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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
6361 Posts

Posted - 10 Oct 2017 : 06:35:31

Ive already got ramman, ishtar, and gilgeam coming from this other pantheon which occupied chessenta and im calling akanu (it was led by anu).

I also have ishtar taking on some of the roles of inanna following the decimation and merger of both the akanic and untheric pantheons.

Im not really having the conflict between assuran and ramman begin as enmity, more as just a contest to see who was best. Ramman won and assuran was exiled from unther. In retaliation assuran destroys the former capital of akanu and creates the adder swamp. Now the two deities hate each other with a passion.

Im getting a vague recollection that hippartes was the host for assuran.

Im not actually doing any deities coming down to toril in my ToT. It was just fanciful tales and rumour plus a few important events. As assuran is a demigod he is still wandering chessenta and threskel in person. So he could lead the army himself or he could be assisting hippartes to find a bunch of his old magic items and create an army.

Ramman i have given him PTSD. So he is terrified of fighting now, but when he does fight he goes crazy. His church is all but destroyed and the only ones left jn the greenfields are junior priests and actually priests of anhur masquerading as priests of ramman.

Just not sure if the guy fighting hippartes will actually be ramman or not. Im leaning towards not

Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
6361 Posts

Posted - 11 Oct 2017 : 21:33:34

Finished the outline of the Church of Ish-Tarri

https://alternaterealmsblog.wordpress.com/the-church-of-ish-tarri/

Working on the Church of Ram-Manu now. I'm having it almost completely annihilated by Gil-Geamesq and his persecution. However it was not officially outlawed and Ram-Manu is still alive so the Church of Anhur has sent clergy who originally hail from Buldamar to masquerade as ensi of Ram-Manu that did not take part in the conflict with the rest of the church.
https://alternaterealmsblog.wordpress.com/the-church-of-ram-manu/

Also worked a bit on Shu-Ruppaki. I'm unsure on his origins at the moment so any thoughts are welcome.

Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
6361 Posts

Posted - 13 Oct 2017 : 16:05:09

Tried adding some pictures (let me know what you think). Worked out a vague structure for the armies of Unther. Added a new npc for the church of ramman and finished thr outline for the church of ramman.

Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
6361 Posts

Posted - 15 Oct 2017 : 15:19:53

So ishtar in Unther seems to have no role or effect on any of the events from what i can see.

Her priests do the day to day stuff and bring rain to the greenfields. Ishtar supposedly has an incarnation in shussel (even though the untheric gods dont have incarnations) that is never mentioned again. Ishtar handed her power to isis long ago and disappeared despite being present in 1356 to help out when gilgeam wrestles a dragon turtle and destroys a lot of the harbour.

Ishtar is not mentioned in any future event and everything after 1357 involving ishtar also mentions isis.

So im going to kill ishtar off. But not completely (i dislike removing things totally). Im having her chased out of firetrees by shuruppak and priests of gilgeam and they kill her and dump her body in an old grave pit way out in the greenfields.

Of course the gravepits house a weird fungus that eats bodies to grow fruiting bodies. Im thinkig that ishtars dying consciousness gets absorbed into this bit of fungus (long separated from that in firetrees) and is now a sentient fungus with magic powers that yearns for revenge and has an insatiable hunger for flesh and blood.

I might even have a cult or two worship her as a god of vengeance (not the poetic justice kind but the horrible brutal murdering kind).

https://alternaterealmsblog.wordpress.com/ish-tarri/

Edited by - Gary Dallison on 15 Oct 2017 21:08:46

Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
6361 Posts

Posted - 16 Oct 2017 : 09:44:31

Ramman next i think.

He also has no effect on the later realms so i dont think there is a problem if i do anything to him.

During ToT gilgeam was still gilgeam, and tiamat was still tiamat. Ishtar was a mess and ramman i dont know if it was actual ramman that fought hippartes or rammam in mortal form possessing a human.

Since im doing away with ToT as a god event i will have to go with a human claiming to be ramman incarnate (taking advantage of the hysteria sweeping the realms at the time). With a few of rammans artefacts i see no reason why he couldnt be perceived as a super godking general.

The only problem is that hippartes wanted to conquer a weakened unther and so he gathered up assuran/hoar's relics and marched south. Hippartes beats the ramman impersonator but cannot conquer messemprar.

Anhurs clergy are already insinuated into rammans church so when assuran returns he finds that the church of ramman is now the church of ramatep and they dont need the old wargod of unther.

As for ramman himself. Im thinking he had PTSD from the orcgate wars and this got worse with gilgeams religious persecution (pressurising ramman to do horrible thigs to please gilgeam).
In the end gilgeam imprisonsed ramman beneath unthalass and tortured him until he broke his mind (something he did before to create shuruppak). Gilgeam dies but rammam is still trapped beneath unthalass.

Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
15724 Posts

Posted - 16 Oct 2017 : 20:25:38

What if Ramman went to Kara-Tur and invented some really good soup?

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone

Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
6361 Posts

Posted - 16 Oct 2017 : 21:08:48

I don't get it, but then I don't eat a lot of soup

sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist

USA
11829 Posts

Posted - 16 Oct 2017 : 21:37:48

quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

What if Ramman went to Kara-Tur and invented some really good soup?

He would find out his real daddy is named Maruchan.... not Nanna-sin.... dun da dun!!!!

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas

Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
6361 Posts

Posted - 17 Oct 2017 : 12:45:35

Working on the enclave now.

For the moment I'm thinking that its headquarters are in a portal nexus (a demi plane where the portals from around the region connected to so you could travel around quicker if you had the right portal keys). That's why the enclave's headquarters is said to be all over the greenfields, because the portals from the nexus actually exit all over Unther (but more than a few no longer function).

History wise I'm thinking that the enclave was formed from one or two members of the Brotherhood of Black Flame (formed by the mages that Gilgeam persecuted out of paranoid fear) that stumbled across the portal when the Brotherhood was destroyed and they fled and accidentally discovered the portal nexus (the sources say some of them fled to the Planes so a demi-plane fits that piece).

Over time the organisation stopped fighting Unther and instead started working towards preserving Untheric magical lore. I'm also linking the Amethyst Sodality to the Enclave (enhancement for Lost Empires of Faerun by Ed Bonny). That group of formerly Imaskari mages infiltrated the Brotherhood of Black Flame hoping to use them to destroy Unther, it was one of the Sodality that possessed the portal key (unknowingly) and discovered the portal nexus. However the links between the Sodality and the Enclave have long vanished (the portals only function within a region (Unther), so the infiltrator could not get back to Ulgarth where the Amethyst Sodality survives as a secret society like the Knights of the Shield).

https://alternaterealmsblog.wordpress.com/the-enclave/

Edited by - Gary Dallison on 17 Oct 2017 20:52:19

sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist

USA
11829 Posts

Posted - 17 Oct 2017 : 22:49:40

quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal

Working on the enclave now.

For the moment I'm thinking that its headquarters are in a portal nexus (a demi plane where the portals from around the region connected to so you could travel around quicker if you had the right portal keys). That's why the enclave's headquarters is said to be all over the greenfields, because the portals from the nexus actually exit all over Unther (but more than a few no longer function).

History wise I'm thinking that the enclave was formed from one or two members of the Brotherhood of Black Flame (formed by the mages that Gilgeam persecuted out of paranoid fear) that stumbled across the portal when the Brotherhood was destroyed and they fled and accidentally discovered the portal nexus (the sources say some of them fled to the Planes so a demi-plane fits that piece).

Over time the organisation stopped fighting Unther and instead started working towards preserving Untheric magical lore. I'm also linking the Amethyst Sodality to the Enclave (enhancement for Lost Empires of Faerun by Ed Bonny). That group of formerly Imaskari mages infiltrated the Brotherhood of Black Flame hoping to use them to destroy Unther, it was one of the Sodality that possessed the portal key (unknowingly) and discovered the portal nexus. However the links between the Sodality and the Enclave have long vanished (the portals only function within a region (Unther), so the infiltrator could not get back to Ulgarth where the Amethyst Sodality survives as a secret society like the Knights of the Shield).

https://alternaterealmsblog.wordpress.com/the-enclave/

Speaking of "The Black Flame", we know that their lore goes on to form the red wizards. We also know that an arm of Kossuth's church is the black flame zealots. I wonder if these guys weren't from the wizard's reach that Unther populated and if they involved Raumathari as well as Mulans.

From Dragon 228, page 33
229 DR, Year of the Black Flame: A cabal of wizards calling themselves �The Black Flame� forms in Unther and destroys several armies sent by local rulers to slay them. Over the 20 summers that follow, they develop many important magics, but dwindle in numbers, destroyed by rivals, or lost in travels to other planes. They leave behind many powerful spells that later form much of the arsenal of the Red Wizards of Thay.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas

Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
6361 Posts

Posted - 18 Oct 2017 : 06:53:43

The order of the black flame is driven out of unther and into thay. Thay has a strong church of kossuth today and historically one of its neighbours summoned an avatar of kossuth.

The black flame zealots almost certainly originate in the thay area, and most likely involve the members of the order of the black flame. The regional and name coincidences are too strong to ignore.

Order of the black flame is destroyed. Some of its members flee north to thay. They set up cabals that we know today form part of the secret politics of thay. Some of those cabals discover from the nativea about kossuth and the church of kossuth in thay is born with the black flame zealots as a specialist arm. Whether the birth of either is in thay or the wizards reach probably doesnt matter.

Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
6361 Posts

Posted - 18 Oct 2017 : 07:31:10

It also seems likely that the former members of the black flame are in part responsible for the rebellion of the wizards reach being successful which in turn aided chessenta in its break up and break away into city states.

Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
6361 Posts

Posted - 19 Oct 2017 : 20:53:18

A brief skeleton for Red Haven (which I'm renaming to Nissel).

I've decided to make Nissel the gateway to Unther for outsiders. Its soo rough and lawless that Gil-Geamesq pretends it doesn't exist because past attempts to clear it out have failed and the God-King cannot fail.

All the illegal items you want can be found here. Secret organisations from across Faerun use Nissel as the starting point to get agents into Unther.

THe only problem with Nissel is that just about every inhabitant is a capable and bloodthirsty killer with a complete lack of morals (or is pretending to be that) so its not exactly a friendly place.

https://alternaterealmsblog.wordpress.com/nissel-red-haven/

Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
15724 Posts

Posted - 23 Oct 2017 : 06:58:32

I still liked the Firetrees better over where that other forest was in 1e/2e, that we lost (The Maerchwood). Its in the same general area, and we'd have a good reason for gaining it back now (I'm thinking we actually lost it during the Tot, not the Spellplague - there was some 'terrain swapping' going on with Abeir during that as well, according to BRJ).

People forget that we have a great McGuffin in the setting if we felt like sticking something on Abeir another 30 years in the past, for some reason. Anything that disappeared between 2e and 3e may have gone over (and we lost quite a lot of terrain).

quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal

I don't get it, but then I don't eat a lot of soup

Well, you don't really have to be a Naruto fan to get that one. Every college student (or other person on a broke-ass budget) knows about Ramen.

Interesting trivia: Did you know the Japanese call it 'Ramen', because they can't pronounce the Chinese name for it - Lomein? True fact!

Now back to our regularly scheduled thread...

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone

Edited by - Markustay on 23 Oct 2017 07:03:14

Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
6361 Posts

Posted - 23 Oct 2017 : 10:20:18

Added some a new npc Mangred "the ram" as an npc and captain of The Alamber Ram, a pirate ship that operates out of nissel.

Mangred is a contact the pcs can use in town, hes a pirate but hes a fair pirate, he will probably transport the pcs for a price without dumping their bodies in the sea (probably), and he hates gilgeams rule in unther

Also added a rather well equipped drinking, whoring, and gambling den in nissel called the Sea Hag (the escorts are called "the hags". Its meant to be a meeting place for PCs, but its also a front for a Harper friend who uses the business to get information out of its clients (get them drunk or in bed) and the most useful patrons suddenly find themselves with massive debts in the gambling dens that they can pay off with information or favours.

Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
6361 Posts

Posted - 23 Oct 2017 : 21:42:02

Expanded a bit on the Methwood and the elven presence in the Old Empires before Imaskar. It's detailed on the Unther page

https://alternaterealmsblog.wordpress.com/unther/

Created a new elven realm (tentatively named Enyllstaar) which is documented as being home to dark skinned elves.

Detailed a bit about Myth Vaelorthae (City of Beautiful Blades - Named for the enormously tall trees that stood out of the forest canopy like green swords).
Metos sits atop this city (which was really just a grove of huge trees). The Imaskari flattened the grove and built their fortress atop it.

Metos was abandoned when Imaskar fell but the turami slaves soon moved back in after the Mulan drove them out of Unther and Akanu. These turami were joined by the remaining elves of Enyllstaar who fled the destruction of the forest by Unther and Akanu.

The ancient magics of Myth Vaelorthae allowed animals and plants to reach their full potential no matter the limitations (such as poor diet). This magic has been corrupted with age and the tinkering of TiaMa'at (who found it around 200 DR and lived here until 1018 DR when the dracorage drove her insane), it now is causing massive overgrowth of vegetation and animals and the merging of creatures to create weird hybrids creatures.

Skuuthosiin lives in Metos, ruling over tribes of feral turami half elves. He only has access to a few extra dimensional spaces of Metos (each space requires a different key) and so there is still much treasure left in the ruins.

There are still other elves of Enyllstaar left in the Methwood. They hate all outsiders and will hide first and attack if pressed. They war with Skuuthosiin and his servants constantly trying to regain the ability to regrow their elder groves (Myth Vaelorthae was mobile, they could replant the groves with acorns from the original trees but they lost this ability over the millennia).

Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
6361 Posts

Posted - 24 Oct 2017 : 21:30:31

Wondering how a sage from an insular place like Unther knows about Myth Unnohyr in Calimshan.

Vulmikka of Unther, known as �The Dark Sister� is one of only two sages that knows anything about Myth Unnohyr.

Myth Unnohyr is a mythal city of Keltormir (a nation of elves fell during the Crown Wars), while Unther did not even exist back then and has almost no connection to the outside world.

My first thoughts are that the elves of Unther that I just created (Enyllstaar) and Keltormir had some portal connection somehow. I'm kind of thinking that Enyllstaar is a nation filled with half drow, half wild elves. It was an ally of Illythiir, but not a willing one (it initially sided with Illythiir but was horrified when the forest burning and demon and devil influences became apparent).

Illythiir created a portal network as its armies travelled north and east towards the Vyshaan Empire, so that it could resupply its forces and reinforce the occupation of its conquered territories (Maybe call it the Path of Burning Leaves).

Rather than have the portal network lead right back to Illythiir however, it had the terminus end in Enyllstaar so that should anyone compromise the portal network they would not be able to reach the Illythiir homeland through it.

So the ruins of Myth Unnohyr (in the north of the forest of Mir, where a major battle of the crown wars took place (page 13 of GHOTR) was the site of one of these portals and Vulmikka discovered it.

The question still remains who is Vulmikka. With a title like "The Dark Sister" I'm tempted to make her a follower of TiaMa'at who is known as "The Dark Lady", maybe a dragon type creature.

And I added more information to Nissel, including one of the Grey Chimera Inns and the owner of the Sea Hag (her name is a clue to her origin that I may expand upon later).

https://alternaterealmsblog.wordpress.com/nissel-red-haven/

Martinsky
Acolyte

Canada
34 Posts

Posted - 25 Oct 2017 : 01:49:20

Half-drow I like this one! I was about to suggest you to add something related to drow.

Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
6361 Posts

Posted - 25 Oct 2017 : 08:29:49

Well at the moment the half drow are only their to give the pcs something to do, literally.

Half drow dont really fit in unther, nor do any demihumans really, the confusing canon hints that they are enslaved normally but it doesnt mention what happens to foreign visitors but i have foreign demihumans enslaved immediately (or attempted enslavement).

However there is a criminal organisation of drow that has established a faux cult that supposedly worships a combination of shar and lolth but is in reality a drug peddler. That i chose to base in nissel but will definitely have half drow operatives in unthalass and messemprar as the dusky skinned half drow can pass for mulan in poor light.

Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
6361 Posts

Posted - 25 Oct 2017 : 13:25:43

Noticed some mention of the desert of desolation module in regards to the old empires.

Ive had a quick read through and some thoughts on how to realmsify it.

The statement of everything occuring 1000 years ago isnt far enough back so im going to assume 1000 years actually meant thousands of years ago.

Also no djinn or efreet, thats too zakhara or calimshan. I think efreet and djinn are just a catch all term for any malevolent or benevolent highly magical being.

Also after reading scott bennie's pdf on the old empires which mentions a big bad imaskanoloth (a massive skriaxit) then ive decided to link somethings together.

So the mulan have a massive fight with the senior imaskari artificers in the purple palace. The emperor yuvaraj is killed and so the artificers unleash a magic so powerful it hadnt been used since before the mulan were kidnapped (it accidentally caused the plague that turns people to dust devils).

So the purple palace and the entire capital of imaskar is consumed into a gigantic, self sustaining dust devil called the imaskanoloth. This huge whirlwind remains in place and churns up the whole capital into dust.

The mulan move south to Raurin and establish rule over the raurin people (the imask tribe of the raurin people had the north of this region). The Raurin Empire doesnt last more than a century due to rebellions and fear that the Imaskanoloth is coming for them.

The mulan people move into the great vale and abandon raurin. The raurin people survive and rule themselves for a time but they have inherited a number of mulan customs and gods (which is why Anu and Re have temples here).

Eventually the Raurin people are pushed further and further south and east into durpar.

Martek is not a good guy. He is actually an old imaskari artificer who sacrifices himself to keep the imaskanoloth trapped in raurin (the dustwall being as far as it could go), but at the same time lays the foundation to become a demilich (the star gems are each one of his many phylacteries).

And the efreet khasilieth (or whatever he is called) was the most powerful artificer performing the ritual that created the imaskanoloth, he is the primary intelligence driving the creature.

The mulhorandi have been sacrificing their incarnations to keep the imaskanoloth at bay (it recedes when it consumes one so the mulhorandi feed it a new one every few centuries, but each incarnation consumed makes it larger and soon the dustwall will no longer stop it).

The imaskanoloth consumed all life in the raurin region, turning it into a desert, but it took a long time.

Marteks actual plan was to keep the imaskanoloth contained until it was really powerful while laying a false trail that the star gems would bring him back to destroy the creature. What will actually happen when martek returns is that the bindings keeping the imaskanoloth in raurin will end and the creature will be free to destroy the mulan (and they will not be powerful enough to stop it).

Or at least thats my idea at the moment.

Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
6361 Posts

Posted - 30 Oct 2017 : 20:45:39

Got a beginning of a page about Raurin

So far just working in some lore from Encyclopedia Magica and from Elminster's Ecologies with the Desert of Desolation module.

I'm pretty much decided that Martek is actually evil but his legend has been confused and he is actually somebody very ancient that has an interest in Imaskar and its artefacts (as a clue - Solon)

https://alternaterealmsblog.wordpress.com/raurin/

Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
15724 Posts

Posted - 31 Oct 2017 : 07:00:12

I was rewriting a bunch of that myself awhile back.

I think I had it where I said Martek was 'depowered' due to the war with the Pharonic gods, and thats why he couldn't just resolve the problem the first time (because there is a HUGE plothole there - if his plan was so good, why didn't he just do it, instead of postponing it a thousand years, give or take? it makes no sense).

Except the war with the Pharonics would have happened too far back in the timeline, so he must have gotten into a battle with someone else (Nezram?), which left him severely weakened, and he was forced to put himself in stasis until her recovered. But even that starts to fall apart if you look at it too long. He had enough power to summon the djinn, and then he sets up this big elaborate plot to get rid of his enemy far in the future.

I think it was at that point I just sort of said, "I'll get back to this".

I like the idea it was his plan to capture the Efreet all along - that gives us a reason for the delay (he wasn't prepared enough to control it - he needed a different type of pentagram/whatever, and he was only able to banish it). Then he had to wait the usual thousand years before such a creature was allowed to return (I think its like a century for normal fiends, but if this thing was an elemental Lord - like a Sultan of the Efreet, banishing could last longer).

And then Martek binds the Djinn and the Efreet in the conjoined crystals (now just a giant crystal), and he has to stay in it himself, guarding them, for all time... as a lich... The Raurindi Crystal!

Where have I heard all this before...

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone

Edited by - Markustay on 31 Oct 2017 07:03:03

Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
6361 Posts

Posted - 31 Oct 2017 : 08:03:38

Yes the similarities between mulhorand and calimshan are very difficult to avoid. Thats why i ditched the idea of an efreet and a djinn and instead made the big bad the skriaxit (but a super version of the skriaxit).

I figure that ambuch ah i mean martek would want access to all the stuff of imaskar and its easier to do that with all the imaskari survivor states dead.

Im changing my mind now and dont think martek planned to lure the skriaxit and trap it, instead i think he was just making the tomb of amun re to become a gigantic magical repository and somekind of imaskari artefact. The concentration of magic lured the skriaxit towards martek and that interrupted the ritual binding martek to the star gems (making him a licj) and trapping the skriaxit within a 50 mile radius of the gems (distance im not decided on as i do not know how large the raurin basin is).

I am also tyinh in another major character from murghom who would also have wanted the magic of imaskar and ancient super powered beings, its based on a myth in elminsters ecologies and the peryton. I figure that time and culture corrupted the myth so that the names of the gods involved were used incorrectly. It would be a god of evil corrupted the khala, then the gods of sun, justice, magic, and nature cursed the khala into a twisted form.

After all our own legends about noahs ark are corrupted way beyond the event of the strait of gibraltar collapsing and flooding the meditteranean basin so the same thing should happen with FR myths.

Ive also got pharoahs way after the collapse of imaskar. One source states there was a proto unther and proto mulhorand in raurin so that likely lasted a century or two before the mulan abandoned raurin. Then we have the rise of small kingdoms that would have styled themselves after the mulan so likely had pharoahs as well. Im keeping these little kingdoms way up until -1200 DR when martek destroys it all (he was hired by amun re).

Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
6361 Posts

Posted - 31 Oct 2017 : 17:45:53

Just narrowed down the date of ambuchar devayam arriving in solon and its about 100 dr after a few hints in the horde boxed set.

I wonder why he hung around solon for a millennia. What was he looking for (although it was the one time capital of upper imaskar) and it says he was searching for imaskari artefacts. Im gonna put him down as looking to secure the star gems.

Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
15724 Posts

Posted - 01 Nov 2017 : 00:31:15

Nah.

He was looking for the Black Diamond. He needed it to create Horcrux (multiple phylactories), but since he couldn't find it, he instead used the Five Ebon Weapons of Imaskar, and split a piece of his soul into each one of those.

Of course, if you read the (Horde) modules, there were only four Ebon Weapons. The adventurers (and Shih) never knew there was fifth Black Weapon, so Tan Chin survived {Duh duh duh!!!}

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone

Edited by - Markustay on 01 Nov 2017 00:31:49

Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
15724 Posts

Posted - 01 Nov 2017 : 00:43:02

quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal

I figure that ambuch ah i mean martek would want access to all the stuff of imaskar and its easier to do that with all the imaskari survivor states dead.

I just caught this...

Tan Chin as Martek? That has possibilities... I never even considered that. It does give us an excuse for burying him (Tan Chin) for a millennia.

And, of course, Martek would have been a real person, just as Ambuchar Devyam was, and also that governor down in Tempat Larang (I can't be bothered looking that up*, but it was in Ronin Challenge). His particular lichy nature lends itself nicely to this kind of scenario... he could have been anybody!

Him... what if he isn't even Tan Chin? What if 'Tan Chin' himself was an alias adopted by a Sarrukh? It wouldn't be the first time something like that's happened.

Could even be the SAME Sarrukh.

'Tan Chin' in Devic = 'Earth Sage'.

*EDIT:
Tsao Choo - 'an early Emperor of Shou-Loung', but given his story with Meilan is identical to that with Tan Chin, its definitely the same guy. He wasn't the governor as I thought - that was a different guy (but I think I at some point hypothesized he had used Governor Chunbi as well). Now that I'm re-reading the material, it might make more sense to make him the Wu Jen Kimasogi (he may have been a student/disciple of Tan Chin's - I'm sure a brilliant, paranoid dude like Tan chin would have personal agents as 'advisors' next to all his governors).

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone

Edited by - Markustay on 01 Nov 2017 02:04:28

Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
6361 Posts

Posted - 01 Nov 2017 : 09:21:09

Well ive finished a writeup of the flail of the desert kings and the circlet of the adder.

Ive linked then to martek when his ritual went all wrong and it warped these items. The rod now converts anyone it touches into "star spawn" which are then under the controller of the wielder of the flail but martek has ultimate control. These star spawn are slowly drained of life to feed martek, gradually becoming more and more ethereal until they disappear altogether. Star spawn have star shapes in their forehead and the flail lies somewhere under unthalass.

The circlet of the adder was used in raurin as one of the twin regalia of the raurin empire. Created by the godkings that would go on to form mulhorand, it was supposed to make the wearer loyal to the godkings but it favoured set above all. Its transformation during marteks ritual added other unknown powers to it but set recovered it and altered it again. It now allows set to create divine minions of set just by touching them.

In considering making martek/ambuchar be really the secret identity of madryoch. He is trapped in the plane of shadow and possesses people much like a ghost does (the shadow plane also being a coexistent transitive plane like the ethereal). He possessed martek and cast that ritual but it went horribly wrong and now he is a demilich with his soul split between thw star gems.
Ambuchar Devayam got hold of a star gem and became the new body for madryoch. Ambuchar now seeks to gather the other star gems together so he can destroy them in a new planar trap artefact he has cobbled together out of the remains of the imaskari planar barrier (it will trap his soul once released from the star gems so he can put it in ambuchar or anothers body and come back to life).
Ambuchar has laid a false trail for people to gather the star gems from where they have been kept, then once all 4 are gathered he will transport the carriers to him so he can destroy them and the gems.
Ambuchar cant go into raurin because he imaskaroloth is attracted to concentrations of magic and he is a big one.

The imaskaroloth is a massive whirlwind of destruction created by the last artificers in inuprath as the mulan were winning. The artificers intelligence is trapped in the whirlwind and they control it, but khasilieth (the head of the ritual) is the most dominent. The imaskaroloth strips anything it touches to dust in time (minutes for flesh, hours for sandstone). It drains magic although cannot destroy permanent magic fields.
The imaskaroloth is tied to a 500 mile radius (however big raurin is) of the tomb of amun re. It wants to be free and knows that destroying the star gems is the key to that so it is using efreeti allies to gather the gems to him.

Set is the last major player in raurin. He wants the imaskaroloth freed to destroy mulhorand so that he can save it and rebuild it in his image. He is one of the few beings to have commmunicated with the imaskaroloth and came up with the plan where it approaches mulhorands border every century so the godkings can send an incarnation to feed it so it will depart.

Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
6361 Posts

Posted - 01 Nov 2017 : 20:51:04

So the Imaskari construct twin portals to kidnap humans from other worlds and enslave them.

I had always assumed that there was one portal for each of the peoples that would be the Mulan (the Mulhorandi and the Untheric people). But then of course it came to me that the proto Chessentans - which I call Akanic - also were kidnapped.

So now I'm thinking that perhaps these two portals were not in the same place.

During the time that the portals were built, Imaskar was not being ruled from Inupras (that was in ruins) it was actually split into Upper and Lower Imaskar with Upper Imaskar ruled from Thakos (now Saikhoi in Ra-Khati) and Lower Imaskar ruled from Solon. What if the twin portals were one near Solon and one near Thakos and they brought totally different groups of people to Faerun (the Mulan and the Shou perhaps).

Furthermore Tan-Chin was seemingly a good person according to Shou history and then suddenly assassinated the emperor and became super evil. That was all after a visit to Thakos. I wonder what he could have found that might turn him evil (a malfunctioning portal that released an evil possessing spirit from its millennia long imprisonment)

Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
6361 Posts

Posted - 01 Nov 2017 : 21:21:41

Detailed The Black Sword. Made it from the error where Imaskar was split (I'm assuming it had two rulers and one of them would not have been happy with the other attempting to reunite the two halves by taking Inupras).

Named it Blaek's Sword after Empheroar Blaek of Upper Imaskar.

Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
15724 Posts

Posted - 01 Nov 2017 : 21:26:25

You need to read the history of Meilan - some of it is in Black Courser in section IV. This same story is repeated in Ronin Challenge (its in the Library of Perpustakan, except they are calling him Tsao Choo (which is probably his son or some other descendant he possessed as well*). he was a 'good' emperor (depending on your perspective, of course) - he was an Imaskari artificer who 'saved' the eastern half of the empire after Imaskar fell, and created Anok-Imaskar, which is also referred to as "The First Empire of Shou" (making Tan Chin the first emperor of Shou-Lung, which fits all the other lore). He may have taken on the name/persona/body of Tsao Choo upon his return to imaskar**. Anyhow, 'Immortal Meilan' was actually a succubus (and eastern variety), and seduced him and turned him to evil (I am assuming through paranoia... after all, his last empire was 'taken down from within'). The weird thing is, in some stories she is not depicted as evil, but since Black Courser is supposed to be the TRUE history, one can assume that much of the stories from that early time period were later altered (which is canon - the histories are changed each time an emperor takes the throne, to cast him in the best possible light). That, BTW, is a rather ingenious way of fudging inconsistent lore.

*My thoughts here is that he wouldn't want folks to know he was the same person. At least, not at first, because then they may question how he is so long-lived 9and also how he avoided getting killed by the Goldy Manifestations of Mulan). I think he was gone for some time (my other theories regarding an ancient connection between GH and FR) - probably centuries. I think he was involved in Bhaluin (I've spun it where Hilathar started the college there, but it could have been tan Chin just as well), so he may have been there when the Raurin got hit with the divine Nuke. I'm considering having a meteor ('tear') sam into the Raurin, maybe called down by Re or someone else, maybe even one of the Imaskari in desperation. Maybe Pandorym did that ("Please help us! Do whatever it takes, but kill those Gods!") Anyhow, not wanting be associated with all that, and probably wanting to keep a 'low profile' in regards to being a former Imaskari Archsorcerer, he became Tsao Choo (and then later adjusted the histories to include himself again).

**There were three empires of Shou, and the first one - Anok-Imaskar - was ruled by Tan Chin, but all traces and connections back to old Imaskar have been 'erased' in K-T's histories. This empire would have included the former Kao Empire lands, which was just the western portion of Kara-Tur, all the way down to the southern coast (Sea of Segarra - that part of the history can only be found in Ronin Challenge). Each successive empire moved the border further east, until it reached that coast (Celestial Sea), and all the indigenous Haltai (FR Asians) and Ang (FR 'Indians') had been conquered.

There were also three major periods/empires in Imaskari history, making for a total of five 'empires' (one gets included twice, so there are only five, not six, unless we include my theoretical Kao Empire, which has canon history in The Horde sources). I also have to wonder if there might have actually been a 'good' Meilan - a human woman who was possessed (or replaced) by the succubus.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone

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