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Originally posted by dazzlerdal

Also it would seem that at its height Unther had cities in the eastern shaar, now all ruined and its roads vanished. I wonder if peleveran could have been owned by Unther once (maybe they built it, maybe they conquered it from the dwarves or found it empty - gargauth's legend where he destroyed a dwarven city would be ironic if he ended up imprisoned beneath it.

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Pg.125, FRCS Revised (2e)
Unther: As with Mulhorand, the other living "dead kingdom", the wreckage of Unther's empire can be seen throughout Chessenta and the Eastern Shaar. It left more temples than wonders, some of which have been turned to other tasks today.

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Pg.128, FRCS Revised (2)
The Shaar is a most effective barrier between the Heartlands and the Shining South, effective through its own emptiness. The Shaar is dominated by miles upon miles of thick grassland, and peopled only by nomads, herdsmen, and raiders. Yet, strange temples and abandoned shrines to lost gods dot the lands, and some of the wanderers encountered wield great mystical powers.

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Originally posted by Markustay

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Originally posted by dazzlerdal

Also it would seem that at its height Unther had cities in the eastern shaar, now all ruined and its roads vanished. I wonder if peleveran could have been owned by Unther once (maybe they built it, maybe they conquered it from the dwarves or found it empty - gargauth's legend where he destroyed a dwarven city would be ironic if he ended up imprisoned beneath it.

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Its canon, to some degree...

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Pg.125, FRCS Revised (2e)
Unther: As with Mulhorand, the other living "dead kingdom", the wreckage of Unther's empire can be seen throughout Chessenta and the Eastern Shaar. It left more temples than wonders, some of which have been turned to other tasks today.

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Coupled with...

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Pg.128, FRCS Revised (2)
The Shaar is a most effective barrier between the Heartlands and the Shining South, effective through its own emptiness. The Shaar is dominated by miles upon miles of thick grassland, and peopled only by nomads, herdsmen, and raiders. Yet, strange temples and abandoned shrines to lost gods dot the lands, and some of the wanderers encountered wield great mystical powers.

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*I didn't feel like looking for a 3rd (and possibly 4th) quote, but it is also canon that the dwarves (of the Shaar) HATE Unther - they have had lots of hostile interaction in the Shaar (which is also why I believe the Dwarves had at one time had a MUCH more extensive surface-presence). For Unther's part, dwarves are still unwelcome there (so are elves, for different reasons). In fact, the whole of the Old Empires seem to very much dislike demihumans. Humanoids, however, they don't seem to have a problem with. Go figure.


I just happened to be reading those sections earlier today. Its been so long since I've read through any of it I've forgotten quite a lot. I was actually trying to find out as much info as I could on Akanul and the Akanamere. Unther definitely had 'holdings' in the Shar, and Calimshan (which is just as old as those empires) was also pushing into the Shar from the other direction (I believe they dominated the Channath Vale {Elsir Vale} region for a time). Not sure if some of that was in the Calimshan or LoI books (a boxed set and two separate books), or if some of it was in Serpent Kingdoms, or both. In the Unther/Old Empires thread someone was doing back on the WotC boards, they assumed there was a Calimshan/Unther war at some point, but it was more of a 'cold war' with only a few actual battles (Unther was waning when Calimshan was waxing IIRC, although both are 'cyclic').

Its also interesting to note that if you wanted to consider any of the Elsir Vale material canon for the Channath Vale, there is a preponderance of half-dragons in the region. And not just human halves - all sorts, like elves, dwarves, goblinoids, I think even a half-lizardman one, IIRC. the 'Fane of Tiamat' would be in the Wyrmbones there (renamed the Wyrmsmoke Mtns. in the EV material). Tiamat seems to have a fondness for The Shaar... which is funny, because Shar has a connection to The Shaar (I doubt its coincidence, but I also am not saying they are the same being - more likely Tiamat is trying to tap-into or find whatever it is Shar lost down there... herself?)

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Originally posted by Markustay

Also, re-reading what I wrote, one thing from that other person's "Unther Musings" was that Calimshan actually acquired their 'chariot tech' from their hostilities with Unther. FR doesn't seem predisposed to chariots, but Calimshan weirdly has them, and the one group that seems to like them and use them a lot are the Old Empires, so it makes some sense that that was something that came out of the 'Shaar Wars'...

Shaar Wars

No... don't go there... must resist...

Manshoon holding a local princess by the throat: "You are part of the rebel alliance and a traitor! Take her away!"

Sorry Couldn't help myself...




EDIT:
Even though I'm NOT a SW fan {Gasp!}, I think a region of FR/Toril needs some Jawas and Sand People. The only place those huge rolling things would make sense, though, would be in the Taan region (Raumathari juggernaughts that some dwarves fixed-up and keep running). Tuskan Raiders are easy - just desert orcs (or hobgoblins).

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Originally posted by Markustay

We really NEED to write-up a Lhesper Cantina now.

That guy who said, "My friend doesn't like you... I don't like you either" even looked like a half-orc.

Watch out for those spice-runners (smugglers), I hear they shoot first. One of them even hangs out with an Alaghi.

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Originally posted by dazzlerdal

Furifax was once one of Gilgeams attendants (and presumably a male courtesan), i doubt he would be ugly as a half orc, most likely he would be a near perfect male specimen

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Originally posted by Markustay

Red Hand of Doom was the 3e-era module dealing with that region (Elsir Vale, which is Channath Vale in FR). Pt.5 (the finale) actually takes place IN The Fane of Tiamat.

Scales of War was the 4e AP, which ran through Dungeon #156 - #175. I am not sure how much is there on The Fane - the final battle in that AP is in her Godly Domain (IIRC). I'd have to go through the issues individually to see if any cover the Fane.

Funny - the 3e adventure is very low-key, despite being a war - the PCs don't have to be uber powerful, they just have to be one step ahead of their enemies (everything is on a time-table in that adventure - NO SIDE QUESTS!) 'Normal' people can pull it off.

The 4e one sends you to battle gods, and you even hangout with Bahamut, and you need to be level 30 just to go to Tiamat's realm (where you presumably kick her arse). To be fair, it is an AP, though, so it takes you through all the levels.

I just can't help noticing the different approaches between the two editions.

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Originally posted by Markustay

And it just so happens to look IDENTICAL to Channath Vale in the Forgotten Realms (3e map)?

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