in seeking spiritual answers in both the wise elders of Selunes clergy on Faerun as the traditions of the allied clergies of Hanali and Aerdrie on Evermeet.
The latest sorrows of the elves on mainland Faerun (the near destruction of the tree of life and the ruination of Myth Drannor) has brought the clergy of Angharradh in decline again, and as the three branches start searching for a proper path they will grow further apart from one another again, reinstating old fashioned traditions and callings on past glories for inspiration of the next generations of elves.
Furthermore, I consider most deities to have multispheric influence, just to get rid of the headache it would cause if I remove the ability of divine classes to commune with their god. So deities that have followers that range the planes often have to reach out beyond Abeir-Torils divine ecology to empower their agents on the planes. A planeswalking cleric does get less and less casterlevels as he removes himself metaphysically farther away from his gods home domain though. The elemental planes interfere very little, but places such as the the 666th layer of the Abyss and beyond the deepest regions of the Shadowplane impose noticeable decreases in spell power.
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My campaign sketches
Druidic Groves
Creature Feature: Giant Spiders |
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LordofBones
Master of Realmslore
1543 Posts |
Posted - 02 Oct 2017 : 01:49:22
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Ignoring post 3.5e gobbledegook, multispheric deities encompass almost all nonhuman pantheons and the Mulhorandi and Untheric pantheons. Among the human pantheons, Bane is probably the Lawgiver of Ravenloft, Oghma is Celtic, Loviatar and Ilmater are Finnish, Tyr is Norse and Velsharoon is probably using Mellifleur's name as an alias and spreading his influence outside Realmspace.
And Lurue is Twilight Sparkle. |
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sfdragon
Great Reader
2285 Posts |
Posted - 02 Oct 2017 : 02:54:11
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| you for mielikki is finish |
why is being a wizard like being a drow? both are likely to find a dagger in the back from a rival or one looking to further his own goals, fame and power
My FR fan fiction
Magister's GAmbit
http://steelfiredragon.deviantart.com/gallery/33539234 |
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LordofBones
Master of Realmslore
1543 Posts |
Posted - 02 Oct 2017 : 04:33:01
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
I think Bane - at least, FR-Bane - is a half-orc. Core Bane doesn't appear to be, but if ours is the original (and I don't see why he couldn't be... since in reality, HE IS), it could just be that he has taken on a 'more polished look' for other worlds.
Bane being a half-orc slavemaster is entirely a work of 3.5e's artists. His 2e avatar was a human that turned demonic when angry or anticipating battle, and his actual religious art portrays him as a shadowy, robed figure with only his gauntlet figured prominently.
Iyachtu Xvim, on the other hand... |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 02 Oct 2017 : 05:38:14
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Planescape was a 2E product, largely based on 1E lore but expanded in different directions. Essentially abandoned in 3E. Entirely contradicted in 4E.
Lord Ao the overgod was also a 2E invention. Involved in later lore, but always in past tense. A past tense which was *rewritten* again and again to provide (or reformat) continuity of old lore within the needs of newer rulesets. The terms "retcon" and "Orwellian" are accurate, although they are also loaded with passions anchored to and fueled by edition preferences (2E, 3E, 4E, doesn't matter).
Zeromaru's question is quoted from a 2E source. It can be answered in a 2E context. It can't be answered in a 4E context because it involves 2E specifics which 4E retroactively altered. Looking back to the 2E-era from a 4E-vantage doesn't see what 2E rules/lore asserted in that time, it sees a 2E-era world reformatted to fit 4E rules/lore conceptions about the workings of the world, the gods, and the cosmos. Different games, different rules, different settings (past and present), even if they're still nominally the "same" Realms.
From the vantage of Planescape, the Realms (along with every other world or plane or dimension or setting anywhere in the cosmos, including the Realms) is a subset. But while Planescape explains that the planes are structured and eternal they obviously didn't transition intact into 3E and beyond. |
[/Ayrik] |
Edited by - Ayrik on 02 Oct 2017 06:00:22 |
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LordofBones
Master of Realmslore
1543 Posts |
Posted - 02 Oct 2017 : 08:37:12
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| Oh yeah, I forgot Kiputtyo. She's also Finnish. |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 03 Oct 2017 : 14:08:41
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A lot more of the Realms deities and pantheons than those named above came from Earth (or other worlds).
Especially when lumping in Realms-specific beings like Kezef or Dendar which appear to be close "aspects" of their counterparts from foreign mythologies.
But a god is a god, even by any other name, yes? And you can't teach an old god new tricks. |
[/Ayrik] |
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Native multi-spheric gods
